Mansell-Adelaide 1986

One of the U.K's terrestrial t.v. channels is running a '100 Great Sporting Moments' program over 2 Saturdays, starting last week and ending, I gather, next week.

I did not watch it last Saturday but I caught just 2 minutes while 'browsing'. Blow me if I didn't land on the Mansell-exploding tyre at Adelaide, which was considered to be such a 'great moment'.

Something came up in the interview with 'his highness' that I have never heard mentioned before and which I had never thought about either.

Apologies to those for whom this is old news, but King Nige said that had he steered it into the wall and flopped over (now there's a novelty!) they would have stopped the race, declared the results from the lap before and...... guess who would have been champion????

So he is obviously not as quick a thinker as he thought he was. I bet Ayrton and Michael would have been onto that one in a flash.

What is the general view of this scenario?

I've heard this before Barry, and he's absolutely right!

Well, it was pre-pace car, so yes he was correct (and I was watching this too and it's the first time I've seen him say it)

...but they may have stopped the race, seen if he was alright*, then restarted it again.


*
Marshall: "Nigel, Nigel, can you hear me, are you okay?"
Mansell: "Yes! World Champion! Er, I mean... owwww, the pain, the pain"

wouldn't have re-started the race becuase it was over two-thirds distance.

I don't think he had enough control over the car to do that - IIRC he was already braking hard when the tyre blew and his forward impetus just carried him straight on into the run-off area with only one front wheel on the road. He had enough trouble keeping it away from the wall without deliberately turning into it and he'd have had to turn through at least 90 degrees one way or the other to block the road. Unless he'd hit the wall VERY hard head on I don't think they'd have stopped the race and I also seem to recall that Adelaide was particularly well-endowed with rescue cranes.

Our Noige trying to rewrite history perhaps?

Our Noige trying to rewrite history perhaps?

Surely not!

I tend to agee with Vitesse.

IMHO the most he could have done was to have let go of what was very tenuous car control and that would have resulted in one almighty spin - a spin which would have ended who knows where. In other words, I don't think he had any choice other than to try and keep control and keep the thing pointed straight. Anything else would have entailed more risk to life and limb than it would have been worth. Let's face it if there's one thing Noige always looked after it was himself.

Certainly it wasn't a "great" moment in F1, but it was most certainly spectacular TV footage. It's still indelibly burned into my memory, well indelibly until the alzheimer's kicks in.

Neil

The way I heard it first Barry, was that Nigel was at some awards ceremoney later in the year (maybe the Autosport Awards?), and some RAC official told him about it then.

That figures - he wouldn't have thought of it himself!!

Ha! Yes indeedy, and certainly not THAT quickly!

I'd be inclined not to rely on Nige's memory of anything to do with the event, given his rather loud silence on the question of whether or not he and Williams were informed by Goodyear of the likely consequences of his length of stint and his driving style.

That moment is certainly one of my most vivid memories of all the Gps held in Australia . Pretty spectacular . I agree with Vitesse2 about having control of the car . I think he had a lot more than the WC on his mind after that tyre blew .

I first heard of this scenario from Nigel when he appeared on Wogan, a chat show featured on BBC1 in the eighties. I can't recall exactly, but I assume it was shortly after the actual incident took place, so it is not a new idea. IIRC, Nigel quoted someone else as suggesting this scenario, so he can't claim it for himself!

Looking at the incident, having a tyre go at 200mph in that fashion, you don't really have much time to consider WDC and throwing it in the wall - you just hang on for dear life! I know I would! That said, he was very close to taking out Alliot's Ligier - Alliot had just been lapped, went straight past Nigel as his tyre blew, and took up the normal line for the next hairpin. Mansell, his braking somewhat impaired, then nearly collects Alliot from behind!

That said, even if a big accident had occured, the Brabham staright at Adelaide was very wide - I wouldn't have seen a need to stop the race unless Mansell injured himself badly. If the car was just wrecked, it would have been no problem to move it.

As for the Goodyear issue - Patrick Head has stated they advised Williams to keep Mansell out - they had inspected Prost's tires, and reported no problems. Although Goodyear made some suggestions at the time that Williams should have pitted, Head has refuted this - stating they always listened to Goodyear on tyre matters because obviously "they know their product better than we do."

I don't think Mansell or Williams were to blame for the blow out - Goodyear gave bad advice. Of course, Goodyear offered the this advice based on the evidence from Prost - who was more conservative with his tires, and whose TAG engine put less strain on them than the more powerful Honda in the Williams.

Wouldn't this might have also brought up the scenario of a dead world champion. What an idiot.

Niall

Nevertheless the outcome of 1986 was fair. Mansell didn't deserve the title.

Hrvoje

Indeed, Prost was a worthy Champion... :

Prost was indeed worthy - the way he won the most races, led the most laps etc...

as I wans't watching F1 as the ( i was 8 at the time) could someone explain how this season went.

I always thought that the 2 williams drivers dominated and it was only because of infighting that left Prost get the championship.

Niall

Originally posted by Barry Boor
So he is obviously not as quick a thinker as he thought he was. I bet Ayrton and Michael would have been onto that one in a flash.

Excuse me for revisionist thinking, but doesn't it reflect credit onto Mansell that such a cynical and unsporting course of action didn't occur to him?

Even if the truth was that he had his hands full just stopping that runaway Williams, without thinking of possible "professional fouls"

This is all from memory, so feel free to question and ridicule this post without causing offence!

The 1986 was not a straight forward Williams-Honda domination as was the case in 1987. Undoubtedly the FW11 was a fine car, and the Honda engine the fastest in race trim (Renault's qualifying specials were usally fastest on a Saturday afternoon).

Piquet had signed for Williams in place of Rosberg who took Lauda's place at McLaren-TAG. Prost remained with the Woking-based team for the defence of his title.

After much discusion and indignation in the press, 1984 British F3 Champion Johnny Dumfries was confirmed at Lotus alongside Senna, after the Brazilian had vetoed Derek Warwick as a replacement for Elio de Angelis. Elio took Piquet's place at Brabham-BMW, with Patrese returning to the team after two largely fruitless years with Alfa Romeo.

Elsewhere, Rene Arnoux returned to F1 with Liger alongside Jacques Lafitte, and Alboreto and Johansson remianed with Ferrari.

Gerhard Berger had left Arrows to join the new Benetton (nee Toleman) outfit with Teo Fabi.

The rest of the field would be fighting for the minor places - Brundle and Streiff at Tyrrell-Renault, Jonathan Palmer and Rottengatter at Zakspeed, Jones and Tambay at Lola-Ford, Boutsen and Danner at Arrows-BMW. And a few others I have no doubt neglected to mention.

Williams had won the last 3 races of 1985, and Piquet continued the trend, winning easily on his debut from Senna and Lafitte. Mansell crashed out while trying to take the lead from Senna early on, and Rosberg and Prost both retired.

Next to Spain, at the new Jerez track. Senna was on pole as at Brazil, and lead for most of the race. Mansell was running second when he dived into the pits with a handful of laps to go for a tire change. He rejoined behind Prost in third, but on fresh rubber soon ate up the gap. Prost blocked him for a lap before Mansell passed him and set off after Senna. He took soemthing stupid like 10 seconds off the Lotus in 4 laps, and approaching the last hairpin, took lengths off Senna's lead. Exiting the last corner, he pulled out and blasted alongside the Lotus, finishin just 0.014s behind Ayrton - the closest finish in F1 history. Prost took third. Masnell actually thought he had won, as the organizers had moved the start line back up the straight between qualifying and the race. With those extra points, Mansell would have been WDC.

At Imola, Prost's tactical skills came to the fore, and he won on empty, weaving through the final corners to ensure he made it to the finish. Senna was on pole but IIRC retired, along with Mansell. Piquet was 2nd and Berger took his first podium place with 3rd.

Piquet and Senna led the WDC with 15 points each, with Prost on 13 points. Mansell had 6 at this stage.

At Monaco, Prost kept Senna off pole for the first time in 1986, and led throughout to win for the 3rd year in a row at the principality. Rosberg made it a McLaren 1-2, with Senna 3rd and Mansell 4th. Prost now led the WDC on 22 points, from Senna on 19.

In Belgium, Piquet seemed to wake up and took pole. Senna ruined Prost's race at the start, clipping his wing and triggering a multicar accident. Prost had to pit and lost a lap, but took 6th place after a storming drive - his fastest lap was over 1 second quicker than anyone else.

Mansell and Senna dueled, with the Williams driver taking his 3rd career win ahead of the Brazilian. Johansson gave Ferrari something to cheer - 3rd place, and he even led during the pitstops - the first time a Ferrari had led since mid-1985.

Mansell made it 2 in a row in Montreal, scoring the win from pole. On a day when eveyone else had fuel worries, the English driver dominated to close up the WDC race. I really can't remember the minor places, but Senna I think came only 5th, with Prost 2nd? Piquet 3rd and Rosberg 4th.

Detroit was all about Senna - another pole and victory to lift him to the top of the WDC once again. Lafitte was second, having led breifly for Ligier, and Prost another consistent run to 3rd. Mansell was 5th after a spin, and Piquet crashed heavily.

WDC after 7 races - Senna 36, Prost 31, Mansell 29, Piquet 19.

Mansell won again in France, from Prost and Piquet. Senna retired with engine trouble.

Mansell then won again at Brands Hatch - 4 wins in 5 races now. He was forced to use Piquet's spare car after his own race car broke at the first start - Lafitte had an F1 career ending crash at Paddock Hill, and a restart was required. Mansell houndered Piquet until half distance, then the Brazilian, under pressure, missed a gear and Mansell was never headed again - career win #6 and the WDC lead he would hold until the very last race.

WDC - Mansell 47, Prost 41, Senna 36, Piquet 29.

Piquet hit back at Hockenheim - after his opening win he had appeared to relax too much, and found himself 18 points behind his #2 in the WDC before this race.

Rosberg announced his retirement, and duly took pole. He led for most of the race, with Prost dicing with Piquet too. Mansell and Senna never really figured, and looked to be heading for low scoring positions until first Rosberg ran out of petrol on the last lap while 2nd at the first chicane, and then Prost did as well entering the stadium. Senna and Mansell gleefully swept past for 2nd and 3rd, with the mcLAren's eventaully being credited with 5th (Rosberg) and 6th (Prost). Prost actually tried to push his car to the line, until informed it was all in vain. A computer glitch on the Mac's was to blame for the disaster.

Piquet won again at the new Hungaroring - the first modern day GP run in Eastern Europe. In qualifying, he discovered a new diff that worked really well, did not tell Mansell, and simply drove away in the race after a big battle with Senna that included a wonderful pass on the Lotus at the last corner. Mansell was a distant 3rd once again, and Prost crashed out.

WDC - Mansell 55, Senna 48, Piquet 47, Prost 41. I wish the WDC was still this good!

In Austria, Fabi took Benetton's first pole, and Berger was 2nd. They led early, but quickly fell back. Mansell and Prost made the running, with the Williams again looking a strong bet for the win until he retired a mid distance. Piquet and Senna retired, leaving Prost to win. Rosberg was running 2nd late on but retired as well, bringing Alboreto and Johansson into 2nd and 3rd for Ferrari's best finish of 1986. The two Lola's of Jones and Tambay took 4th and 5th. Prost took 9 points out of Mansell's WDC lead.

It was all Williams at Monza,with Piquet for once beating Mansell fairly - passing him at half distance. Senna retired at the start and looked to be slipping out of the title race. Prost retired at half distance.

WDC - Mansell 61, Piquet 56, Prost 50, Senna 48.

In Protugal, Mansell beat Senna away from the lights and was never headed - leading from start to finish. Behind him, all sorts of chaos ensured as Senna, Prost and Piquet vainly chased him. Piquet spun, Senna ran out of petrol and Prost took 2nd, with Piquet recovering to 3rd and Senna credited with 4th. The WDC was now a three horse race, withMansell in a strong position.

WDC - Mansell 70, Piquet 60, Prost 56, Senna 48.

Mexico - back on the calendar for the first time since 1970. Mansell, starting 3rd fluffed the start and dropped to 14th. He then proceeded to destroy his tires chasing up the field, and Piquet did the same. Mansell required 2 pitstops, and Piquet 3. Prost would surely have won, but his clutch broke at his first pitstop and he then had to preserve his rubber rather than risk stalling at another pitstop. On a day when everyone else was destroying their tires, Prost drove brilliantly, and was rewarded with 2nd, behind Berger whose Pirelli tires were more effectively than Goodyear on this day. it was his and Benetton's first GP win, and BMW's last until 2001. Piquet and Mansell took 4th and 5th.

WDC - Mansell 70 (72), Piquet 63, Prost 62, Senna 52.

Mansell needed only 3rd at Adelaide to win the WDC, and took pole. Taking it easy, he was 4th at the end of the first lap, letting Piquet and Senna make the running. A torrid battle raged upfront, with Rosberg at his final race pushing his McLaren to the front. Senna's engine went at half distance, leaving Rosberg ahead of Piquet-Mansell and a recovering Prost, who had punctured a tire after 30 odd laps and pitted. Crucially, Goodyear advised Williams that Prost's tires were fine and all was OK - a pitstop would not be needed. Of course, Prost's TAG engine was easier on tires, as was Prost's driving style. Piquet spun, but got back past Mansell, who was now running with Prost.

Rosberg retired from the lead after 60 laps with a tire blowout, and Prost passed Mansell, so Piquet now led by 10s from Prost and Mansell who ran together. With 20 laps to go, mansell was taking it easy. He was a minute ahead of Johansson in 4th, but Williams or himself did not feel the need for a precautionary pitstop - after all, things can go wrong at pitstops - better to stay seemed to be Mansell and Head's opinions.

On lap 63, Mansell's tire exploded. Williams immediately called Piquet in as a precaution - and Prost led. Piquet chased hard but was still 4s down at the finish.

Final WDC - Prost 72 (74) Mansell 70 (72) Piquet 69 Senna 52.

Prost had displayed some incredible driving during 1986 - Monaco, Spa, Mexico City the real highlights. Mansell was largely unlucky, and outperformed Piquet more than their 1 point difference in the WDC implied.

Overall, Prost was the deserving WDC, although Mansell was unlucky. Autocourse IIRC rated the drivers as Prost-Mansell-Senna-Piquet.

'86 was one of the great seasons, but had they not ballsed up the finishing line for the Spanish GP - or had they penalised Senna for baulking on the straight - Mansell would have been World Champ. I still think he deserved it more than Alain, as although the Williams was a better car than the McLaren, Mansell had helped to develop it to be that way and I have the suspicion that Piquet's Honda was better than Nige's

Good "season review" mike

Few additions:

It was the Benetton boys, Berger and Fabi who triggered the first corner incident in Belgium IIRC, not Senna.

The reason why the Berger fell back in Austria was that he had to replace a flat battery, loosing him I believe four or five laps, otherwise he could very possibly have won his first GP. Fabi led briefly for about 200 metres, passing his teammate, but overrevving the engine in the process and retiring on the spot.

In Adelaide, his final race, Rosberg made a remarkable charge on the first lap, passing I believe four or five cars in a single lap in the same fashion as Senna at Donington!

This was the first time I had heard this...my first reaction was that I wasn't surprised that mansell hadn't thought of it and that if it happened this season Schumacher would be pouring Tomato Ketchup down himself before the car had even stopped!

The tone of this thread seems to imply Mansell was at fault for NOT throwing the Wiliams into the wall, and that it was consistent with his level of intelligence.

OK, Nigel didn't come across as the sharpest tool in the shed, but it is a bit much to expect him to think like that when he is preoccupied with stopping a car doing 200 mph with only one rear tire and one front, as the other front tire was in the air, and having to contend with avoiding a Ligier at the same time.

Of course, Mansell could never do right in many people's eyes - presumably the same people criticizing him here would suggest he cheated Prost out of the 1986 title HAD he thrown it into the wall and got the race stopped, and called him stupid for injurying himself! Some guys just can't do any right!

OK, Mansell wasn't the most charming guy out of the car, and at times his sense of self-importance made you feel nauseous, but as a racing driver he was one of the fastest ever. Who else overtook Senna as often as Mansell did in the late 80s/early 90s? No one. This is the same Senna who a lot of people on this BB rate as the best ever! I am not suggesting Mansell was the greatest driver in the history of motor racing, but he deserves more respect than he gets!

During these best days of F1 I ever had luck too see I was a fanatic follower of Senna but I also had much more respect for Mansell than for Prost or Piquet. From this distance I consider Mansell as probably the least skilled of that quartet but also as a "sportiest" of them. No mind games, offending statements or dubious on-track manoeuvres... In today's world this approach is almost inevitably seen as a sign of Mansell's lower IQ or something like that. For me, Mansell was one of last "old type" racing drivers, one with lion's heart and clear will to beat his opposition, but only on the circuit and with legal methods. I can imagine Prost, Piquet or Senna deliberatly crashing if that would obtain them a WDC, but certainly not Mansell (or Damon, or Hakkinen, speaking of it).
Mansell showed he can play unsportly, as well as that he has lot more brain that some believed, when he signed that lucrative last contract with McLaren - robbing Dennis of several million dollars for nothing isn't very sporty but it is also one more reason why I like Mansell.

mikedeering
A few weeks ago I have seen Mansell's Adelaide manoever for the very first time since watching it live on TV in 1986 and I must say that I would rank it in the top five of any manoeuvre I have ever seen in f1 so far. NM showed incredible car control. Mansell really fighted the car down to a halt. I would advise some people to download it in the web before they come to the conclusion that godlike Michael and Ayrton would have done better.

I doubt it very much.

At last, a couple of people who agree with my earlier post. Maybe Mansell didn’t think of putting it in the wall and stopping the race – he had enough to do slowing his three wheeled chariot down after all – but even if he had thought of it, he wouldn’t have DONE it. And that is worthy of praise, not censure. How far have the Sennas and Schumachers dragged us down if that sort of cynical manipulation is deemed to be a clever and praiseworthy tactic?

I never much liked Mansell – I couldn’t see why Chapman gave him a F1 chance (an early version of Button perhaps, although Nige was a bit older and had been around the block a bit more) although Colin was proven to have been 100% right. But you could not but admire Mansell’s guts and determination as a racing driver – it was not for nothing that the tifosi dubbed him “Il Leone”.

And when it came down to cases, it was Mansell alone who was prepared to stand up to Senna’s bully boy tactics. It put them in the gravel a few times and they came to blows once, and it culminated in that memorable wheel to wheel duel (in Spain?) when Senna bobbed his car towards Mansell, who returned the favour, then Senna looked over at him then backed down and gave him the corner. After that, there was never any more funny stuff from the Brazilian and I genuinely think that he had come to respect Mansell in a way that I am not sure he ever extended to Prost.

But of course Mansell should have been taken out of the car and put in a box until next needed. Out of the car, he was such a total pain…

Have to agree with sentiments of Mike and BRG, eloquently put gents.
The thing I found remarkable about this "moment" was not so much it's inclusion as it's position - higher up the list than the Gilles/Arnoux humdinger at Dijon.
It will be interesting to see which (if any) F1 moments are deemed worthy of inclusion in the top half.

Originally posted by BRG
But of course Mansell should have been taken out of the car and put in a box until next needed. Out of the car, he was such a total pain…

I have to agree! - who said that originally - Nigel Roebuck or Patrick Head spring to mind!

I think alot of the people who bash Mansell in this BB only started watching F1 in the mid 90s (apologies to everyone if I am wrong and they are offended by this suggestion). They just see Mansell as an overweight, overpaid driver from 1995 who couldn't be bothered (Which to be fair he was by then!). They didn't get to witness his battles with Senna et al in the 1980s where he proved to be a real racer.

As for the top 100 sporting moments - you have to remember the poll is British, which probably counted heavily in Mansell's favour in the poll against Dijon 79. Also, in 1979, F1 was not mainstream at all, and I doubt too many Brits saw Arnoux and Villeneuve dice live. Mansell's bid for the WDC drew in many viewers, and the whole experience of getting up at 3am to watch him race, combined with the great TV images means people still hold it in high regard 16 years later.

Do I expect any further F1 events to feature in the Top 50 of the poll? No. Possibly Hill winning the 96 WDC, just because of Murray Walker's reaction.

Spot on, Mike and BRG. For a long time I have felt most uncomfortable with the fashion of depicting Mansell as a blockhead. Irritating? Yup. Hard to deal with? The evidence seems to be there.

But I've always respected his intelligence as a racer. I recall noticing that he was the first, on that changeable day at Silverstone in 1988, to chase the damp patches of road in order to eliminate another tyre change.

Vanwall.

It wasn't Noige who was the blockhead, it was his so-called "fans", who brought the manners of the football terrace to F1. I have no real problem with the heroic Mansell of the 80s, it is the post-Ferrari postscript that really grates. The plucky underdog as against the spoiled brat who had failed to set Ferrari alight as he'd promised: his comments about joining Ferrari were later echoed by Schumacher, but MS actually made them happen (with a lot of help ). Then the return to Williams when it was obvious that they had a WC-winning car ... "sacked" after winning the WDC and the move to America with all the hype.

And then the second return to Williams, when FW & PH finally realised that Damon really DID know what he was talking about (why did it take Noige to convince them?) and the sad further postscript at McLaren.

No arguments with Noige the racer, Vanwall - he always gave his all. Unfortunately his ego usually gave its all as well ....

Originally posted by Ali_G
as I wans't watching F1 as the ( i was 8 at the time)

That's no excuse! I've been watching F1 since I was 5.

All I can remember is Piquet blowing up every race or punching other drivers...

Originally posted by Vitesse2
No arguments with Noige the racer, Vanwall - he always gave his all. Unfortunately his ego usually gave its all as well ....

Prescient as ever, Richard. The above comment, and your others, provide a cringingly accurate playback of the Days of Noige.

Funny about the ego thing ... when one reads "My Autobiography" peppered with phrases such as "what people don't understand is ..." one cannot help but gain the impression that the ego is as fragile as a Ming vase.

Gary D.

15 years later everything seems easier, different to NM.

15 years later.


Back then he said: 'I am glad to be alive.'

Originally posted by Vanwall

But I've always respected his intelligence as a racer. I recall noticing that he was the first, on that changeable day at Silverstone in 1988, to chase the damp patches of road in order to eliminate another tyre change.

Vanwall.

I recall that - coming down to Woodcote with Nannini chasing hard, Mansell went left-right-left looking for the wet patches to cool his tires. Nannini went straight-straight-straight and passed Nigel!

Originally posted by mikedeering
I recall that - coming down to Woodcote with Nannini chasing hard, Mansell went left-right-left looking for the wet patches to cool his tires. Nannini went straight-straight-straight and passed Nigel!

Aha! Your phraseology is spookily reminiscent of Roebuck's account ;) . Hmm. Roebuck also wrote: "He (Noige) drove intelligently too. In the drying conditions he weaved his car all over the place, actively seeking wet road to keep his tyres alive. Soft compound wet tyres last no time at all on a dry road. Inevitably, it cost him some time, for it made his lap that much longer, but in the late stages of the race it might be crucial, who knew?"

Methinks that if Prost had done this, we would all be saying: "Ah, the Professor!"

Anyway, it seems Sandro was an interesting mixture of inspired and flaky that day. He spun twice, the second time going round the back of the guard rail at Woodcote and incurring no opprobrium from the officials!

And in the end Noige still grabbed second in an FW12 that had been "repassived" overnight and which Patrick Head described as: " ... a bit of a bodge ..."

Vanwall.

PS. Me! ... the counsel for Noige's defence! I never would have thought ...

I wasn't criticizing Nigel for his actions - it made sense what he was doing. Mind you, had Nannini not spun off and Mansell got his place back, I am sure everyone would have attacked Mansell for throwing away 2nd place!

I recall Sandro's spin up Club was very odd - I really liked Nannini, and the helicopter accident in 1990 robbed the sport of a real talent. Had he raced at Benetton in 1991, would MS have got his break at that time???

I also recall Mansell passing Alboreto between Woodcote and Club, and giving Michele such a wide berth he actually put his Williams on the grass! Presumably he was just searching for more water!

Originally posted by mikedeering
Presumably he was just searching for more water!

Guys: Just to tell you that next week, on the top 50 sporting moments, the Senna domination of Donington 93 is on it.

Makes up for the rest of the crap. Prost ramming Senna off in 89 is also on it.

Niall

Originally posted by Ali_G
Prost ramming Senna off in 89 is also on it.

Makes you wonder about what is meant by "100 Great "Sporting" Moments" - that sort of stuff seems distinctly UNsporting to me...;)

Maybe, as a fellow Brummie to Noige, and at the risk of chips on shoulder syndrome, I can have a go at explaining his ego problems.

Birmingham is not exactly treated with respect by the UK...if you need someone on telly here to represent authority, you get a Queen's English accent. If you need wisdom, you get a Yorkshire sage (bah gum). If you need warmth, an Irish accent. If you need 'mateyness' you get a Geordie (North East) accent. And so on.

If you need stupidity, you get 'Or-roit?' (Brummagem for 'hello'). The only accent as denigrated is Liverpool, and even then they fluked us out of the League Cup final

So we have a bit of a persecution complex here in Brum - the rest of the country thinks were stupid

Further, Mansell had one ally in the world of motor racing who could get him somewhere. And that was Colin Chapman. After Chapman died, in 1983, Mansell was in a team whose manager reputedly said at the end of the season 'Mansell is whingeing about having no engines. Next year we'll make sure he hasn't got a car'. This is of the bloke who outscored his team-mate by 500% and got the only podium of the year (sorry deangelis86 - but I was a big fan of Elio!).

I mean, look at what everyone was saying, a guy called Nigel shouldn't be a superstar, you should have a name like Renzo Zorzi. He had the wrong name, the wrong accent, the wrong nationality (look at Geoff Lees, why did he never get a decent F1 drive? Was he worse than Teo Fabi?), the wrong image, the wrong wife, etc etc.

He should never have got back in a car after the de Cesaris shunt. He should never have driven at Austria '80. He should never have had the opportunity given his stop-start career. But he did it.

Is it any wonder he was paranoid? Is it any wonder that, when he was finally successful, he wanted some sort of recognition?

Sorry about that - I'm sure most other World Champions have had a worse time of it (Denny Hulme comes to mind for some reason). But in the mollycoddled era of the 1980s, Mansell was an exception.

(And my favourite driver of the 1980s was Ghinzani! Go figure)

Originally posted by mikedeering

In Belgium, Piquet seemed to wake up and took pole. Senna ruined Prost's race at the start, clipping his wing and triggering a multicar accident. Prost had to pit and lost a lap, but took 6th place after a storming drive - his fastest lap was over 1 second quicker than anyone else

Mansell and Senna dueled, with the Williams driver taking his 3rd career win ahead of the Brazilian.

True, but Piquet led easily until a minor mechanical problem. Much the same happened in 1987 and Piquet would never win at Spa.

Originally posted by mikedeering

Piquet won again at the new Hungaroring - the first modern day GP run in Eastern Europe. In qualifying, he discovered a new diff that worked really well, did not tell Mansell, and simply drove away in the race after a big battle with Senna that included a wonderful pass on the Lotus at the last corner. Mansell was a distant 3rd once again, and Prost crashed out.

I like the story that Piquet found something new but Frank Dernie has said it isn't true - he was just faster than anyone else.

Originally posted by mikedeering


Prost had displayed some incredible driving during 1986 - Monaco, Spa, Mexico City the real highlights. Mansell was largely unlucky, and outperformed Piquet more than their 1 point difference in the WDC implied.

Overall, Prost was the deserving WDC, although Mansell was unlucky. Autocourse IIRC rated the drivers as Prost-Mansell-Senna-Piquet.

I think a lot of the difference in how the performances of Piquet and Mansell were and are perceived is because of how they were expected to perform. Sort of, unconciously, 'Piquet should have beaten Mansell easily, he didn't, therefore Piquet isn't that good. Mansell beat Piquet, therefore he is that good'. Which is self-contradictory (as in some Webber-Heidfeld discussions). Piquet was also unlucky - his loss of Spa was the start of Mansell's victory run. In Jerez he had problems, and in Adelaide the tyre problem affected him, too.