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Autumn Grand Prix Florence, 1948

Started by roger_valentine , Dec 29 2002 18:49

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17 replies to this topic

#1 roger_valentine

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Posted 29 December 2002 - 18:49

Autumn Grand Prix, Castinia (?) circuit, Florence, 1948

I came accross this event, which I'd never heard of before, during my rummages through the Pathe Archives. What makes it newsworthy from Pathe's point of view is that the leader (un-named) crashed into the crowd killing six spectators, and was (as was to become the norm with Italian motor racing accidents) charged with murder.

Anyone have any more details?

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#2 Rob29

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Posted 29 December 2002 - 19:53

III Circuito di Firenze-Sep 26 1948-F2 race. No mention of any such incident in Sheldon report. Maybe a support event or 1947 when there was a sports car race?
Though the fact that no race seems to have been held in Florence since 1948 could be relevant.

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#3 David McKinney

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Posted 29 December 2002 - 21:56

During the 26/9/48 Florence F2 race Pasquale Ermini crashed his Fiat 1100 into the crowd, killing four spectators. Maybe two more died later
No doubt dretcetrini can tell us just what sort of Fiat 1100 it was - an Ermini, perhaps?

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#4 David T.

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Posted 02 January 2003 - 15:08

Circuito delle Cascine, 60 Laps x km 4,250 = Km 255.
Starters: 26
Finishers: 10
It was a Formula 2 race

CIRCUITO DELLE CASCINE, GRAN PREMIO FORMULA 2

1. Sommer, Raymond FERRARI 2000 2h15'30,0 at 112,915 km/h avg
2. Biondetti, Clemente FERRARI 2h16'35,0, 1 lap behind
3. Scagliarini, Guido CISITALIA 2h16'56,0, 2 laps behind
4. Taruffi, Piero CISITALIA 2h15'51"3/10
5. Bira, SIMCA 2h17'39"
6. von Stuck, CISITALIA 2h15'41"
7. Spreafico, Dante, FIAT 2h17'28"2/10
8. Sighinolfi, Sergio FIAT 2h15'31"3/10
9. Moore, OBM 2h15'31"3/10
10. Cacciari, Alberico FIAT 2h16'12"2/10

Fastest lap: the 29th of Sommer, in 2'12,0 at 115,905 km/h avg.

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#5 roger_valentine

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Posted 02 January 2003 - 16:43

Thank you David T. I was going to say that it looks more like f2 than sports cars, and that some of the cars look a bit like Cisitalias.

Pathe say 25 starters. Definitely say six killed and "hundreds more injured". Best quote on the Pathe clip is that the driver was accused of "tampering with his engine to increase its speed". Aren't they supposed to do that?

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#6 David T.

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Posted 02 January 2003 - 18:06

Pasquino Ermini's old mechanic told me in 1997 that the accident was due to a brake default - but you know that those times little garage didn't use to check their cars so often, so the car may have been fielded without the brakes liquid having being changed since the preceding event. Among the dead spectators there were some foreign young seamen, who were watching the race near their bikes. I have some Police photos of the accident scene and I have to say they are rather impressive - so impressive that they have never been published. After the accident Ermini began to think at his retirement from racing - actually he would simply go on as a race car constructor.

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#7 David T.

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Posted 02 January 2003 - 18:10

For your information, the Parco delle Cascine is a park very near the centre of Florence, which used to host cars races in the pre-war and immediately post-war period. The 1948 was the very last edition of the Cascine Grand Prix, organized by the Automobile Club Florence, who would carry on their racing activity with the Coppa della Consuma and the Mugello road race.

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#8 Darren Galpin

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Posted 03 January 2003 - 08:27

I don't suppose anyone has a map of the circuit......

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#9 Rob29

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Posted 03 January 2003 - 14:19

Found one in 'The Racing Fifteen-Hundreds' by David Venables. However that refers to pre-war racing-not sure it was the same circuit.Looks quite spectator friendy -right by a railway station.

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#10 Vitesse2

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Posted 03 January 2003 - 14:27

Originally posted by Rob29
Found one in 'The Racing Fifteen-Hundreds' by David Venables. However that refers to pre-war racing-not sure it was the same circuit.Looks quite spectator friendy -right by a railway station.

I came to the same conclusion Rob. The map in Venables can still be related to the roads in Florence today (search for Lavagnini on the Multimap of Florence), but the Parco del Cascine seems to be in a different part of the city.

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#11 Udo K.

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Posted 03 January 2003 - 17:53

Originally posted by Vitesse2

I came to the same conclusion Rob. The map in Venables can still be related to the roads in Florence today (search for Lavagnini on the Multimap of Florence), but the Parco del Cascine seems to be in a different part of the city.

Right, Vitesse 2, the Parco del Cascine is in a different part. David T. lives right there round the corner and will tell us more, I'm sure.
Maybe he has got a track map.

David?

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#12 Stefan Ornerdal

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Posted 03 January 2003 - 19:49

I have a map, hopefully the right Florence circuit, on my site!
Here:
http://user.tninet.s...91w/F248_20.htm

Stefan

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#13 Marcor

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Posted 03 January 2003 - 19:56

Stefan, your map is the same as in Venables book. So it wouldn't be the good one...

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#14 Marcor

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Posted 03 January 2003 - 20:15

I've just remembered where I've seen the good 1948 map: in Gordini, un sorcier, une équipe by Christian Huet, page 125. The track was partly located between the River Arno and the Horse racecourse.

I've the book but no scan...

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#15 David T.

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Posted 03 January 2003 - 23:02

Originally posted by Udo K.

Right, Vitesse 2, the Parco del Cascine is in a different part. David T. lives right there round the corner and will tell us more, I'm sure.
Maybe he has got a track map.

David?

Yes, Udo, as you know well by now, from my window I can see the trees of the park. Well, the track of the Parco delle Cascine Circuit actually changed in the years. The Viale Spartaco Lavagnini isn't too far from the Parco delle Cascine, whose track was 7 kms long in 1921 and 4,250 kms in 1947-48. In 1933 and 1937 a race in Florence was organized, but it wasn't at the Cascine park: as a matter of fact its official name was Circuito di Firenze (which was the name of the race even in the years it held at the Cascine park). In 1933 the track was the following: piazza Ferrucci, Lungarno Cellini, Via delle Fornaci, Via Ser Ventura, Via dei Bastioni, Rampe di San Niccolò, Piazzale Michelangelo, Campo Sportivo ASSI, Piazza Ferrucci: 4,650 kms. In 1937 a lap was differently set: Piazza Cavour, Viale Principessa Margherita, Viale Filippo Strozzi, Viale Principessa Margherita, Piazza Cavour: kms 3,307. Perhaps you will be interested to know that Viale Principessa Margherita is the old name (until 1944) of the Viale Spartaco Lavagnini! Just another little item: the very first car race at the Cascine Park was held in 1903 ("Record al Chilometro alle Cascine"), while I have the records of another race held there in 1926.

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#16 Vitesse2

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Posted 03 January 2003 - 23:42

So that means the map in Venables only applies to the 1937 race.

He also seems to have used a post-war map, as what I presume you are calling the Piazza Cavour is named as the Piazza Liberta.

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#17 David T.

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Posted 04 January 2003 - 15:49

Piazza della Libertà's original name was Piazza San Gallo; towards the end of the XIX Century the name was changed into Piazza Cavour, which was retained till 1939 when the Fascists christened it Piazza Ciano. At last, the current name Piazza della Libertà was given to the square in 1945.

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#18 gdecarli

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Posted 16 October 2005 - 17:26

Originally posted by David T.
In 1933 the track was the following: piazza Ferrucci, Lungarno Cellini, Via delle Fornaci, Via Ser Ventura, Via dei Bastioni, Rampe di San Niccolò, Piazzale Michelangelo, Campo Sportivo ASSI, Piazza Ferrucci: 4,650 kms.

I have just drawn this map: