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A very slow lap...

Started by David Beard , Jan 02 2003 22:09

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78 replies to this topic

#1 David Beard

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Posted 02 January 2003 - 22:09

Most of you will recognise the circuit....but how about putting a date to these photos?

#2 Vitesse2

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Posted 02 January 2003 - 22:16

1976?

#3 Allen Brown

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Posted 02 January 2003 - 22:22

Early 1976 - the track's still far from ready. The first meeting was going to be Sep 1976 I think but was postponed.

I'd guess it was late March. A Sunday, judging by the weather. How precise did you want that date?

Allen

#4 David Beard

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Posted 02 January 2003 - 22:25

Originally posted by Allen Brown
Early 1976 - the track's still far from ready. The first meeting was going to be Sep 1976 I think but was postponed.

I'd guess it was late March. A Sunday, judging by the weather. How precise did you want that date?

Allen

I would have sworn it was before 76...

#5 David Beard

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Posted 02 January 2003 - 22:28

But it was a Sunday :clap:

#6 MichaelJP

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Posted 02 January 2003 - 22:29

Interesting photos, I've never seen ones of the reconstruction of Donington. It looks totally different with the trees still there heading up through Coppice Wood after the old bridge.

I've often wondered why that bridge was ever there as it crosses no river and doesn't seem to lead anywhere - was it some sort of 19th century park folly perhaps?

Any more pics like that?

- MichaelJP

#7 TODave2

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Posted 02 January 2003 - 22:31

*anorak on*

Ahh, a Cortina without the three-cluster rear lights. Quite unusual.

*anorak back on coat peg*

#8 Vitesse2

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Posted 02 January 2003 - 22:35

Too many leaves on the trees for March, Allen! I'd say May ....

#9 Vitesse2

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Posted 02 January 2003 - 22:39

Originally posted by TODave2
*anorak on*

Ahh, a Cortina without the three-cluster rear lights. Quite unusual.

*anorak back on coat peg*

Errr.... that's a Mark 2 Cortina. The round lights were on the Mark 1.

#10 David Beard

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Posted 02 January 2003 - 22:45

Originally posted by Vitesse2

Errr.... that's a Mark 2 Cortina. The round lights were on the Mark 1.

And the Lola GT

I was convinced I took these photos in late 73 or 74.
Have no more of them, sorry.

#11 TODave2

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Posted 02 January 2003 - 22:48

Well... that's just anorak and bobble hat

One day I'll get something right on this forum.

#12 petefenelon

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Posted 02 January 2003 - 23:26

Originally posted by David Beard
Most of you will recognise the circuit....but how about putting a date to these photos?

Can I just quote Tom Robinson here?

Grey Cortina

Wish I had a grey Cortina
Whiplash aerial, racing trim
Cortina owner - no one meaner
Wish that I could be like him

Twin exhaust and rusty bumper
Chewing gum at traffic light
Stop at red but leave on amber
Grey Cortina outa sight

Wish I had a grey Cortina
Whiplash aerial, racing trim
Cortina owner - no one meaner
Wish that I could be like him

Furlined seats and lettered windscreen
Elbow on the windowsill
Eight track blazing Brucie Springsteen
Bomber jacket, dressed to kill

Wish I had a grey Cortina
Whiplash aerial, racing trim
Cortina owner - no one meaner
Wish that I could be like him

Never cop a parking ticket
Never seem to show its age
Speed police too slow to nick it
Grey Cortina got it made

Wish I had a grey Cortina
Whiplash aerial, racing trim
Cortina owner - no one meaner
Wish that I could be like him

#13 Tim Murray

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Posted 03 January 2003 - 00:07

For what it's worth, in May 1975 (I'm positive about the date) I visited the Donington collection and walked round the track. My recollection is that at this time the track was in a much less advanced state than the pictures show. I don't have any photos, unfortunately.

#14 LB

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Posted 03 January 2003 - 01:24

well its after august 1968 anyway - thats the date for the Cortina ( Aug 1968-July 1969)

#15 Ray Bell

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Posted 03 January 2003 - 11:53

Originally posted by LB
well its after august 1968 anyway - thats the date for the Cortina ( Aug 1968-July 1969)

Now how can you say that?

If it's a 1200 or 1500 (can't quite read the badge...) it could be from early 1967. They had, of course, different struts in them as well as the smaller engine sizes...

#16 Vitesse2

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Posted 03 January 2003 - 12:37

Originally posted by LB
well its after august 1968 anyway - thats the date for the Cortina ( Aug 1968-July 1969)

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Now how can you say that?

From the G suffix on the number plate. The suffix system started in mid-1963 when they ran out of numbers in some local authorities and A covered June(?)-December 1963. B was 1964, C was 1965, D was 1966. In 1967, they responded to industry requests and moved to an August 1st change, so E was January-July 1967 only, and F started on August 1st 1967, G on August 1st 1968 etc. They worked through the entire alphabet, omitting I, O, Q and Z, and then went back to the beginning, reversing it to a prefix system starting from A again. This time Q was included, but only to replace the old Q numbers which were applied to imports, cars awaiting type approval etc - a Q number does not signify year of manufacture.

#17 David Beard

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Posted 03 January 2003 - 12:48

Originally posted by petefenelon

Can I just quote Tom Robinson here?

Nice song..but I'm not Cortina man. The chum who owned it is touring the Southern Hemisphere somewhere at this moment, and until I catch him on E Mail I'm not going to be able to bottom this date. I'm absolutely sure, the more I think about it , that it's before 1976 though, and I'll be very surprised if it's 75.
Now, if the bloke who was laying the kerb stones happened to be a TNFer....

#18 Ray Bell

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Posted 03 January 2003 - 12:51

Originally posted by Vitesse2
From the G suffix on the number plate. The suffix system started in mid-1963 when they ran out of numbers.....

No wonder you poms lose at cricket...

Too busy thinking up strange ideas with number plates.

#19 ian senior

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Posted 03 January 2003 - 13:39

I wonder if that car subsequently belonged to Ian Dury's Billericay Dickie, who "had a love affair with Nina, in the back of my Cortina"?

#20 Rob29

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Posted 03 January 2003 - 14:07

Originally posted by Vitesse2
1976?

Looks simlar to when I first went there in Jan 1976. No tarmac on the circuit. Trees were there for some years after the circuit opened. Reasons I have read for cutting them down include Dutch Elm Disease and safety of aircraft at East Midlands Airport.

#21 BRG

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Posted 03 January 2003 - 14:07

Originally posted by Ray Bell
No wonder you poms lose at cricket...

Too busy thinking up strange ideas with number plates.

Ah, that explains it then! We've just changed the system again, as the prefix system ran out of letter, to a two letter (identifying place of registration) two digit (identifying the year) and three letter (random) system - eg. LN 02 BRG (registered in London in 2002). And this changed to the system coincided with our latest cricketing decline!

Or maybe we we're just crap at cricket?

#22 Racer.Demon

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Posted 03 January 2003 - 14:36

Originally posted by Ray Bell
No wonder you poms lose at cricket...

Too busy thinking up strange ideas with number plates.

No wonder why those from the Continent don't even have the tiniest grasp of what the game of cricket really constitutes.

In Holland we have a license plate system that has worked for over five decades. The first letter always gives away the registration date of the car. Vowels and Cs aren't used since 1978, Bs and Vs are for trucks and buses, Ms are for motorcycles, AA is for the royal family!

AB-00-00 (starting 1951)
00-00-AB (starting 1965)
00-AB-00 (starting 1973)
DB-01-BB (starting 1978)
DB-BB-01 (starting 1991)
01-DB-BB (starting 1999)

Only when this series runs out we'll be in trouble... So couldn't the Brits have been more imaginative? :lol:

#23 mikedeering

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Posted 03 January 2003 - 14:40

Originally posted by BRG
Ah, that explains it then! We've just changed the system again, as the prefix system ran out of letter, to a two letter (identifying place of registration) two digit (identifying the year) and three letter (random) system - eg. LN 02 BRG (registered in London in 2002). And this changed to the system coincided with our latest cricketing decline!

Or maybe we we're just crap at cricket?

The new system came into effect in Sept 01. I would argue English cricket has been in decline since the 1992 World Cup, if not the 1987 Ashes Series. Apart from the occasional surprise (1997 Ashes) we haven't had a single performance to be proud of!

#24 Vitesse2

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Posted 03 January 2003 - 14:56

Originally posted by Racer.Demon
In Holland we have a license plate system that has worked for over five decades.... So couldn't the Brits have been more imaginative?

Ah, well, Mattijs, our old system worked for nine and a half decades. The suffix/prefix bit just made it easier to identify the car's year. Prior to that you need access to the DVLA listings - any one-, two- or three-letter/number combination can be pinned down to a few months (except in the case of areas which issued very few numbers like Orkney, Shetland, Caithness and other remote bits of Scotland!)

#25 dmj

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Posted 08 January 2003 - 23:17

Originally posted by David Beard

And the Lola GT

I was convinced I took these photos in late 73 or 74.
Have no more of them, sorry.

Quite a few TVRs also used these rear lights. And probably a lot of other small sports car manufacturers.

#26 Ray Bell

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Posted 09 January 2003 - 10:52

Originally posted by dmj
Quite a few TVRs also used these rear lights. And probably a lot of other small sports car manufacturers.

Just like the EJ Holden tail light was so useful...

But what tail lights adorn the rear of a Ferrari 250LM?

And which different tail light clusters were used on Lotus Elans?

#27 byrkus

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Posted 09 January 2003 - 10:54

Originally posted by Ray Bell
But what tail lights adorn the rear of a Ferrari 250LM?

Fiat 850. Also on Lancia Stratos, IIRC.

#28 Breadmaster

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Posted 09 January 2003 - 14:00

nice photos! cheers David!

#29 Ray Bell

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Posted 09 January 2003 - 19:39

Originally posted by byrkus
Fiat 850. Also on Lancia Stratos, IIRC.

Very good... within two minutes, too.

Not having a go at the Elan stuff?

#30 Mark A

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Posted 09 January 2003 - 20:31

Didn't the Elan use Hillman Imp lights??

#31 Ray Bell

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Posted 09 January 2003 - 21:00

Not the ones I'm thinking of... not tail lights, anyway.

But something else does. I think the Imp lights were also on Humbers etc.

#32 byrkus

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Posted 09 January 2003 - 22:11

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Not having a go at the Elan stuff?

Sorry... I'm more familiar with 'continental' cars. :lol:

#33 Ray Bell

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Posted 13 January 2003 - 10:05

Some had Vauxhall Victor lights, other models had the late model E-type clusters.

They had Vanguard radiators, of course...

Anyone know where the really tricky ones came from... the blinkers on the front of the Plus Twos?

#34 Mark Beckman

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Posted 13 January 2003 - 11:43

David, thank you, you have given me some details that I hadnt seen before for the recreation of the old track.

Do you have more shots ?

Is that a kink in Kramer right hander near the end (directly above left hand Cortina mirror) because of dirt on the track or was it really there ? (a big old bent branchless tree hung over the track there in 37).

Is that pretty much the original track the car is parked on also ?

I will have a movie ready of a lap in a GP Benz at what I have created so far in a few days.

#35 David Beard

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Posted 13 January 2003 - 17:35

Originally posted by Mark Beckman
David, thank you, you have given me some details that I hadnt seen before for the recreation of the old track.

Do you have more shots ?

Is that a kink in Kramer right hander near the end (directly above left hand Cortina mirror) because of dirt on the track or was it really there ? (a big old bent branchless tree hung over the track there in 37).

Is that pretty much the original track the car is parked on also ?

I will have a movie ready of a lap in a GP Benz at what I have created so far in a few days.

I'm afraid you're taxing me a little here Mark...I have no more photos and can only make interpretations of the photos the same way as you. It's a long time ago : I can't remember much about any remnants of the old track at all....except that I know they used to race through an arch of that stone bridge. :eek:

Can anyone produce pics of the old track in the same places for comparison?

#36 TODave2

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Posted 13 January 2003 - 18:57

Sorry for turning the thread into a discussion about the car rather than the circuit!

(although I secretly blame Vitesse2...

)

#37 David Beard

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Posted 13 January 2003 - 19:02

Originally posted by TODave2
Sorry for turning the thread into a discussion about the car rather than the circuit!

(although I secretly blame Vitesse2... )

It was fine by me. At least you didn't mention cricket :lol:

#38 David Beard

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Posted 21 January 2003 - 12:42

Originally posted by Tim Murray
For what it's worth, in May 1975 (I'm positive about the date) I visited the Donington collection and walked round the track. My recollection is that at this time the track was in a much less advanced state than the pictures show. I don't have any photos, unfortunately.

Apologies to those of you who might be bored with this one by now, but I have just heard from the Cortina driver. He tells me it must be before "mid 1974", because that's when he wrote the car off! That fits with my recollection of the date.

#39 Tim Murray

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Posted 21 January 2003 - 14:28

I sit corrected!

(Can' t trust my memory these days). I could have sworn there was no kerbing etc when I was there.

#40 Marcel Schot

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Posted 21 January 2003 - 14:40

Originally posted by Racer.Demon

In Holland we have a license plate system that has worked for over five decades. The first letter always gives away the registration date of the car. Vowels and Cs aren't used since 1978, Bs and Vs are for trucks and buses, Ms are for motorcycles, AA is for the royal family!

Q's aren't used either, since they resemble 0 too much. And I think some K series of two letters are used for Army vehicles only.

#41 2F-001

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Posted 21 January 2003 - 17:15

Q does (or did) get used here in the UK though - for some classes of personal import, and for home-builds (kit cars and specials and the like with some content of non-new components - and formerly even if using all new bits you could go for a Q and avoid a big chunk of tax).

#42 IanDalziel

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Posted 23 January 2003 - 23:47

Originally posted by David Beard

And the Lola GT

I was convinced I took these photos in late 73 or 74.
Have no more of them, sorry.

I drove round when the circuit was in pretty much that state, and I think it was 1973 or 1974, soon after the collection opened.

#43 Manson

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Posted 24 January 2003 - 18:07

From the first pic, I thought it was the esses at Road Atlanta. :blush:

#44 Adam F

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Posted 12 December 2005 - 15:39

At the recent TNF Northern England get-together, David Beard encouraged me to post my photos of Donington under construction...........(c 1975, definitely winter!)

Looking back up the Pits Straight from Redgate

Looking back towards Redgate, with Hollywood on the right

Looking back down from Starkeys Bridge, accross the Old Hairpin and up Craner Curves

Looking up to the Old Bridge

Looking up the hill from the Old Bridge, towards McLean's

Looking from McLean's down the straight to Coppice

Entering the new Coppice Corner, with the farm buildings (soon to be the circuit offices) ahead.

Exiting Coppice, with the new museum buildings visible ahead.

The beginning of Starkey's Straight

Further down Starkey's Straight (? near the Exhibition Centre)

And finally......

A Ford P68 3 litre outside the Museum entrance on the same day. (sorry for the fuzzy picture)

#45 Paul Butler

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Posted 12 December 2005 - 15:54

Originally posted by David Beard

And the Lola GT

I was convinced I took these photos in late 73 or 74.
Have no more of them, sorry.

I'd say it was 74. I was taken to the circuit in 1974 by my then Physics Master (a grand chap called Howard Stockley) as a "treat" after finishing 'O' levels (them were the days). Howard had been amazed that a 15 year old could have a discussion with him about Dick Seaman so organised the trip. We went round the museum (where I saw the W125 in the flesh for the first time

) and then walked the circuit and it looked exactly as the photos.

Nice to see them!

#46 Gary C

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Posted 12 December 2005 - 16:11

those are great photos, Adam ! Would have been REALLY nice to have seen some 'before' shots too!

#47 MCS

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Posted 12 December 2005 - 21:34

Great stuff - I hadn't seen this thread before.

Reminds me of an edition of "Wheelbase" on BBC2 - also see Top Gear thread!

Who remembers a short piece on the construction work starting at Donington on Wheelbase?

I remember it quite vividly because Roger Williamson drove his Formula Two GRD 273 around a short section of the partly completed track. That must have been either early 1973 (likely) or perhaps very late 1972.

But which section of the circuit was used?

I always thought it was the Melbourne loop - in place very early, for reasons I've never quite understood. Was Tom Wheatcroft planning to use the part of the circuit for testing purposes I wonder?

#48 RS2000

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Posted 12 December 2005 - 21:53

It was used as a Special Stage on the 1972 RAC Rally in that November. As far as I know, no new surfaces had been laid at that time - but I didn't see it first hand, only waiting in a service car just outside the gate in the dark.

#49 macoran

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Posted 12 December 2005 - 22:36

euhm ...... maybe I am just being nasty but do we have a system in holland demon ??
seems like they invent something new anytime they have to have an excuse for a tax
increase ?

and.... I don't write holland without a capitol 4 nuthing

#50 David McKinney

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Posted 12 December 2005 - 22:50

Originally posted by MCS

I always thought it was the Melbourne loop - in place very early, for reasons I've never quite understood.

Presumably because it was already there, before the postwar circuit was built

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A very slow lap...

#1 David Beard

#2 Vitesse2

#3 Allen Brown

#4 David Beard

#5 David Beard

#6 MichaelJP

#7 TODave2

#8 Vitesse2

#9 Vitesse2

#10 David Beard

#11 TODave2

#12 petefenelon

#13 Tim Murray

#14 LB

#15 Ray Bell

#16 Vitesse2

#17 David Beard

#18 Ray Bell

#19 ian senior

#20 Rob29

#21 BRG

#22 Racer.Demon

#23 mikedeering

#24 Vitesse2

#25 dmj

#26 Ray Bell

#27 byrkus

#28 Breadmaster

#29 Ray Bell

#30 Mark A

#31 Ray Bell

#32 byrkus

#33 Ray Bell

#34 Mark Beckman

#35 David Beard

#36 TODave2

#37 David Beard

#38 David Beard

#39 Tim Murray

#40 Marcel Schot

#41 2F-001

#42 IanDalziel

#43 Manson

#44 Adam F

#45 Paul Butler

#46 Gary C

#47 MCS

#48 RS2000

#49 macoran

#50 David McKinney

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