Members of the Nostalgia Forum community are generally very sharp-eyed sorts and are devoted to the goal of being as accurate as possible in all things automotive and historical. Therefore, I have decided to provide for a trial run a thread devoted to "corrections & clarifications" of items which appear in the media. All I ask is that you be brief and as concise as possible (a daunting task for anyone on this forum) as to the item(s) being corrected.
TNF Gazette: errata, corrections & clarifications
Started by
Don Capps
, Jul 22 2003 21:14
137 replies to this topic
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#2
Don Capps
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Posted 24 July 2003 - 16:42
From our very own Atlas News Service:
The author obviously meant that Silverstone was the host to the very first round of the new World Drivers' Championship created by the CSI. "Formula One" had been around a few seasons prior to this event -- 1947 or 1948, take your choice.
This is an example of how the terms shift around over time, "Formula One" now having an entirely different meaning today than it did at the time they all showed up at the rather barren airfield circuit in Mid-May 1950.
Analysis: What Hope for the British Grand Prix? Thursday July 24th, 2003 By Alan Baldwin [b]Britain hosted the first Formula One race in 1950 and has been on the Championship calendar ever since. [/b]
The author obviously meant that Silverstone was the host to the very first round of the new World Drivers' Championship created by the CSI. "Formula One" had been around a few seasons prior to this event -- 1947 or 1948, take your choice.
This is an example of how the terms shift around over time, "Formula One" now having an entirely different meaning today than it did at the time they all showed up at the rather barren airfield circuit in Mid-May 1950.
#3
bira
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Posted 24 July 2003 - 23:24
Please post about errors found on Atlas F1 in this thread. In any event, the above has already been fixed.
Thanks
Thanks
#4
cabianca
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Posted 25 July 2003 - 01:34
When Briggs Cunningham recently died, the media seem to have run to his widow or some family member, who provided the following incorrect information. This was printed in most of the obituaries printed in US newspapers.
"Cunningham was the founder of the ARCA and SCCA." These two organizations were sanctioning bodies for US road racing, the ARCA in the 1930s and the SCCA after WWII. Although Briggs was involved with both, he was a founder of neither.
"Cunningham was the first American to race at Le Mans." This is ridiculous. Cunninghham didn't race at Le Mans until the 1950s. Americans had raced at Le Mans before WWII.
"Cunningham won races at Torrey Pines and Del Mar." Not only did Cunningham not win races at these California courses, but neither he, nor any Cunningham cars, were ever entered there.
"Cunningham was quoted about Le Mans, 'They started the race at midnight, so I don't see how they thought you could get any rest.'" This quote was obviously referring to the Rheims 12 Hours, since Le Mans has always started at 16:00 hrs.
"Cunningham had the America's Cup defender Columbia built and used the boat in the successful 1958 defense." America's Cup boats are built by syndicates. Of course Briggs was a member of the syndicate that had the Columbia built, but he hardly financed it himself. He wasn't even the first choice as skipper. He only took over when the original skipper, Cornelius Shields, had a heart attack during the trials.
This is all especially galling because future researchers wil look up these obituaries and pick up and reprint the incorrect information.
"Cunningham was the founder of the ARCA and SCCA." These two organizations were sanctioning bodies for US road racing, the ARCA in the 1930s and the SCCA after WWII. Although Briggs was involved with both, he was a founder of neither.
"Cunningham was the first American to race at Le Mans." This is ridiculous. Cunninghham didn't race at Le Mans until the 1950s. Americans had raced at Le Mans before WWII.
"Cunningham won races at Torrey Pines and Del Mar." Not only did Cunningham not win races at these California courses, but neither he, nor any Cunningham cars, were ever entered there.
"Cunningham was quoted about Le Mans, 'They started the race at midnight, so I don't see how they thought you could get any rest.'" This quote was obviously referring to the Rheims 12 Hours, since Le Mans has always started at 16:00 hrs.
"Cunningham had the America's Cup defender Columbia built and used the boat in the successful 1958 defense." America's Cup boats are built by syndicates. Of course Briggs was a member of the syndicate that had the Columbia built, but he hardly financed it himself. He wasn't even the first choice as skipper. He only took over when the original skipper, Cornelius Shields, had a heart attack during the trials.
This is all especially galling because future researchers wil look up these obituaries and pick up and reprint the incorrect information.
#5
Jim Thurman
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Posted 25 July 2003 - 20:54
Originally posted by cabianca
When Briggs Cunningham recently died, the media seem to have run to his widow or some family member, who provided the following incorrect information. This was printed in most of the obituaries printed in US newspapers.
This is all especially galling because future researchers wil look up these obituaries and pick up and reprint the incorrect information.
Which is precisely why we, as racing historians, should stay with it and contact the sources of this material...
Associated Press has a contact page (hmmm, interesting, I couldn't find the "corrections" link they had before...)
http://www.ap.org/pa...ay_contact.html
Jim Thurman
#6
Ray Bell
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Posted 25 July 2003 - 20:56
Originally posted by cabianca
.....This quote was obviously referring to the Rheims 12 Hours, since Le Mans has always started at 16:00 hrs.....
Except in election years... 14:00 becoming the start time then, though I think this may have been variable as well.
#7
Vitesse2
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Posted 25 July 2003 - 21:05
Originally posted by Ray Bell
Except in election years... 14:00 becoming the start time then, though I think this may have been variable as well.
... and 1968,when the race was held in September
But we're just being pedantic here Ray: I think we can safely say that the normal starting time was 16:00. It certainly wasn't midnight.
#8
Ray Bell
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Posted 25 July 2003 - 23:56
Certainly, Speedy One, but cabianca actually wrote always at 16:00...
And if there was ever a thread for being pedantic... well, you know what I mean.
And if there was ever a thread for being pedantic... well, you know what I mean.
#9
marat
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Posted 26 July 2003 - 07:31
Maybe Cabianca wanted to say that when Cunningham raced there, it always started at 16:00.
One can be happy that it was not written somewhere that Cunningham won Le Mans, because
they won their class (more than 5 l), something current nowadays.
One can be happy that it was not written somewhere that Cunningham won Le Mans, because
they won their class (more than 5 l), something current nowadays.
#10
Barry Boor
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Posted 30 July 2003 - 19:38
May I respectfully ask if picking up on glaring errors in books is suitable for mention on this thread?
#11
David McKinney
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Posted 30 July 2003 - 20:55
Depends who the authors are 
#12
Ray Bell
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Posted 30 July 2003 - 23:10
Originally posted by Barry Boor
May I respectfully ask if picking up on glaring errors in books is suitable for mention on this thread?
If you want this thread to outstrip the 'Famous Amon' thread, sure...
I have a list here of about 45 errors in the Snowdon book, all errors by Tuckey of course.
And as of last week, we know for sure that A V Turner didn't crash at Manly at all...
#13
Vitesse2
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Posted 30 July 2003 - 23:47
And I could contribute reams from Pritchard's Maserati: a History. On the subject of Pritchard and Maserati, has anyone yet read his new Haynes title? I hesitate to shell out £35 if it perpetuates the previous errors. It would really be a pity if it does, as the two previous books in the series by Venables on Alfa and Bugatti are pretty good.
#14
Don Capps
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Posted 31 July 2003 - 00:01
Originally posted by Barry Boor
May I respectfully ask if picking up on glaring errors in books is suitable for mention on this thread?
Most definitely, Yes!
#15
petefenelon
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Posted 31 July 2003 - 00:28
Originally posted by Don Capps
Most definitely, Yes!
Oooh, so the spec sheet on p51 of Peter Morgan's "Porsche in Motorsport: The First 50 Years" where the 804 F1 has a 1587cc engine is fair game?
#16
David McKinney
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Posted 31 July 2003 - 05:08
I had a glance at a copy at Goodwood and, yes, it repeats the 250F errors from his previous booksOriginally posted by Vitesse2
And I could contribute reams from Pritchard's Maserati: a History. On the subject of Pritchard and Maserati, has anyone yet read his new Haynes title? I hesitate to shell out £35 if it perpetuates the previous errors. It would really be a pity if it does, as the two previous books in the series by Venables on Alfa and Bugatti are pretty good.
#17
Jim Thurman
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Posted 31 July 2003 - 05:23
How about errors in newspapers and on television...
Almost any given week will fill this thread to near breaking point
Jim Thurman
Almost any given week will fill this thread to near breaking point
Jim Thurman
#18
Don Capps
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Posted 31 July 2003 - 13:42
Originally posted by Jim Thurman
How about errors in newspapers and on television...
Almost any given week will fill this thread to near breaking point
Jim Thurman
Well, it is a dirty job, but it has to be done and TNF is as good an "agency" as any other.
#19
Barry Boor
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Posted 01 August 2003 - 06:48
I must confess that posting this message makes me feel slightly disloyal. I am just getting around to reading 'Castellotti - A Stolen Heart' by Cesare de Agostini. This is a book clearly written from the heart rather than the head.
The text is obviously translated from the original Italian and as such, some of the sentence construction and description is, to English eyes, both odd and overly flowery.
However, in this thread we are dealing in facts; and this book is somewhat lacking in those. Well, the correct version, anyway.
If I may quote 2 passages.
Speaking of the arrival of the D.50 Lancia in F.1 racing....
"The car is immediately competitive and soon adapts itself to fast tracks instilling fear into Mercedes, who decide to stop their Grand Prix racing."
Of the Monaco Grand Prix 1955...
"About 20 corners from the end, the engine of Moss' Mercedes gives up the ghost in a cloud of smoke..."
Presumably the translator of the second quote meant laps not corners - proof reading error, but the first sentence is clear enough. It surprises me to learn that the D.50 so frightened Mercedes that they immediately decided to withdraw from racing. In fact, I think that is plain wrong.
I have not yet finished the book and much though I am enjoying learning about a driver for whom I have always had great regard, I wish I was reading something that was more factually accurate. Who knows how many other things I have read and absorbed without realising I was reading an incorrect piece of information?
The pictures are excellent, by the way.
The text is obviously translated from the original Italian and as such, some of the sentence construction and description is, to English eyes, both odd and overly flowery.
However, in this thread we are dealing in facts; and this book is somewhat lacking in those. Well, the correct version, anyway.
If I may quote 2 passages.
Speaking of the arrival of the D.50 Lancia in F.1 racing....
"The car is immediately competitive and soon adapts itself to fast tracks instilling fear into Mercedes, who decide to stop their Grand Prix racing."
Of the Monaco Grand Prix 1955...
"About 20 corners from the end, the engine of Moss' Mercedes gives up the ghost in a cloud of smoke..."
Presumably the translator of the second quote meant laps not corners - proof reading error, but the first sentence is clear enough. It surprises me to learn that the D.50 so frightened Mercedes that they immediately decided to withdraw from racing. In fact, I think that is plain wrong.
I have not yet finished the book and much though I am enjoying learning about a driver for whom I have always had great regard, I wish I was reading something that was more factually accurate. Who knows how many other things I have read and absorbed without realising I was reading an incorrect piece of information?
The pictures are excellent, by the way.
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#20
Ray Bell
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Posted 01 August 2003 - 08:00
Good thing the camera never lies, Barry...
further to my comment about the Nigel Snowon/Bill Tuckey book The Ultimate Excitement, here is a list of errors in the captions. Nigel, of course, did nothing wrong...
P 6... Beechey and Geoghegan are in Bosch Corner, therefore not heading up to Craven A
P15... Type 400, not Type 40 Elfin... a typo
P32... Bandini is said to have raced in Australia in the 1962 'Tasman series'
P34... Matich in the 19B, which wasn't ex-Moss (the 19 was, however) and had a 2.6 engine, not a 2.7
P38... Caption begins with the words "The first of the many:" but nothing indicates many what. The pic is Clark in the 25.
P40... It's Ian Geoghegan in the Cortina, not Leo
P42... It's Leo Geoghegan in the Cortina, not Ian!
P43... Ray Stevens is actually Bob Stevens, clearly signwritten on the car
P48... Don't know how I know this, but it's not the 'Ant Hill' at Lakeside
P78 & P33... the two Rindt/Cooper captions are at odds with each other
P79... Leo Geoghegan's Lotus was not sold to New Zealand (went to Alton Boddenberg)
P93... statement about Elfin Monos was patently wrong
P100.. Dan Gurney is said to have run out of petrol at Spa in 1964
P102.. Bib Stillwell is said to have had no major accidents. According to John Medley, he touched wheels with Alec Mildren at Bathurst in 1958 and 'somersaulted several times'
P104.. some extreme exaggeration about Leo Geoghegan's Tasman performance
P110.. similar about John Harvey's prospects for a GP seat
P114.. Caption says that the 'Cobra changed the face of sports car racing' while a caption on P16 says that Bruce McLaren 'started it all'
P132.. Pictures of McDonald and Harvey transposed
Some of these might seem a little nit-picky, but I feel they were misleading if not factually wrong.
John Medley has my admiration for what he did with his Bathurst book, but in it he has made the error of spelling Ray Wamsley's surname as Walmsley. I know there are other errors, as does John (he told me one night that he had many calls on the subject and was making a list should the book be reprinted).
further to my comment about the Nigel Snowon/Bill Tuckey book The Ultimate Excitement, here is a list of errors in the captions. Nigel, of course, did nothing wrong...
P 6... Beechey and Geoghegan are in Bosch Corner, therefore not heading up to Craven A
P15... Type 400, not Type 40 Elfin... a typo
P32... Bandini is said to have raced in Australia in the 1962 'Tasman series'
P34... Matich in the 19B, which wasn't ex-Moss (the 19 was, however) and had a 2.6 engine, not a 2.7
P38... Caption begins with the words "The first of the many:" but nothing indicates many what. The pic is Clark in the 25.
P40... It's Ian Geoghegan in the Cortina, not Leo
P42... It's Leo Geoghegan in the Cortina, not Ian!
P43... Ray Stevens is actually Bob Stevens, clearly signwritten on the car
P48... Don't know how I know this, but it's not the 'Ant Hill' at Lakeside
P78 & P33... the two Rindt/Cooper captions are at odds with each other
P79... Leo Geoghegan's Lotus was not sold to New Zealand (went to Alton Boddenberg)
P93... statement about Elfin Monos was patently wrong
P100.. Dan Gurney is said to have run out of petrol at Spa in 1964
P102.. Bib Stillwell is said to have had no major accidents. According to John Medley, he touched wheels with Alec Mildren at Bathurst in 1958 and 'somersaulted several times'
P104.. some extreme exaggeration about Leo Geoghegan's Tasman performance
P110.. similar about John Harvey's prospects for a GP seat
P114.. Caption says that the 'Cobra changed the face of sports car racing' while a caption on P16 says that Bruce McLaren 'started it all'
P132.. Pictures of McDonald and Harvey transposed
Some of these might seem a little nit-picky, but I feel they were misleading if not factually wrong.
John Medley has my admiration for what he did with his Bathurst book, but in it he has made the error of spelling Ray Wamsley's surname as Walmsley. I know there are other errors, as does John (he told me one night that he had many calls on the subject and was making a list should the book be reprinted).
#21
Barry Boor
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Posted 02 August 2003 - 11:06
Those outside the U.K. may not be aware of what we in Britain fairly accurately call our 'Gutter Press'. One of the newspapers is called The Sun.
They always produce quite a decent size feature on the Saturday of each Grand Prix.
Here is a clip from today's issue, the day before the Hockenheim race...
They always produce quite a decent size feature on the Saturday of each Grand Prix.
Here is a clip from today's issue, the day before the Hockenheim race...
#22
marat
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Posted 02 August 2003 - 13:30
New "Maserati 250F" book:
caption error page 108: not Godia in car 36 but Phil Hill.
Can be admitted in a book featuring so many photographs.
caption error page 108: not Godia in car 36 but Phil Hill.
Can be admitted in a book featuring so many photographs.
#23
Darren Galpin
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Posted 04 August 2003 - 07:15
That Sun howler still isn't as good as the one by the Daily Mirror back in 1996. It had a picture of Damon Hill's Williams, and had a label saying "Engine", with an arrow pointing to the nose of the car!
#24
Falcadore
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Posted 04 August 2003 - 15:17
My personal fave, the list of almost 40 factual errors from the driver profile section of the 2000 Bathurst 1000 Official Programme.
This is cut 'n' paste from the letter I sent the editor, the response I got basically said go away and don't be so pedantic. Subtly mind you but the message was there.
Factual mistakes from Bathurst program.
Mark Skaife debuted at Bathurst in 1986 co-driving with Peter Williamson in a Toyota Supra, however the car was badly damaged in practice, and did not race. 1987 is factually correct.
Glenn Seton’s best finish of second at Bathurst was in a Nissan Skyline with John Bowe. Not a Ford Sierra.
Neil Crompton did not win the Bathurst 12 Hour three times from 1992-1994. In 1992 he finished 14th in a Peugeot 405, and second in class. He did not even compete in 1993. He did win in 1994.
Neil Crompton has finished third at Bathurst twice. 1995 with Wayne Gardner in a Commodore, and in 1992 in a Nissan GT-R with Anders Olofsson.
Neil Cromtpon did not race in the inaugural North American Touring Car Championship. The inaugural championship was held in 1996, without Crompton.
(Within Steven Richards section) Garry Rogers Super Touring team started in 1995, not 1996.
Alain Menu is not the former British Touring Car Champion. He is the current British Touring Car Champion. In addition to his 1997 title, he also won this years title.
(Within Larry Perkins section) Peter Janson is not spelt Jansen.
Russell Ingall did not win the British Formula Ford Championship in 1991. He was second in 1991. He won it in 1993.
Steven Johnson did not win his class in the 1991 Bathurst 12 Hour. He didn’t start racing (in a Sports Sedan) until 1992.
Cameron McLean’s best Bathurst result of 4th in 1998 was achieved in a BMW 320i, not a Volvo S40.
Jason Bargwanna’s debut Bathurst was in 1990 in a Holden Commodore with Brian Callaghan Junior and John Gerwald. Not in 1992 in a Corolla with Scott Bargwanna.
Jim Richards Bathurst debut in 1974 with Rod Coppins was in a Holden Torana, not a Ford Falcon.
Jim Richards did not win the 1989 Shell Australian Touring Car Championship.
Simon Wills Bathurst debut was 1998, not 1999.
Wayne Gardner has finished 3rd at Bathurst twice, both in Holden Commodores, with Brad Jones in 1993, and with Neil Cormpton in 1997.
Terry Finnigan’s Bathurst debut was 1973. His best result of 8th in 1991 in a Holden Commodore was with Geoff Leeds.
Todd Kelly’s best finish of 6th in 1999 was with Mark Noske, not John Faulkner.
Nathan Pretty’s best results was 21st in 1999, not 20th.
Andrew Miedecke’s Bathurst debut was in 1986, and his best finish a 3rd in 1997 in a Ford Falcon with Mark Larkham.
Brad Jones has had 18 previous starts, not 15.
Brad Jones finished 2nd twice, 1994 in a Holden Commodore with Craig Lowndes, and in 1997 in an Audi A4 with Frank Biela.
Rick Bates best finish at Bathurst is 24th with brother Neal in 1992.
Rick Bates did not win the London-Sydney Marathon.
Geoff Full debuted at Bathurst in 1989.
Geoff Full has finished 12th twice, in 1991 in a Toyota Sprinter with Paul Morris, and in 1999 with Rodney Forbes in a Holden Commodore.
As Philip Scifleet is debuting Bathurst this year, he could not have finished 12th in 1999.
David ‘Skippy’ Parsons debuted at Bathurst in 1982.
Parsons’ best result was of course a win in 1987 with Peter Brock and Peter McLeod in a Holden Commodore.
John Cleland’s best finish at Bathurst was a 6th in 1995 with Tony Scott in a Commodore. Not a 7th in 1996.
Matt Neal’s debut at Bathurst was in 1997, not 1998.
Steven Ellery’s best Bathurst finish was a 3rd in 1996, in a Ford Falcon with Tony Longhurst, not a Sierra with Gary Gosatti.
Greg Crick’s Bathurst debut was in 1985 in an Alfa Romeo Alfetta, although the car did not make it through practice.
Michael Donaher’s Bathurst debut was in 1991.
Adam Wallis is not spelt Wallace. Refer his name clearly printed on the photograph of the car.
This is cut 'n' paste from the letter I sent the editor, the response I got basically said go away and don't be so pedantic. Subtly mind you but the message was there.
Factual mistakes from Bathurst program.
Mark Skaife debuted at Bathurst in 1986 co-driving with Peter Williamson in a Toyota Supra, however the car was badly damaged in practice, and did not race. 1987 is factually correct.
Glenn Seton’s best finish of second at Bathurst was in a Nissan Skyline with John Bowe. Not a Ford Sierra.
Neil Crompton did not win the Bathurst 12 Hour three times from 1992-1994. In 1992 he finished 14th in a Peugeot 405, and second in class. He did not even compete in 1993. He did win in 1994.
Neil Crompton has finished third at Bathurst twice. 1995 with Wayne Gardner in a Commodore, and in 1992 in a Nissan GT-R with Anders Olofsson.
Neil Cromtpon did not race in the inaugural North American Touring Car Championship. The inaugural championship was held in 1996, without Crompton.
(Within Steven Richards section) Garry Rogers Super Touring team started in 1995, not 1996.
Alain Menu is not the former British Touring Car Champion. He is the current British Touring Car Champion. In addition to his 1997 title, he also won this years title.
(Within Larry Perkins section) Peter Janson is not spelt Jansen.
Russell Ingall did not win the British Formula Ford Championship in 1991. He was second in 1991. He won it in 1993.
Steven Johnson did not win his class in the 1991 Bathurst 12 Hour. He didn’t start racing (in a Sports Sedan) until 1992.
Cameron McLean’s best Bathurst result of 4th in 1998 was achieved in a BMW 320i, not a Volvo S40.
Jason Bargwanna’s debut Bathurst was in 1990 in a Holden Commodore with Brian Callaghan Junior and John Gerwald. Not in 1992 in a Corolla with Scott Bargwanna.
Jim Richards Bathurst debut in 1974 with Rod Coppins was in a Holden Torana, not a Ford Falcon.
Jim Richards did not win the 1989 Shell Australian Touring Car Championship.
Simon Wills Bathurst debut was 1998, not 1999.
Wayne Gardner has finished 3rd at Bathurst twice, both in Holden Commodores, with Brad Jones in 1993, and with Neil Cormpton in 1997.
Terry Finnigan’s Bathurst debut was 1973. His best result of 8th in 1991 in a Holden Commodore was with Geoff Leeds.
Todd Kelly’s best finish of 6th in 1999 was with Mark Noske, not John Faulkner.
Nathan Pretty’s best results was 21st in 1999, not 20th.
Andrew Miedecke’s Bathurst debut was in 1986, and his best finish a 3rd in 1997 in a Ford Falcon with Mark Larkham.
Brad Jones has had 18 previous starts, not 15.
Brad Jones finished 2nd twice, 1994 in a Holden Commodore with Craig Lowndes, and in 1997 in an Audi A4 with Frank Biela.
Rick Bates best finish at Bathurst is 24th with brother Neal in 1992.
Rick Bates did not win the London-Sydney Marathon.
Geoff Full debuted at Bathurst in 1989.
Geoff Full has finished 12th twice, in 1991 in a Toyota Sprinter with Paul Morris, and in 1999 with Rodney Forbes in a Holden Commodore.
As Philip Scifleet is debuting Bathurst this year, he could not have finished 12th in 1999.
David ‘Skippy’ Parsons debuted at Bathurst in 1982.
Parsons’ best result was of course a win in 1987 with Peter Brock and Peter McLeod in a Holden Commodore.
John Cleland’s best finish at Bathurst was a 6th in 1995 with Tony Scott in a Commodore. Not a 7th in 1996.
Matt Neal’s debut at Bathurst was in 1997, not 1998.
Steven Ellery’s best Bathurst finish was a 3rd in 1996, in a Ford Falcon with Tony Longhurst, not a Sierra with Gary Gosatti.
Greg Crick’s Bathurst debut was in 1985 in an Alfa Romeo Alfetta, although the car did not make it through practice.
Michael Donaher’s Bathurst debut was in 1991.
Adam Wallis is not spelt Wallace. Refer his name clearly printed on the photograph of the car.
#25
Racer.Demon
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Posted 04 August 2003 - 21:34
Sometimes errors can be deceptively simple, utterly silly and yet quite nostalgic.
How about our Dutch TV commentator insisting that the Minardi debutant in last Sunday's race was in fact Andrea Chiesa...
How about our Dutch TV commentator insisting that the Minardi debutant in last Sunday's race was in fact Andrea Chiesa...
#26
Ray Bell
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Posted 04 August 2003 - 23:43
Originally posted by Falcadore
.....Terry Finnigan’s Bathurst debut was 1973.....
So what did they have in their version, Mark?
It might prove interesting for you to look at John Medley's post this morning...
#27
Jim Thurman
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Posted 05 August 2003 - 02:31
A good one last night on ESPN's SportsCenter.
The graphic showing 3rd place in the German Grand Prix read:
3rd Jarno Alonso
The graphic showing 3rd place in the German Grand Prix read:
3rd Jarno Alonso
#28
dmj
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Posted 05 August 2003 - 13:10
Adding to recent F1 name mix-ups, a Croatian commentator announced Pedro de la Zonta a few years ago...
#29
Falcadore
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Posted 05 August 2003 - 13:22
Originally posted by Ray Bell
So what did they have in their version, Mark?
It might prove interesting for you to look at John Medley's post this morning...
Yes and no. They had N/A. They had no idea. They probably had never heard of him before. It was produced by the Herald and Weekly Times, their first attempt at a Bathurst, or any major motorsport event program.
And as I have just said to John Medley, I was replying with the scope they had set with their other stats in the profiles. They made the task more enjoyable for me (I admit it) and harder for themselves, by selectively applying which drivers were in the two litre races. By using the Super Touring stats in one case, by their own scope they had to apply it to all. But they couldn't, because they had no idea what they were doing.
Some of the stats were considerably more howling. Neil Crompton winning three Bathurst 12 Hour events was my fave. Thats not a typo, a misintepretation or a mistake. Its just invented.
The editors were a pair of inhouse Melbourne base Herald types who did not contribute to the publication beyond their no doubt formidable editting abilities. They outsourced the articles to the Herald motoring writer, Paul Gover, and to ACP's senior motorsport writers, namely the senior staff from Auto Action. No author was creditted at any point for the driver profiles. Not suprising.
And Ray, I am aware of races existing that don't have rooves, and that some drivers raced open wheelers before touring cars. I love open wheelers. I specialize in tin top stuff, because a) I love them too, and b) there are far more clients available to me that way.
The moral of the story? Instead of the by tender money grab, get Chevron to do your event program.
#30
Falcadore
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Posted 05 August 2003 - 13:28
Originally posted by dmj
Adding to recent F1 name mix-ups, a Croatian commentator announced Pedro de la Zonta a few years ago...
Reminds me of a movie character I saw once called Memo Moreno....... don't laugh. I tried REALLY hard not to while watching said film. I failed.
#31
dolomite
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Posted 06 August 2003 - 22:59
Classic & Sportscar August 2003 has a picture on page 108 that purports to be of 'Stuart Turner, ex-head of Ford Motorsport', but which in actual fact bears a remarkable resemblance to Bill Boddy.....
#32
Don Capps
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Posted 08 August 2003 - 18:26
While there is this:
The inaugural Bud at the Glen in 1986 was won by Tim Richmond, but it wasn't the first NASCAR race at the historic road circuit in New York's Finger Lake region.
In 1957, Buck Baker won in a Chevrolet. In 1964, Billy Wade was victorious in a Mercrury, and a year later, Marvin Panch drove a Ford to the checkered flag.
....there is also this:
http://www.nascar.co...gi_winners.html
The inaugural Bud at the Glen in 1986 was won by Tim Richmond, but it wasn't the first NASCAR race at the historic road circuit in New York's Finger Lake region.
In 1957, Buck Baker won in a Chevrolet. In 1964, Billy Wade was victorious in a Mercrury, and a year later, Marvin Panch drove a Ford to the checkered flag.
....there is also this:
http://www.nascar.co...gi_winners.html
#33
Vitesse2
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Posted 08 August 2003 - 20:49
Er, to be fair to NASCAR, Don, it does say "since the beginning of the modern era in 1971."
#34
Falcadore
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Posted 12 August 2003 - 14:04
This one was quite funny. Errors of ommission perhaps? Or poor research.
Channel 9 news tonight reported that two of Australias most famous motorsport names would be joined, namely Johnson and Brabham.
Dick Johnson Racing had just announced the signing of David Brabham. They went on to say that Brabham had finished fourth in 1993. The funny thing was, the file footage they used of David Brabham, which wasn't any of his Formula One or Sportscar car success, but was of David Brabham at Bathurst in 1997. A race he WON.
My question, surely winning the race in 1997 was more noteworthy than finishing fourth in 1993?
Channel 9 news tonight reported that two of Australias most famous motorsport names would be joined, namely Johnson and Brabham.
Dick Johnson Racing had just announced the signing of David Brabham. They went on to say that Brabham had finished fourth in 1993. The funny thing was, the file footage they used of David Brabham, which wasn't any of his Formula One or Sportscar car success, but was of David Brabham at Bathurst in 1997. A race he WON.
My question, surely winning the race in 1997 was more noteworthy than finishing fourth in 1993?
#35
Ray Bell
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Posted 12 August 2003 - 14:48
Now just to get things in perspective...
Was the 1997 win with a car of rather less than five litres capacity?
Was the 1997 win with a car of rather less than five litres capacity?
#36
Don Capps
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Posted 12 August 2003 - 14:54
Originally posted by Vitesse2
Er, to be fair to NASCAR, Don, it does say "since the beginning of the modern era in 1971."
I have bounced brickbats off their pointy little heads over that "qualification" more than a few times, but the addiction to the money of R.J. Reynolds held much more sway than any consideration of accuracy to the historical record. However, a few have been quietly working in the background to see what they can do to ensure that the Record is a bit more accurate.
Oh, the NASCAR gents raced in the rain at Road America once upon a time, BUT since that was prior to 1971 it is not a consideration.
I wonder when F1 will begin using the onset of its Modern Era, 1981, to adjust the records.....
#37
petefenelon
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Posted 12 August 2003 - 15:33
Originally posted by Don Capps
I wonder when F1 will begin using the onset of its Modern Era, 1981, to adjust the records.....
"Year Zero", isn't it?
Unfortunately for most of the modern casual fans, Year Zero is 1994 - "modern" F1 started with the TV aftermath of Senna's death.
#38
Racer.Demon
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Posted 12 August 2003 - 15:49
If the aim would indeed be to "adjust the records" then I hope that 2003 is the start of F1's Modern Era! 
Perish the thought of, say, 1922, 1937 or 1953 "adjusted" to 17 World Championship Grands Prix and points for the first eight finishers... :
Perish the thought of, say, 1922, 1937 or 1953 "adjusted" to 17 World Championship Grands Prix and points for the first eight finishers... :
#39
Falcadore
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Posted 12 August 2003 - 16:04
Originally posted by Ray Bell
Now just to get things in perspective...
Was the 1997 win with a car of rather less than five litres capacity?
Who won the Rugby League premiership in the year of the Super League split?
What was the capacity of the 1966 winner?
Since they used footage of that race to promote Brabham's presence they obviously had no idea what the tape they were playing was. If the '93 race was more significant, why not run tape footage of that race?
Their error was what I was referring to, not the interpretation. I'll happily debate the merits of the various races in a more appropriate thread.
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#40
fines
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Posted 12 August 2003 - 16:20
Two small corrections on my latest, cherished acquisition, Gary Doyle's King of the Boards:
p161, pic 4.79 this is Murphy at Fresno alright, but October 1921, not April 1922! Behind in #12 Frontenac are driver Alton Soules and mechanic Harry Banner, who were both killed during that race!
p284, pic 8.14 Doyle speculates if the old car is the 1919 Meteor, but it clearly is a "drop-frame" Duesenberg or, more precisley, a Mason. Duesenberg built only straight-frame cars from 1915 onwards (except for the "double-8" record car, of course!).
p161, pic 4.79 this is Murphy at Fresno alright, but October 1921, not April 1922! Behind in #12 Frontenac are driver Alton Soules and mechanic Harry Banner, who were both killed during that race!
p284, pic 8.14 Doyle speculates if the old car is the 1919 Meteor, but it clearly is a "drop-frame" Duesenberg or, more precisley, a Mason. Duesenberg built only straight-frame cars from 1915 onwards (except for the "double-8" record car, of course!).
#41
fines
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Posted 14 August 2003 - 17:51
Having said that, I do have another complaint ;) - on page 97, he says about two small holes in the front of the Duesenberg LSR car:Originally posted by fines
I bought the remaindered "Gurney's Eagles" at the Ring last weekend.
The plan was to go there with four bottles of water (1.5 litres each), drink them, sweat it out on the grandstand and bring home the lost weight in books. I failed... to take into account the effect the scorching weather had on my skin! I went home early (looking like a bicycle racer! Red arms and legs, white body...), with one bottle still "uncorked" - but compensated for that fact by bringing home more than 8 kgs of books!!! http://members.atlas...ics/jumping.bmp
Apart from the Gurney book, I got "The Prince and I" (also remaindered), the Monkhouse M-B bible (in German), Venables "Racing 1500s", "our" David's 250F book, a "Unique Motor Books" title, a german car encyclopedia and Gary Doyle's Murphy biog.
The latter book is the one I spend most time with at the moment, and it's absolutely fabulous!
refering to an earlier quote (by Duesenberg chief engineer William Beckman) about an adjustable panel on the underside of the car.There is no reason for them other than what Beckman says about the adjustable front end.
This is a case of missing the obvious: the holes are, of course, for cranking the two engines into life!
#42
Darren Galpin
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Posted 18 August 2003 - 07:11
I think that there is an error in Autosport, July 31st edition, pg 10. It claims that the new airport circuit in Puerto Rico will be the first motor race circuit there. This isn't true - the Antilles Auto Racing Circuit in Caguas was used for the Grand Prix de Puerto Rico from the 2nd-12th November 1962.
#43
Darren Galpin
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Posted 19 August 2003 - 06:56
Autosport, 14th August 2003 edition, pg 74. Grand-Am Watkins Glen race - should be round 9/12, not 6/9.
#44
Rob29
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Posted 20 August 2003 - 13:00
From to-days Motorsport News; A report of last weekend's Pheonix Park meeting headed by a diagram of MONDELLO Park circuit!
#45
Alan Lewis
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Posted 29 August 2003 - 19:53
I wasn't going to contribute to this thread, on the grounds that everyone makes mistakes and it's not fair, but Autosport have such a good one this week, dammit :
Commenting on Warren Hughes' win for MG at the British Touring Car meeting at Brands Hatch, Nick Phillips writes...
"Race one had its moments, too, although the win went deservedly to Hughes. "It was perfect timing," said Mark, who admitted that his season to date has been difficult..."
Mark Hughes is, of course, Warren's brother...and Autosport Grand Prix Editor...
APL
Commenting on Warren Hughes' win for MG at the British Touring Car meeting at Brands Hatch, Nick Phillips writes...
"Race one had its moments, too, although the win went deservedly to Hughes. "It was perfect timing," said Mark, who admitted that his season to date has been difficult..."
Mark Hughes is, of course, Warren's brother...and Autosport Grand Prix Editor...
APL
#46
Vitesse2
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Posted 29 August 2003 - 22:16
From Octane magazine, issue 4, in an article on the Ford GT40:
"In 1967 the GT's tag of £7495 spent at the same dealership would net you five Escort estates, three Cortinas and a Corsair 2000"
The Ford Escort wasn't introduced until 1968 ...
"In 1967 the GT's tag of £7495 spent at the same dealership would net you five Escort estates, three Cortinas and a Corsair 2000"
The Ford Escort wasn't introduced until 1968 ...
#47
dmj
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Posted 29 August 2003 - 23:00
In the same manner Dr. Sid Watkins in his book states how he rushed from Monza to a hospital where Ronnie Peterson was transfered, in a rented Fiat Panda... Of course, Peterson accident was two years before introduction of Panda...
#48
Rob29
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Posted 30 August 2003 - 07:42
I don't think that is the point Alan. These errors sometimes get copied and accepted as 'true' facts.Also in this weeks ever diminishing Autosport race reports,several races at last weekends Montreal meeting,are headed 'Road America'Originally posted by Alan Lewis
I wasn't going to contribute to this thread, on the grounds that everyone makes mistakes and it's not fair,
My favouite was many years ago when Autosport did a fictional race report-as a bit of Xmas fun.I later found it listed as an actual event in a book with a list of recent race results!
#49
marat
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Posted 30 August 2003 - 12:58
In the september issue of "Automobile Historique", among other articles there is a story of Harry
Schell.
There are not less than eleven photographs of Harry during the 1957 season.
Three of them show him at Monaco. Unfortunately, all where taken during practice and none
of them show Harry. Photos are LAT. Second problem is, wrong captions come from LAT.
But one photo is interesting as it shows Hans Herrmann practising Scarlatti's car (caption says
Shell having taken over Scarlatti's car after his retirement).
Schell.
There are not less than eleven photographs of Harry during the 1957 season.
Three of them show him at Monaco. Unfortunately, all where taken during practice and none
of them show Harry. Photos are LAT. Second problem is, wrong captions come from LAT.
But one photo is interesting as it shows Hans Herrmann practising Scarlatti's car (caption says
Shell having taken over Scarlatti's car after his retirement).
#50
Darren Galpin
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Posted 04 September 2003 - 07:31
Autosport, August 28th 2003, pgs 70 & 71. The headers for the Toyota Atlantic and Barber Dodge Pro Series say that the races were at Road America - they were at Montreal instead (as confirmed by the article itself, and a piccie of the Atlantic race).
