Alfa-Romeo 412 Daetwyler

Looking for info about Willy-Peter Daetwyler's Alfa 412, especially when he bought the car. Photos with the original Touring body also welcome.

This car has already been discussed on TNF time ago. You should try a search in TNF archives.

I found back those threads:
http://forums.atlasf...hlight=alfa 412
http://forums.atlasf...hlight=alfa 412

But the source for pictures on the wab is no more, and I have no time to scan pics from Moore's "The Immortal 2.9" in the very next times.

There's a small pic in this thread:
http://forums.atlasf...hlight=alfa 412

The Touring body style used is similar to one used on some 6c2500 competition cars. Patrick posted a link to a small picture of that body style. I believe Daetwyler got the car just after WW2. The car, as raced was dark red with a cream colored engine bonnet. I am not certain when the car was rebodied, but I think it was circa 1954. The car is now in "Schlumpf".

One of the other 412s (some books say only 2 cars, others say as many as 4) was raced with the Touring body in 1950, than rebodied by Vignale and ran in the 1951 MM. This car disappeared circa 1960.

Michael: Daetwyler bought his Alfa-Romeo 412 straight from the works the wednesday before the swiss race of Erlen which was saturday 21-05 and sunday 22-05 1949, so the wednesday was the 18-05!
The car was a 12 cyl 4500 cc unsupercharged, chassis number 412152. As Daetwyler lived in Zürich
its registration plate was ZH-16419. In 1950 he car received a supercharger.
The body was similar to the ones of the 8C-2900s. One of them was raced in Switzerland by Jean Studer chassis 412034. As Studer was from Bern the registration plate was BE-2340. It is said that
this car was ex Emilio Romano.

Thanks a lot for all your efforts. I believe Jean-Maurice cleared the problem, it seems that I mixed up Daetwyler's 412 with Studer's 8C-2900B.

Gigleux:

So it appears that there were at least 3 Tipo 412s; 412151, 412152 and 412153; is that correct?

Do you have any information as to what happened to 412151, the car that was rebodied by Vignale and ran in the 1951 MM? The last the car was seen was at Nardi, circa 1959-1960...

Dretceterini: sorry but I don't know more than you about 412151.
As written yesterday, Daetwyler began with the car at Erlen in 1949. He realised 2 nd practise time but burned a valve and could not race. Sad beginning. After that Daetwyler used he car extensively and won nearly everytime. It was prepared and maintained by Bruno Picco the Alfa Romeo specialist of Zürich. In 1950 he fitted a supercharger and two carbs in place of the three double corps Webers and the power raised from 220 to more 300 hp!
During 1952 the car had an extensive rebuilt always by Picco and received a new body: it is said it was designed by Michelotti, in a few minutes, on the corner of a table and between two attemps during the Aoste-Grand St Bernard hillclimb. Daetwyler continued to race it mainly in hillclimbs till nearly the end of the fifties (last time I found it was, if I remember well in1957!), competing in sports cars category and by removing the wings in Free Formula cat.

Thank you

The 412s are perhaps my favorite cars of all time, so I am very interested in finding out what is factual and what is speculation..

I had a look on some photos from the Schlumpf collection found on this site
http://www.barchetta...index.html#_TOP

I found that one of the images there was captioned #412152. So far so good; it has been established that this car is in the collection. Only problem is that the picture does not show the same car as is shown in this thread, claiming it to be #412152.
The thread: http://forums.atlasf...hlight=alfa 412

The car shown in this thread is also shown in the Schlumpf homepage. But here this car is claimed to be a 2.9, #412034

So, my question is: which car is actually the A-R 412, chassis #412152
The picture in the Schlumpf homepage claiming that it shows the 412 (not showing the entire car..), shows a car that does not seem to be in running condition (the dashboard lacks instruments)..

Another question then.. What's the story about the other car (presumably the #412034 2.9)? Obviously it has been re-bodied, but by who?

Here is a photo of the 2 cars in the Schlumpf Museum. One is the 412 and one is the 2900.

http://site-perso.ch...eux_8c2900b.jpg

Yes, these are the two cars I ment. But which one is which?

All right! I don't know if it's because it's late and I've been out partying, but now I see THREE AR 2.9/412-type cars in the Schlumpf collection. The ones shown in the photo on the link posted by Dretceterini AND this one http://www.barchetta...-romeo-x-10.jpg . First I thought it was one of the cars from another angle. But clearly it's not! As a matter of fact all three cars are shown on this photo http://site-perso.ch...eux_8c2900b.jpg , the third being just visible behind the other two..

Jonas, I'm not a specialist of the 8C-2900 Alfas and I don't have Simon Moore's book about them
but I'll try to explain you their story in Switzerland.
In 1947 Jean Studer, garagist in Berne, raced an AR 8C-2900 with Touring body #412034 registration plate BE-2340.
For 1948 he sold the car to Paul Glauser, also from Berne who had it registred BE-20512. The front of the car was modified by Ramseyer and Jenzer coachbilder at Berne.
Always in 1948, Studer bought his second 2900-AR: 412013 with coachwork by Martin Walther coachbilder at Berne. Always registred BE-2340. At the end of the season this car was sold to Fritz Künzi who raced it in 1949-1950.
In 1949, Studer bought his third 8C-2900, #412032 a car said to be ex Emilio Romano, and raced it until at least 1951 with its original body by Touring. And of course always registration plate BE-2340 to make things easier!
Always in 1949, Glauser put on his car, #412034, a new body realized by Graber at Wichtrach. The old Touring body with modified front-end by Ramseyer and Jenzer was fitted on the Alfa-Romeo of Schweitzer, a 6C-1750 bored out to 1900cc.
About Daetwyler car refer to what I wrote precedently.
412032, 412034 and 412152 are all three now at Mulhouse.
When you consider the Mulhouse home page you indicated , on the left you have the AR. Front right to left you have 412034 with his Graber body, then 412152 cockpit and 412032 with 412152 just behind. It seems that 412032 received the body of 412013 by Walther or a very similar one. That all I know about them except the three cars were extensively raced in Switzerland by their owners in circuit races and hillclimbs.

Gigleux, thank you so much for the information! Some of it I should perhaps have understood, had I only read the previous posts a bit more thoroughly. But maybe I could be excused for being a bit confused in the matter =)
Anyway, all three cars are, needless to say, absolutely fabulous and I must pay a visit to Mulhouse whenever I get the possibility, to see them in reality.

By the way, does the Sclumpf museum ever drive any of their cars or are they just stationary? Still better than watching the cars sit in the museum would, of course, to see and hear them at speed!

This 8c2900 is also in the Schlumpf Museum...

http://images.google...e/8c2900a_2.jpg