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1925 GP de l'ACF - Touring Cars & GP


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#1 Doug Nye

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Posted 10 December 2003 - 17:42

Relevant to not very much I thought the following might be of interest - from the contemporary reports of what proved to be an historic weekend's racing, as published in the French magazine 'La Vie Automobile':

First the 1925 ACF Touring Car Grand Prix - entry followed by lap chart:

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Then the 1925 Grand Prix de l'ACF itself - entry followed by lap chart:

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Enjoy!

DCN

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#2 Don Capps

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Posted 10 December 2003 - 17:57

Thanks, Doug! This is exactly the sort of thing that makes some of us very Happy Campers..... :love: :clap: :up:

#3 Leif Snellman

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Posted 10 December 2003 - 19:59

Thank you Doug! :clap: :clap: :clap:

Note the interesting and quite informative "time lines" in the lap chart!

Also note that all Bugattis have been given the weight of 735 kg while I have the following list from Hans Etzrodt:

5 P de Vizcaya 739 kg
9 Goux 737 kg
13 Costantini 740 kg
15 F de Vizcaya 745 kg
17 Foresti 734 kg

Hans can surely give his source once he got his computer back online again.

#4 Marcor

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Posted 10 December 2003 - 20:23

About the touring car race
I would like to add: DNA- #8 and 10, Diatto, but no drivers quoted
Any idea about those 2 ones ?

And who was Ledu ? Another pseudonym ?

#5 ensign14

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Posted 10 December 2003 - 21:49

:clap: :clap:

Which leads me to the question - who invented the lap chart in the media?

#6 Felix Muelas

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Posted 12 December 2003 - 22:56

My friend -and enthusiast collaborator in the Spanish Forum- Gustavo Morales wishes to do three things in respect of this topic, as follows :

a) To thank Doug Nye for his posting...

b) To declare himself green with envy as "impossible" seems to be the word attached to his quest for years to obtain any "La Vie Automobile" in the "market" (so he respectfully wonders how did Doug get his...maybe being suscribed when younger :lol: )
No, seriously, is there any tip that you could provide on how to get originals / copies (including decently digitalized ones for exclusive personal use) of "La Vie Automobile"?

c) To share with us some images of the Touring Car Race as found on the magazine "Tres Sport"

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#7 Roger Clark

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Posted 13 December 2003 - 07:18

These Peugeots "sans soupapes" - are they sleeve valve engines?

#8 GIGLEUX

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Posted 13 December 2003 - 09:06

Yes they were. "Sans soupapes" is the appelation, in french, for sleeve valve in english but the meaning is not the same. "Sans"= without "soupapes"= valves.
These big, 3800 and 2500cc, Peugeot engines worked following the Knight principle.

#9 Doug Nye

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Posted 13 December 2003 - 12:49

These are the 1925 Touring Car GP photos used to illustrate the 'La Vie Automobile' report:

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My vote goes to that magnificent Steyr - a prototype I would love to model, or indeed to replicate as a 1-to-1 scale runner....

DCN

#10 robert dick

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Posted 13 December 2003 - 13:38

Not only the Steyr, but also the Cottin-Desgouttes was available as "limousine aérodynamique" :

http://cottindesgout...itures/r162.jpg

... or as "torpédo à trois places" if the mother-in-law desperately wanted to be present at the picnic :

http://cottindesgout...926R149-151.JPG

#11 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 16 December 2003 - 09:51

Originally posted by Leif Snellman
... I have the following list from Hans Etzrodt:

5 P de Vizcaya 739 kg
9 Goux 737 kg
13 Costantini 740 kg
15 F de Vizcaya 745 kg
17 Foresti 734 kg

Hans can surely give his source once he got his computer back online again.

I still don't know from which magazine I had copied the weights. Trouble is that some digitized magazines are on my old hard drive, which presently serves as a paper weight until I install it tomorrow as a back-up drive into in my brand new machine, presently just 12 hours old.



Doug, thanks for that extraordinary lap chart of the Grand Prix. I can now improve my own notes, which I am sure are not as accurate, based only on the 5-lap figures and some text quotations.

#12 Bengt

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Posted 17 December 2003 - 14:36

Does anyone have the results from other ACF Touring Car GPs? My own information is a bit scarce including one piece that says that Jules Goux's last race was in this race in 1927. He's supposed to have finished 3rd in Bugatti. Coments?

#13 GIGLEUX

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Posted 17 December 2003 - 20:02

In 1927, no Touring cars race. The 1927 French GP meeting comprised three races. The main event was of course the ACF GP for cars complying with the current formula of the time: 1500cc; this race was held on Sunday July 03. Two other races composed the meeting and were held on July 2. A race of Formule libre: 7 cars started and the race was mared by the fatal crash of de Courcelles on a Guyot Sp; the winner was Divo with a 1500 GP Talbot, 2nd Louis Chiron on Bugatti 35B, 3rd G.E.T.Eyston with a 35C and last and fourth Mme Derancourt with a Salmson. The other race was the "Coupe de la Commission Sportive" with some 18 cars starting. It was also a kind of Formule libre race with a restriction: the cars were allowed to consume up to 11 kg of fuel+oil for every 100 km travelledand no more.
Bugatti had official entries with Conelli and Goux on 37As. BNC, Salmson and Peugeot also entered official cars. The race was won by Andre Boillot on a sleeve-valve engined 14 HP Peugeot by a mere margin of 4/10 of second as he was obliged to ease up in his last lap not to run out of fuel; the second was Doré with a La Licorne 1500 and Goux in his last race finished 6 th.

#14 Gary Doyle

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Posted 23 December 2003 - 06:35

I think the automotive museum in Reno, Nevada has several images of the 1925 race. They are Meurisse glass plate negatives. Was this race at Le Mans?

Gary Doyle

#15 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 23 December 2003 - 07:00

Gary - in 1925, the French Grand Prix took place for the first time at Montlhéry, also incorporating the newly attached road circuit to he oval, which existed already the year before. This new combined circuit was used for the touring cars as well as the grand prix cars.

#16 RAP

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Posted 23 December 2003 - 09:42

Bengt

You will find the results of the ACF Touring GPs on this site
http://www.wsrp.wz.cz/prewar.html

RAP

#17 robert dick

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Posted 27 December 2003 - 10:49

Steyr pix :

http://www.zuckerfab...enalbum2_VI.htm

(index :
http://www.zuckerfab...ienalbum_ix.htm?
see IAA 39 - Mercedes record streamliner :
http://www.zuckerfab...nalbum3_iaa.htm)