'The Sound of Speed'

After mentioning "The Sound of Speed" several times on a couple of threads with very little response I have finally got some response on the "Riverside" thread~it seems most people have not heard of it never mind seen it. That is a great shame, especially since this forum is devoted to the history of racing and F1 in particular. "The Sound of Speed" was filmed at Riverside raceway in 1961 and featured the F1 Scarab, now converted to Chevy V8 power for the proposed formula libre classs, and driven by Lance Reventlow and Chuck Daigh. Bruce Kessler produced and directed the movie and our own Karl Ludvigsen was involved. "Sports Cars Illustrated" did a feature article on the making of the movie.
The sound is fantastic!, lovers of Riverside should have it on permanent replay on their vcrs. The colour of my VHS copy is fading now after nearly 20 years but it is still very watchable. As a piece of motor racing memorabilia it is priceless.

The thing is where is it now? Karl Ludvigsen advertised for a copy in the British magazines some years ago and acquired one, perhaps he can tell us where he got it? Mine came from John Streets of Redwood City, California after a friend of his found the original film while clearing our a warehouse-I have since lost touch with John. Who else has a copy?

Originally posted by bertocchi
I received mine from the Motorsport Collector store/website along with some other items. I believe that it was a dub from the owner of that wonderful place's personal collection. I still have a long standing request with them for the Scarab book written by (I believe) Preston Hen. It'll surface one of these days and I'll be all the happier for it. The video is precious and I'm-a-gonna transfer it to DVD at my earliest opportunity.

If I had a VHS copy, I'd dub it to Mini-DV so I could easily generate innumerable useful copies in case the original faded, and find an excuse to explore my newly acquired but untested computer equipment which has the movie-editing and DVD-recording facility I've heard of but never learned.

Frank S

Good idea, Frank!

As an update: I did a search on Google and came up with the news that Kessler and Reventlow tried to get an Academy Award Nomination in the documentary section for this movie. It appeared at the Cannes Film Festival but then disappeared; It seems no dealer in vintage videos lists it so the answer is to find someone who will. I have sent a message to Don Orosco because (a) he has the original car and (2) he has a copy of the movie on video, or so he told me some years ago. I am not going to let this drop! You people need to see this movie!
Regards, David B

It was said.....

The video is precious and I'm-a-gonna transfer it to DVD at my earliest opportunity.

It was also said.....

If I had a VHS copy, I'd dub it to Mini-DV so I could easily generate innumerable useful copies

Now no one should take the personally but therein lays the reason why more films are not available for general distribution.
I own well over 100 16 mm films on our favourite subject but I am not going to:
1 - Spend the money acquiring films.
2 - Pay to have them cleaned and restored.
3 - Have them transferred to DVD (at a cost of $5- 7.00 each in quantities of 500) not including authoring.
4 - Hold and store said copies.
5 - HOPE that 500 people will be willing to buy them to produce a profit for my time, effort, and outlay.
When all the while someone will make a copy "just for their friends." It just isn't worth the effort I have to say. Other people get paid for their labour, shouldn't those of us who spend the time and effort to preserve these old films be accorded the same consideration, or should we put in the time, money, and labour only to see it taken away for the price of a blank CD and a DVD burner upgrade?

Our local club just had former Scarab pilot Don Devine speak and he brought a new copy of The Meister Brausers for us to enjoy, until then I have only seen a faded copy of a faded copy of a faded copy, but this print was perfect. He has no interest in putting it on DVD or tape for the same reasons, too much effort for too little gain.
See Gary Doyle's dilemma on publishing his book on DVD for further thoughts on this subject.

However... once I move into my new place I would like to have Film Nights for like minded individuals, there would be no charge of course and food will be provided for only the pleasure of fellow enthusiasts company.
Some of the films I have are pre-war Maserati, pre-war Bentley, Mexican RR, Jaguar, BRM, Nurburgring, Auto Union, etc.
It's funny in a way, most people would never consider walking into a store and taking something without paying for it, but that's exactly what it is every time someone makes a copy of an item that another has produced. Just something to think about.
It's really too bad but that's the way it is I'm afraid.
Oh Well,

Ron Scoma

Hi Ron, I think we all get your point but in this case that is not what at least I am looking for. The original movie was considered good enough by its creaters to try for an Academy Award, I don't think we can expect that sort of quality for nothing and I believe other TNFers would agree, BUT:

No Classic/Vintage video company is presently offering it so an opportunity exists to both fill a void and, possibly, make a profit.

I think you are located in California? Are you with CSRG? If so, would you know if CSRG (or a similiar organisation) would take on the task-possibly profitable, of acquriing the rights to, and publishing "The Sound of Speed". My email to them was returned as undeliverable, can you help?

Originally posted by David Birchall
Hi Ron, I think we all get your point but in this case that is not what at least I am looking for. The original movie was considered good enough by its creaters to try for an Academy Award, I don't think we can expect that sort of quality for nothing and I believe other TNFers would agree, BUT:
No Classic/Vintage video company is presently offering it so an opportunity exists to both fill a void and, possibly, make a profit.

I think you are located in California? Are you with CSRG? If so, would you know if CSRG (or a similiar organisation) would take on the task-possibly profitable, of acquriing the rights to, and publishing "The Sound of Speed". My email to them was returned as undeliverable, can you help?

David:
Whether it is available or not acquiring the rights is a minefield that requires a use of a lawyer (entertainment lawyers usually charge about a minimum of $300. per hour).
It all comes down to quantify, if I were to dupe 10,000 copies my cost per copy would be around $.50 each without royalties, probably. One copy would be around $18. Prices vary according to local. Then there's the printing, distribution, etc. Cost will come down in a few years I suspect but for now that's the way it is.
There is no way a special interest subject would sell that many and I doubt that many would pay around $40 for a DVD of any car race.

Actually I am in Chicago and every time I brought an interesting video to a meeting there were a line of people wanting to "borrow it and make a copy." I'm sure they felt they were doing me a favour by not asking me to duplicate it for them... After a while I just stopped bringing them because I was forced into an uncomfortable situation of telling my friends "no." Some seemed genuinely offended.
Big companies such as Ford and Kodak tell me that it is far more trouble than it's worth to them to get involved. The "market" for items of the past does not fit into next quarters earnings statement.
About the only way I see this happening is to apply for a Grant and produce these under the auspices of educational material. I am pursuing that avenue but it is a slow one at best.
Cheers,

Ron

Karl Ludvigsen: Any suggestions?
David b

SURELY this, then, is a prime candidate for inclusion in Motorfilms Quarterly??? If only we can find a decent quality print.............if anyone does have one, feel free to get in contact with me.

I don't remember how I acquired it but I had a 16mm copy of Sound of Speed. Not having a 16mm projector, Dick Wallen borrowed it and had a transfer made to VHS. I haven't seen it in years but, if I remember, it had no dialog, only the sounds.

Dick has never put it in his catalogue, probably because of the problems of copyright, as other have mentioned here. I'll check with him and see if he knows who holds the rights and if it can be made available.

Many thanks Phil; perhaps we can get this off the ground yet. And no, there is no dialog, that is part of the charm of the movie, just "The Sound of Speed".
David B

Originally posted by Ron Scoma
quote:

It was said.....

--------------------------------------
The video is precious and I'm-a-gonna transfer it to DVD at my earliest opportunity.
--------------------------------------

It was also said.....

quote:
----------------------------------------------
If I had a VHS copy, I'd dub it to Mini-DV so I could easily generate innumerable useful copies
----------------------------------------------

Now no one should take the personally ...



It's funny in a way, most people would never consider walking into a store and taking something without paying for it, but that's exactly what it is every time someone makes a copy of an item that another has produced. Just something to think about.
It's really too bad but that's the way it is I'm afraid.
Oh Well,

Ron Scoma

Brought tears to my eyes, it did. It might affect others differently, those without experiences similar to certain of mine. Sigh.

It bears saying: my "I'd dub it" pipe-dream was 95% jest. What are the chances of the other 5% ever materializing? I missed out on the RIR-Tribute-connected opportunity. Another sigh.

--
Frank S

This is a surprising coincidence--I just got home from the local car club meeting where we all watched "The Sound of Speed" on a big (60inch?) flat screen. It still floors me every time I see it and I have been watching it regularly for nearly 20 years now.
I am unclear as to why Frank S revived the thread and made the previous post-I must have missed something. However, I did notice that when this thread was current I could get no response out of Karl Ludvigsen, who had some involvement in the making of the film, or Doug Nye, who I expected to be interested. Could it be that Motorfilm Quarterlys has plans to issue it? Will I be sucked into the twilight zone for making such a suggestion?
Stay tooned....

do we know whoACTUALLY owns the rights tothis film? I tried unsuccessfully last year to acquire the rights to the 1973 film 'If You're Not Winning, You're Not Trying Hrd Enough'. After innumerable phonecalls, it transpired that Duke Video own it, and I'm not prepared to deal with them as they want an arm and a leg just for me to licence it. I then, as Ron so ably says, have to re-transfer it, edit, package, duplicate, advertise AND THEN sell it!! I had a few good ideas for what to put as 'extras' on the DVD too.

Originally posted by David Birchall
This is a surprising coincidence--I just got home from the local car club meeting where we all watched "The Sound of Speed" on a big (60inch?) flat screen. It still floors me every time I see it and I have been watching it regularly for nearly 20 years now.
I am unclear as to why Frank S revived the thread and made the previous post-I must have missed something. However, I did notice that when this thread was current I could get no response out of Karl Ludvigsen, who had some involvement in the making of the film, or Doug Nye, who I expected to be interested. Could it be that Motorfilm Quarterlys has plans to issue it? Will I be sucked into the twilight zone for making such a suggestion?
Stay tooned....

I hadn't seen it until I happened upon a fellow who would loan me a copy.

Yesterday was the day! As I told the guy, it will probably take, oh, twenty or so viewings before I can believe all I see in it. What think I know this far (fifth time is running now) is that the overlapping clips match real-time laps in all but a very few instances, and there is just one place in the entire sequence that a clip is out of order, lap-progress-wise. Amazing.

It was not hyperbole when I said I got all misty at a particular place on the final tour. A marvelous experience. I do hope someone can organize a distribution of DVD copies. Very much worth the effort. (There's reason to believe I can get Bruce Kessler's email, if that would help)

--
Frank S

No, I don't know who owns the rights to it. I called Don Orosco last year but he didn't know either. Perhaps one of the California based TNFers could contact John Streets at Merlin engineering and see if he knows. It was he who supplied me with my copy made from an original print that was found in a movie warehouse in the early eighties. John, incidentally, was co-inventor of the scanning head that made video recorders possible. He also was partners with Arthur Mallock early in his career.
David B

Frank, our two postings must have crossed in the ether. If you can get Kessler's email it would be a great place to start.

Seeing the problems which Ron describes so graphically, it makes me appreciate the level of time, effort, costs and undoubted skill which Doug Nye and Dave Weguelin put into their film releases.

The abuse of material is always a probelm with photographs also.

keep up the threads and responses

many thanks

Roger Lund.

I doubt there are any rights on The Sound of Speed. Some 15 years ago I ordered my copy from an outfit in Pennsylvania [New Jersey ??], which dealt with film clips that were in the public domain.

They operated under an interesting concept. You could order videos and pay based on video length. They would fill them with a list of subjects they had on file and from which you could chose; multiple years of Sebring in the fifties and sixties, Nassau 1962, The Zerex Special, etc, etc.

Have no idea what their name was or if they are still in business.

WINO

well, in that case, all we have to do now is locate all the master material !!

...and WINO, there are rights to EVERYTHING!! (I'm not joking!!)

hi there,
found this in the "sports car graphic" no 11, march 1962



cheers marty

Great stuff Martin! I can now reveal that Frank S has actually been in touch with Bruce Kessler himself. (I hope Frank won't mind me revealing this) and Bruce says that Universal Films hold the rights. So..............................it looks like we're going to have to negotiate with a multi-billion dollar company to get access to this film!! We'll see what we can do!!

Thanks Martin! I have the article somewhere but was too lazy to look it up

Some may not know (I didn't) that GaryC is a distributer of DVDs of historic racing films; I for one, hope he manages to come to an agreemnt with Universal. I really believe this film should be available to enthusiasts it is so good.
David B

'that GaryC is a distributer of DVDs of historic racing films' erm....not quite yet David!
I will be soon though. My first video is mastered and I am currently awaiting the sleeve and label designs before we release it though.

I'm trying to find out if "The Sound of Speed" has become available in any form. I first saw this in the theatre as a young teenager and absolutely loved it. Anyone?

I had a couple of DVDs burned a year ago and sent one to GaryC. He is a distributer of this type of film I suggest you send him an email or pm, he may be able to help.

Originally posted by WINO
I doubt there are any rights on The Sound of Speed. Some 15 years ago I ordered my copy from an outfit in Pennsylvania [New Jersey ??], which dealt with film clips that were in the public domain.

They operated under an interesting concept. You could order videos and pay based on video length. They would fill them with a list of subjects they had on file and from which you could chose; multiple years of Sebring in the fifties and sixties, Nassau 1962, The Zerex Special, etc, etc.

Have no idea what their name was or if they are still in business.

WINO

Wino,

I suspect my copy came from the same source as yours. I have one VHS tape with "The Sound of Speed" and "Road Racing...Detroit Style 1971." They're listed as Film # 12 and Tape # 6. No identification of the source. A second VHS tape has "The Zerex Special" (27:48), "Sunoco Penske Commercial (1961)", one minute, and "24 Hours of Daytona 1971 (Ferrari), 2:23. These are "Films # 23 A, B, & C."

I have had them for years. This thread has been a good reminder to get them out and look at them again.

Cynic

Cynic,

Those are exactly the same videos that I have. These particular ones must have been standard combinations. Another video I have contains the Mexican road races in 1953 and 54, the 1967 Le Mans 24 Hours and the 1971 Pocono 500. I can't imagine I would have selected this kind of combination, so probably another standard issue. And then there are the ones with contents that I selected myself, such as the video with about six or seven Sebring 12 Hours in the fifties/sixties. For those rainy weekends!

The Mexican road racing video has a sticker with address, although not helpful if they went out of business:

Historic Video Archives
P.O. Box 189
Cedar Knolls, NJ 07927
"The Unique Video Source"

I had always fond memories of the Sound of Speed tape but did not watch it in recent years. Former race driver Jerry Entin borrowed the video from me a few weeks ago and said he wasn't that impressed. Perhaps the difference in outlook between a real race driver like Jerry and a racing fan like me?

WINO

Still in business it seems.

Look at www.historicvideoarchives.com



WINO

A quick look [although hardly all encompassing] didn't reveal any offering of The Sound of Speed, but I can recommend the excellent B/W 1961 British Grand Prix at Aintree. It seems to be straight from the BBC broadcast. Another interesting rendering is the 1962 Nassau Carnival of Speed. No great production quality, but very interesting contents nonetheless.


WINO

I just talked with Stephen Pellegrino, the owner of Historic Video Archives and he says he has never heard of the Sound of Speed but that may be because it is part of a grouping of films. I have sent him a link to this thread.

My "Sound of Speed" tape is, just like Cynic's, the first part of a video that includes "Road Racing, Detroit style 1971", which shows Jim Hall and his Camaro winning a TransAm race at the Glen. I know I ordered it for the Scarab coverage, but the Watkins Glen action is excellent too. Curiously, on the video label only reference is made to the "Road Racing" section.


WINO

Wino,

My label shows the same omission. Copyright issues, you think? By identifying "Film #12" it's clear that Sound of Speed is intentionally on the tape. Did you have to know the secret handshake to know to order this one? I wish I remembered.

Cynic

Cynic, same here. I don't remember, but he must have advertised it somewhere. I do remember that at first I thought he sent me the wrong video. Until I watched its contents.

WINO