MOTORSPORT magazine June 04 today announce that : -
"The Brooklands era will be central to the plot of a feature film due for release in 2007.
Although a work of fiction the film will feature the star drivers and cars from Brooklands.
The racing scenes will be recreated on a purpose built set. Some filming is likely to take place at Montlhery too.
Producer Andrew Smith said : "Brooklands is the spiritual home of modern motor sport. What happened there literally changed our world. "
New : Brooklands Feature Film
Started by
RTH
, May 19 2004 13:01
60 replies to this topic
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#2
Breadmaster
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Posted 19 May 2004 - 13:08
keep your fingers crossed people...... 
#3
Eric McLoughlin
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Posted 19 May 2004 - 15:17
Andrew Smith's assertion sounds pretty dubious to me. I hope the film is more circumspect in its claims.
#4
D-Type
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Posted 19 May 2004 - 16:37
Let's hope they employ WB as a consultant. AND listen to him!
#6
Criceto
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Posted 19 May 2004 - 18:50
Well, on the face of it, this seems like a fun bit of fluff - it might even be worth throwing a £50 into the pot to see it get up and running. One can always take non-buffs to the movie and then explain "and now you've seen the fiction, this is how it *really* was."
One thing rankles badly with me from the synopsis right from the start: The producers' eagerness to involve the potential female audience by means of a prominent "Barbara Cartland" character. Cartland was an outrageous self-publicist who had a room in the museum turned over to the cult of herself and whose publicity stunts on the circuit actually detracted from the spectacular achievements of Kay Petre, Gwenda Stewart and others.
If only the producers could be turned away from what was effectively a sidebar in Brooklands' history. The real lady racers of Weybridge would make a far better story in my humble opinion.
One thing rankles badly with me from the synopsis right from the start: The producers' eagerness to involve the potential female audience by means of a prominent "Barbara Cartland" character. Cartland was an outrageous self-publicist who had a room in the museum turned over to the cult of herself and whose publicity stunts on the circuit actually detracted from the spectacular achievements of Kay Petre, Gwenda Stewart and others.
If only the producers could be turned away from what was effectively a sidebar in Brooklands' history. The real lady racers of Weybridge would make a far better story in my humble opinion.
#7
RTH
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Posted 19 May 2004 - 19:52
Well its quite a slick website, and this government has made some substantial grants of taxpayers money to make British films in the very recent past - the majority of which by all accounts were both critical and financial failures.
I see they are looking for minority share investors in the film, - there does not seem to be a worked up storyline available yet. It would be great to see a really good feature film made about that era at Brooklands - but not something embarassingly awful, sounds like its all quite a way off yet. Something tells me historical accuracy isn't going to be top of the agenda .
So who would you cast as Barbara Cartland !
I see they are looking for minority share investors in the film, - there does not seem to be a worked up storyline available yet. It would be great to see a really good feature film made about that era at Brooklands - but not something embarassingly awful, sounds like its all quite a way off yet. Something tells me historical accuracy isn't going to be top of the agenda .
So who would you cast as Barbara Cartland !
#8
Doug Nye
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Posted 19 May 2004 - 22:16
I was sent a copy of this synopsis and approached about assisting the project. I mentioned precisely the point made above. The response was that the Cartload nonsense was merely indicative of the kind of 'general interest' pitch necessary to float such a project before a very picky movie industry, and even more picky - and suspicious - know-nothing financiers.
When I explained that much of the real story could actually be portrayed in such a way that even more vivid - yet genuine - personalities made the reality more interesting and engaging than such fiction the would-be producers briefly showed great interest. I think they are open to suggestions - but the moment payment for services rendered was mentioned they put up the 'closed' sign.
I wished them good fortune and we sail our separate routes...
DCN
When I explained that much of the real story could actually be portrayed in such a way that even more vivid - yet genuine - personalities made the reality more interesting and engaging than such fiction the would-be producers briefly showed great interest. I think they are open to suggestions - but the moment payment for services rendered was mentioned they put up the 'closed' sign.
I wished them good fortune and we sail our separate routes...
DCN
#9
petefenelon
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Posted 19 May 2004 - 22:27
Anyone else signed up to review the thing? - I just did... let's see how bad it can be.
At worst, I have a feeling this could be a brilliantined Driven.....
At worst, I have a feeling this could be a brilliantined Driven.....
#10
RTH
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Posted 20 May 2004 - 08:17
Peter, as ever you have a delightful turn of phrase !
#11
Eric McLoughlin
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Posted 20 May 2004 - 08:30
Did anyone see the recent Stephen Fry film "Bright Young Things"? It also featured Brooklands scenes.
As did the 90s TV series "The House of Elliot".
As did the 90s TV series "The House of Elliot".
#12
RTH
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Posted 20 May 2004 - 08:59
There was also the 1995 made for TV I hr film about the life of Sir Henry (Tim) Birkin and writing his autobiography "Full Throttle " , Birkin played by Rowan Atkinson.
They actually staged some races over the existing stretch of Brooklands banking, which because now its so hoplessly bumpy and broken up it was rather less than satisfactory. Atkinson appeared massively over the top, but having now read the book , Birkin himself was a larger than life figure as well.
They actually staged some races over the existing stretch of Brooklands banking, which because now its so hoplessly bumpy and broken up it was rather less than satisfactory. Atkinson appeared massively over the top, but having now read the book , Birkin himself was a larger than life figure as well.
#13
buldoggrrrr
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Posted 20 May 2004 - 11:05
Great to see our production is being talked about. Yes D-Type, WB is certainly going to be approached about assisting us with the ongoing research but the timing has to be right.
In response to Criceto, the synopsis you read is now very much dated, the past months have been spent writing, re-writing and re-writing. You’ll be pleased to know that although Cartland still makes an appearance, her role is much closer to reality. When the whole concept was developed, I felt it very important to include the contributions of the female racers of the day. Some may see it as toadying to the female audience but it is an honest attempt to showcase Brooklands in the 30’s as it was.
RTH is quite right, the script for Brooklands was written back in Jan 03 but since this time it has changed quite dramatically from the original narrative. I certainly hope the finished product is not embarrassingly awful, I can assure you that I wouldn’t have invested 18 months of my life into this project if I thought it stood a chance of being appreciated at best, mediocre.
As for historical accuracy, well that is a difficult kettle of fish. It is without question we are going to make some enemies along the way. Brooklands is held very dear to a great many people, myself included, and I would be the first to admit that in exercising artistic license, we are opening ourselves to entirely justified criticism, just like Braveheart and Saving Private Ryan.
As many of you know, films based on motor racing do not have a good track record at the box office and film financiers are very dubious about getting involved with another. In essence we have had to create a story based at Brooklands and not about Brooklands where fictional characters interweave with the legends of the day. If the production looks anything like a BBC documentary, then undoubtedly we shall have a major flop on our hands.
The goal is to fly the Brooklands flag to the largest audience possible, and in that we have to pander to the audiences needs for quality entertainment. £20m worth of investors will obviously need to see a return.
At the end of the day however, the important thing to remember is that when the film becomes the success that I, and a growing number of people believe it will be, the knock on effect for the Brooklands museum and society will be a tremendous boost, especially in terms of visitations and memberships. It also allows the legends like, Cobb, Railton, Campbell, Petre, Dunlop Mac and even Ebbelwhite to stretch their legs again and be appreciated by a new generation of Brooklands enthusiast.
As for Doug Nye, your comments were very much listened to, and I would still like to talk further on the subject. I will admit that when we first started this journey the capital resources to appoint an authority such as yourself were not available at the time. This has been to date a totally independent effort, but what started out as one man and a dream has now grown to a strong team of industry professionals shooting for the same goal.
Love it or hate it, it’s going to be cinemas across the world to coincide with Brooklands centenary. I hope we can get more people like everyone in this forum to get behind this important British production.
Sorry for the lengthy response, its indicative of my passion.
Regards
Andrew Smith
In response to Criceto, the synopsis you read is now very much dated, the past months have been spent writing, re-writing and re-writing. You’ll be pleased to know that although Cartland still makes an appearance, her role is much closer to reality. When the whole concept was developed, I felt it very important to include the contributions of the female racers of the day. Some may see it as toadying to the female audience but it is an honest attempt to showcase Brooklands in the 30’s as it was.
RTH is quite right, the script for Brooklands was written back in Jan 03 but since this time it has changed quite dramatically from the original narrative. I certainly hope the finished product is not embarrassingly awful, I can assure you that I wouldn’t have invested 18 months of my life into this project if I thought it stood a chance of being appreciated at best, mediocre.
As for historical accuracy, well that is a difficult kettle of fish. It is without question we are going to make some enemies along the way. Brooklands is held very dear to a great many people, myself included, and I would be the first to admit that in exercising artistic license, we are opening ourselves to entirely justified criticism, just like Braveheart and Saving Private Ryan.
As many of you know, films based on motor racing do not have a good track record at the box office and film financiers are very dubious about getting involved with another. In essence we have had to create a story based at Brooklands and not about Brooklands where fictional characters interweave with the legends of the day. If the production looks anything like a BBC documentary, then undoubtedly we shall have a major flop on our hands.
The goal is to fly the Brooklands flag to the largest audience possible, and in that we have to pander to the audiences needs for quality entertainment. £20m worth of investors will obviously need to see a return.
At the end of the day however, the important thing to remember is that when the film becomes the success that I, and a growing number of people believe it will be, the knock on effect for the Brooklands museum and society will be a tremendous boost, especially in terms of visitations and memberships. It also allows the legends like, Cobb, Railton, Campbell, Petre, Dunlop Mac and even Ebbelwhite to stretch their legs again and be appreciated by a new generation of Brooklands enthusiast.
As for Doug Nye, your comments were very much listened to, and I would still like to talk further on the subject. I will admit that when we first started this journey the capital resources to appoint an authority such as yourself were not available at the time. This has been to date a totally independent effort, but what started out as one man and a dream has now grown to a strong team of industry professionals shooting for the same goal.
Love it or hate it, it’s going to be cinemas across the world to coincide with Brooklands centenary. I hope we can get more people like everyone in this forum to get behind this important British production.
Sorry for the lengthy response, its indicative of my passion.
Regards
Andrew Smith
#14
David McKinney
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Posted 20 May 2004 - 11:29
Thanks very much for all that Andrew, and good luck with the project
However, I have difficulty seeing the connection between these two sentences:
However, I have difficulty seeing the connection between these two sentences:
Originally posted by buldoggrrrr
You’ll be pleased to know that although Cartland still makes an appearance, her role is much closer to reality. When the whole concept was developed, I felt it very important to include the contributions of the female racers of the day.
#15
D-Type
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Posted 20 May 2004 - 11:45
I suppose the producers have to ask themselves whether they get more publicity and 'bums on seats' by being accurate or by deliberately distorting the truth (Braveheart, Enigma, Great Escape etc).
Titanic showed that you can produce a period piece and keep to the truth with a few fictional additions. What is unforgivable is being sloppily inaccurate when there's no need - Tiger Moths in WW1 films or postwar Morris Minors in WW2 ones.
Titanic showed that you can produce a period piece and keep to the truth with a few fictional additions. What is unforgivable is being sloppily inaccurate when there's no need - Tiger Moths in WW1 films or postwar Morris Minors in WW2 ones.
#16
buldoggrrrr
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Posted 20 May 2004 - 12:23
I think I see your point David. I'm not referring to Cartlands on track efforts which were merely a nice bit of PR for herself, but she will have a minor presence within the social whirl. The motorines will certainly be part of the racing action, and attention will be drawn to the achievements of racers like Petre, Stewart and the like.
Hope I have addressed your concern.
Hope I have addressed your concern.
#17
buldoggrrrr
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Posted 20 May 2004 - 12:44
Thats the difficult balancing act D-Type. To us the Brooklands name is legendary. But to most it’s unheard of. I even had a heated conversation recently with the marketing manager of a major oil company, heavily involved with motor sport sponsorship, who was totally unaware of its existence. That level of naivety is unfortunately what we have to deal with and is our starting point. The story and the stars is going to put most bums on seats I’m afraid.
Titanic is a good analogy, although they did have, what was it 360m to throw into it. Like our film, the story is of two fictional characters within one arena, in this case the ship, and interplaying with the actual passengers and crew.
We shall be working with a number of authorities to ensure that the authentic details are addressed accurately.
Titanic is a good analogy, although they did have, what was it 360m to throw into it. Like our film, the story is of two fictional characters within one arena, in this case the ship, and interplaying with the actual passengers and crew.
We shall be working with a number of authorities to ensure that the authentic details are addressed accurately.
#18
RTH
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Posted 20 May 2004 - 13:11
Its very nice to hear from the films producer on this forum and we thank you for taking the time and trouble to respond to the discussion . As its less that 24 hours old , I wonder how you heard about it?
There is a simply awesome breadth of knowledge on this subject by a large number of enthusiastic contributors here, all I'm sure keen to see something made of great excellence that we , the public and the british film industry can be proud of , many I imagine would be pleased to help achieve that aim. I hope you will ask here , as you go along.
Britain made a wealth of first class feature films from post war up to perhaps the 1970's , and with only odd exceptions in the last 2 or 3 decades those great scripts have been absent.
I don't think a great film needs special effects or expensive well known actors, - but what it does desperately need is a great storyline,script, and dialogue . Without that , at least for me its no good . 4 weddings for instance - was not a big budget, had no stars ( it was the film that made Hugh Grant well known ) - but it had a brilliant script, and was a massive success.
Its a lovely idea, I'm sure all of us want to see you make a film that is so good ,we would want to take our non- motor racing friends to see it, something we can all be proud of , another great British film, on our favourite subject.
If you have not already seen it , can I recommend a 50 min video " Brooklands The Birthplace of British Motor Sport " 1907 - 1939 David Weguelin productions DWP 2001 which is almost all archive film and I think tells the story of the place very well www.motorfilms.com
I wish you all success with it, and hope some of our friends here on this forum may be of some assistance , - then you can invite us all to the premiere !
There is a simply awesome breadth of knowledge on this subject by a large number of enthusiastic contributors here, all I'm sure keen to see something made of great excellence that we , the public and the british film industry can be proud of , many I imagine would be pleased to help achieve that aim. I hope you will ask here , as you go along.
Britain made a wealth of first class feature films from post war up to perhaps the 1970's , and with only odd exceptions in the last 2 or 3 decades those great scripts have been absent.
I don't think a great film needs special effects or expensive well known actors, - but what it does desperately need is a great storyline,script, and dialogue . Without that , at least for me its no good . 4 weddings for instance - was not a big budget, had no stars ( it was the film that made Hugh Grant well known ) - but it had a brilliant script, and was a massive success.
Its a lovely idea, I'm sure all of us want to see you make a film that is so good ,we would want to take our non- motor racing friends to see it, something we can all be proud of , another great British film, on our favourite subject.
If you have not already seen it , can I recommend a 50 min video " Brooklands The Birthplace of British Motor Sport " 1907 - 1939 David Weguelin productions DWP 2001 which is almost all archive film and I think tells the story of the place very well www.motorfilms.com
I wish you all success with it, and hope some of our friends here on this forum may be of some assistance , - then you can invite us all to the premiere !
#19
buldoggrrrr
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Posted 20 May 2004 - 13:56
Thanks for your support RTH. I found the thread this morning when I was checking the website figures. After spending the past 5 days writing further developments to the treatment it was a nice reprieve to have some communication with the outside world.
I will certainly use the forum in the future to gain feedback on certain issues of authenticity that will arise in the future.
I do agree about the state of the British cinema over the past couple of decades. In fact when I first started trying to raise the money, I was told by a legal expert specialising in such financing that the best we could ever hope to raise in the UK was £9m. Considering the size of the project you’d be hard pressed to make a cartoon for that money. It’s also a shame that in our quest, the strongest interest came not from Lloyds or Barclays but from a U.S. bank who obviously sees the potential of the U.K. film industry more so than institutions within our own shores.
Apparently David Puttnam wanted to make a film about the crew of a bomber during the second world war, but as financing within the UK was not forthcoming, had to resort to changing the title and accents to accommodate off-shore capital. Hence ‘Ipswich Belle’ became ‘Memphis Belle.
Tragic really, but lets hope that our production can do Brooklands justice and just maybe inspire other UK film makers that with a bit of British grit, anything is possible.
By the way, I have the copy of the video you mentioned, whenever I need a bit of a motivation, on it goes again.
I will certainly use the forum in the future to gain feedback on certain issues of authenticity that will arise in the future.
I do agree about the state of the British cinema over the past couple of decades. In fact when I first started trying to raise the money, I was told by a legal expert specialising in such financing that the best we could ever hope to raise in the UK was £9m. Considering the size of the project you’d be hard pressed to make a cartoon for that money. It’s also a shame that in our quest, the strongest interest came not from Lloyds or Barclays but from a U.S. bank who obviously sees the potential of the U.K. film industry more so than institutions within our own shores.
Apparently David Puttnam wanted to make a film about the crew of a bomber during the second world war, but as financing within the UK was not forthcoming, had to resort to changing the title and accents to accommodate off-shore capital. Hence ‘Ipswich Belle’ became ‘Memphis Belle.
Tragic really, but lets hope that our production can do Brooklands justice and just maybe inspire other UK film makers that with a bit of British grit, anything is possible.
By the way, I have the copy of the video you mentioned, whenever I need a bit of a motivation, on it goes again.
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#20
buldoggrrrr
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Posted 20 May 2004 - 14:00
Oh and by the way, in regards to the premier, what does the forum think of the idea of staging it at Brooklands in a rather massive marquee, followed by a post premier party in the clubhouse. Very nice compliment to the museums 100th birthday celebtations.
#21
Cirrus
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Posted 20 May 2004 - 17:56
The party at Brooklands idea sounds great to me, especially as I could walk there from home. I applied to participate in the preview procedure some weeks ago, and got a very polite and personal reply saying that they no longer needed any more reviewers. They even took the trouble to compliment me on my "top three films" nominations, wrongly assuming that I was an Aussie as I had nominated Gallipoli as one of them (was that you buldoggrrrr?).
I think that, from the contributions above by buldoggrrrr, that he has the very best intentions for the film. Let's hope that any backers give him the freedom to make something worthwhile.
Now, who should play Kay Petre?
Imogen Stubbs maybe?
I think that, from the contributions above by buldoggrrrr, that he has the very best intentions for the film. Let's hope that any backers give him the freedom to make something worthwhile.
Now, who should play Kay Petre?
Imogen Stubbs maybe?
#22
Criceto
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Posted 20 May 2004 - 18:00
Sounds an excellent plan, Andrew. And in spite of my anxiety regarding the "BC" elements, I am wholeheartedly behind the project. In response to some of the posts above, I have to confess to a feeling that "Chariots of Fire" might be a better proposition to aim at than "Titanic" but any effort in this direction is to be lauded.
I would also concur with your honest appraisal of the situation regards backing from UK investors. I have in recent years had the privilege of being assistant to the producer of a microscopic-budget British film, which I am happy to report came to fruition and had a decent DVD release. We did, however, get to that position with Canadian money and our biggest regret was that whatever we did, we couldn't get a theatrical distribution deal. I only pray that "Brooklands" doesn't suffer the same distribution hell that so many watchable movies get trapped by.
P.S. The Puttnam story is absolutely right. "Memphis Belle" was born as a project about Lancaster crews in Bomber Command. In the end, American backers funded a dramatisation of the famous USAF colour film - made a slightly more practical proposition by the fact that five flyable B-17s could be sourced against one operational Lanc.
I was told not so long ago that similar problems have scuppered a biopic on Guy Gibson. Such a shame.
I would also concur with your honest appraisal of the situation regards backing from UK investors. I have in recent years had the privilege of being assistant to the producer of a microscopic-budget British film, which I am happy to report came to fruition and had a decent DVD release. We did, however, get to that position with Canadian money and our biggest regret was that whatever we did, we couldn't get a theatrical distribution deal. I only pray that "Brooklands" doesn't suffer the same distribution hell that so many watchable movies get trapped by.
P.S. The Puttnam story is absolutely right. "Memphis Belle" was born as a project about Lancaster crews in Bomber Command. In the end, American backers funded a dramatisation of the famous USAF colour film - made a slightly more practical proposition by the fact that five flyable B-17s could be sourced against one operational Lanc.
I was told not so long ago that similar problems have scuppered a biopic on Guy Gibson. Such a shame.
#23
RTH
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Posted 20 May 2004 - 19:54
Big budgets do not guarantee success either, Kevin Costner's film "Waterworld " cost I think in excess of $200M was widely panned and a financial failure ( I believe he put much of his own money in to it, he made from "Dances with Wolves ")
When asked about the monsterous cost of the film "Raise the Titanic" Lou Grade said " Well put it this way - it would have been cheaper to lower the ocean ! "
If its a quality piece of work , its likely someone will beat a path to your door. So Andrew - make us a great film.
When asked about the monsterous cost of the film "Raise the Titanic" Lou Grade said " Well put it this way - it would have been cheaper to lower the ocean ! "
If its a quality piece of work , its likely someone will beat a path to your door. So Andrew - make us a great film.
#24
Ruairidh
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Posted 20 May 2004 - 20:30
Originally posted by Criceto
I was told not so long ago that similar problems have scuppered a biopic on Guy Gibson. Such a shame.
That is a real shame. I'd have paid to see that. My copy of Enemy Coast Ahead still has newspaper obit clippings in it.
#25
buldoggrrrr
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Posted 20 May 2004 - 20:38
Yes it was me Cirrus, I thought about having someone responding to the emails we get but as you can imagine, if you open up a subject like Brooklands you have to expect some flack at times. I thought therefore it would be better to handle it myself. Believe it or not I find it quite relaxing and certainly interesting to hear the opinions of others. I actually lived in Australia for 16 years which is why Gallipoli grabbed my attention.
I know what you mean about 'BC' Criceto, when I first mentioned her inclusion to John Pullford (Brooklands Curator of Motorsport) it was almost like I had blasphemed.
I don’t know where Mr Costners money went on Waterworld, I think a lot of it went down like Titanic when the first set sunk after a heavy storm.
Chariots of fire eh?, We’re certainly aiming for those heady heights in production quality but rest assured there will be no slow-mos of the cars. I have to be honest, that after spending much time (since I was 16) sitting on the members banking absorbing the atmosphere, I’m very excited about seeing a full grid of 30’s classics sweeping down onto the railway straight…..the spectacle on the big screen with the thunderous engines will certainly send a shiver down my spine.
I know what you mean about 'BC' Criceto, when I first mentioned her inclusion to John Pullford (Brooklands Curator of Motorsport) it was almost like I had blasphemed.
I don’t know where Mr Costners money went on Waterworld, I think a lot of it went down like Titanic when the first set sunk after a heavy storm.
Chariots of fire eh?, We’re certainly aiming for those heady heights in production quality but rest assured there will be no slow-mos of the cars. I have to be honest, that after spending much time (since I was 16) sitting on the members banking absorbing the atmosphere, I’m very excited about seeing a full grid of 30’s classics sweeping down onto the railway straight…..the spectacle on the big screen with the thunderous engines will certainly send a shiver down my spine.
#26
Cirrus
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Posted 20 May 2004 - 20:52
there will be no slow-mos of the cars
Amen to that. Where real speed is concerned thing always look better shown "au naturel".
#27
D-Type
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Posted 20 May 2004 - 21:06
It's reassuring that you are trying to get it right bulldoggrrrr.
Be warned! even if you get it 99% right, this forum will find the other 1%
It's ironic that one of the possible reasons that Waterworld flopped ws the attempts to be "authentic" with all the rust and Heath-Robinson devices.
Be warned! even if you get it 99% right, this forum will find the other 1%
It's ironic that one of the possible reasons that Waterworld flopped ws the attempts to be "authentic" with all the rust and Heath-Robinson devices.
#28
Criceto
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Posted 20 May 2004 - 22:18
Nothing at all to do with Kevin Costner's infuriating predilection for playing "messianic" parts...?
#29
dolomite
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Posted 20 May 2004 - 23:24
IIRC, in the film 'Those Magnificent Men in Their Flying Machines' there were flying scenes set at Brooklands, with cars racing round the banking in the background. How was that filmed I wonder?
#30
buldoggrrrr
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Posted 20 May 2004 - 23:47
I found some research on this a while back Dolomite, and apparently the scene was shot at a disused RAF base.
Much preferred Costner in Tin Cup. As a bit of a golf hack myself I did find myself screaming…TAKE A LONGER IRON YOU IDIOT!!!!! In the final scene.
Don’t I know about that 1% D-Type, maybe I should have all you guys on set to save me from a barrage of emails later.
Much preferred Costner in Tin Cup. As a bit of a golf hack myself I did find myself screaming…TAKE A LONGER IRON YOU IDIOT!!!!! In the final scene.
Don’t I know about that 1% D-Type, maybe I should have all you guys on set to save me from a barrage of emails later.
#31
Ron Scoma
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Posted 21 May 2004 - 06:11
May I suggest:
1) Call Harvey Weinstein. They specialize in low budget (20m) films and their distribution. And if that were not enough... he doesn't have all the money in the world, just most of it.
2) see the movie Cannes Man to understand how the movie business REALLY works.
Ron Scoma
1) Call Harvey Weinstein. They specialize in low budget (20m) films and their distribution. And if that were not enough... he doesn't have all the money in the world, just most of it.
2) see the movie Cannes Man to understand how the movie business REALLY works.
Ron Scoma
#32
buldoggrrrr
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Posted 21 May 2004 - 08:39
Funny you mention Harvey, he's just moving into new offices which a friend of mine is furnishing. Bit of a difficult bloke to get hold of directly, but we do have some links with Miramax.
Will have to find a copy of Cannes Man, sounds like a good one for the collection.
Will have to find a copy of Cannes Man, sounds like a good one for the collection.
#33
Macca
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Posted 21 May 2004 - 10:13
IIRC, in the film 'Those Magnificent Men in Their Flying Machines' there were flying scenes set at Brooklands, with cars racing round the banking in the background. How was that filmed I wonder?
I found some research on this a while back Dolomite, and apparently the scene was shot at a disused RAF base.
Yes, but what about the banking? (and the sewage farm!)
Casting suggestion:
'Bill' Wisdom = Rupert Everett ;)
PWM
#34
Mickey
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Posted 21 May 2004 - 10:37
Haven't seen Cannes Man, but another film which shows how the Hollywood studio business works is Robert Altman's The Player.Originally posted by Ron Scoma
2) see the movie Cannes Man to understand how the movie business REALLY works.
Andrew, best of luck with your film. I hope it'll be one to remember
#35
buldoggrrrr
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Posted 21 May 2004 - 12:25
We're going to be launching a new page of the website this evening where those supporting the Brooklands feature film will be able to voice their own opinions.
Would anyone mind if some of the contributions in this forum were included. Obviously we're looking for kind words, maybe constructive thoughts and stories about the circuit in general. When discussing this project to hard nosed financiers it is difficult at times to try and convey the mystic qualities that still linger there today. If you’ve ever stood on the banking, you’ll know exactly what I mean.
I very much look forward to whatever contributions you may wish to make.
We shall be offering a prize every month for the best submission. A limited edition print of the Napier-Railton drawn by me and with a retail value of £55. You’ll be able to see the print on display at the Brooklands movie website.
The website for the movie is:
http://www.brooklandsthemovie.co.uk/
Just follow the 'Have Your Say' banners at the top of the page.
Would anyone mind if some of the contributions in this forum were included. Obviously we're looking for kind words, maybe constructive thoughts and stories about the circuit in general. When discussing this project to hard nosed financiers it is difficult at times to try and convey the mystic qualities that still linger there today. If you’ve ever stood on the banking, you’ll know exactly what I mean.
I very much look forward to whatever contributions you may wish to make.
We shall be offering a prize every month for the best submission. A limited edition print of the Napier-Railton drawn by me and with a retail value of £55. You’ll be able to see the print on display at the Brooklands movie website.
The website for the movie is:
http://www.brooklandsthemovie.co.uk/
Just follow the 'Have Your Say' banners at the top of the page.
#36
lanciaman
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Posted 21 May 2004 - 12:36
The balance between "historical accuracy" and entertainment (i.e., boxoffice) is a tricky act. "Troy" being a good example: great spectacle, not a great movie, and any resemblance to Homer's "Iliad" being nearly coincidental. Once Brad Pitt was buffed and polished for the role of Achilles, the producers had to make sure he had enough suitable screen time to be appealing, never mind that it is reasonably easy to be the world's greatest warrior ir you are nearly invulnerable (the whole business with the gods and Trojans and Greeks was simply ignored in the film).
Steve McQueen attempted to make an accurate film about LeMans but it turned out over budget and under interesting except to we motorheads, tanking at the boxoffice. "Grand Prix" was the first modern movie about racing- in color with names and excellent sound and cinematography-- and did well enough but not monster business. Several years later "Winning" also did ok, winning I think an Oscar for sound and setting PLN on the path to being honored as the Oldest Active Racing Driver in History (which may be an interesting question to pose here: is he?), starring BTW the biggest boxoffice couple in Hollywood at the time.
Any producer needs to get more than mere race fans to the ticket counter in order to cover above the line production costs...if the objective is to make a serious film. "Titanic" was crapped up with fictitious storylines that were surpassed by the real ones, but somehow the stars employed had to be put to work in roles with demographic appeal.
A film that adheres to total historic accuracy is probably going to end up a documentary, or appealing to a very narrow group of people. But we can at least hope the Tiger Moths are parked for any WW1 flying scenes. (Still, the flying scenes in "The Blue Max" were good enough to almost offset historic license, the lesson being that a good story is more important than the right livery.)
Steve McQueen attempted to make an accurate film about LeMans but it turned out over budget and under interesting except to we motorheads, tanking at the boxoffice. "Grand Prix" was the first modern movie about racing- in color with names and excellent sound and cinematography-- and did well enough but not monster business. Several years later "Winning" also did ok, winning I think an Oscar for sound and setting PLN on the path to being honored as the Oldest Active Racing Driver in History (which may be an interesting question to pose here: is he?), starring BTW the biggest boxoffice couple in Hollywood at the time.
Any producer needs to get more than mere race fans to the ticket counter in order to cover above the line production costs...if the objective is to make a serious film. "Titanic" was crapped up with fictitious storylines that were surpassed by the real ones, but somehow the stars employed had to be put to work in roles with demographic appeal.
A film that adheres to total historic accuracy is probably going to end up a documentary, or appealing to a very narrow group of people. But we can at least hope the Tiger Moths are parked for any WW1 flying scenes. (Still, the flying scenes in "The Blue Max" were good enough to almost offset historic license, the lesson being that a good story is more important than the right livery.)
#37
Eric McLoughlin
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Posted 21 May 2004 - 12:52
The aircraft used in "The Blue Max" were pretty good replicas - mostly based on a small 1950/60s bi-plane called a Currie Wot. I've seen some of the replicas used up close and they do look quite good - apart from having metal propellors. The only incorrect looking plane in the film was a 1930s French fighter called a Morane 230 Parasol. It was used because, i) it was available, ii) looked suitably vintage and iii) bore a passing resemblence to a genuine World War One parasol fighter, the Fokker D V111.
One of my favourite World War 1 flying films is "Aces High". The replicas used in this film were based on a Belgian 1930s bi-plane called a Stampe SV4. The Stampe is of a similar age and design to the Tiger Moth but the modifications were done very well and they really did look like the SE5As they were portraying, except in plan view.
One of my favourite World War 1 flying films is "Aces High". The replicas used in this film were based on a Belgian 1930s bi-plane called a Stampe SV4. The Stampe is of a similar age and design to the Tiger Moth but the modifications were done very well and they really did look like the SE5As they were portraying, except in plan view.
#38
Vitesse2
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Posted 21 May 2004 - 12:58
Originally posted by lanciaman
Several years later "Winning" also did ok, winning I think an Oscar for sound and setting PLN on the path to being honored as the Oldest Active Racing Driver in History (which may be an interesting question to pose here: is he?),
Nope - the amazing Tom Delaney is now in his 90s and still going strong! He actually raced at Brooklands ....
#39
lanciaman
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Posted 21 May 2004 - 13:03
Originally posted by Eric McLoughlin
The only incorrect looking plane in the film was a 1930s French fighter called a Morane 230 Parasol. It was used because, i) it was available, ii) looked suitably vintage and iii) bore a passing resemblence to a genuine World War One parasol fighter, the Fokker D V111.
Thanks, I have wondered what it was they used at the end when George Peppard's wings fall off.
Do you have any background on how the burning dirigible shot was filmed in "Wings" when you see the downed crew running away from the collapsing, exploding zeppelin behind them; it was extremely well done for the silent era. This is a bit OT, I know....
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#40
Eric McLoughlin
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Posted 21 May 2004 - 13:15
Short answer - no 
#41
lanciaman
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Posted 21 May 2004 - 13:27
Originally posted by Vitesse2
Nope - the amazing Tom Delaney is now in his 90s and still going strong! He actually raced at Brooklands ....
Indeed!
#42
RTH
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Posted 21 May 2004 - 15:01
One of the few dramas that have impressed me in the last coupe of years has been "Foyle's War " set in the 1940's.
Two series of 6, 2hr made for TV films about a police detective at work in England during world war 2.
Michael Kitchen who is a well known face, played Inspector Foyle, but the rest of the cast were in the main not familiar faces . Maybe its a combination of script,actor and director and period sets, but I thought how well done it was and highly believable as the 1940's, a high quality result.
I would hope "Brooklands" could in the same way use new young British actors and actresses, who I feel sure are fully capable of making good drama, without the need of established 'stars' in much the same way as that great group of young british actors grew up together and made all those splendid english films in the 40's, 50's, & 60's all they need is a really good script.
Evidently to be a motor racing competitor in the 20's & 30's you needed to be wealthy - then that probably meant you were upper class and I think in the early days of the venue at least it had a lot in common with horse racing, clearly before the war there was a much greater class divide than post war.
I imagine it was a great place to be in its heyday - whether you took part or watched. Capturing that special atmosphere will be essential.
Two series of 6, 2hr made for TV films about a police detective at work in England during world war 2.
Michael Kitchen who is a well known face, played Inspector Foyle, but the rest of the cast were in the main not familiar faces . Maybe its a combination of script,actor and director and period sets, but I thought how well done it was and highly believable as the 1940's, a high quality result.
I would hope "Brooklands" could in the same way use new young British actors and actresses, who I feel sure are fully capable of making good drama, without the need of established 'stars' in much the same way as that great group of young british actors grew up together and made all those splendid english films in the 40's, 50's, & 60's all they need is a really good script.
Evidently to be a motor racing competitor in the 20's & 30's you needed to be wealthy - then that probably meant you were upper class and I think in the early days of the venue at least it had a lot in common with horse racing, clearly before the war there was a much greater class divide than post war.
I imagine it was a great place to be in its heyday - whether you took part or watched. Capturing that special atmosphere will be essential.
#43
Eric McLoughlin
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Posted 21 May 2004 - 15:32
"The right crowd.... and no crowding". Never was the upper classes' opinion of lesser breeds so succinctly put. And I have only heard this expression in reference to Brooklands. Were they really that dismissive of ordinary people at Brooklands or were they indulging in a self depracatory joke?
#44
Ron Scoma
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Posted 21 May 2004 - 15:56
FWIW....
Most movies are made because of the "deal" rather than the story.
Hence Driven with a very bankable Stallone as opposed to many good scripts, with an unknown John Doe, that end up lining parakeet cages.
Put together financing and ANY movie can be made. Star Wars sat around for years before being made. Now people are tossing money at Lucas for just about anything he does.
Before Passion of the Christ getting a religious themed movie made was almost impossible, with the success (HOW many hundreds of millions so far... ???!!!) can it be long before we see Godzilla vs. Satan, Battle for Earth; Part IV ?
In Gosford Park (a great, well written movie IMHO) there is a Bentley that the stereotypical cad from the 1930s drive.
Stereotypes sell, accuracy does not, usually. People will buy (see) what they can relate to, to some extent. Like the line from Star Trek, "the great philosophers like Plato and Socrates from Earth and R-Bunga from Rigel 4." If 1 and 2 are believable then 3 must be believable too.
For better or worse, if your movie is going to have the financing to be made, artistic license will become the coin of the realm.
Driven got panned by just about everyone, none more so than car people. But it got made and people got paid. That's what matters in the business. The mindset is that if Driven, a car movie, got bad receipts then other car movies will too. Distinguishing between a "good" car movie and "bad" car movie is insignificant in many eyes. They are all car movies. The end result is that a few projects, maybe good projects, got shelved for fear of losing the almighty dollar, which is the true god in popular cinema.
Oh well.
Sorry for the long post.
Ron
Most movies are made because of the "deal" rather than the story.
Hence Driven with a very bankable Stallone as opposed to many good scripts, with an unknown John Doe, that end up lining parakeet cages.
Put together financing and ANY movie can be made. Star Wars sat around for years before being made. Now people are tossing money at Lucas for just about anything he does.
Before Passion of the Christ getting a religious themed movie made was almost impossible, with the success (HOW many hundreds of millions so far... ???!!!) can it be long before we see Godzilla vs. Satan, Battle for Earth; Part IV ?
In Gosford Park (a great, well written movie IMHO) there is a Bentley that the stereotypical cad from the 1930s drive.
Stereotypes sell, accuracy does not, usually. People will buy (see) what they can relate to, to some extent. Like the line from Star Trek, "the great philosophers like Plato and Socrates from Earth and R-Bunga from Rigel 4." If 1 and 2 are believable then 3 must be believable too.
For better or worse, if your movie is going to have the financing to be made, artistic license will become the coin of the realm.
Driven got panned by just about everyone, none more so than car people. But it got made and people got paid. That's what matters in the business. The mindset is that if Driven, a car movie, got bad receipts then other car movies will too. Distinguishing between a "good" car movie and "bad" car movie is insignificant in many eyes. They are all car movies. The end result is that a few projects, maybe good projects, got shelved for fear of losing the almighty dollar, which is the true god in popular cinema.
Oh well.
Sorry for the long post.
Ron
#45
Rob29
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Posted 22 May 2004 - 07:38
seem to remember the banking was a wooden temporary replica built at another surrey airfield begining with 'B' thats as far as I can remember!Originally posted by Macca
Yes, but what about the banking? (and the sewage farm!)
Casting suggestion:
'Bill' Wisdom = Rupert Everett ;)
PWM
The real banking and buildings feature in an episode of Poirot which frequently turns up on one of the sat.channels.
#46
Eric McLoughlin
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Posted 22 May 2004 - 08:04
Booker?
"Aces High" was also largely shot there (ten years later).
"Aces High" was also largely shot there (ten years later).
#47
buldoggrrrr
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Posted 22 May 2004 - 08:18
Just wondering if anyone has visited the Sitges (Spain) or Montlhery (France), circuits in the last couple of years. Obviously the racing action in the film has to be spot on if I'm going to avoid a barrage of abuse from you guys, so for high and close up shots of cars jockying for position maybe certain sections of either track could be a good location. Any thoughts? I've seen the websites for both circuits. Apparently Peter Morley at Sitges is fighting off developers wanting to rip down the circuit, maybe I should start another thread to get him some support.
#48
lanciaman
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Posted 22 May 2004 - 12:24
Originally posted by Ron Scoma
FWIW....
Most movies are made because of the "deal" rather than the story.
Hence Driven with a very bankable Stallone as opposed to many good scripts, with an unknown John Doe, that end up lining parakeet cages.
Put together financing and ANY movie can be made. Star Wars sat around for years before being made. Now people are tossing money at Lucas for just about anything he does.
Before Passion of the Christ getting a religious themed movie made was almost impossible, with the success (HOW many hundreds of millions so far... ???!!!) can it be long before we see Godzilla vs. Satan, Battle for Earth; Part IV ?
Ron
Good post. Box office breeds box office. Westerns have languished for years because with few exceptions they don't make a lot of money; the recent "Open Range" may help stimulate more such projects. Or not.
SciFi and horror movies have been good to investors. And Dumb Behavior flicks. And Buddy Movies.
War films and car movies are generally expensive and their ROI is judged by the last release. If "Driven" is the benchmark it may be awhile before another racing movie is made. I expect one of the reasons "Kill Bill" sat around in talking stages for about 7 years was because it is hard to sell the concept of a 3-hour revenge movie starring a samauri sword wielding woman named The Bride.
#49
RTH
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Posted 07 July 2004 - 13:26
I hear producer Andrew Smith is out in Australia right now - I wonder if that can have some relavance to the film ? Is there any connection ?
#50
Doug Nye
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Posted 07 July 2004 - 15:24
Originally posted by Eric McLoughlin
"The right crowd.... and no crowding". Never was the upper classes' opinion of lesser breeds so succinctly put. And I have only heard this expression in reference to Brooklands. Were they really that dismissive of ordinary people at Brooklands or were they indulging in a self depracatory joke?
Sorry Eric - but your fears express a widely-held misperception about the famous Brooklands slogan which - I'm afraid - really amounts to inverted-snobbery twaddle...
'The Right Crowd and No Crowding' might well have been dreamed up by some pompous, class-conscious stuffed shirt - but from what I have been told over the years by some very good people to whom Brooklands was a second home - ranging throughout the social spectrum from penniless spectating schoolkid, mechanic, grease-monkey and motor-cyclist to tinker, tailor, soldier, sailor, wheeler-dealer, captain of industry, bloated plutocrat, zillionaire zilly-arse (almost everyone it seems to me) ... the famous slogan really came to mean the right motor racing crowd, and no crowding.
How often do we hear that catering for the general public means lowering standards which motor racing enthusiasts would prefer?
When the youthful Guy Griffiths pitched-up there for the first time in the mid-1930s with a battered umpteen-hand Bugatti he had just bought for resale, and couldn't get it to run cleanly, numerous regulars came out of the sheds and stalls unbidden, as if by magic, to give him a hand. The man who finally got it going well for him was Wally Hassan of Bentley and Outer Circuit Lap Record fame. People of such stature freely offered help and advice simply because here was a kindred spirit, so they gave him a hand. That was common. The rigid class-consciousness of the outside world in many ways (if not entirely) stopped at the iron gates, at least they certainly seem to have done so during the 1930s. I have heard this so often from so many reliable Brooklands habitues that I believe it is not just rose-tinted retrospect... Sure there were snobs and stuffed shirts and distinctions....but essentially 'The Right Crowd and No Crowding' could apply Brooklands-style just as well to the accessible paddock fraternity at Goodwood, or perhaps to us here in TNF... our common interest makes us all The Right Crowd.
DCN
