F1 drivers in CART

Hy,

I discovered thanks to the Motorsport tables that some F1 drivers drove in the C.A.R.T. Championship. - http://www.motorspor...p/summaries.asp

I found on the web a Bruno Giacomelli pic
Provided by Rob Ryder

a Roberto Guerrero one
Provided by Rainer Nyberg

and a Fabrizio Barbazza one
Provided by Rainer Nyberg

So, I am looking for over pictures of Formula 1 drivers :
- Derek DALY (1983-1984-1986-1987-1988)
- Désirée WILSON (1983-1986)
- Jan LAMMERS (1985-1986)
- Rupert KEEGAN (1985)
- Bruno GIACOMELLI (1984-1985)
- Mike THACKWELL (1984)
- Hector REBAQUE (1982)
- Roberto MORENO (1985-1986)
- Alan JONES (1985)
- Roberto GUERRERO (1984-1985-1986-1987-1988-...)
- Téo FABI (1983-1988-...)

Thanks

Mark Windecker's site (as referred to several times here in recent weeks) has several relevant shots of Guerrero, Fabi and Daly, along with Barbazza in his second stint with Arciero.

Mario Andretti, Teo Fabi, others, on these pages.

In August 1983 Désirée Wilson ran the CART event at Riverside International Raceway. I can't seem to find any of the on-track photos, but she was in the garage when I passed by. I believe the "34" car behind her is the one she raced.



Some kind of photo processing problem in the upper part of this scanned 4x6-inch print.

Originally posted by Frank S
I believe the "34" car behind her is the one she raced.

Yes, she finished out the year with the Wysards after Daly left mid-season.

Anyone know whatever happened to the Wysards?

What about

Danny Sullivan
Mario Andretti
Michael Andretti
Alex Zanardi
Jacques Villeneuve
Juan Pablo Montoya

??

You might as well throw in the European racers who drove in USAC, IRL and pre-war Indy races too.

Not sure ..... but I think there was a guy named Nigel something or other too ......

...and some guy from down south who preferred OJ over buttermilk.. Blasphemy!

Originally posted by Théodore33
a Roberto Guerrero one
Provided by Rainer Nyberg

Roberto Guerrero, best known in the US for inventing the gurerror.

Originally posted by KWSN - DSM
What about

Danny Sullivan
Mario Andretti
Michael Andretti
Alex Zanardi
Jacques Villeneuve
Juan Pablo Montoya

??

Raul Boesel ?
Corrado Fabi ?
Mauricio Gugelmin ?
Mark Blundell ?
Christian Danner ?
Mimmo Schiattarella ?
Andrea Montermini ?

Vern Schuppan?
Kevin Cogan?

etc..

Originally posted by Théodore33
Hy,

I found on the web a Bruno Giacomelli pic
Provided by Rob Ryder

...

Thanks

I like this picture

Originally posted by Eric McLoughlin
You might as well throw in the European racers who drove in USAC, IRL and pre-war Indy races too.

Here is my try for the pre WW II period.
I have only included drivers who drove in AAA events and on the other side European Grands Prix as listed in Sheldon.
European Grand Prix drivers in AAA events (from 1909)
Victo Hemery
Felice Nazzaro
Jules Goux
Albert Guyot
Theodore Pilette
Vincenzo Trucco
Paul Zuccarelli
Arthur Duray
Rene Thomas
Joseph Christiaens
Jean Porporato
Georges Boillot
Jean Chassagne
Dario Resta
Franz Heim ??
André Boillot
Paul Bablot
Louis Wagner
Pietro Bordino
Christian Lautenschlager
Tazio Nuvolari
Jean Pierre Wimille
Antonio Brivio
Raymond Sommer
Philippe Etancelin
Earl Howe
Giuseppe Farina
Brian Lewis
Bernd Rosemeyer
Ernst von Delius
Richard Seaman
Rudi Caracciola
Eugen Bjørnstad
Rene Le Begue
Luigi Villoresi*



American AAA drivers in European "Grands Prix"
Foxhall Keene
David Bruce-Brown
Jimmy Murphy
Ralph DePalma
Joe Boyer
Peter Kreis
Tommy Milton
Pete DePaolo
Earl Cooper
George Souders


These I found however I certainly not claim to be complete.
A big role played the Indy 500's 1914-1919 and the Vanderbilt cups 1936-37.
I did not include the American period before 1909 and I included the American GP 1910 which was not an AAA event.


Gerrit Stevens

Not forgetting Ian Ashley, I hope!



From the photos I took in '87/8 I have shots of the following ex or to be F1 drivers; Daly, Michael & Mario Andretti, Boesel, Guerrero, Rahal, Cogan, Ongais, Barbazza, Sullivan and Fittipaldi. Others who tested F1 cars are; Mears, Garza, Al Jr, Geoff Brabham and Ballabio (and Luyendijk?).

Twinny

Graham McRae did a CART race in 1986.

Really? I didn't know that, Vicuna! I only 'had him down' for Indy in 1973.

Twinny

Tee Dub I do hope you can find it in your 47 year old heart to forgive me.

It was 1987.

My sincere aplogies to all.

30 August in fact.

His one and only CART race was slightly longer than his one and only F1 race but shorther than his one and only Indy 500.

I think the F1 race lastest about 100 yards - the shortest F1 career ever?

Anyway, Elkhart Lake, car No. 36 was 21st but was out after 18 of 50 laps.

It was a "N.F.W.Racing March 86C - DFX"

Hey; less of my age!!

Really, I don't recall him doing any form of CART/USAC stuff at all post-'73; so one year difference is inconsequential to me!

But thanks for the info, nevertheless.

Twinny

I've read in a number of places that Stirling Moss' dad raced in a 1920s Indy 500. Any corroboration of that anywhere?

Originally posted by Eric McLoughlin
I've read in a number of places that Stirling Moss' dad raced in a 1920s Indy 500. Any corroboration of that anywhere?

guessing .. but http://www.indy500.c...=Alfred E. Moss

Originally posted by Vicuna
His one and only CART race was slightly longer than his one and only F1 race but shorther than his one and only Indy 500.

I think the F1 race lastest about 100 yards - the shortest F1 career ever?

Anyway, Elkhart Lake, car No. 36 was 21st but was out after 18 of 50 laps.

It was a "N.F.W.Racing March 86C - DFX"

Let's not forget July 8, 1984, the Budweiser Cleveland Grand Prix.

25th (Retired) Graham McRae Pace Electronics March 83C-Cosworth DFX - 23 laps - Spun off
Qualified 26th of 28th.

Paul Tracy tested an F1 car as well as Willy T. Ribbs and while Jacques Villeneuve DNQ in F1, he'd be listed I guess. A

Pre WW II
Louis Chiron: 1929 Indy 500 start.

Post WW II

Ignoring the fact that Indianapolis was a WDC race 1950-1960.

Statistic until 2002!!

WDC = World Drivers Championship (in 1952-53 this was Formula II)
INDY = The totals of AAA, USAC, CART, IRL if a driver was active in more series.

Alberto Ascari: pre WDC + 31 WDC (1950-55), 1 AAA (Indy 1952)
Troy Ruttman: 1 WDC (F 1958), AAA/USAC 53 (1950-64) incl. non championship races 1950-59
Rodger Ward: 2 WDC (USA 1959 & 63), 160 AAA/USAC (1950-66) incl.non champ. races 1950-59
Jack Brabham: 126 WDC (1955-70), 5 USAC (1961-70)
Lloyd Ruby: 1 WDC (USA 1961), 176 USAC (1958-77)
Dan Gurney: 86 WDC (1959-70), 28 USAC (1962-70)
Jim Clark: 72 WDC (1960-68), 9 USAC (1963-69)
Walt Hansgen: 2 WDC (USA 1961-64), 2 USAC (Indy 1964-65)
Masten Gregory: 38 WDC (1957-65), 1 USAC (Indy 1965)
Graham Hill: 176 WDC (1958-75), 3 USAC (Indy 1966-68)
Ronny Bucknum: 11 WDC (1964-66), 23 USAC (1966-70)
Denis Hulme: 112 WDC (1961-67), 4 USAC (Indy 1967-71)
Jackie Stewart: 99 WDC (1965-73), 2 USAC (Indy 1966-67)
Peter Revson: 30 WDC (1964-74), 17 USAC (1966-73)
Lucien Bianchi: 17 WDC (1959-68), 1 USAC (1967 Trenton 150)
Jochen Rindt: 60 WDC (1964-70), 2 USAC (Indy 1967-69)
John Surtees: 111 WDC (1960-72), 1 USAC (1967 Riverside 300)
George Follmer: 12 WDC (1973), 25 USAC (1967-75)
Mario Andretti: 128 WDC (1968-82), INDY: 404 (1964-94): 196 USAC + 208 CART
Bobby Unser: 1 WDC (USA 1968), INDY: 263 (1964-81) 227 USAC + 36 CART
David Hobbs: 7 WDC (1967-74), 8 USAC (1969-75)
John Cannon: 1 WDC (USA 1971), 17 USAC (1968-74)
Mark Donohue: 14 WDC (1971-75), 29 USAC (1968-73)
Sam Posey: 2 WDC (US 1971-72), 13 USAC (1969-74)
Graham McRae: 1 WDC (GB), 3 INDY (1973-87), 1 USAC (Indy 1973) + 2 CART (Cleveland 84, Road America 87)
Skip Barber: 5 WDC (1971-72), 2 USAC (1974 Ontario 500, heat & final)
Danny Ongais: 4 WDC (1977-78) , 88 INDY (1976-97) 34 USAC + 52 CART + 2 IRL
Clay Regazzoni: 132 WDC (1970-80), 1 USAC (Indy 1977)
Vern Schuppan: 9 WDC (1972-77), 31 INDY (1976-82) 12 USAC + 19 CART
Teddy Pilette: 1 WDC (B 1974), 1 CART (Watkins Glen 1981). The only grandfather/grandson who achieved this statistical fact.
Hector Rebaque: 41 WDC (1977-81), 6 INDY (1982) 1 USAC (Indy) + 5 CART
Derek Daly: 49 WDC (1978-82), 66 CART (1982-89)
Bobby Rahal: 2 WDC (USA, CAN 1978), 264 CART (1982-98)
Danny Sullivan: 15 WDC (1983), 170 CART (1982-95)
Kenneth Acheson: 3 WDC (1983-85), 1 CART (Meadowlands 1984)
Jim Crawford: 2 WDC (1975), 18 CART (1984-93)
Corrado Fabi: 12 WDC (1983-84), 4 CART (1984)
Teo Fabi: 64 WDC (1982-87), 118 CART (1983-96)
Emerson Fittipaldi: 144 WDC (1970-80), 195 CART (1984-96)
Bruno Giacomelli: 69 WDC (1977-90), 11 CART (1984-85)
Roberto Guerrero : 21 WDC (1982-83), 143 INDY (1984-2001) 118 CART + 25 IRL
Mike Thackwell: 2 WDC (1980-84), 2 CART (Laguna Seca & Las Vegas 1984)
Ian Ashley: 4 WDC (1974-77), 5 CART (1985-87)
Raul Boesel: 23 WDC (1982-83), 199 INDY (1985-2002), 172 CART + 27 IRL
Jan Lammers: 23 WDC (1979-92), 10 CART (1985-86)
Rupert Keegan: 25 WDC (1977-82), 3 CART (1985)
Roberto Moreno: 42 WDC (1982-95), 103 INDY (1985-2001) 101 CART + 2 IRL
Chico Serra: 18 WDC (1981-83), 1 CART (Portland 1985)
Alan Jones: 116 WDC (1975-86), 1 CART (Road America 1985)
Eddie Cheever: 132 WDC (1978-89), 152 INDY (1986-2002) 82 CART + 70 IRL
Fabrizio Barbazza: 8 WDC (1991-93), 25 CART (1987-92)
Christian Danner: 36 WDC (1985-89), 18 CART (1992-97)
Gregor Foitek: 7 WDC (1989-90), 2 CART (1992)
Stefan Johansson: 79 WDC (1980-91), 73 CART (1992-96)
Michael Andretti: 13 WDC (1993), 311 INDY (1983-2002), 309 CART + 2 IRL
Andrea Chiesa: 3 WDC (1992), 1 CART (1993)
Bertrand Gachot: 47 WDC (1990-97), 1 CART (Toronto 1993)
Olivier Grouillard: 41 WDC (1989-92), 11 CART (1993)
Mauricio Gugelmin: 74 WDC (1988-92), 147 CART (1993-2001)
Nigel Mansell: 187 WDC (1980-95), 31 CART (1993-94)
Nelson Piquet: 204 WDC (1978-91), 1 CART (Indy 1993)
Mauro Baldi: 36 WDC (1982-85), 1 CART (Mid Ohio 1994)
Andrea Montermini: 20 WDC (1994-96), 11 CART (1993-99)
Mimmo Schiattarella: 7 WDC (1994-95), 5 CART (1994-98)
Christian Fittipaldi: 40 WDC (1992-94), 134 CART (1995-2002)
Giovanni Lavaggi: 7 WDC (1995-96), 2 CART (1994)
Eliseo Salazar: 24 WDC (1981-83), 73 INDY (1995-2002), 20 CART + 53 IRL
Michele Alboreto: 194 WDC (1981-94), 5 IRL (1996)
Mark Blundell: 61 WDC (1991-95), 81 CART (1996-2000)
Jan Magnussen: 25 WDC (1995-98), 17 CART (1996-99)
Max Papis: 7 WDC (1995), 108 INDY (1996-2002), 106 CART, 2 IRL
Jacques Villeneuve: 116 WDC (1996-2002), 32 CART (1994-95)
Alex Zanardi: 41 WDC (1991-99), 66 CART (1996-2001)
JJ Lehto: 62 WDS (1989-94), 19 CART (1998)
Tarso Marques: 24 WDC (1996-2001), 22 CART (1999-2000)
Juan Pablo Montoya: 34 WDC (2001-02), 41 INDY (1999-2000) 40 CART + 1 IRL
Tora Takagi: 32 WDC (1998-99), 39 CART (2001-02)
Cristiano da Matta: ?? WDC, 79 CART (1999-2002)
Alex Yoong: 14 WDC (2001-2002), ?? CART (2003)

I have counted 54 drivers who drove in the WDC and in CART.


The next WDC drivers drove in the non championship USAC races at Monza 1957 and 1958.
Jack Fairman: 1957-58
Ivor Bueb: 1958
Juan Manuel Fangio: 1958
Masten Gregory: 1958
Mike Hawthorn: 1958
Phil Hill: 1958
Stirling Moss: 1958
Luigi Musso: 1958
Harry Schell: 1958
Maurice Trintignant: 1958
Ninian Sanderson: non championship F1 races + 1957 Monza 500
John/Jock Lawrence: non championship F1 races + 1957 Monza 500

Chris Amon drove in the non championship USAC race at Mount Fuji 1966

David Brabham, Kevin Cogan, Vincenzo Sospiri, Jacques Villeneuve and Desire Wilson failed to qualify for WDC races.
Mike Spence had a fatal crash in Indianapolis 1968.

Al Unser, AJ Foyt, Sam Posey & Swede Savage started with F5000 cars in the non-championship Questor GP (1971). Sheldon mentions this race as the first United States (West) Grand Prix.

It is very well possible I have forgotten some drivers also I have not looked for non-championship races apart from the racers mentioned above.


Gerrit Stevens

Gerrit

Fascinating statisics - thanks.

Saddest, by far of course (well IMHO), is Mike Spence...

Thanks all the same. Still can't get over Graham McRae, as recently as 1987... (hope he's continuing to improve).

MCS

Originally posted by gerrit stevens
Alex Yoong: 14 WDC (2001-2002), ?? CART (2003)

Yoong made 4 ChampCar appearances last year.

Originally posted by gerrit stevens
David Brabham...failed to qualify for WDC races.

You mean Gary (2 CART appearances at Surfer's).

Originally posted by Vicuna
I think the F1 race lastest about 100 yards - the shortest F1 career ever?

He did at least get a lap or 2 before Jody Scheckter got involved. And for those who say it did not count, ask Andrea de Adamich.

Shortest F1 race career - Marco Apicella? To the 1st chicane at Monza?

Originally posted by ensign14
Shortest F1 race career - Marco Apicella? To the 1st chicane at Monza?

I think it might be a close-run thing between 'Cassius' (who didn't complete a lap, BTW), Apicella and even Mike Thackwell for that dubious honour. And Miguel Angel Guerra wouldn't be too far off the podium either...

Twinny

Don't forget Thackwell did the 84 Canadian as well.

Apichella might just nose Graham out.

Originally posted by theunions


You mean Gary (2 CART appearances at Surfer's).

Thanks for the correction, you are right.

Gerrit Stevens

Originally posted by Mac Lark

Don't forget Thackwell did the 84 Canadian as well.

Good point, Mac; the brain had switched to 'debut' mode!

Twinny

May I add Shinji Nakano, Norberto Fontana and Justin Wilson?

Add Mika Salo also. He did about half a season with PKR last year.

And Gaston Mazzacane, who is driving for Coyne this year.

Thanks to everyone.

For the moment, I have only found one pic of Mike Thackwell.

http://www.myhraphot...ca_cart_06.html

Anyone better ?

Originally posted by Twin Window
Good point, Mac; the brain had switched to 'debut' mode!

Twinny

No worries mate - the career that might have been..

Shortest debut = Paolo Barilla, whose 1st Minardi drive was a bit like Raymond Sommer's BRM debut...

Didn't Christian Fittipaldi go into American racing after his rather brief F1 career?

Originally posted by gbl
May I add Shinji Nakano, Norberto Fontana and Justin Wilson?

some corrected stats including also Salo and Mazzacane.
Stats until last weekend.

Michael Andretti: 13 WDC (1993), 315 Indycars (1983-2003), 309 CART + 6 IRL
Max Papis: 7 WDC (1995), 115 INDY (1996-2003), 113 CART, 2 IRL
Jacques Villeneuve: 130 WDC (1996-2003), 32 CART (1994-95)
Tarso Marques: 24 WDC (1996-2001), 25 CART (1999-2003)
Norberto Fontana: 4 WDC (1997), 8 CART (2000)
Juan Pablo Montoya: 63 WDC (2001-02), 41 Indycars (1999-2000) 40 CART + 1 IRL
Tora Takagi: 32 WDC (1998-99), 67 INDY (2001-04) 39 CART + 28 IRL
Cristiano da Matta: 28 WDC (2003-04), 79 CART (1999-2002)
Alex Yoong: 14 WDC (2001-02), 4 CART (2003)
Mika Salo: 110 WDC (1994-2002), 4 CART (2003)
Shinji Nakano, 33 WDC (1997-98), 58 INDY (2000-03), 56 CART + 2 IRL
Gaston Mazzacane : 21 WDC (2000-01), 7 CART (2004)
Justin Wilson: 16 WDC (2003), 9 CART (2004)

Naoki Hattori failed also to qualify in WDC races.


Gerrit Stevens

Originally posted by Théodore33
Thanks to everyone.

For the moment, I have only found one pic of Mike Thackwell.

http://www.myhraphot...ca_cart_06.html

Anyone better ?

Go to artemisimages -> Champcar -> Las Vegas 84

We could also mention Pedro Rodriguez, who tried to qualify for the Indy 500.

Originally posted by bkalb
Didn't Christian Fittipaldi go into American racing after his rather brief F1 career?

Yes he did, see my stats message.
Christian Fittipaldi: 40 WDC (1992-94), 134 CART (1995-2002)


Gerrit Stevens

1983 Desire Wilson/Wysard PR photo on eBay

With TOYOTA in the background that picture should be from the LBGP 84, right?

Originally posted by gbl
With TOYOTA in the background that picture should be from the LBGP 84, right?

Possibly (she DNQ'ed at LBGP '84 in a March 83C) but not certainly; I do recall seeing Toyota signage at other street courses in those days.

They had a different paint job in 83 and the only street course in 83 was Las Vegas, which didn't had a hair pin (I think).

Hy,

On Tuesday April 12, 2005, Roberto Moreno tested an IRL car on the Sear's Point Track.

He said : "I was so surprised today with how good these cars are. I haven't driven a Formula car for a long time, and these cars remind of the good days in Formula One, the late 1980s and early 1990s. They have a lot of grip and a fantastic feel. I really enjoyed it. I have to thank Tony (George) and Ed (Carpenter) and Larry (Curry) for asking me to test. I'm here to help them with the setup and help Ed get going on the road courses. I had so much fun today. It was more fun than I've had since the Formula One days " - From IRL web site.

Some Pictures :






All from www.motorsport.com.

Hy,

Derek Daly in a Lola T87/Cosworth at Road America in 1987.



Copyright Mark Windecker (a very great photographer )

Onr thing that surprises me is that so few ex-F1s "stars" did all that well in CART. Specifically Derek Daly and Stefan Johannson, other that Emerson, Cheever, Zanardi and Nigel who really did well? Not Piquet, Boesel, etc.

Some went the other way like Juan and Jacque with mixed results and of course Alex did transition back very well...

Why do think that is?

Originally posted by Théodore33
Copyright Mark Windecker (a very great photographer )

[/B]

Thank you for the comment!

Not only did Daly drive in both series, but he is one of a few that drove in both series on the same course. Both on the downtown track in Detroit.
1982 F1


1989 CART


There may be more, but along with Daly, these drivers drove in both series in Detroit

Boesel did F1 in 1982 and CART in 1989 and 1990
Cheever did F1 in 1982 and CART in 1990
Teo Fabi did F1 in 1986 and 1987 and CART in 1989 and 1990
Guegelmin did F1 in 1988 and CART (but on Belle Isle) 1998-2001

Might be more to this list, but these are the once I could could come up with.

I stunned how poorly the ex-F1 types do over here...look at Long Beach today...why is that?