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Oh Nigel...

Started by Ross Stonefeld , Oct 07 2004 10:33

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42 replies to this topic

#1 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 07 October 2004 - 10:33

regarding the hoo-ha over the 2005 British GP...

"There will be a major announcement on this matter very shortly — and all I can say before then is that there has been an exciting development that I am very proud to be part of," Mansell told the Sun.

"It will mark a very important step forward and everyone involved believes that it could mean Grand Prix racing continuing in this country — which of course it must as the birthplace of the sport.

Discuss amongst yourselves...

and bonjour :wave:

#2 Mickey

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Posted 07 October 2004 - 10:35

The French will be pretty pissed about that

#3 Gary Davies

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Posted 07 October 2004 - 10:49

Methinks this is more about Mr. Mansell's butchery of the English language than a lack of historical awareness.

Perhaps in this case, the substance is of greater significance than the pedantry.

That said, one would have preferred: "...an exciting development of which I am very proud to be part."

;)

#4 Garagiste

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Posted 07 October 2004 - 10:54

Hmmm, Gp racing no - I supose racing on purpose built circuits we could have a claim for though, or the first world championship race - which is of course I'm sure what he meant.

#5 RTH

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Posted 07 October 2004 - 10:57

About what you would expect.

#6 Gary Davies

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Posted 07 October 2004 - 10:58

#7 BRG

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Posted 07 October 2004 - 11:34

Yes, well, racing drivers have rarely proved to be the most trustworthy custodians of the sport's history and heritage. They are too busy making new history to worry much about what has gone before. And Our Noige, whilst by no means thick, was never considered to be amongst the more cerebrally gifted drivers. He is from Birmingham, after all.....*

*soft Southerner dives for cover

#8 ian senior

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Posted 07 October 2004 - 11:47

It's easy to take the you-know-what about Nige, his accent, his lack of knowledge of motor racing history, and just Nige generally, but it actually is good news and I hope it comes off. Let's hope he sees it through and doesn't suddenly go off the idea, as with his McLaren "comeback". I'd prefer it if he was trying to get Brands Hatch up to Ecclestone standard, though. Or Donington. Or even Oulton. On second thoughts, no, that isn't a good idea. I like circuits with character.

#9 SEdward

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Posted 07 October 2004 - 11:56

I must have missed something. What exactly does he mean? Looks like he's caught the corporate-speak virus (lots of words that don't mean anything). After reading that quote, I'm none the wiser about anything at all.

Edward.

#10 ensign14

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Posted 07 October 2004 - 12:27

Originally posted by BRG
And Our Noige, whilst by no means thick, was never considered to be amongst the more cerebrally gifted drivers. He is from Birmingham, after all.....*

...who speaks with the same accent as the 2 most important figures in English language history - Shakespeare and Dr Johnson. -ensoignfoortayn

#11 zac510

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Posted 07 October 2004 - 13:17

Brands Hatch would be fantastic. In reality, what are the chances?

Or maybe he is talking about a home race - Isle of Man! :stoned:

#12 Garagiste

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Posted 07 October 2004 - 13:27

No, it's Silverstone still - on the Atlas front page now.
Dr Johnson must have lost that accent with all his time in Saaarf Landon, surely?

#13 ensign14

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Posted 07 October 2004 - 13:51

Whatever the merits of Brands Hatch as a circuit, I find it hard to consider it a British Grand Prix when it has easier access for most of Belgium than for most of Britain. Silverstone is bad enough for those north of Manchester...

#14 Vitesse2

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Posted 07 October 2004 - 14:11

Originally posted by ensign14
...who speaks with the same accent as the 2 most important figures in English language history - Shakespeare and Dr Johnson. -ensoignfoortayn

And Ross, apparently!

whale oil beef hooked

#15 Raemius

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Posted 07 October 2004 - 14:23

Originally posted by zac510
Brands Hatch would be fantastic. In reality, what are the chances?

Or maybe he is talking about a home race - Isle of Man!

He has not lived in the Isle of Man for quite some years now. He moved back to Devon where he built a golf course and then moved to Jersey, his current home.

#16 MichaelJP

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Posted 07 October 2004 - 15:36

Originally posted by zac510
Brands Hatch would be fantastic. In reality, what are the chances?

I really do hope not. Making a circuit a "superb F1 racing facility" these days means to:-

a) Remove all bumps, gradient and camber.
b) Sharpen all corners, Tilke-style.
c) Add miles of tarmac run-off and site the grandstands to require binoculars to see cars.
d) Build top-notch futuristic steel and glass media/team facilities

Don't mind them doing all that to Silverstone, but leave Brands, Donington and Oulton alone.

- Michael

#17 FLB

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Posted 07 October 2004 - 15:48

Originally posted by MichaelJP

I really do hope not. Making a circuit a "superb F1 racing facility" these days means to:-

a) Remove all bumps, gradient and camber.
b) Sharpen all corners, Tilke-style.
c) Add miles of tarmac run-off and site the grandstands to require binoculars to see cars.
d) Build top-notch futuristic steel and glass media/team facilities

Don't mind them doing all that to Silverstone, but leave Brands, Donington and Oulton alone.

- Michael

Well, when the American vice-presidential debate was held this week, I was reminded of 1988.

To paraphrase the then Democrat running-mate, Lloyd Benson:

'Herr (i.e. Herr Tilke), I knew John Hugenholtz. You're no John Hugenholtz!'

#18 BRG

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Posted 07 October 2004 - 16:01

Originally posted by ensign14
...who speaks with the same accent as the 2 most important figures in English language history - Shakespeare and Dr Johnson. -ensoignfoortayn

But fortunately, Will Shakespeare wrote all his stuff down, otherwise none of us could have understood what he was on about!

And wasn't Dr Johnson a Scot? Or am I just thinking of Robbie Coltrane's memorable portrayal in Blackadder?

#19 djellison

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Posted 07 October 2004 - 16:21

Formula One was born at Silverstone on the 13th of May 1950.

Nige speaks the truth.

The first purpose built race track was in the UK as well.

Yeah - motorsport and the FIA may have been founded in France - but F1 started right here in Blighty.

Doug

#20 Garagiste

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Posted 07 October 2004 - 16:35

I do hope you've got your tin hat on - incoming! :lol:

#21 Ray Bell

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Posted 07 October 2004 - 16:38

Originally posted by Garagiste
I do hope you've got your tin hat on - incoming!

Absolutely...

http://forums.atlasf...&threadid=56427

#22 ensign14

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Posted 07 October 2004 - 16:39

Originally posted by BRG
And wasn't Dr Johnson a Scot? Or am I just thinking of Robbie Coltrane's memorable portrayal in Blackadder?

No, he was Lichfield born & bred. Pre-Industrial Revolution, when it was the only place for miles around with a cathedral and Birmingham was a market.

#23 BRG

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Posted 07 October 2004 - 17:00

Originally posted by ensign14

A salutary comment for all of us on the power of television to misinform!

Now I shall have to try to shake this mental image of Dr Johnson wi' a Scots accent.

#24 Don Capps

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Posted 07 October 2004 - 17:06

Originally posted by djellison
Formula One was born at Silverstone on the 13th of May 1950.

Nige speaks the truth.

The first purpose built race track was in the UK as well.

Yeah - motorsport and the FIA may have been founded in France - but F1 started right here in Blighty.

Doug

If you are serious, you might as as well be prepared to find yourself as incorrect and grossly misinformed as Mansell.

#25 panzani

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Posted 07 October 2004 - 17:17

Shouldn't we TNFers applaud Mansell's initiative of keeping Silverstone F1 races heritage alive even though he made an historical mistake in his interview? The same misinformation FIA carries on and on - here, there, and everywhere - by the way...

IMO, the positive note is Silverstone - actually the GB Grand Prix - has a chance to stay on F1 schedule for the next 7 years. Thanks for that Nigel and all other undisclosed people!

#26 Don Capps

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Posted 07 October 2004 - 17:35

Done deal or simply talk? Plus, I imagine historical accuracy is not an expectation in such manners.

#27 panzani

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Posted 07 October 2004 - 17:42

Originally posted by Don Capps
Done deal or simply talk? Plus, I imagine historical accuracy is not an expectation in such manners.

I think you are right Don on both statements - it is PR speak and we don't expect accuracy from them, do we? On the other hand it is good news if it becomes true - or is it not?

#28 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 07 October 2004 - 18:32

For all its 'epicenter of racing', the UK sure doesnt seem to care much for F1 unless Nigel does something, Jenson does something, or the GP is about to get axed(again)

#29 Peter Morley

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Posted 07 October 2004 - 18:39

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
regarding the hoo-ha over the 2005 British GP...

"There will be a major announcement on this matter very shortly — and all I can say before then is that there has been an exciting development that I am very proud to be part of," Mansell told the Sun.

"It will mark a very important step forward and everyone involved believes that it could mean Grand Prix racing continuing in this country — which of course it must as the birthplace of the sport.

Discuss amongst yourselves...

and bonjour

Well Silverstone did hold the very first World Championship GP.
Gievn that current Formula 1 has very little to do with motor racing, his statement is OK.

And Brooklands was the worlds 1st motordrome so the country is the birthplace of circuit racing.

What is hard to imagine is how involving Niggle will help any attempt at 'saving' the British GP, he is hardly a great spokesman (e.g. no one wants to listen to him).

Isn't he one of the drivers that is meant to be taking part in this new Grand Prix Master's (?) series - perhaps that is what he is on about, the Bernie GP is going to be replaced by the Old Fogey's GP (which might not be a bad thing, at least they knew how to overtake).

Personally I think the British GP has been going downhill since they stopped using Brands, anyone that thinks a race on an airfield is better than one that involves blind brows, adverse camber etc deserves Tilke F1 tracks.
Given that the last decent British GP was when they held it at somewhere other than Silverstone (Donington) I won't lose too much sleep over the BRDC's loss (and ultimately Bernie's, if he wants F1 to become a 3rd world championship he is welcome to it - there is still plenty of real racing to be seen).

#30 SeanValen

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Posted 07 October 2004 - 18:48

Maybe Prost can save the French GP.

:smoking:

#31 stuartbrs

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Posted 08 October 2004 - 00:38

Would have been nice if Prost could have saved his own team

#32 bill moffat

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Posted 08 October 2004 - 05:53

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld

"There will be a major announcement on this matter very shortly — and all I can say before then is that there has been an exciting development that I am very proud to be part of," Mansell told the Sun.

Somebody in the crowd has thrown him his gloves back ??;)

#33 ian senior

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Posted 08 October 2004 - 08:16

I gather from The Independent this morning that the consortium involves one Peter Nelkin. This man needs to be watched very closely. He is a former chairman of Luton Town football club. His agenda was asset stripping and property development, and showed no sign of any interest at all in taking the club forward.

#34 Vitesse2

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Posted 08 October 2004 - 08:48

This is all beginning to smell a bit fishy. Bernie says he's been talking to Kim Cockburn (who she?) about this "for a long time". Other names I've seen quoted are Robb Gravett (ex-tin top driver) and David Phipps (journo and general fixer). Brand Synergy are apparently backed by Quintain Estates, who are the main developers of the Wembley Stadium site .... hmmm

A report on the Mirror's website says they're considering moving the GP to Donington, although that seems to be a reinterpretation of a statement which Cockburn gave to the Telegraph:

"We have an agreement to sign the contract for the British Grand Prix contract for seven years. We will be signing the deal shortly, as soon as Bernie and I can get together," Cockburn said. "We have been in talks with the BRDC since July last year. Those talks are continuing. "Wherever the race is, we will have to build a new pits and paddock complex, so it does not make any difference whether it is at Donington or Silverstone. But obviously Silverstone would be our choice.''

#35 Garagiste

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Posted 08 October 2004 - 09:05

You're not wrong - with Bernie still banging on about the facilities at Silverstone, talk of Donnington is just bizarre.

#36 djellison

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Posted 08 October 2004 - 09:20

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
the UK sure doesnt seem to care much for F1

Oh - absolutely. What care has Britain for F1.

I mean, we build 60% of the cars - but what does that matter - what has Britain done for F1?

Well - apart from 60% of the cars and 40% of the engines - what has Britain done for F1?

OK - apart from 60% of the cars, 40% of the engines, hosting the very first F1 GP, what has Britain done for F1.

Well - apart from build 60% of the cars, 40% of the engines, host the very first F1GP, produce Mansell, Hill Snr, Hill Jnr, Clark, Stewart, Moss, Hawthorn, Hunt and Williams.

F1? Nah - we dont give a damn.

Sure - we may not have INVENTED Formula One any more than Chester Invented me. But Chester is my birthplace - and Silverstone is F1's.

Doug

#37 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 08 October 2004 - 09:39

You can take your flag down now. I said Britain doesnt care for F1, and fundamentally they dont. For all the praise they get, F1 has a very low impact within the population; unless Jenson, Button, or Ecclestone have done something to get their dander up.

#38 ensign14

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Posted 08 October 2004 - 09:57

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
For all the praise they get, F1 has a very low impact within the population; unless Jenson, Button, or Ecclestone have done something to get their dander up.

On that basis, though, who does? Italy cares about Ferrari but did not give two hoots for Alfa or Dallara and does not for Minardi, and most of the other countries can be accused of only watching F1 for their favourites.

#39 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 08 October 2004 - 10:10

True, but F1 (and motorsport in general) has a massively higher profile here in Italy than I've seen in the UK. That said one must point out the dominant party in both F1 and MotoGP is of Italian concern, but nevertheleess just my initial impression day to day is that motorised competition is much more popular here, and not as popular as people are made to believe in the UK.

#40 Mickey

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Posted 08 October 2004 - 11:00

What Ross says is absolutely right.

Sure, the fact that Ferrari and Rossi dominate has further increased interest here, but even in the 90ies, with British teams and drivers winning, the level of interest was much higher in Italy than in Britain.

I lived in the UK for 5 years then, and all the F1 that I could see on TV was 1 hour on Saturday and 2 on Sunday. Here in Italy there are plenty of pre-qualifying programmes, pre and post race programmes, weekly programmes (whether there is a race or not), the warm up when it still existed, and of course both qualifying sessions. Besides TV, we have daily sports papers with at least an F1 page, and that's every day of the week. And there is regular coverage for many other forms of motor sports.

How much is that down to the presence of Ferrari and the surrounding myth? Plenty, sure, but that doesn't change the fact that motor sports are more popular here than in Britain.

#41 zac510

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Posted 08 October 2004 - 11:24

Originally posted by MichaelJP
I really do hope not. Making a circuit a "superb F1 racing facility" these days means to:-

a) Remove all bumps, gradient and camber.

- Michael

Bummer, thats exactly what I liked about Brands!

#42 BRG

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Posted 08 October 2004 - 12:10

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
I said Britain doesnt care for F1, and fundamentally they dont. .

Ross is right. It may be some sort of peculiarly British thing, but we give little regard to anything that we are any good at. It says in the Bible something like "A prophet is without honour in his own country" and it is certainly true for Britain.

We make a huge fuss about football, cricket and so on where we regularly get stuffed by other countries far weaker on papaer than us. Yet where we excell - motorsport or rowing for instance - it gets very limited media coverage or public attention. Maybe is is the underdog syndrome - the British have always been suckers for supporting the underdog whereas we tend to take for granted, or even actively dislike, those at the top of the heap.

So with the British GP, as long as it part of the F1 WC, the general public have no regard or interest. But once it is threatened, then it becomes an underdog, up against the threat from Johhny Foreigner and all of the sudden the whole country is up in arms. Cancelling the British GP has generated far more media coverage then the event ever gets when it runs.

Anyway, it seems that there is still a way to go before this saga reaches its conclusion. And doubtless Bernie will end up trousering yet another nice wad of cash as a result.

#43 santori

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Posted 02 October 2005 - 22:38

Originally posted by BRG
But fortunately, Will Shakespeare wrote all his stuff down, otherwise none of us could have understood what he was on about!

And wasn't Dr Johnson a Scot? Or am I just thinking of Robbie Coltrane's memorable portrayal in Blackadder?

Johnson, to a Scot, about Scotland: "That it is a very vile country, to be sure, Sir"
The Scot: "Well, Sir! God made it."
Johnson: "Certainly he did; but we must always remember that he made it for Scotchmen, and comparisons are odious, Mr. S, but God made hell."

(Much of it was just teasing, though, not least of his Scottish friend and biographer, James Boswell).

Hasn't a Shakespeare play just been produced in Britain with the accents of his day?

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