Hi,
have anybody more infos about TUI Formula 2 cars.
Teamowner? Constructor?Drivers?Pics?
thanks for help
Tui Formula 2 cars
Started by
uwe_sautter
, Feb 25 2005 10:33
23 replies to this topic
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#2
D-Type
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Posted 25 February 2005 - 10:49
Any idea of what date we are talking about?
#3
Allen Brown
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Posted 25 February 2005 - 11:02
Allan McCall designed and built the first one although Len Terry was involved at some point - perhaps with derivatives for FSV and/or FB. Bert Hawthorne raced the first one but was killed driving it. It ran in FB with Hawthorne in 1971 so I thinke he was killed early 1972.
But I have no idea how many were built. McCall was still running them in US Atlantics in 1977 or 1978 but I guess he can't have still been using the original pair.
Anyone in touch with McCall?
Allen
But I have no idea how many were built. McCall was still running them in US Atlantics in 1977 or 1978 but I guess he can't have still been using the original pair.
Anyone in touch with McCall?
Allen
#4
Huw Jadvantich
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Posted 25 February 2005 - 11:05
Didn't John Watson ddrive a Tui?
#5
uwe_sautter
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Posted 25 February 2005 - 11:17
I think so and Bob Wollek too.
#6
Vitesse2
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Posted 25 February 2005 - 11:26
The first Tui was built in 1970 as an F3 car. The design was then adapted for Formula B in 1971. In 1972, it was further developed into an F2 car with a longer wheelbase, revised suspension and a Hart BDA. Early in the year the development car was entered as the Leda-Tui AM29; a new chassis was built later and christened Tui BH2.
After Hawthorne's death, Dave Morgan and John Watson drove the second car in European Championship events: Morgan got pole for a heat at Albi and Wattie finished 5th at Rouen.
McCall then moved on to the Tecno and the Tui later turned up in the US, again adapted for Formula Atlantic.
Allen: from my reading of Hodges, it looks like they just kept rebuilding the first car from 1970-2. Plus the second chassis. I don't remember there being many around at the time!
After Hawthorne's death, Dave Morgan and John Watson drove the second car in European Championship events: Morgan got pole for a heat at Albi and Wattie finished 5th at Rouen.
McCall then moved on to the Tecno and the Tui later turned up in the US, again adapted for Formula Atlantic.
Allen: from my reading of Hodges, it looks like they just kept rebuilding the first car from 1970-2. Plus the second chassis. I don't remember there being many around at the time!
#7
Yorgos
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Posted 25 February 2005 - 11:34
Originally posted by uwe_sautter
Hi,
have anybody more infos about TUI Formula 2 cars.
Teamowner? Constructor?Drivers?Pics?
thanks for help
Did you try google-ing for TUI F2, Leda-Tui and Team Tui?
Here are some links:
From:
http://medlem.spray....salzburg_72.htm
II Festspielpreis der Stadt Salzburg 1972,European Championship F2, 3 september 1972, Salzburgring
Entrant: Alan Mc Call-Team Tui
Car: Leda-Tui BH2 - BDA/Hart
Driver: John Watson
DNA
http://medlem.spray....rtemberg_72.htm
V Preis von Baden-Württemberg und Hessen 1972,European Championship Formel 2, 1 oktober 1972, Hockenheimring
Entrant: Alan Mc Call-Team Tui
Car: Leda-Tui BH2 - BDA/Hart
Driver: Dave Morgan
Position at finish: 15th,
More links
www.formula2.net/F272_12.htm
http://www.formula2.net/F272_23.htm
www.autocourse.ca/archives/ usa/fatlantic/1977/fatlantic.htm
Cheers
Yorgos
#8
Mallory Dan
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Posted 25 February 2005 - 11:37
John Nicholson also used one in early 75 Atlantic in Britain. I could never work out why he'd drive this thing I'd never heard of at the time, as he'd gone so well in the Lyncar the previous 2 years. Though that was getting a bit old, I thought in my youthful naivety that he'd be better off getting a March/Chevron/Modus or such.
With hindsight I guess the Kiwi connexion was the reason he used the Tui for a few races at least.
From memory weren't the Supernova FSVs based on the Tui tub ?
With hindsight I guess the Kiwi connexion was the reason he used the Tui for a few races at least.
From memory weren't the Supernova FSVs based on the Tui tub ?
#9
David McKinney
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Posted 25 February 2005 - 11:38
Alan McCall, who can be seen behind the car on the other thread, once gave me a run-down of the cars, but I don't think I ran it down.
Vitesse2's run-down of the first car sounds about right
There were definitely two cars in North American F/At in the mid '70s, I think c/nos BH2 and BH3, but IIRC they were replacements for the original
In addition, there were of course loads of Leda-Tui Supervees
Vitesse2's run-down of the first car sounds about right
There were definitely two cars in North American F/At in the mid '70s, I think c/nos BH2 and BH3, but IIRC they were replacements for the original
In addition, there were of course loads of Leda-Tui Supervees
#10
Allen Brown
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Posted 25 February 2005 - 12:32
So what was the relation between the Tui BH2 (or the pair of them) that McCall raced for years, and the customer/production FSV cars? And where does Len Terry and Leda fit into the story? Was he the original designer? Did he design or produce the FSV car? Did Leda build cars that McCall had designed?
I've always been a bit puzzled by this.
Allen
I've always been a bit puzzled by this.
Allen
#11
David McKinney
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Posted 25 February 2005 - 13:33
Not 100% sure on this, but I think Leda were licensed to build and sell the FSV version, which presumably was pretty similar to the base model.
As far as the original is concerned, I'm pretty sure it was designed and built by McCall whilst an employee of McLarens, and was in effect a scaled-down F1 M7A.
As far as the original is concerned, I'm pretty sure it was designed and built by McCall whilst an employee of McLarens, and was in effect a scaled-down F1 M7A.
#12
fines
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Posted 25 February 2005 - 16:25
A few years ago Alan McCall e-mailed me with a few questions about FAtlantic results - apparently he's lost (some of) his records, saw my website and just contacted me. Imagine my surprise!Originally posted by Allen Brown
Anyone in touch with McCall?
Allen
When I had gathered myself up from the shock I mailed him a polite answer, but sadly couldn't be of much help. He never acknowledged receipt.
Maybe I can find his address.
#14
Vicuna
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Posted 25 February 2005 - 18:47
When NZ adopted Formula ATLANTIC/Pacific type cars, Tom Gloy and the Tui were the only combination capable of regularly challenging Keke Rosberg.
I seem to recall they won at Wigram.
Here's some serious trivia that has just occured to me.
If Gloy did win at Wigram, and given that Steve Millen won at Bay Park and Rosberg everywhere else (I think) - has there ever been a championship where every race was won by a pale blue car - where different cars shared the wins.
I seem to recall they won at Wigram.
Here's some serious trivia that has just occured to me.
If Gloy did win at Wigram, and given that Steve Millen won at Bay Park and Rosberg everywhere else (I think) - has there ever been a championship where every race was won by a pale blue car - where different cars shared the wins.
#15
Milan Fistonic
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Posted 25 February 2005 - 19:04
This was part of an article on Alan McCall that appeared in Motoring News.
Two months spent at Brabham working on the new Indy monocoque was quickly followed by Alan’s arrival at the haven of Kiwi mechanics in Britain, McLaren Racing. It was during this spell as Denny Hulme’s chief mechanic that Alan’s thoughts turned back to constructing his own racing car, a thought which had been germinating deep in his mind for a very long time and now wanted to get out.
“Before I started getting really involved in motor racing I sort of fancied myself as a driver. So I made up my mind that I was going to race; I’d made a lot of money working with McLaren but there was nothing in the way of readily available racing cars that I really liked. I don’t like the idea of a spaceframe and so I decided to build my own monocoque car and get away to race it.”
McCall’s decision caused a degree of turmoil at McLaren Racing. Teddy Mayer, Tyler Alexander and Phil Kerr all tried to talk Alan out of his idea and, when they failed, they sent him upstairs to Bruce for a final effort. “Bruce was tremendous,” Alan remembers, “ he started off by reasonably trying to talk me out of it, but got so carried away by my enthusiasm and his own naturally keen attitude that he eventually talked me into it!” Alan left McLaren’s with Bruce’s words ringing in his ears, “If you want satisfaction, build it yourself.”
Two months spent at Brabham working on the new Indy monocoque was quickly followed by Alan’s arrival at the haven of Kiwi mechanics in Britain, McLaren Racing. It was during this spell as Denny Hulme’s chief mechanic that Alan’s thoughts turned back to constructing his own racing car, a thought which had been germinating deep in his mind for a very long time and now wanted to get out.
“Before I started getting really involved in motor racing I sort of fancied myself as a driver. So I made up my mind that I was going to race; I’d made a lot of money working with McLaren but there was nothing in the way of readily available racing cars that I really liked. I don’t like the idea of a spaceframe and so I decided to build my own monocoque car and get away to race it.”
McCall’s decision caused a degree of turmoil at McLaren Racing. Teddy Mayer, Tyler Alexander and Phil Kerr all tried to talk Alan out of his idea and, when they failed, they sent him upstairs to Bruce for a final effort. “Bruce was tremendous,” Alan remembers, “ he started off by reasonably trying to talk me out of it, but got so carried away by my enthusiasm and his own naturally keen attitude that he eventually talked me into it!” Alan left McLaren’s with Bruce’s words ringing in his ears, “If you want satisfaction, build it yourself.”
#16
Vicuna
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Posted 25 February 2005 - 19:14
You're up early too Milan - were all the winning cars in the 1977 F.Pacific championship pale blue?
#17
David McKinney
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Posted 25 February 2005 - 19:24
Yes, they were
And not a French entry among them
And not a French entry among them
#18
Vicuna
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Posted 25 February 2005 - 19:24
I just remembered the results are all on Allen Brown's web site.
Get this:
Bay Park: Millen, pale blue Chevron B35
Pukekohe: Rosberg, pale blue B34; Gloy, pale blue Tui
Manfeild: as above
Teretonga: pale blue 1-2-3 as Kozarowitsky found some reliabilty
Wigram: 1-2-3 again, as above
French Racing Blue never had it so good - and not a Jean-Pierre or Matra in sight!
Get this:
Bay Park: Millen, pale blue Chevron B35
Pukekohe: Rosberg, pale blue B34; Gloy, pale blue Tui
Manfeild: as above
Teretonga: pale blue 1-2-3 as Kozarowitsky found some reliabilty
Wigram: 1-2-3 again, as above
French Racing Blue never had it so good - and not a Jean-Pierre or Matra in sight!
#19
David McKinney
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Posted 25 February 2005 - 19:42
Latter-day Tui - Fred Greenfield at Long Beach in 1980
ISTR he bought both Atlantic cars
Edit: Make that 1978
ISTR he bought both Atlantic cars
Edit: Make that 1978
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#20
Vicuna
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Posted 25 February 2005 - 21:16
Originally posted by David McKinney
Yes, they were
And not a French entry among them
I see our 'French' comments crossed.
Great minds!
Or one great mind and me.
#21
Huw Jadvantich
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Posted 28 July 2006 - 05:51
Tui Len Terry connection;
When Malaya Garages, Malcolm Bridgeland and John Heynes took over Leda, Len Terry's operation in Poole which was running short on funds, they installed Graham McRae and Allan McCall in there.
Mcrae and McCall designed and built their one off racers, Len Terry did some of the drawing and the drawings for the production cars.
Whilst Fred Opert originally got F Vee agency in the USA, it later fell over. Whether Terry had the European rights or eventual US rights I am not sure.
Tui I believe used Mcrae uprights and in some cases a McRae nose cone with a chunk taken out of the width of it.
John Heynes sold the works late 73 to Penske
When Malaya Garages, Malcolm Bridgeland and John Heynes took over Leda, Len Terry's operation in Poole which was running short on funds, they installed Graham McRae and Allan McCall in there.
Mcrae and McCall designed and built their one off racers, Len Terry did some of the drawing and the drawings for the production cars.
Whilst Fred Opert originally got F Vee agency in the USA, it later fell over. Whether Terry had the European rights or eventual US rights I am not sure.
Tui I believe used Mcrae uprights and in some cases a McRae nose cone with a chunk taken out of the width of it.
John Heynes sold the works late 73 to Penske
#22
MCS
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Posted 28 July 2006 - 21:11
Originally posted by David McKinney
Latter-day Tui - Fred Greenfield at Long Beach in 1980
ISTR he bought both Atlantic cars
Edit: Make that 1978
Complete with onboard frog - how very strange
(Look at the middle of the nosecone).
#23
SR781
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Posted 29 July 2006 - 07:55
Originally posted by David McKinney
Not 100% sure on this, but I think Leda were licensed to build and sell the FSV version, which presumably was pretty similar to the base model.
As far as the original is concerned, I'm pretty sure it was designed and built by McCall whilst an employee of McLarens, and was in effect a scaled-down F1 M7A.
I am led to believe that there were only ever two cars to come from Mclaren that were not Mclaren's and only one exists today.They both were based on the M7A.One being the Tui which was damaged and the other being the original Kaditcha of Barry Lock (which i own)
#24
Huw Jadvantich
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Posted 29 July 2006 - 11:55
No Coopers, Ford GTs or BMWs then?
