Noticed in a newspaper article on the death of Prince Rainier a reference to the annual construction of circuit and grandstands forthe Monaco Grand Prix.
Have always felt that this race has far outlived its useful life as it is both slow, boring (narrow track, no overtaking) and dangerous (narrow track, easy for car to go into spectator enclosures).
Which brings the question: what would be the best - and/or most exciting - place for a GP street circuit, taking all considerations (track layout, wide streets, spectator view, resources, food & wine, ambiance, etc) into consideration ?
Some ideas:
Berlin, Buenos Aires, Cape Town, Moscow, Paris, Shanghai, Singapore and Sydney.
London does not really qualify as the streets are mostly too narrow, and the streets are simply too bad in New York.
But I am sure you all have other ideas.
The best city for a Grand Prix street circuit?
Started by
Mohican
, Apr 19 2005 12:32
114 replies to this topic
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#2
Stephen W
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Posted 19 April 2005 - 12:57
I have got to admit I thoroughly enjoyed the DETROIT Grand Prix round the streets. The Americans were not as knowledgeable as the European crowds but they certianly enjoy a close fought race.
It certainly was safe, it had great views, it was centrally located, plenty of great resturants, plus the added bonus of the natives speaking what passed for English!
Can't be too critical as I stayed with relatives and had a wonderful week.
As for other cities where a race could be held I suspect you would either get a Monaco style procession or a wasteland race round some dual-carriageways.
Monaco isn't that bad after all if you are good enough you'll win!
It certainly was safe, it had great views, it was centrally located, plenty of great resturants, plus the added bonus of the natives speaking what passed for English!
Can't be too critical as I stayed with relatives and had a wonderful week.
As for other cities where a race could be held I suspect you would either get a Monaco style procession or a wasteland race round some dual-carriageways.
Monaco isn't that bad after all if you are good enough you'll win!
#3
BRG
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Posted 19 April 2005 - 13:05
I agree wholly about Monaco – it is a joke these days, and probably already was even back when I attended my first ever F1 race – the 1970 Monaco GP.
I have never really understood the enthusiasm for running motor races in cities. Maybe it’s my rallying bent, but I see fast driving as something for country roads, not city streets. After all, if someone suggested that the football World Cup final should be played in Trafalgar Square (enter your own local city centre square or plaza) instead of a stadium “in order to bring the sport to a larger public” they would quite rightly be considered nuts.
But if we HAVE to have street circuits, the parameters are not so hard. Firstly, you need a decent width of street, with a good surface (not too much iron work, or too much camber). You need decent length straights, and plenty of high-speed curves, with a minimum of right-angled corners. You need wide sidewalks so that a decent amount of grandstanding can be erected. You need a spacious area to allow a proper width pit-lane, with a SAFE entry and exit (something not very common even on purpose built circuits, of course).
As to ambience, food and wine etc, well, every city has its own virtues if you are prepared to discover them. It would be a poor show if everywhere was alike.
Nowhere that meets all those criteria really leaps to mind – the track at Pau might be a contender but only if it was at least 50% wider. The plethora of N. American street tracks used by CART over the years have all been flawed in some way, usually by being simply too tight to allow any proper racing. I suppose the Norsring comes closest to meeting my criteria, but it still doesn’t seem to be good enough to my mind.
No, let’s stick to proper tracks and leave city streets to taxis and buses.
I have never really understood the enthusiasm for running motor races in cities. Maybe it’s my rallying bent, but I see fast driving as something for country roads, not city streets. After all, if someone suggested that the football World Cup final should be played in Trafalgar Square (enter your own local city centre square or plaza) instead of a stadium “in order to bring the sport to a larger public” they would quite rightly be considered nuts.
But if we HAVE to have street circuits, the parameters are not so hard. Firstly, you need a decent width of street, with a good surface (not too much iron work, or too much camber). You need decent length straights, and plenty of high-speed curves, with a minimum of right-angled corners. You need wide sidewalks so that a decent amount of grandstanding can be erected. You need a spacious area to allow a proper width pit-lane, with a SAFE entry and exit (something not very common even on purpose built circuits, of course).
As to ambience, food and wine etc, well, every city has its own virtues if you are prepared to discover them. It would be a poor show if everywhere was alike.
Nowhere that meets all those criteria really leaps to mind – the track at Pau might be a contender but only if it was at least 50% wider. The plethora of N. American street tracks used by CART over the years have all been flawed in some way, usually by being simply too tight to allow any proper racing. I suppose the Norsring comes closest to meeting my criteria, but it still doesn’t seem to be good enough to my mind.
No, let’s stick to proper tracks and leave city streets to taxis and buses.
#4
Mohican
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Posted 19 April 2005 - 13:05
This is exactly the reason why I want to have the race circuit incorporating some nice long - and wide - boulevards. What about a part hairpin round the Arc de Triomphe in Paris, for instance ? pleanty of overtaking opportunity there.
#5
Pils1989
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Posted 19 April 2005 - 13:26
But you have the cobble stones in Paris and they will never cover them with macadam, I hope!
#6
mikedeering
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Posted 19 April 2005 - 13:33
I always thought the Paris circuit loop used by the Tour de France might be a worth a go - but as has been pointed out the cobbles may prove a problem!
#7
bill moffat
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Posted 19 April 2005 - 13:34
..Didn't you know? There's a Grand Prix held around the Place d'Etoile in Paris every day of the week. I've competed a few times and thoroughly enjoyed it !!
Seriously though, I would like to see Grand Prix cars back on the streets of Barcelona.
Seriously though, I would like to see Grand Prix cars back on the streets of Barcelona.
#8
Ray Bell
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Posted 19 April 2005 - 13:35
Canberra could have some great layouts around the Parliament House area (so badly stuffed up by the races held there a few years ago!) and using freeways on the other side of the lake along with main roads among the Russell Offices... or there's the Scrivener Dam road, it could be part of a great circuit with excellent viewing and background prospects.
#9
petefenelon
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Posted 19 April 2005 - 13:55
I've always felt that York needed a motor race ;)
The following circuit, about 8km long, was laid out after an evening in the pub; it happens to pass close by the houses of many of my friends ;)
http://www.fenelon.com/yorkgp-map.gif
Would've been bloody quick in the 80s, but there's too much traffic calming these days ;)
The following circuit, about 8km long, was laid out after an evening in the pub; it happens to pass close by the houses of many of my friends ;)
http://www.fenelon.com/yorkgp-map.gif
Would've been bloody quick in the 80s, but there's too much traffic calming these days ;)
#10
ian senior
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Posted 19 April 2005 - 14:14
Originally posted by petefenelon
I've always felt that York needed a motor race ;)
The following circuit, about 8km long, was laid out after an evening in the pub; it happens to pass close by the houses of many of my friends ;)
http://www.fenelon.com/yorkgp-map.gif
Would've been bloody quick in the 80s, but there's too much traffic calming these days ;)
At last, someone finds a use for Foss Islands Road, surely the grottiest thoroughfair in York. Couldn't you have found a way to make use of the city walls - love to see some cars fighting their way to be first through Monk Bar, for instance.
#11
ensign14
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Posted 19 April 2005 - 14:28
Birmingham produced a pretty decent street circuit...unusually fast. If it were an F1 circuit it would be one hell of a challenge.
St Petersburg would be wonderful. Flat out blast down Nevsky Prospekt, hard left at Gostinny Dvor into Sadovaya St, through a couple of parks to the shoreline, hard left, back up to NP...or maybe over the bridge to Peter-Paul...wonderful backdrop and very, very wide roads. There must be a number of potential fantastic circuits there.
St Petersburg would be wonderful. Flat out blast down Nevsky Prospekt, hard left at Gostinny Dvor into Sadovaya St, through a couple of parks to the shoreline, hard left, back up to NP...or maybe over the bridge to Peter-Paul...wonderful backdrop and very, very wide roads. There must be a number of potential fantastic circuits there.
#12
bigears
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Posted 19 April 2005 - 14:41
Obviously I would love to see the Birmingham Superprix circuit revived again since 1990 but as safety is still the big thing in people's minds as the two parallel straights are too fast for a street track.
Also where the heck's the pits would go? I can't imagine Ferrari rubbing shoulders with the McLaren pitcrew in the pits!
Also where the heck's the pits would go? I can't imagine Ferrari rubbing shoulders with the McLaren pitcrew in the pits!
#13
Macca
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Posted 19 April 2005 - 16:22
The Chichester ring-road...................under the bridge by the Tesco, blast along the dual-carriageway(pitlane in the other carriageway), some tight twisty bits near the end of Northgate, back down past the market and a final s-bend near the bus-station..........and Lord March's team could organise it!
Paul M
Paul M
#14
WDH74
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Posted 19 April 2005 - 16:28
I'm surprised nobody's brought up Long Beach. I understand it always had a good reputation among drivers. Don't know if it's unsuitable for modern F1, though.
Frankly, I think most modern big cities are going to have a tough time with street racing. Chicago, for instance, is full of narrow streets that just wouldnt be appropriate (although I'd love to see racing cars dodging between El Stops!)
-William
Frankly, I think most modern big cities are going to have a tough time with street racing. Chicago, for instance, is full of narrow streets that just wouldnt be appropriate (although I'd love to see racing cars dodging between El Stops!)
-William
#15
Rosemayer
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Posted 19 April 2005 - 20:25
I totally agree with Long Beach they just ran a CART race,Formula Atlantic and a Trans Am races.
#16
HDonaldCapps
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Posted 20 April 2005 - 02:00
I'm surprised nobody's brought up Long Beach. I understand it always had a good reputation among drivers. Don't know if it's unsuitable for modern F1, though.
It is all about the money.
The Columbus street circuit seemed to be one of the better ones, but they only ran it that one year. It was pretty quick and that made a big difference.
Too bad the don't resurrect the Milwaukee course for the 2012 USGP. Or being back the Santa Monica course -- it is pretty still there. Sorta.....
#17
275 GTB-4
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Posted 20 April 2005 - 02:43
Originally posted by Ray Bell
Canberra could have some great layouts around the Parliament House area (so badly stuffed up by the races held there a few years ago!) and using freeways on the other side of the lake along with main roads among the Russell Offices... or there's the Scrivener Dam road, it could be part of a great circuit with excellent viewing and background prospects.
As a resident of Canberra (Australia's Capital) I would agree....one problem would be engine management in the rarified, hot and bullshit laden air our politicians generate here...
#18
Rob29
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Posted 20 April 2005 - 07:54
Seem to remember they managed with Bristol Street Motors? An extended circuit with pits was planned,but I don't think Bernie would play.As this is TNF and not future fantasy,maybe we could discuss why the many street races started in modern times(since70s?)are no longer held?Originally posted by bigears
Obviously I would love to see the Birmingham Superprix circuit revived again since 1990 but as safety is still the big thing in people's minds as the two parallel straights are too fast for a street track.
Also where the heck's the pits would go? I can't imagine Ferrari rubbing shoulders with the McLaren pitcrew in the pits!
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#19
eldougo
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Posted 20 April 2005 - 08:59
Monaco is a JOKE it should have been dropped years ago . The best street circuit is Long Beach and then followed by Adelaide GP track.However as far as iam concerned they should all be road courses built permantely and used all year round it a waist of time and money these street tracks or as a friend of mine calles them "Street Stacks"
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#20
Neri Moreira
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Posted 20 April 2005 - 10:23
This is a great subject
As some of you may know, I live in Porto, and I devoted a special interest in the two F1 Grand Prix raced in my town, mainly the 1958 event.
This year we will have elections for mayor of our town.
Our stupid actual mayor decided that it would be good for is campaign to "revive" the "Grande Prémio do Porto".
So they decided to make races of classic cars in our town again, next July.
In order to do that, they decided to draw a circuit, around our city park, that will use part of what once was the "circuito da Boavista".
The only common parts are 1.4 of the 2.2 km of the straitgh line (av da Boavista) and the last part of circunvalação.
As some of you may know, Av. da Boavista, was a 3 lane avenue with two lanes for cars and a central lane for trams, separated by rows of trees.
Well, the central lane, the tram lines and the trees are gone
:(:(
In order to make those races, the Av. da Boavista is now a 27 meters wide asfalt road
Also, the old start/finish line, in front of the sea, was destryed, in 2001, and they replaced it, by a viaduct, over the city park, so that the city park became conected with the sea.
They made that viaduct with a central lane for cars (in asfalt) and the sides in coblestone with tram lines.
Those new trams lines were never used (the net was not yet closed) and, now, in order to make the races, they removed the tram lines and the coblestones and covered it al with asfalt
I'm yet to see what else are they going to destroy in the next couple of months in order to make those bloody races.
I love motorracing (mainly old motor racing) at least as much as any of you.
I would love to see a proper revival of the anciant Porto Grand Prix, but NO RACES.
Dont you ever let anyone do that to your town!
Neri
As some of you may know, I live in Porto, and I devoted a special interest in the two F1 Grand Prix raced in my town, mainly the 1958 event.
This year we will have elections for mayor of our town.
Our stupid actual mayor decided that it would be good for is campaign to "revive" the "Grande Prémio do Porto".
So they decided to make races of classic cars in our town again, next July.
In order to do that, they decided to draw a circuit, around our city park, that will use part of what once was the "circuito da Boavista".
The only common parts are 1.4 of the 2.2 km of the straitgh line (av da Boavista) and the last part of circunvalação.
As some of you may know, Av. da Boavista, was a 3 lane avenue with two lanes for cars and a central lane for trams, separated by rows of trees.
Well, the central lane, the tram lines and the trees are gone
:(:(In order to make those races, the Av. da Boavista is now a 27 meters wide asfalt road
Also, the old start/finish line, in front of the sea, was destryed, in 2001, and they replaced it, by a viaduct, over the city park, so that the city park became conected with the sea.
They made that viaduct with a central lane for cars (in asfalt) and the sides in coblestone with tram lines.
Those new trams lines were never used (the net was not yet closed) and, now, in order to make the races, they removed the tram lines and the coblestones and covered it al with asfalt
I'm yet to see what else are they going to destroy in the next couple of months in order to make those bloody races.
I love motorracing (mainly old motor racing) at least as much as any of you.
I would love to see a proper revival of the anciant Porto Grand Prix, but NO RACES.
Dont you ever let anyone do that to your town!
Neri
#21
Huw Jadvantich
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Posted 20 April 2005 - 10:55
Doesn't Moscow have some really wide streets, they used to have the huge military parades down?
#22
Mohican
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Posted 20 April 2005 - 11:41
Yes, this is why I included Moscow in my original list. Didn't think of S:t Petersburg, but agree that it would be great as well.
On the one hand I agree that GP cars are best raced (and seen) on road circuits - but since there are hardly any real such circuits left on the calendar (Spa, Monza, Interlagos, Suzuka - any more ?), I started dreaming of street circuits.
On the one hand I agree that GP cars are best raced (and seen) on road circuits - but since there are hardly any real such circuits left on the calendar (Spa, Monza, Interlagos, Suzuka - any more ?), I started dreaming of street circuits.
#23
Barry Boor
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Posted 20 April 2005 - 12:07
Long Beach in its original form was great - BUT, nowadays, although the section by the Aquarium is quite nice, the fact they have lopped off the top section, where the pits used to be has lost a lot of the character.
I loved that right hander off the top straight that plunged down to a left hander but now that section is lost, the elevation changes are minimal and the lap is WAY TOO SHORT.
More than 40 years! ago, I decided that my local park in the east end of London would be an absolutely perfect venue for motor racing. The red line is my projected circuit....
All these years later, my view has not changed. I calculate a lap length of about 2 miles.
Oh well......
I loved that right hander off the top straight that plunged down to a left hander but now that section is lost, the elevation changes are minimal and the lap is WAY TOO SHORT.
More than 40 years! ago, I decided that my local park in the east end of London would be an absolutely perfect venue for motor racing. The red line is my projected circuit....
All these years later, my view has not changed. I calculate a lap length of about 2 miles.
Oh well......
#24
petefenelon
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Posted 20 April 2005 - 12:28
While we're on this theme...
Rather recent but: there was talk of a Manchester Champcar street race (I think the intention was to hold it in 2004); does anyone have any hard information about where the this would've been?
(I reckoned it'd be easy to lay out a moderately interesting street circuit near the IWM and Lowry at Salford Quays).
Rather recent but: there was talk of a Manchester Champcar street race (I think the intention was to hold it in 2004); does anyone have any hard information about where the this would've been?
(I reckoned it'd be easy to lay out a moderately interesting street circuit near the IWM and Lowry at Salford Quays).
#25
BRG
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Posted 20 April 2005 - 13:25
Originally posted by Rob29
why the many street races started in modern times(since70s?)are no longer held?
In most of these cases, the initiaitve simply ran out of steam, or (more likely) money. Street races are generally beholden to the local government who have to subsidise all the logisitical arrangements. When their interest wanes, becuase of a political change or because the 'proven' economic benefits turn out to have been imaginary, the track is no longer financially viable. That probably accounts for most of those on your list.
Otherwise...
Singen - a race track around an industrial estate? Don't ask why, just be glad it's gone...
Helsinki - is to be used again this year for the WTCC and FIA GT.
Avus - maybe too much rush-hour traffic on the autobahn? No longer practical?
Las Vegas - probably the construction of a permanent track made it redundant, plus who needs closed streets and car parks if they keep the punters out of the casinos?
#26
Hieronymus
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Posted 20 April 2005 - 13:42
Originally posted by Mohican
Some ideas:
Berlin, Buenos Aires, Cape Town, Moscow, Paris, Shanghai, Singapore and Sydney.
CAPE TOWN
That's in Africa...please tell that to Bernie and the gang. The only continent on the planet Earth that does not have a World Championship F1 race. Do they care about Africa???
#27
Keir
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Posted 20 April 2005 - 14:06
New York, New York !! So nice, they named it twice !! The often heard about but never realized Central Park circuit !! Drinks on the house at The Tavern on the Green !!
#28
D-Type
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Posted 20 April 2005 - 16:05
I think there's a difference between a town circuit (Monaco, Pau) and a park circuit (Bremgarten, Adeleide, Phoenix Park). And park circuits slide into permanent circuits (Crystal Palace, Monza)
How about New Delhi? - all the wide, hardly used, Lutyens streets, plenty of space for stands, internationalisation, etc.
How about New Delhi? - all the wide, hardly used, Lutyens streets, plenty of space for stands, internationalisation, etc.
#29
LittleChris
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Posted 20 April 2005 - 21:55
Originally posted by Barry Boor
Long Beach in its original form was great - BUT, nowadays, although the section by the Aquarium is quite nice, the fact they have lopped off the top section, where the pits used to be has lost a lot of the character.
I loved that right hander off the top straight that plunged down to a left hander but now that section is lost, the elevation changes are minimal and the lap is WAY TOO SHORT.
More than 40 years! ago, I decided that my local park in the east end of London would be an absolutely perfect venue for motor racing. The red line is my projected circuit....
All these years later, my view has not changed. I calculate a lap length of about 2 miles.
Oh well......
I used to occasionally play ( in the loosest sense of the word ) cricket in Vicky Park. My bowling & high powered cars in the same vicinity would not have been a good idea !
#30
HistoricMustang
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Posted 20 April 2005 - 23:15
Originally posted by Mohican
This is exactly the reason why I want to have the race circuit incorporating some nice long - and wide - boulevards. What about a part hairpin round the Arc de Triomphe in Paris, for instance ? pleanty of overtaking opportunity there.
Are we speaking of Atlanta, Georgia? Nice wide Peachtree Street with some up and down movement and the Varsity can be used for pitting!
Henry
#31
scheivlak
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Posted 20 April 2005 - 23:35
I don't know xxxx about Atlanta but the circuit they used for the olympic cycling road event in 1996 (fantastic race BTW!) didn't look too bad.Originally posted by HistoricMustang
Are we speaking of Atlanta, Georgia? Nice wide Peachtree Street with some up and down movement and the Varsity can be used for pitting!
Henry
#32
jj2728
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Posted 20 April 2005 - 23:54
ahh...if only they'd bring back that most magnificant of street circuits....Montjuich Park.
#33
Mohican
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Posted 21 April 2005 - 08:35
Can we have GP cars jumping down the streets of San Francisco ? Or racing up the hills in Seoul ?
There must be many more.
There must be many more.
#34
ggnagy
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Posted 22 April 2005 - 12:19
The probably-soon-to-be-built-over Washington DC ALMS circuit was too short, but those hairpin turns made for some great passing manuvers. Still, if they never have a race in DC ever again, the city gets what it deserves.
Atlanta street race? Why? The only reason I could see it would be if it was to save Road Atlanta from being Tilke-fied.
Atlanta street race? Why? The only reason I could see it would be if it was to save Road Atlanta from being Tilke-fied.
#35
Mallory Dan
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Posted 22 April 2005 - 12:23
Originally posted by LittleChris
I used to occasionally play ( in the loosest sense of the word ) cricket in Vicky Park. My bowling & high powered cars in the same vicinity would not have been a good idea !
From memory I think Victoria Park is one and the same as "Itchycoo Park".
#36
Pils1989
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Posted 22 April 2005 - 12:27
Originally posted by ggnagy
Atlanta street race? Why? The only reason I could see it would be if it was to save Road Atlanta from being Tilke-fied.
I wish there were more events at Road Atlanta but I understood people prefeir Nascar here...
#37
275 GTB-4
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Posted 23 April 2005 - 08:02
Originally posted by Mallory Dan
From memory I think Victoria Park is one and the same as "Itchycoo Park".
What do they do there?
#38
Ray Bell
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Posted 23 April 2005 - 12:00
Originally posted by 275 GTB-4
What do they do there?
Apparently it was in a mountainous region...
#39
Pils1989
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Posted 23 April 2005 - 15:17
They could revive the GP of Brussels in the Bois de la Cambre 
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#40
bigears
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Posted 23 April 2005 - 16:25
When I was doing some research into the Birmingham Superprix, I found out that there was a proposed street race in Cardiff! 
There wasn't much information and it only mentioned that the track will run past the Adminstatration Centre building.
There wasn't much information and it only mentioned that the track will run past the Adminstatration Centre building.
#41
275 GTB-4
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Posted 24 April 2005 - 00:27
Originally posted by Ray Bell
Apparently it was in a mountainous region...
What elevation
#42
Rob29
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Posted 24 April 2005 - 08:00
yep,I have map of proposed circuit cut from Motoring News. Pits on North Road,right into Corbett Road,r.Museum Avenue,r,CollegeRoad,l,King Edward VII Avenue,l,City Hall Road,r,Museum Avenue,l ?,r,Park Place,r,New Grayfriars Road,r,pits.Paddock between Law Courts & Central Police station!!Originally posted by bigears
When I was doing some research into the Birmingham Superprix, I found out that there was a proposed street race in Cardiff!
There wasn't much information and it only mentioned that the track will run past the Adminstatration Centre building.
Also the Fawlty Towers GP? ''Torquay could soon rival Monaco by staging formula 1 Grand Prix motor racing round the harbour. Business men are carrying out a study in the hope of staging the first race in 1987''
#43
Mohican
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Posted 16 May 2005 - 14:20
Am reviving this thread, seeing that the Monaco GP is on this coming sunday, with a question: will BAR's exclusion make any difference ?
To my mind, the answer is no. For the usual reasons; overtaking being impossible, etc, etc.
But at least this year nobody will crash out because of smoke from an exploding Honda engine...Button's not being on the track is irrelevant to me, but not seeing Sato is a great pity - remember his start last year ?
To my mind, the answer is no. For the usual reasons; overtaking being impossible, etc, etc.
But at least this year nobody will crash out because of smoke from an exploding Honda engine...Button's not being on the track is irrelevant to me, but not seeing Sato is a great pity - remember his start last year ?
#44
fines
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Posted 16 May 2005 - 18:23
Surprised Barcelona's Montjuic Park has been mentioned only twice - by far the best in my book. The original Long Beach (pre '83) comes next, and then... uhm, nothing!
Btw, Barcelona's also a VERY beautiful city with lots of charisma!
Btw, Barcelona's also a VERY beautiful city with lots of charisma!
#45
stuartbrs
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Posted 17 May 2005 - 03:49
Hobart..
Its prettier than Monaco nowadays..
There were suggestions of a touring car ( ATCC ) race around the Wharf streets in the late 80`s which came to nought.. Motor-racing has been ( up untill very recently ) a dirty word to our local pollies.. which makes the success of Targa tasmania even more astounding..
And come to think of it.. I`d rather they didnt.. Bernie would ***k up a perfectly good city..
Its prettier than Monaco nowadays..
There were suggestions of a touring car ( ATCC ) race around the Wharf streets in the late 80`s which came to nought.. Motor-racing has been ( up untill very recently ) a dirty word to our local pollies.. which makes the success of Targa tasmania even more astounding..
And come to think of it.. I`d rather they didnt.. Bernie would ***k up a perfectly good city..
#46
Arjan de Roos
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- 2,583 posts
- Joined: July 02
Member
Posted 17 May 2005 - 11:58
With modern high performance F1 cars of nowadays, billion dollar sponsorship deals, worldwide broadcasting, hyper stardom of assistant mechanics and increasing FIA regulation there can only be one good place for a GP street circuit:
Gibraltar
Gibraltar
#47
Darren Galpin
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- 2,321 posts
- Joined: April 00
Member
Posted 17 May 2005 - 12:14
Or given Ferrari's favour with the Holy See, why not have a GP in the Vatican?
#48
zac510
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- 1,713 posts
- Joined: January 04
Member
Posted 17 May 2005 - 12:29
Monaco is the only place left where I am reminded just how fast the cars are going (so close to the barriers).
I agree that Canberra could be a good place for a circuit in Aus. Although the recent V8 track was probably not the best use of the city.
I agree that Canberra could be a good place for a circuit in Aus. Although the recent V8 track was probably not the best use of the city.
#49
David M. Kane
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- 5,402 posts
- Joined: December 00
Member
Posted 17 May 2005 - 12:38
;)
When I drove in the Historic Grand Prix support race at the LBGP a few years ago I was stunn how wide the track was all around the circuit.
Recently I revisited "Lap of the Gods II" and the in-car footage of Depaillier in the 008 make me agree that the original layout was better, but overall it was one of the best experience I ever had as a human!
When I drove in the Historic Grand Prix support race at the LBGP a few years ago I was stunn how wide the track was all around the circuit.
Recently I revisited "Lap of the Gods II" and the in-car footage of Depaillier in the 008 make me agree that the original layout was better, but overall it was one of the best experience I ever had as a human!
#50
petefenelon
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- 4,815 posts
- Joined: August 02
Member
Posted 17 May 2005 - 13:08
Originally posted by David M. Kane
;)
When I drove in the Historic Grand Prix support race at the LBGP a few years ago I was stunn how wide the track was all around the circuit.
Recently I revisited "Lap of the Gods II" and the in-car footage of Depaillier in the 008 make me agree that the original layout was better, but overall it was one of the best experience I ever had as a human!
I've been over parts of several GP street circuits - I'm amazed by how awful Phoenix must've been to drive - having been captivated by the Alesi/Senna battle there and moderately intrigued by the other two races there, seeing it 'in the flesh' was a severe disappointment. Building the baseball stadium/convention center over one end of it was perhaps merciful ;)
Detroit - flamin' nora! Were the roads that poor in the 80s? A well-driven Lancia Delta Integrale would've had the advantage over an F1 car round there, I reckon - I've never seen roads so appalling. I think Detroit must've been the most bizarre GP venue ever, the urban decay within a few blocks of the RenCen was positively Third World... (ok, this was some years after the GP had left, but the place still scared the hell out of me...)
And Monaco is really a hillclimb with a twisty return road - the TV cameras flatten out Beau Rivage. Very steep climb. I had to stop for a cold beer or three at the Tip-top when I was walking the circuit. The narrowness of the streets is also very apparent - they're too narrow for everyday traffic really, it was completely surreal watching people actually trying to race there!
