There's picture at BMW World site:
http://www.bmwworld....istory/1936.gif
BMW 328 at Nurburgring. I think it's sportscar support race for Eifelrennen or German GP. Does someone know?
1936 questions
Started by
Kvadrat
, May 25 2005 02:42
20 replies to this topic
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#2
uechtel
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Posted 25 May 2005 - 14:56
Yes, the picture is said to be Ernst Henne at the debut appearance of the car, Eifelrennen 1936...
... but:
Do you recognize the difference?
... but:
Do you recognize the difference?
#3
taylov
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Posted 25 May 2005 - 16:32
My program for the 1936 Eifelrennen shows Race/Rennen III - a combined race for Voiturettes (Rennwagen bis 1500 ccm) and sports cars (Sportwagen). The sportscars raced for 5 laps, the 1500's over 8 laps.
Car #14 was entered by "Bayer. Motorenwerke A-G" for E.J.Henne - a BMW of 1970ccm. Alas, my copy of the program does not contain a lapchart.
Tony
Car #14 was entered by "Bayer. Motorenwerke A-G" for E.J.Henne - a BMW of 1970ccm. Alas, my copy of the program does not contain a lapchart.
Tony
#4
Vitesse2
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Posted 25 May 2005 - 22:53
Uechtel is the expert here, but they're quite obviously different cars. The car in the first picture has a number on the tail, the second does not. Also, the second car has higher rear bodywork: is that actually a 315 rather than a 328 (that's a guess BTW!)?
The weather's different too. AFAIK the only German GP meeting held in bright sunshine was 1937.
Slightly O/T: any guesses as to what the car in the ditch is? It appears to be an open-wheeler, so could it be either Seibel's or Troeltsch's Bugatti? I have no retirement reason for either of those: I know of two crashes - Seaman and Ruesch, but it's neither of them.
The weather's different too. AFAIK the only German GP meeting held in bright sunshine was 1937.
Slightly O/T: any guesses as to what the car in the ditch is? It appears to be an open-wheeler, so could it be either Seibel's or Troeltsch's Bugatti? I have no retirement reason for either of those: I know of two crashes - Seaman and Ruesch, but it's neither of them.
#5
uechtel
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Posted 28 May 2005 - 08:57
Originally posted by Vitesse2
Uechtel is the expert here, but they're quite obviously different cars. The car in the first picture has a number on the tail, the second does not. Also, the second car has higher rear bodywork: is that actually a 315 rather than a 328 (that's a guess BTW!)?
No, I think it´s indeed one and the same car on both pictures. The first three 328 prototypes had a slightly different shape, for example no spare wheel bay on the rear and a very low but full-width windscreen, so don´t let you get confused by those details.
The difference I intended to refer to is the driver´s coat. Here two other pictures from the BMW page, that show that more clearly:
The weather's different too. AFAIK the only German GP meeting held in bright sunshine was 1937.
A very good argument which so far I have not realized.
So could it be a posing for press-release photo? Sunshine gives your pictures certainly a better athmosphere for marketing your victories.
Slightly O/T: any guesses as to what the car in the ditch is? It appears to be an open-wheeler, so could it be either Seibel's or Troeltsch's Bugatti? I have no retirement reason for either of those: I know of two crashes - Seaman and Ruesch, but it's neither of them.
Why not Ruesch? He had a very special Maserati (of which I think that somebody already showed a picture here (but I did not find the thread with the search function), which looks still very similar to me on this picture taken six years later, showing Max Christen at the Maloja hillclimb in 1946
#6
Vitesse2
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Posted 28 May 2005 - 09:50
Ahh, right. I'd missed the division between the overalls and the car's bodywork, which is why I thought the tail was higher. It would have been easier to spot if they'd scraped the white paint offOriginally posted by uechtel
The difference I intended to refer to is the driver´s coat. Here two other pictures from the BMW page, that show that more clearly:
The spectators' garb would seem to indicate typical Ringwetter!Originally posted by uechtel
Yes, it could be his converted 4CS monoposto. I was assuming it was a Bugatti with part of the tail section missing but looking at it again that could very well be the nose of the Maserati. I have some photos of it somewhere ....Originally posted by uechtel
Why not Ruesch? He had a very special Maserati (of which I think that somebody already showed a picture here (but I did not find the thread with the search function), which looks still very similar to me on this picture taken six years later, showing Max Christen at the Maloja hillclimb in 1946
#7
Kvadrat
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Posted 28 September 2005 - 04:49
I captured some screenshots from 1936 races, I think. Maserati documentary has little story of Whitney Straight's Maserati. Here's it in Brooklands race with number 8.
In one of two Shelsley Walsh hill-climbs he raced the same car with the same nubmer and #91 plate so I think the climb was short after Brooklands race.
In another Brooklands race he raced with number 2.
It wasn't his famous 8C Maserati but - I guess - 4CM. I don't know its history.
Finally there are 1936 Donington handicap race.
Please help to identify all these races.
In one of two Shelsley Walsh hill-climbs he raced the same car with the same nubmer and #91 plate so I think the climb was short after Brooklands race.
In another Brooklands race he raced with number 2.
It wasn't his famous 8C Maserati but - I guess - 4CM. I don't know its history.
Finally there are 1936 Donington handicap race.
Please help to identify all these races.
#8
Vitesse2
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Posted 28 September 2005 - 21:24
The Donington handicap is the 1936 British Empire Trophy. That's actually a useful picture as far as I'm concerned, because the #18 car appears to be Reg Parnell's K3, starting with the 1100s: not oversized in that race then!
Can't identify any of the others - the low numbers on the car would indicate Brooklands club meetings - but the chap in the white overalls at Shelsley is Raymond Mays.
Can't identify any of the others - the low numbers on the car would indicate Brooklands club meetings - but the chap in the white overalls at Shelsley is Raymond Mays.
#9
Kvadrat
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Posted 29 September 2005 - 02:01
Richard, I didn't say that I suggest it's Nuffield Trophy. In British Empire Trophy Seaman drove #28 Straight's Maserati but this time number in the car is 32. Also in LAT Archive picture at http://media.latphot...LAT200011070128 there's #27 Alfa Romeo and in video frames there's #27 Bugatti.
There was rain later in the race. Venable's Nuffield Trophy report doesn't mention this.
There was rain later in the race. Venable's Nuffield Trophy report doesn't mention this.
#10
David McKinney
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Posted 29 September 2005 - 04:45
The first two groups will be from 1932 or 1933, when Straight raced a Maserati 8C-2500
#11
Kvadrat
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Posted 29 September 2005 - 06:36
No, it's 1936 because start is already between old Starkey Corner and Red Gate Corner. The film starts with view of Bira standing before his new Ford truck which Chula bought for him for 1936 season. In 1936, Bira and Seaman drove Straight's Maserati.
#12
Vitesse2
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Posted 29 September 2005 - 09:52
I can't see the 8CM in any of those frames, but in any case I don't think they're all the same race. A skillful bit of editing perhaps, patching together two similar films - in frames 5 and 6 the trees are in full leaf. If you look at the trees in the background on the others and the LAT picture, they're still comparatively bare.
Finally, if the 8CM is there, it can't possibly be the Nuffield, since it had a 1500cc limit. Also, I concur with David on the first three - they're 1932-3 and the 8C-2500.
Finally, if the 8CM is there, it can't possibly be the Nuffield, since it had a 1500cc limit. Also, I concur with David on the first three - they're 1932-3 and the 8C-2500.
#13
Kvadrat
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Posted 29 September 2005 - 10:43
Oh, SORRY! I thought of Donington meeting all the way! Of cource, first three sets may be from different year.
As for Donington frames, Richard, you always keen in detecting trees condition! Well, may be all three rows in fourth set were taken in different races. Saying about Straight's Maserati I meant car with heart shaped grille which can be seen in leading position in left frames of 2nd and 3rd rows. Number is 32 in bottom row.
As for Donington frames, Richard, you always keen in detecting trees condition! Well, may be all three rows in fourth set were taken in different races. Saying about Straight's Maserati I meant car with heart shaped grille which can be seen in leading position in left frames of 2nd and 3rd rows. Number is 32 in bottom row.
#14
David McKinney
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Posted 29 September 2005 - 13:09
The 8CM is correctly identified, but it certainly wouldn't be Straight if the year is 1936
#15
Vitesse2
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Posted 29 September 2005 - 13:40
After a lot of digging and a couple of false leads, the bottom four all appear to be the Donington Park Trophy, a support race for the 1934 Nuffield Trophy. Straight won from Penn-Hughes' Alfa, followed by the Bugattis of Howe, Shuttleworth and Martin.
The pictures are from early in the race, since Straight ran away with it later on: the two Bugs chasing him in the first two frames will be Staniland and Howe, on the first lap. The third frame looks to be lap one as well: Straight, Staniland, Howe and Shuttleworth.
In the final frame, I think it's (in order) Shuttleworth, Martin, Penn-Hughes and Dixon (Riley).
The pictures are from early in the race, since Straight ran away with it later on: the two Bugs chasing him in the first two frames will be Staniland and Howe, on the first lap. The third frame looks to be lap one as well: Straight, Staniland, Howe and Shuttleworth.
In the final frame, I think it's (in order) Shuttleworth, Martin, Penn-Hughes and Dixon (Riley).
#16
Kvadrat
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Posted 03 October 2005 - 02:59
Thank you, Richard. It seems that I should ask for help in Donington thread.
#17
Vitesse2
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Posted 03 October 2005 - 17:08
Details are on Leif's site:
http://www.kolumbus....an/gp346.htm#41
Now, while I agree that the number on the front of the Maser looks like 32, from Leif's information it appears to actually be 22
http://www.kolumbus....an/gp346.htm#41
Now, while I agree that the number on the front of the Maser looks like 32, from Leif's information it appears to actually be 22
#19
Kvadrat
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Posted 05 October 2005 - 03:33
I looked closely at middle row and agree that number is definitely 22. May be #32 in bottom frame is optical illusion.
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#20
Kvadrat
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Posted 18 October 2005 - 03:13
Originally posted by Kvadrat
I captured some screenshots from 1936 races, I think. Maserati documentary has little story of Whitney Straight's Maserati. Here's it in Brooklands race with number 8.
In one of two Shelsley Walsh hill-climbs he raced the same car with the same nubmer and #91 plate so I think the climb was short after Brooklands race.
In another Brooklands race he raced with number 2.
Corbis has picture of Whitney Straight in #8 Maserati. Unfortunately, I can't open the picture's page. Here's its thumbnail: http://cache.corbis....44/HU022245.jpg. And here's page with 1934 pictures list: http://pro.corbis.co...x?&i=1208223655. The picture is the first one. May be this will help.
#21
Bino Mk II
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Posted 05 November 2005 - 15:53
Hello for all!
I'm a new member of this Forum and have a question about de 1936 season:
In the book "Circuito da Gávea - Paulo Scali - 2001", the author said that a french driver, called only "Macerdady", raced a Talbot in the Circuito da Gávea race in 1936, and a Bugatti in 1937.
Can anyone help me to know the complete name of this driver?
Thank you!
I'm a new member of this Forum and have a question about de 1936 season:
In the book "Circuito da Gávea - Paulo Scali - 2001", the author said that a french driver, called only "Macerdady", raced a Talbot in the Circuito da Gávea race in 1936, and a Bugatti in 1937.
Can anyone help me to know the complete name of this driver?
Thank you!
