The perfect historic racing magazine

With Motor Sport receiving a bit of a roasting in TNF of late, I was wondering what you would like to see in your ideal historic motor sport magazine. With historic racing growing so quickly, is there some way of covering it better than Haymarket? Or are you all, in fact, happy with the current selection?

This, by the way, bears no relation to my work as a journalist and any future plans I might have...

Originally posted by James Page
With Motor Sport receiving a bit of a roasting in TNF of late, I was wondering what you would like to see in your ideal historic motor sport magazine. With historic racing growing so quickly, is there some way of covering it better than Haymarket? Or are you all, in fact, happy with the current selection?

This, by the way, bears no relation to my work as a journalist and any future plans I might have...

Graham Gauld's "Historic Racing" was pretty near perfect.

Actually.... wait.

Do you mean "A magazine about contemporary races for historic cars", or do you mean "a magazine about the history of motor racing, that also covers the events in which of those cars take part now"?

In the former case, I'm not terribly interested. I enjoy such events for the atmosphere, the cars, and occasionally the racing, but I would be lying if I said I took a serious interest in most "historic racing".

In the latter case, I felt the Gauld mag was superb - it had more depth and less glitz to it than Motor Sport.

'Classic Race & Rally' was about perfect; news, features on cars and drivers, regular columns, and above all, user-friendly............which is probably why the few issues produced sell well at autojumbles etc.


Paul M

Well, I've come round a bit on "Octane" and have actually bought some copies but I still have not seen a copy of the red cover "Motor Sport"! Mr Editor please take note: It looks so different than previously that newsagents in my area (Western Canada) don't seem to be stocking it. I confess to never having seen "Historic Racing", I assume it is defunct by Pete F's comments. My favourite magazine of all time was "Supercar Classics", long defunct but it had good writers, Bob Freeman as regular artist and great focus despite a stupid name imho.
David B

I'd agree with Pete - Historic Racing was the best I've seen in English. Excellent contributors - DCN and DMcK among them - and covered some wonderfully varied subjects.

They even published a letter from me ...

We've kicked this around before of course - if you look at the aviation world, I'd say that Flypast would be a good model to aim at. That covers a vast range of aviation history, often in considerable depth.

( There are some Historic Racing mags on ebay UK.. I would like them but I still don't trust ebay at 100%)

The short lived Historic Racing was a terrific magazine. I was lucky enough to have one of my photos used on the cover of one issue. Still one of the high points of my photographic career!

Cheers,

Kurt

Originally posted by petefenelon


Graham Gauld's "Historic Racing" was pretty near perfect.

Actually.... wait.

Do you mean "A magazine about contemporary races for historic cars", or do you mean "a magazine about the history of motor racing, that also covers the events in which of those cars take part now"?

In the former case, I'm not terribly interested. I enjoy such events for the atmosphere, the cars, and occasionally the racing, but I would be lying if I said I took a serious interest in most "historic racing".

In the latter case, I felt the Gauld mag was superb - it had more depth and less glitz to it than Motor Sport.

Did Graham ever come on here? I met his charming daughter once and asked her to alert him to this place, but I think she said the internet was all a bit new to him at the time. Absolutely loved his book on Ecurie Ecosse.

Doh! just seen a post by Graham in the Colin Bennett thread ... *slinks away* apologies Graham you are obviously very computer literate!

Originally posted by ghinzani
Doh! just seen a post by Graham in the Colin Bennett thread ... *slinks away* apologies Graham you are obviously very computer literate!

And been here for about 6 months and eighty odd posts, I'm very pleased to say.....

Originally posted by petefenelon


Graham Gauld's "Historic Racing" was pretty near perfect.

Actually.... wait.

Do you mean "A magazine about contemporary races for historic cars", or do you mean "a magazine about the history of motor racing, that also covers the events in which of those cars take part now"?

In the former case, I'm not terribly interested. I enjoy such events for the atmosphere, the cars, and occasionally the racing, but I would be lying if I said I took a serious interest in most "historic racing".

In the latter case, I felt the Gauld mag was superb - it had more depth and less glitz to it than Motor Sport.

I was indirectly involved with Historic Racing. Graham did NOT own the magazine. The content was quite good, but it needed to bring in a LOT more advertising revenue and have a LOT more people buying the magazine to succeed. If you look at the two most successful "classic car" magazines Classic and Sportscar and Thoroughbred and Classic, they are at least 50% ads.

In regards to what the magazine would cover, I had in mind a bit of both: the history of motor racing, and the contemporary events in which historic cars now race.

At the moment it seems there is a gap in the market, and I work for a publishing house for which this area would be perfect. They produce over 100 magazines, all written for niche markets targeting a relatively small but passionate and knowledgeable audience.

Being a passionate and (relatively) knowledgeable motor racing fan - and unashamed purist - I thought I would see what the reaction was among TNF.

All this is strictly hypothetical at the moment I might add...

Let's hope it doesn't remain so....

Originally posted by petefenelon
Do you mean "A magazine about contemporary races for historic cars", or do you mean "a magazine about the history of motor racing, that also covers the events in which of those cars take part now"?

How about neither.

I have utterly no interest nor any curiosity whatsoever about historic or vintage car racing -- or whatever the term is for such activity -- and find pages devoted to them a huge waste of paper.

A journal which managed to piece together the best (or better) aspects of Historic Race & Rally, Historic Motor Racing, Vintage Motor Sports, along with the good bits of others such as -- yes -- Motor Sport, Road & Track, and so forth combined into a format and layout such as that found in several of the US magazines of the 1960s would be a good start. Toss in some of the ol' TNF stuff from its heyday, along with some worthwhile writing, and you might have something worth reading.

I would flat refuse to shell out a dime for yet another magazine in which "historic racing" gets any coverage and in some young staffers bash old cars around various venues and then tell me about it -- usually in a poorly written article.

It is obvious that my "perfect" motor racing history -- note that I refuse to use the term "historic motor racing" -- magazine would be seriously dead even before its arrival. I once thought that the notion of such a magazine -- whether virtual or paper -- was possible, but I think that one need not bother to hold one's breath waiting on it.

I think that the success of TNF compared to the equivalent (not that it is...) forum on the ten-tenths forums is evidence that you're right, Don...

Even though there are Historic racers about, the main point of it all is the preservation and revelation of racing history.

The cars, the people, the circuits. None of it can happen again... its time has gone. But many enjoyed it and want to go on enjoying something that will never be surpassed in motor racing.

As I am looking around for what I am going to take with me for the year I am going to be gone, at the moment there is not a single motor racing item that has been selected. One reason is I don't want to risk losing something that is value to me that might be difficult to replace and another reason is that with space being very limited, other books have a higher priority. I am taking a CD containing a set of ebooks of various classics of literature (Milton, Melville, Dickens, Eliot, and so forth) as well as my CD containing all the issues of Gus Vignolle's MotoRacing and another from Phil Harms of the first two years of Speed Age. Otherwise, strictly business or the sort of history I used to teach.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by HDonaldCapps
[B]As I am looking around for what I am going to take with me for the year I am going to be gone,

Blimey Don, one to three years for too many outspoken posts seems a bit rough!

Originally posted by James Page
In regards to what the magazine would cover, I had in mind a bit of both: the history of motor racing, and the contemporary events in which historic cars now race.

At the moment it seems there is a gap in the market, and I work for a publishing house for which this area would be perfect. They produce over 100 magazines, all written for niche markets targeting a relatively small but passionate and knowledgeable audience.

Being a passionate and (relatively) knowledgeable motor racing fan - and unashamed purist - I thought I would see what the reaction was among TNF.

All this is strictly hypothetical at the moment I might add...

The trouble might be in how broad an audience you want; do English enthusiasts really want to hear about US and Aussie etc races and viceversa.
You would need the broad audience, I would think, to make the magazine viable. I agree with Don that reports on modern historic races have very little relevance. So what if an A35 with a 1275 engine and modern tires can beat everything? It has no historical context whatsoever!! And arguably, ERAs, Ferraris, Massers, Listers, etc, etc, etc, with their modern engine internals, electronic controls and sticky tires are in no way representative of the historical scene-
So where do we go from there?

Originally posted by HDonaldCapps


A journal which managed to piece together the best (or better) aspects of Historic Race & Rally, Historic Motor Racing, Vintage Motor Sports, along with the good bits of others such as -- yes -- Motor Sport, Road & Track, and so forth combined into a format and layout such as that found in several of the US magazines of the 1960s would be a good start.

The French magazine AUTOMIBILE HISTORIQUE was also pretty good, but I have not seen one over the last year. I understand there is a drop in quality there...

Originally posted by James Page
In regards to what the magazine would cover, I had in mind a bit of both: the history of motor racing, and the contemporary events in which historic cars now race.

At the moment it seems there is a gap in the market, and I work for a publishing house for which this area would be perfect. They produce over 100 magazines, all written for niche markets targeting a relatively small but passionate and knowledgeable audience.

Being a passionate and (relatively) knowledgeable motor racing fan - and unashamed purist - I thought I would see what the reaction was among TNF.

All this is strictly hypothetical at the moment I might add...

My opinion, for what it's worth.

I like the sound of this very much. My personal wish is for something about the history of motor racing rather than the contemporary stuff, but if the latter is deemed essential to make a new magazine appeal to a broader church, I can live with it. It would be a good thing if it was international in focus, rather than European-centred - my personal interest outside UK racing tends to lie with things in Australia and New Zealand: I have a lot to learn about matters that happened there, so plenty of this would be welcome.

I also have a fascination with the obscure, the failures and people and cars who didn't follow convention and went their own way. Plenty of this kind of stuff would be fine by me, and a lot less articles on stuff that may be popular, such as Ferrari, Porsche and Jaguar, but which has been done to death.

Presentation - it doesn't have to be a Haymarket style work of "art", but neither should it be like the old style Motor Sport, with lots of "continued on page 692" and an ever-diminishing font size to make sure all the words can fit in. Keep it clear and simple. Words should be deemed more important than pictures.

Ian

You have neatly described the ethos of Historic Racing - yes, it had modern historic racing in it but not as "reportage - such as.....on the next lap Fred overtook Joe" rather little stories around odd cars that appeared and even odder drivers. The idea was that too much emphasis is given on the famous and not enough about the less famous. We read so often about the usual Ferrari stories but there are a lot of stories about lesser known people, Drivers,cars and projects still out there. By pure chance I was giving a talk in Italy last week on motor racing history and who should be there but Stefano Iacoponi who joined Ferrari at 22 as a young engineer. He was responsible mainly for the 212E Hill Climb car and its 2 litre flat 12 engine. Some of his insights were fascinating. Now he is President of Fiat's Research Centre
and would probably have been forgotten. People have to work at research and not just cut and paste material published years ago and possibly inaccurate. My ethos is " At any given time you are never told the truth : truth emerges later"

Here endeth the lesson !!

All comments gratefully received and taken on board.

Appealing to a broad market wouldn't be the focus of the magazine - quite the opposite in fact. It would be a specialist magazine in every sense.

I must say I agree with the comments about historic motor racing to an extent. I remember seeing a list of Goodwood lap times from both the cars' heydays and the Revival. They are considerably quicker now, thanks to modern technology. Finding an original, historic racing car still competing is near impossible. But I still say it's better than having them sitting in museums, and warrants some coverage. Can you imagine ANY historic magazine not reporting on either Goodwood meeting?

I am, however, in total agreement with the post referring to staff track testing racing cars. Unless you know the person has properly got stuck into it, it compromises the whole article. Far better to have a racing driver test the car, and a journalist write up what they made of it.

Originally posted by James Page
I am, however, in total agreement with the post referring to staff track testing racing cars. Unless you know the person has properly got stuck into it, it compromises the whole article. Far better to have a racing driver test the car, and a journalist write up what they made of it.

What tends to compromise them more is the fact that it very often turns out that the car in question is for sale .... with a full- or half-page advert from the vendor adjacent to the "track test".

Not that I'm a cynic or anything

Another good point, well made...

It's a bit like articles about MGBs, E-types and other cliche cars in classic cars magazines: " not again!!!"

Ah yes, a sad reflection on motives for many years...

I never felt it was right with Racing Car News... they would carry a story about a car, and miraculously that car was for sale in that issue!

Rather like Motor Sport's blatant commercialism in their jaunts in different BMWs (or whatever...) to do their seedy 'track test' series.

When a story about an old circuit is written it needs more than photos of some flash new car placed somewhere similar to Wimille in an Alfetta in 1948... it needs some guts. It needs to reflect the people behind it and the people who raced on it, their attitudes to it and their feelings at its ultimate loss. It needs facts and figures to give it relevance, too.

A story about a car needs to have the soul of the creators explained. Why did they do it that way? What limitations were on them? Who actually formed the metal? What were they seeking to achieve? Where did the money come from? Unless it goes some distance towards answering these questions, or even explaining that some facets are lost in the mists of time, it misses the mark badly.

When compiling a mini-biography of a driver, it must be the whole man, not just the weekend warrior. It must encompass his failings as well as his successes, his life before going racing and his life (if any) after he ended his career.

Nothing is relevant unless there is a background. You might not see it in a painting, but in a word painting it is very important.

Any paper magazine has to give me something that t'electronic interwebthingy doesn't.

The web scores on immediacy, "liveness", and ability to exchange information. It's good for presenting shortish articles, low-resolution pictures, and for collaboratively thrashing out some kind of representation of what happened.

Paper is good for the long, leisurely read, and for the display of decent-quality pictures.

I don't think I would want "just another monthly magazine". What I'd like would be something that comes out maybe 3-4 times a year and runs a limited number of longer stories - a handful of maybe 20- page essays by people who really know what they're talking about - stuff that's not substantial enough for a full-length book, but that does need writing down and putting into a permanent form. I'm thinking of stuff like Barry's Connew story here, or a feature on the Mecanica Nacional series and its weird cars, or stories based on research like Allen's work on oldracingcars.

You're appealing to a small and specialist audience going this way, not to people who want to see "Niki Lauda's Old Ferrari" or "Schumacher vs Senna - Who's The Greatest?" - but what you're doing is making a place for real writing and scholarship.

Sadly, I think there's no way you'd ever make money out of it. The Pebble Beach crowd want to see their famous cars on glossy art-paper; the mass racing audience doesn't care...

Originally posted by Ray Bell

When a story about an old circuit is written it needs more than photos of some flash new car placed somewhere similar to Wimille in an Alfetta in 1948... it needs some guts. It needs to reflect the people behind it and the people who raced on it, their attitudes to it and their feelings at its ultimate loss. It needs facts and figures to give it relevance, too.

A story about a car needs to have the soul of the creators explained. Why did they do it that way? What limitations were on them? Who actually formed the metal? What were they seeking to achieve? Where did the money come from? Unless it goes some distance towards answering these questions, or even explaining that some facets are lost in the mists of time, it misses the mark badly.

When compiling a mini-biography of a driver, it must be the whole man, not just the weekend warrior. It must encompass his failings as well as his successes, his life before going racing and his life (if any) after he ended his career.

That is IT , exactly. Just what I'm looking for.

I'm not against car tests on a track as It's more about how they are written, about how good the journalists are.
I remember a nice article in Octane magazine where they compared different Bugattis ( five or six of them and with only one that had modern technology for historic racing).
The narration made you really feel as if you were in the car, you could easily feel all the sensations.
The same month or later I bought a Automobile Historique and there was a Bugatti test drive at Spa... Boring! Poorly written, in my opinion, and the pictures had a "certain lack of imagination" (to paraphrase Sarti).
It's a bit like car museums.
Ok, you see a beautiful shiny car, but to "experience" it, you need to see and hear it moving. Ultimatly, you need a ride in the car to understand it, more or less, fully.

I could give you some examples if my storage hard drive hadn't died...

Though I think the Bright circuit story is about somewhere... try here:

www.iimetro.com.au/~raybell/ClosedCircuitBright.doc

Not the best example, but getting there.

I have some very definite ideas as to what I would consider to be the parameters for a worthwhile motor racing history journal.

I think Graham's last effort was certainly in the ballpark.

I have seen a copies of AUTOMIBILE HISTORIQUE and it does appear that the recent efforts are certainly lesser images of the early issues.

As mentioned, there are several models from the aviation history community which could be used for the motor racing community, but for many and various reasons have not. Keep in mind that even the aviation history community has its problems with paper-based products these days, there being several excellent efforts that have either been relegated to the archives or have had to accept certain realities and modify their presentation and/or content.

Having been down this road a few times now, pardon my lack of enthusiasm, but this is one big pain in the ass to make happen. It is a difficult feat to even attempt in virtual form and doing it in paper is several factors worse than that. Getting it started and pushing out a few issues is the (relatively) easy part, surviving a year or two or three or more while still providing a worthwhile product is the killer. Many here can speak from experience on that point, I am sure.

Would I love to be able to either walk to the mailbox or into Borders and find the latest issue of, say, Rear View Mirror, and spend several evenings reading through it and then refer to it regularly over the coming years? Of course, I would. However, don't look to me to hold my breath in the meantime.

That we can't even create a decent virtual journal for motor racing history should tell you something.

It strikes me what is being advocated above is very similar to Mr. William Boddy's section of Motor Sport, which for me is far and away the best part of the publication with plenty of lovely B&W photos.
So is anyone thinking of producing a magazine about racing long ago ?

Ray, thanks for all your suggestions – and for posting that article. Having scanned through it, it seems to be the sort of style I had in mind too. I will print it out and read it properly outside work hours!

As for the troubles of launching a magazine, and having had some indirect experience of it recently, I can certainly see 'HDonaldCapps' point. But I don't see that, or the failure to produce a decent online journal, as any reason to not try and get something out there; the market obviously exists. The mention of a quarterly journal rather than 'just another monthly' makes perfect sense in this regard.

Maybe in time I will have been proved to be extraordinarily naive, but there we go.

Originally posted by Ray Bell
I could give you some examples if my storage hard drive hadn't died...

Though I think the Bright circuit story is about somewhere... try here:

www.iimetro.com.au/~raybell/ClosedCircuitBright.doc

Not the best example, but getting there.

Marvellous. You can sense the atmosphere of the place, and almost smell the gum trees. Educational too, for ignorant Poms like myself. Both nostalgia and facts in one article, and that's not always an easy thing to do.

You mean smell the dust, surely?

Thanks Ian. Like I said, not the best example, but full of character and characters. Would that I could have given you I Used To Have A Bus but that's in cold (way too cold...) storage for the moment.

My Longford and Lobethal stories, along with Warwick Farm and Surfers Paradise, are on Bernd's Tasman site. They mostly lack certain things there, details that I include in a table or breakout, lap record progress, financial situations.

An online publication should have a black background with wlight grey fonts. Long articles are quite difficult to read for the eyes.
Indeed you could print directly the web-page or print a PDF but it would missing the point about saving paper.
A subscription could avoid the need of advertisment banners and cover the cost of renting a server's space and finance the research's costs.

I've worked in Arts publishing and an Arts magazine as a desktop publisher. Our motto(?) was to have the best pictures with the best image reproduction, the nicest paper quality (so smooth, it was nice to caress it), the best historians to write articles, the best layout (simple, contemporary and effective), good and discret major advertisers.
We even had the magazine published in a flemish version and in a french version.
The magazine disappeared because it didn't make enought money and the subscribers were not really well treated by the administration side...
What made it a nice magazine is that we didn't have a short dead-line... we would publish it for the opening of big exhibitions. It was fascinating to work on Europalia Polska to discover polish 19th century art and polish contemporary art.
My point is that, even if you are really passionate about the subject, it was all about money

Ok, enought of my fluff.

Originally posted by RTH
It strikes me what is being advocated above is very similar to Mr. William Boddy's section of Motor Sport, which for me is far and away the best part of the publication with plenty of lovely B&W photos.
So is anyone thinking of producing a magazine about racing long ago ?

Gods no, WB's section of Motor Sport is a random "brain dump". Some of what WB has to say is utterly fascinating, some of it appears to be of interest only to himself. WB needs disciplined editing. He is a remarkable mind, someone who knows almost infinite amounts about the history of cars and motoring, pre-ww2 racing, and Brooklands in particular, but he is chaotic!

Originally posted by Ray Bell

Rather like Motor Sport's blatant commercialism in their jaunts in different BMWs (or whatever...) to do their seedy 'track test' series.

Is "seedy" really a fair or accurate description? I think not. Look through the magazine and you'll not find any financial support from the manufacturers from whom we've borrowed cars. The appearance of a Porsche or BMW in a story is actually driven by a number of factors;

1) If the manufacturer is content to take one of our journalists to the launch of a car that happens to be close to an old circuit, we'll take them up on the opportunity. Our budgets don't very often stretch far enough on their own, and I don't believe that we can in all faith be accused of bias for featuring photos of the car in return.

2) I'm certain that we'd be accused of far worse were we to feature photography of one of the current (privately owned) fleet of vehicles, and I'm certain that Damien's company 1.4 focus (5 door, plastic wheel covers) would attract the ire of individuals here too. I for one find it interesting to see pictures of famous corners as they are now, particularly with street circuits, and I know that many readers agree.

Your point about the story of individuals, tracks or cars lacking depth is all very well, but I do think you're perhaps accusing magazines of failing to achieve something that they should never aspire to. For most subjects that we'll cover there will be a book that goes into far more depth than we can ever hope to in our 1000-2000 words, and rightly so. If you want to find out everything there is to know, go and buy the book. If you have a more rounded general interest in motor racing and would like it gently extended each month, buy a magazine.

As for the point about racing cars appearing in print only when they are for sale, well I'm inclined to agree up to a point. It is a fact that owners of rare exotica are very often only prepared to allow journalists (or racing drivers) behind the wheel when there is an agenda, however it would be churlish for us to turn down the stories of ALL of these cars for this reason alone. Particularly when a car hasn't appeared in public for many years, and may not be seen again for very many. Believe me, there are many, many cars that we have turned down because their story is insufficiently interesting to cover just because the car is for sale. There are also many cars that have sold without any significant drive story in the press, despite our efforts to the contrary.

I'm rather enjoying the discussion about the prospect of a new historic racing magazine though. I'm fascinated by the divide into those who enjoy reading about the history of cars compared to cars driven/raced today. The extent to which our market is split unequivocally into one or the other category is frustratingly difficult to quantify.

Originally posted by petefenelon


Gods no, WB's section of Motor Sport is a random "brain dump". Some of what WB has to say is utterly fascinating, some of it appears to be of interest only to himself. WB needs disciplined editing. He is a remarkable mind, someone who knows almost infinite amounts about the history of cars and motoring, pre-ww2 racing, and Brooklands in particular, but he is chaotic!

Yes. There is a place for that kind of thing, but by no stretch of the imagination should it be the prevailing overall style for the magazine. I'd end up screaming if I had to wade through pages of self indulgent ramblings of that ilk.

Unfortunately, I don't think there is enough of a market to justify a magazine on automotive and racing history. Graham and Joe's effort with Historic Racing was very good, but with out substantial ad revenue, a big marketing effort to let people know it existed, and substantially more sales of the magazine itself, it failed. I know we all don't want magazines that are half ads, but that is the only way in which they stand a chance to succeed.

A magazine being financed just by subscritpions is not realistic then?
Subscribers being patrons (mécènes).

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Ah yes, a sad reflection on motives for many years...

I never felt it was right with Racing Car News... they would carry a story about a car, and miraculously that car was for sale in that issue!

Rather like Motor Sport's blatant commercialism in their jaunts in different BMWs (or whatever...) to do their seedy 'track test' series.

When a story about an old circuit is written it needs more than photos of some flash new car placed somewhere similar to Wimille in an Alfetta in 1948... it needs some guts. It needs to reflect the people behind it and the people who raced on it, their attitudes to it and their feelings at its ultimate loss. It needs facts and figures to give it relevance, too.

A story about a car needs to have the soul of the creators explained. Why did they do it that way? What limitations were on them? Who actually formed the metal? What were they seeking to achieve? Where did the money come from? Unless it goes some distance towards answering these questions, or even explaining that some facets are lost in the mists of time, it misses the mark badly.

When compiling a mini-biography of a driver, it must be the whole man, not just the weekend warrior. It must encompass his failings as well as his successes, his life before going racing and his life (if any) after he ended his career.

Nothing is relevant unless there is a background. You might not see it in a painting, but in a word painting it is very important.

Very well said.

I think the commercial reality is that there will - often - be a further commercial angle behind a story being included in a mag. Whether it is the promotion of a brand of new car or the indirect advertising of an old car being for sale. Those are probably as much a fact of life today in journalism as "product placement" is in movies. And absent a true different way of financing car mags, will remain so.

BUT THAT SHOULDN"T PREVENT EVERY JOURNO DOING SUCH AN ARTICLE FROM ASPIRING TO MEET THE STANDARDS RAY SETS OUT (imho - rant off!!!!)

Originally posted by Stuart_Forrest
Is "seedy" really a fair or accurate description? I think not. Look through the magazine and you'll not find any financial support from the manufacturers from whom we've borrowed cars.....

No, Stuart, it isn't the presence of the car that makes the articles 'seedy'... it's the lack of solid information...

I'm not the only one to have mentioned the 'jaunt in the flash new car' aspect of the stories, and it's quite relevant too. But it's the guts of the story that matters. 1000 words is never going to do it, 1500 either, 2000 and you're still struggling. That Bright story I've linked above is almost 3000, and while I'm happy with the opening and closing of the article, I feel it still needs something in the body. Of course, you rely on photographs to carry some of the load.

One area in which we see things quite differently is in your perspective about books.

When I do an article, I approach it with the underlying thought, mostly, that it will never be written up again. That I have to get it right this time, as there won't be another chance for anyone to complete the tale, to correct an error or to add a bit of flavour.

For instance, would anyone care to write about the McCormack M23 Leyland? Here, of course, it mattered for a short time, but on the International scene it was merely a testy waste of time while the car was between F1 and a museum.

Likely, any book about the M23s will totally ignore this fascinating (and successful) side-plot in the life of the model.

Originally posted by Stuart_Forrest

As for the point about racing cars appearing in print only when they are for sale, well I'm inclined to agree up to a point. It is a fact that owners of rare exotica are very often only prepared to allow journalists (or racing drivers) behind the wheel when there is an agenda, however it would be churlish for us to turn down the stories of ALL of these cars for this reason alone. Particularly when a car hasn't appeared in public for many years, and may not be seen again for very many. Believe me, there are many, many cars that we have turned down because their story is insufficiently interesting to cover just because the car is for sale.

During the Fearnley era, the Green'un was horrifically guilty of excessive track tests of uninteresting things that just happened to be for sale. Read one account of a tall journo bloke doing slow laps in a Cosworth-Hewland F1 kit car and you've read them all.... It did nothing for the credibility of the magazine, it added very little to our store of knowledge about the cars, and while I'm sure it was fun for Paul, the cars' owners, and those who were getting a few bob commission for selling them, it made for pretty dull reading. It does seem that these excesses have been reined considerably though. It's saying something when there was duller content in a magazine than Simon Taylor's articles on modern F1... ;P

Stu

Thank y ou for the comments but it was not quite as simple as that. The unprinted sixth issue of Historic Motor Racing had more ads but distribution was one of the key problems. Barnes and Noble in the US had agreed to stock the magazine in their stores after seeing the first four issues but distribution in Great Britain was the major problem. To give you an example the major distributor sent a fascinating letter saying that they had made a Board decision not to accept distribution of any new magazine unless it had POTENTIAL annual GROSS sales of £1 million !!!!!! Now isn't that a ridiculous situation. That is the kind of thing you are up against in the snake pit that is the magazine and book distribution scene.

GG

Thanks for your contributions Stu - I must admit I, too, was surprised by the split between those interested in the history of motor racing on one side, and historic motor racing on the other. It's a useful point though, and one of the reasons why I started the thread - these are the things one needs to know.

And from what Graham has said, these ventures need the support of a sizeable publishing house.

Originally posted by James Page
I must admit I, too, was surprised by the split between those interested in the history of motor racing on one side, and historic motor racing on the other.

It is an interesting point, and not one I'd focused on before. On reflection I cannot recall ever reading any articles on historic motor racing. I'll read track tests of old cars but have always viewed the pages devoted to historic motor racing as interesting other folks and the baggage the magazine has to carry to give me what I'm interested in - the history of motor racing.

Historic racing is also divided between the ones who fancy 5-star hotels and the ones who prefeir the conviviality of a rustic auberge.

Originally posted by Ruairidh


It is an interesting point, and not one I'd focused on before. On reflection I cannot recall ever reading any articles on historic motor racing. I'll read track tests of old cars but have always viewed the pages devoted to historic motor racing as interesting other folks and the baggage the magazine has to carry to give me what I'm interested in - the history of motor racing.

Absolutely. My interest in "historic motor racing" is as a chance to see old cars (and sometimes old drivers!) and on the same kinetic level that I get satisfaction from even the dullest contemporary stuff. I can't say that I'm "interested" in more than about a dozen regulars on the historic scene.

I agree with you Pete. The Festival of Speed, for example, is just as much about seeing the drivers as the cars. You'll all have to excuse me while I go away for the weekend, but thanks for your comments so far. I look forward to seeing how the thread has developed when I return!