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Maurice's nose

Started by Barry Boor , Aug 09 2005 07:28

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36 replies to this topic

#1 Barry Boor

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Posted 09 August 2005 - 07:28

I was very pleased recently to win a 43rd scale model kit on Ebay. It is the Cooper Maserati of Scuderia Serenissima, as driven during 1961 by Maurice Trintignant.

I cannot recall EVER seeing a picture of this car before, although I don't doubt there were one or two in Autosport at the time.

The surprising thing to me, apart from the really weird body they clothed this T.51 with, is the fact that the coloured bands around the nose of the car are red, white and BLUE.

I seem to recall a photo of said driver in, IIRC, a Centro Sud Cooper Maserati at the Station in Monaco in 1960 (if I am wrong, please don't hesitate to tell me!) and this car had the same sort of coloured nose bands but red, white and GREEN. Naturally, I assumed that being an Italian entered car, the 1961 car would also include green despite being a different team. Another assumption now is that the blue was in honour of the French driver.

Incidentally, I DO NOT INTEND TO STICK THE INNES IRELAND FIGURE ON THE BACK OF THE CAR (as per the, apparently, famous Spa photograph) for many reasons, not least the fact that scaling up the driver from the 1/43rd scale, he is almost 7 feet tall (over 2 metres!)

I am not looking for any particular reasons for this, although it would be interesting to know, I just needed to tell somebody! :rolleyes:

#2 Rob Ryder

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Posted 09 August 2005 - 19:36

Is this the animal Barry :smoking:

(Source unknown)

#3 Barry Boor

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Posted 09 August 2005 - 20:24

Now I am even more confused becaused this IS 1961 - but the car has a normal T.51 body on it here, so it must have been re-bodied between Monaco and Spa.

You see, I have always 'read' that nose band as green, but clearly it must have been blue all along, though in this picture it is somewhat indeterminate.

As soon as I finish my model, I'll put a picture on this thread.

Thanks for that picture, Rob.

Now, do you have one of M. T. in the Centro Sud car the year before? (#44)

#4 Rob Ryder

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Posted 09 August 2005 - 21:36

Sorry Barry, I don't have Monaco 1960... how about Holland?
Posted Image

This is the 'famous' Ireland pic from 1961 Spa...
Posted Image

#5 bigears

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Posted 09 August 2005 - 23:31

Ah, thank you!

I was wondering what Barry mean there about the "famous Spa photograph."

#6 Barry Boor

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Posted 10 August 2005 - 06:29

Thanks again, Rob.

YES, that last photo is the model I am building. But, as I said, I am leaving off the 7 foot Innes!

I shall number the car as it was at Reims.

#7 Keir

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Posted 10 August 2005 - 15:19

Can't wait to see the finished product !!

You'll have to explain the "seven foot" Innes ??

#8 Keir

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Posted 10 August 2005 - 15:34

Barry,
I was just on ebay and I saw a model with the Innes figure riding on back.
The description in the ad can not be what is pictured ?? The model in the picture looks way too simplistic and the ad speaks of "photo etched " parts ?? Sorry, I don't see any !! ..... and "cockpit details that will blow you away ??" Don't see that either !!

Very, very strange !!

#9 Barry Boor

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Posted 10 August 2005 - 19:00

Keir, post a link, please. I'd like to see it.

#10 turin

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Posted 10 August 2005 - 19:37

Keir,

Is this one you´re talking about?

http://cgi.ebay.com/...1QQcmdZViewItem

-pato

#11 Barry Boor

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Posted 10 August 2005 - 19:44

Unless this guy had 2 of these, that shouldn't be there any more because that's the one I bought!

I don't know about cockpit detail - there is a steering wheel and a pin to use as a gear lever, and of course, a seat for the driver; however, the suspension arms are photo-etched. 'Orrible things you have to bend ar right-angles to get them to fit and the resultant suspension NEVER seems to sit square.

So far I have sprayed the body, base and wheels and have bent the rear suspension arms. There are 2 additional pieces to glue on to create the leaf spring at the rear.

As you can see from the photo, the Innes Ireland looks very tall - 2 metres in scale size, whereas the Trintignant in the car is a dwarf! I shall use neither.

Incidentally, I bought a Mk.1 B.R.M V.16 kit off the same seller.

#12 turin

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Posted 10 August 2005 - 19:53

Barry,

You´re making me to consider resuming modeling.
How did you bend the suspension arms? A trick used to work with me was heating the pieces a little bit with a 100w bulb. Works ok with no significant side effects, other than an even heating of the whole piece.

-pato

#13 Barry Boor

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Posted 10 August 2005 - 19:59

Nothing so technical, I'm afraid! I simply grip the round part with flat jawed pliers, making sure that the point of the fold is in line, then I use my finger to bend it around the edge of the pliers to approximately 90 degrees.

Bog simple but it works quite well.

Regarding models - I only like unusual ones. I was really disappointed yesterday when I missed a 1963 A.T.S kit. The second A.T.S I have missed in the last couple of weeks.

I have a 1962 Cooper T.60 part made and a D.50 Lancia ready to start.

#14 Frank de Jong

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Posted 10 August 2005 - 20:13

I have a Honda S800 racing car and a half-built 1993 Alfa Romeo 155TI DTM. Both have been gathering dust since March 2001 (is it that long?). My site is to blame.
Choices, choices...

#15 Roger Clark

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Posted 10 August 2005 - 23:11

DSJ's report of the 1961 Belgian GP said that Trintingnant had "a 1960 Cooper chassis with a four cylinder Maserati engine and Colotti gearbox, and having a new body shape with a rather square looking tail." I assume that a 1960 Cooper implies a T53 in modern parlance. However, the car he drove at Spa is clearly not a T53, it looks to me like a 1959 car (T51?) with a T53-like body. If the chassis numbers in Sheldon are correct then it is the same car as he drove at Monaco. It is not the car he drove in 1960. In 1959 and 60 the car was run by BRP/Yeoman Credit. In '59 it was usually raced in Formula 2 from with a Borgward engine and driven by Ivor Bueb. It was in this car that he had his fatal crash.

#16 jj2728

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Posted 10 August 2005 - 23:51

Maybe we could start a thread on 1/43 collectibles. I think it would tie in well with the Nostalgia forum as there are so many fine pieces available now-a-days from races past, that for me, someone who has had the collecting bug for over 40 years, it's manna from heaven. Racing machines that I thought would never see the light of day are being produced as built ups or diecast from various manufacturers and to very high standards. My wallet can certainly testify to that......here's just a few that I've recently added to my collection

http://www.alpimodel...ixo/lm1951.html
http://www.alpimodel.../bzr/bz124.html
http://www.alpimodel.com/bzr/bz36.html

#17 David McKinney

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Posted 11 August 2005 - 04:57

Originally posted by Roger Clark
I assume that a 1960 Cooper implies a T53 in modern parlance

Not necessarily. The 1960 F1/F2 Cooper was the T51. Only the factory had T53s
I was never happy with the Black Book numbering of Scuderia Serenissima entries, but believe there might have been more than one car. Perhaps the Belgian GP car was not the Monaco one at all

#18 Roger Clark

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Posted 11 August 2005 - 05:55

Originally posted by David McKinney

Not necessarily. The 1960 F1/F2 Cooper was the T51. Only the factory had T53s
I was never happy with the Black Book numbering of Scuderia Serenissima entries, but believe there might have been more than one car. Perhaps the Belgian GP car was not the Monaco one at all

True, but if DSJ referred, in 1961, to "a 1960 Cooper" I still think it's reasonable to infer that he meant a T53. On the other hand the fact that he didn't say "the Monaco car re bodied" might imply a different car.

#19 Paul Medici

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Posted 11 August 2005 - 05:59

Whoo, that's 1/43 scale? Looks like real bonnet straps on the Jag. :love:

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#20 Barry Boor

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Posted 11 August 2005 - 07:34

Goody! This thread is becoming more interesting than I either thought or even hoped it would.

Obviously, being a total know-nothing about chassis numbers etc, I can add nothing to the above posts, except that.... looking to produce a slot-racing version of this car as it is bang 'in period' for one of my series, I find that a T.53 body seems to match the overall shape of the Serenissima special nigh on perfectly.

The strange lump in front of the driver and the flat deck behind him should be quite easily reproduced.

I cannot say with any authority that the car was a 51 or a 53 (the model manufacturers call it a 51), but ain't it nice to see something different....?

#21 David McKinney

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Posted 11 August 2005 - 08:27

Originally posted by Roger Clark
if DSJ referred, in 1961, to "a 1960 Cooper" I still think it's reasonable to infer that he meant a T53

I disagree
I believe that "a 1960 Cooper" would imply T51, especially writing in 1961, when "a 1961 Cooper" would a T53

#22 Macca

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Posted 11 August 2005 - 10:05

Barry,
Were those ATS models you missed old discontinued ones, or new?

(GP Models lists a future model with a CGI image:)
http://www.grandprix...&c=&myID=0

Is there a link to them?

Paul M

#23 Keir

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Posted 11 August 2005 - 14:01

Barry,

turin posted the link, that can't be the car described in the ad !!

...... best of luck with what you are building.

#24 Macca

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Posted 11 August 2005 - 15:07

And to think when I first saw this thread, I thought it was about Trintignant's wine-tasting skills.......

Paul M

#25 Barry Boor

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Posted 11 August 2005 - 17:51

Macca, they were 'old' kits; but then, if a kit is unbuilt, it doesn't really matter how old it is, does it?

The only danger is that the tyres have gone hard and split when you stretch them on to the wheels, as has happened with my pre-Costin Vanwall kit.

#26 dretceterini

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Posted 11 August 2005 - 23:16

I believe that there was an ATS in 1/43rd in Mikansue's old Circuit Series brand of cars something like 25 years ago. The new model might be not much more than a re-cast.

#27 Pils1989

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Posted 11 August 2005 - 23:33

I have a Burago Citroen Traction Avant with a 250 TR engine!
Hey... I was 11....

#28 Barry Boor

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Posted 17 August 2005 - 15:09

My model is complete. What a funny looking Cooper this was....

Posted Image

#29 Vicuna

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Posted 17 August 2005 - 18:26

cool

#30 D-Type

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Posted 17 August 2005 - 20:47

Very nice, Barry.

Now you've got to do the 1/32 version1

#31 Barry Boor

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Posted 17 August 2005 - 20:54

YES!

#32 Keir

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Posted 18 August 2005 - 14:18

It looks quite a bit different from the other pic. Much more detail !!

Very well done, Barry !!

#33 Ray Bell

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Posted 18 August 2005 - 21:06

One of the greater achievements, I think...

#34 Barry Boor

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Posted 18 August 2005 - 21:11

Slot car version started this evening.

Mine will have to be based on a T.53 though.....

#35 Barry Boor

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Posted 24 August 2005 - 07:01

D-type said:

Now you've got to do the 1/32 version

...and here it is...

Posted Image

As I said earlier, this is based on a T.53 not a T.51. The Serenissima badge is a bit on the big side but the words are actually legible! It is a tad high on the body but this is because I did not want to have to put it across the body join and hence have to slice it in half. Decals are so delicate.

It has not run yet (no engine installed) but will make its debut at my French Grand Prix next week.

#36 Macca

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Posted 29 November 2005 - 11:24

I recently found a couple of interesting pictures; a different view of Maurice and Innes at Spa, and one of Jack Lewis in the tunnel at the 'Ring in 1962: