First Brazilian GP

Next GP will be held at Interlagos. Brazil is hosting F1 GPs since 1972. That year, it was a non championship GP, however I remember that it was a very interesting race.
Carlos Reutemann was the winner being that his second race in formula 1.
Does anyone else remember that race ? Any photos ?

While we're in a thread with this particular title...

Was there a Brazilian Grand Prix before F1 became part of it?

White,
I was there ! Not really interesting, only 11 or 12 cars present at the start, some 4 or 5 Marlboro BRM.
Obvioulsy the crowd went crazy with Fittipaldi leading most of the time but having a mechanical failure (suspension collapsed) near the end.
Interlagos at that time was a marvelous circuit, almost 8 kms long, but the track was so dirt (dust )that some 3 or 4 cars stopped before the second lap with mechanical problems.
Anyway, it was our first F1 race and it was necessary to prove that the country could held a Championship GP.
But those were much better days for F1 fans than today, things were simple, romantic, drivers were just (almost ) normal people that we admired.
And in 1973 we had a real F1 race, with everybody present (Stewart, Ickx, Fittipaldi, Peterson, Cévert) !
Now you have a F1 grid where most of the drivers NEVER won an important race !
If you remember, we had a Brazilian F1 driver that raced in this category for some 3 or 4 years and NEVER won a single race in his life, even when driving go-karts !
That is absolutely ridiculous.
But now I am changing subject ...
VBR.
André Acker.

Originally posted by Andre Acker
White,
I was there ! Not really interesting, only 11 or 12 cars present at the start, some 4 or 5 Marlboro BRM.
Obvioulsy the crowd went crazy with Fittipaldi leading most of the time but having a mechanical failure (suspension collapsed) near the end.
Interlagos at that time was a marvelous circuit, almost 8 kms long, but the track was so dirt (dust )that some 3 or 4 cars stopped before the second lap with mechanical problems.
Anyway, it was our first F1 race and it was necessary to prove that the country could held a Championship GP.
But those were much better days for F1 fans than today, things were simple, romantic, drivers were just (almost ) normal people that we admired.
And in 1973 we had a real F1 race, with everybody present (Stewart, Ickx, Fittipaldi, Peterson, Cévert) !
Now you have a F1 grid where most of the drivers NEVER won an important race !
If you remember, we had a Brazilian F1 driver that raced in this category for some 3 or 4 years and NEVER won a single race in his life, even when driving go-karts !
That is absolutely ridiculous.
But now I am changing subject ...
VBR.
André Acker.

Thank you André,

I was living in Brazil then and the very interesting thing about that race was that it was not abroad. It was at home !
Those were really much better days for F1 fans however, whenever I tell this to youngsters, they look at me with disrespect as if they were thinking: " look, another nostalgic one ! ".
At the face of the F1 we have nowadays, I look at them with some pity for all the good things they have not seen.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Oi André, ainda conservo um recorte de jornal da época que guardo como um tesouro.
Abraços, White

Originally posted by Andre Acker

If you remember, we had a Brazilian F1 driver that raced in this category for some 3 or 4 years and NEVER won a single race in his life, even when driving go-karts !
That is absolutely ridiculous.
André Acker.

Now that'd be a fascinating list to compile - people who, since the Superlicence regs came in, got into F1 without ever having won a race. I believe Baumgartner makes that list, doesn't he?

Pete,
My "favourite" is Pedro Diniz, the man who NEVER won a single race, I think that he could not win even a race with those "cars" from his father's supermarket !

White,
Where do you live now ?
And we maybe nostalgics but I am quite sure that those were better times.

Ray,
We had F1 races in Rio de Janeiro in the 40's / 50's in a street circuit, Hans Stück (father) raced here, and other people like Pintacuda (it seems that he became very famous in Brasil at that time as his name became sinonimous to someone driving very fast in the streets - "who do you think you are, Pintacuda ?").
I did not see this as I was born in 1957, so I am informing based on things I read (and not consulting these articles !).
I read once at "Sport Auto" (French magazine), in the issue dedicated to the 1974 Brazilian GP, an article telling a hilarious story : in one of those 40's / 50's Brazilian GPs in Rio, the favourite was Chico Landi. He was a good Brazilian driver and had a much better car than the other competitors, including those form abroad. At the end of the race, he had a mechanical problem and the victory went to a "foreigner" (I can not remember who it was). When he went to the victory cerimony, to collect his cup, he noted that the Brazilian authorities were upset .
Arriving at the hotel he read what was engraved in the cup : "To Chico Landi, Hero of Brasil, winner of the ... (year) GP" !
Now, I wonder if someone has this particular "Sport Auto" issue, I am almost sure that it was from the beginning of 1974. I would like to read the article again.

Regards,
André acker.

Originally posted by Andre Acker
Pete,
White,
Where do you live now ?
And we maybe nostalgics but I am quite sure that those were better times.

Ray,
We had F1 races in Rio de Janeiro in the 40's / 50's in a street circuit, Hans Stück (father) raced here, and other people like Pintacuda (it seems that he became very famous in Brasil at that time as his name became sinonimous to someone driving very fast in the streets - "who do you think you are, Pintacuda ?").
André acker.

Hi André,

I live in Spain since long ago. You can check it in my "profile". Curiously, I am only a few days older than you and Merzario is among our favorite drivers.

Regarding Pintacuda, I knew he became sinonimous to imprudent drivers. The same happens here in Spain with Emerson Fittipaldi: " Who do you think you are, Fitipaldi ? ". Someone who drives too fast is immediately nicknamed "FITIPALDI" ( with one only T ).

Originally posted by petefenelon
Now that'd be a fascinating list to compile - people who, since the Superlicence regs came in, got into F1 without ever having won a race. I believe Baumgartner makes that list, doesn't he?

No, he did win six races in the German Formula Renault championship, but he never won a race in F3, nor in F3000 and never finished on the podium either! BTW Jean Denis Deletraz has a similar pedigree, but at least he managed to finished twice on the rostrum in F3000.

Back on topic, here you can find the entry list of the 1972 Brazilian Grand Prix.

In 1972 there was a race at Interlagos, held on Thursday (!!) 30th March

Grid
E. Fittipaldi - Lotus
Reutemann - Brabham
Peterson - March
W. Fittipaldi - Brabham
Walker - Lotus
Beltoise - BRM
Pace - March
Pescarolo - March
Gethin - BRM
Bueno - march
Marko - BRM
Soler-Roig - BRM

Race
1 Reutemann
2 Peterson
3 W. Fittipaldi
4 Marki
5 Walker
6 Bueno

Here is a pic from the start:


In 1974 there was also a (almost forgotten) race at the Brasilia circuit on 3rd February

Grid
Reutemann - Brabham
E. Fittipaldi - McLaren
Scheckter - Tyrrell
Pace - Surtees
Merzario - Iso
Beltoise - BRM
W. Fittipaldi - Brabham
Mass - Surtees
Pescarolo - BRM
Ganley - March
Stuck - March
Hunt - March

Race
1 E. Fittipaldi
2 Scheckter
3 Merzario
4 Mass
5 W. Fittipaldi
6 Ganley
also finished: Pescarolo, Beltoise, Pace, Stuck

Here is a pic from the start:


both pics from Chris Ellard - The forgotten races (the three litre Formula one non-championship races 1966 to 1983) - W3 Publications. Very good to be recommended book.

Originally posted by WHITE
Carlos Reutemann was the winner being that his second race in formula 1.

I believe this was actually Carlos' 4th F1 race. The previous year he did the Argentinian Grand Prix in a McLaren and also drove a BT33 at Brands.

Originally posted by lofong

I believe this was actually Carlos' 4th F1 race. The previous year he did the Argentinian Grand Prix in a McLaren and also drove a BT33 at Brands.

Thankyou lofong.

Those were also non-championship races and one tend to forget them. However, the race at Brands Hatch was stopped at lap 15 due to Siffert's fatal accident so it was not a proper race.

Back to the race at Interlagos, thanks to Edelweiss, it is interesting to see that half of the drivers in that grid managed to win races in F1.

Another curiosity about another Brazilian GP :
From the end of 70's to the beginning of the 90's there was a man here (in Rio de Janeiro) who, in order to promote himself, tried to kiss wellknown people.
In this way, he was permanently in the newspapers, tv etc.
When Frank Sinatra came to Rio to sing in Maracanã stadium, the "kisser" (as he was known) managed to invade the space and kiss the American singer.
This is just an example.
So, when the cars were ready to go for the 1988 Brazilian GP in Rio, the "kisser" invaded the track, with some stewards trying to catch him, and went to kiss Alain Prost, who was in his McLaren in the first line of the grid.
The only mention I saw to this in the international press was in Sport Auto (French) by Jabby Crombac, in his GP report.

Originally posted by WHITE
However, the race at Brands Hatch was stopped at lap 15 due to Siffert fatal accident so it was not a proper race.

Not to take anything away from the tragedy of that day, but I would not agree with you that it was not a proper race. If it had been a championship event it would have qualified for half points.

IIRC though it was a weekend that was dominated by the two BRMs -- in a field more diverse than your Brazilian event -- as they seemed to recover their momentum from Zeltweg and Monza. A race with Gethin seemingly in control over Fittipaldi and Stewart and his teammate looking to be his most likely challenger, as he recovered from a first corner incident. A pity this race gets forgotten since if events had turned out differently it might have helped to prevent Gethin just being remembered for that Monza win. Personally, aside from the loss of Seppi, when I think back to this race, I also recall this last event in their yardley colors as the beginning of the end for BRM. The last race that they were truly still regarded as among the very best.

I personnally prefered and still prefer the Yardley smell/parfum to the Marlboro smoke.
Those BRM were not only competitive but also very elegant.
André Acker.

Originally posted by Andre Acker
I personnally prefered and still prefer the Yardley smell/parfum to the Marlboro smoke.
Those BRM were not only competitive but also very elegant.

Yes but McLaren didn't seem to mind picking up each of these sponsors from BRM when they wanted to move on.

IIRC Yardley were the sweet smelling end of BAT back then during their first foray into F1 -- I guess it was all a case of smoke and bathroom mirrors! I agree though that those Yardley cars were both beautiful and effective.

Originally posted by lofong
Not to take anything away from the tragedy of that day, but I would not agree with you that it was not a proper race. If it had been a championship event it would have qualified for half points.

I mean that it was not a "proper" race from a fan's point of view. It was frustrating to have only 15 laps and, above all, the death of a great racer.
there may be another word to define the race but for a non-english speaker like me, sometimes, it is difficult to find the right words.

Originally posted by Andre Acker
.....Ray,
We had F1 races in Rio de Janeiro in the 40's / 50's in a street circuit, Hans Stück (father) raced here, and other people like Pintacuda.....

Getting to the seat of my question... were the races called the 'Brazilian Grand Prix'?

If so, would it be possible to list them? Whether they were for F1 cars or FLibre or whatever...

Originally posted by Andre Acker
Another curiosity about another Brazilian GP :
From the end of 70's to the beginning of the 90's there was a man here (in Rio de Janeiro) who, in order to promote himself, tried to kiss wellknown people.
In this way, he was permanently in the newspapers, tv etc.
When Frank Sinatra came to Rio to sing in Maracanã stadium, the "kisser" (as he was known) managed to invade the space and kiss the American singer.
This is just an example.
So, when the cars were ready to go for the 1988 Brazilian GP in Rio, the "kisser" invaded the track, with some stewards trying to catch him, and went to kiss Alain Prost, who was in his McLaren in the first line of the grid.
The only mention I saw to this in the international press was in Sport Auto (French) by Jabby Crombac, in his GP report.

Ahhh! I've often wondered who that bloke was. Certainly in recent times any unwanted invaders or protesters are soon known about, their purpose or whatever, but until your post Andre i had no idea on that particular 1988 incident.

He was wearing a black n white striped T-shirt and looked to be middle-aged. When the cameras cut to him he's kneeling on the tarmac and being pulled away by a marshal, and pleading with the official probably not to kick lumps out of him.

Thanks for clearing that little incident up! "The kisser"......oh dear, it takes allsorts i suppose.

Originally posted by Ray Bell


Getting to the seat of my question... were the races called the 'Brazilian Grand Prix'?

If so, would it be possible to list them? Whether they were for F1 cars or FLibre or whatever...

F.Libre and not called Brazilian GP
1952 Boa Vista GP -Fangio Ferrari 54mph
1957 " Fangio Maserati 57.89mph-a slow circuit!
1949 Rio de Janerio GP-Gavea -Villoresi Maserati-51,80mph
1952 " Gonzalez Ferrari 50.50mph
1948 Sao Paulo GP-F.Landi Alfa Romeo-76.4mph
1949- " Villoresi Maserati-
1952 " Interlagos-Fangio-Ferrari-74.51mph

Originally posted by Ray Bell


Getting to the seat of my question... were the races called the 'Brazilian Grand Prix'?

If so, would it be possible to list them? Whether they were for F1 cars or FLibre or whatever...

Hi Ray,

Though I started the thread as " first brazilian GP ", that race was not really a GP. I do not even remember how it was called. It was popularly known as the first f1 race in Brazil.
There had been a race in 1933 called " Rio de Janeiro Prix ", raced in the so called Gavea circuit which was a street circuit being Gavea the name of the neighbourhood where it was. That race was won by driver Manuel de Teffe with an Alfa-Romeo.
21 races took place there until 1954. The italian driver Carlo Pintacuda, mentioned by André, won the Prix in 1937 and 1938. In 1952, J. M. Fangio was one of the entrants for the race and the favorite for the win but it was Froilan Gonzales who finally won the race with a Ferrari at an avorage speed of 90,321 km/hour.
It was a very difficult and dangerous circuit extended for over 11 Km of streets and roads, not always in good conditions, so dangerous that it became known as " the devil's springboard ".
AFAIK, none of these races were called " Brazilian GP " so the first race to be called as such, was the race held at interlagos in 1973.

Nigel Red 5,

Intereting that you remember that, even the shirt detail.
Well, I must say that, to my shame, the shirt he was using was that of Botafogo, one of the most traditional football clubs from Brasil.
In fact, I am a Botafogo supporter, the uniform is identical to Newcastle United FC !
Regards,
André Acker.

Originally posted by WHITE
.....There had been a race in 1933 called " Rio de Janeiro Prix ", raced in the so called Gavea circuit which was a street circuit being Gavea the name of the neighbourhood where it was. That race was won by driver Manuel de Teffe with an Alfa-Romeo.
21 races took place there until 1954. The italian driver Carlo Pintacuda, mentioned by André, won the Prix in 1937 and 1938. In 1952, J. M. Fangio was one of the entrants for the race and the favorite for the win but it was Froilan Gonzales who finally won the race with a Ferrari at an average speed of 90,321 km/hour.....

We need to know more about this kind of race... the earliest ones especially...

.....It was a very difficult and dangerous circuit extended for over 11 Km of streets and roads, not always in good conditions, so dangerous that it became known as " the devil's springboard".....

Oh really? 11kms of town circuit... that must have been the longest such circuit anywhere!

..... AFAIK, none of these races were called " Brazilian GP " so the first race to be called as such, was the race held at interlagos in 1973.

We're not disregarding equivalent names, are we? Like 'Gran Premio' etc?

Originally posted by Ray Bell


We need to know more about this kind of race... the earliest ones especially...



Oh really? 11kms of town circuit... that must have been the longest such circuit anywhere!



We're not disregarding equivalent names, are we? Like 'Gran Premio' etc?

1972 race certainly was'Gran Premio do Brasil'

Originally posted by Ray Bell

We need to know more about this kind of race... the earliest ones especially...

A book by the delightfully-named Alvaro Casal Tatlock - "El automóvil en América del Sur" describes these. IIRC, he also did a precis of the Gavea races in an edition of "Historic Racing" magazine...

Willie

Sounds nice...

Also sounds Spanish or Portugese!

Sorry - should have said - the book is dual-language Spanish/English. I have a copy both of it, and the magazine, somewhere in my, ahem, library (I've not seen either of them in a few years, though!)

I'll see if I can dig them out.

Willie

Rio de Janeiro GP - Circuito da Gávea -


Formula Libre -

1933 - Manuel de Teffé (BR) - Alfa Romeo 6C 1750
1934 - Irineu Correa (BR)- Ford V-8
1935 - Ricardo Carú (ARG) - Fiat V-8
1936 - Vittorio Coppoli (IT) - Bugatti (T-35?)
1937 - Carlo Pintacuda (IT) - Alfa Romeo 8C-35
1938 - Carlo Pintacuda (IT) - Alfa Romeo 308
1941 - Francisco Landi (BR) - Alfa Romeo Tipo B-P 3
1947 - Francisco Landi (BR) - Alfa Romeo 308
1948 - Francisco Landi (BR) - Alfa Romeo 308
1949 - Luigi Villoresi (IT) - Maserati 4CLT
1952 (JAN) - José Froilan González (ARG) - Ferrari 166
1952 (DEC) - Henrique Cassini (BR) - Ferrari 166

Sports Cars -

1954 - Emanuel de Graffenried - Maserati A6 GCS


Ricardo Cunha

Originally posted by Ray Bell


We need to know more about this kind of race... the earliest ones especially...




We're not disregarding equivalent names, are we? Like 'Gran Premio' etc?

Dear Ray,


Here you have a nice brazilian site about those races at the Gavea circuit. It is in portuguese, but there are good photos : http://www.brazilian...omobilismo.html


White.


P.S. "Gran Premio" in spanish
"Grande Prêmio" in portuguese

Oh thank you, White... thank you...

All those Ford V8 hopefuls in that 1936 picture! And what's the white car coming up beside the leaders?

The 1934 picture is worth a thousand words as well! But if somebody would care to translate the sentence "Uma análise mais detalhada da história do automobilismo nos faz crer que na década de 30 o Brasil perdeu uma grande chance de se tornar verdadeiro pólo do automobilismo no hemisfério sul, eventualmente perdendo para a Argentina, e posteriormente, para Austrália e África do Sul. Até o início da década de 30" I'd be even more grateful!

Perhaps a few more thoughts and facts are useful:

For the 1930s the importance of the Rio GP can hardly be overexaggerated - even in the Argentine it was accepted that this was the premier GP-style event in the whole continent of South America.

The outstanding position of the Rio GP at that time stems from a number of factors: Rio was a - if not the - major metropolis in South America. In any case, it was the Brazilian capital. And the Gavéa circuit was really something. Last not least, the race attracted European visitors from several countries - Portugal, Italy, France, Germany.

On the other hand, one should not forget the internal Brazilian rivalry between Rio de Janeiro and Sao Paulo. Paulistas can also claim a share in the National racing heritage: In view of the rivalry it's hardly surprising that on the occasion of the Alfa Romeo team coming to Brazil in 1936 Sao Paulo came up with its own GP - held on July 12 at the Circuito do Jardim America, "a 'T' formed by the Avenida do Brasil, and the Ruas do Chile and do Canada" in downtown Sao Paulo.

The hazards of racing at public streets (remember the horror accident of Hellé Nice!) were possibly a reason there was apparently no Sao Paulo GP in 1937. However, in 1938 the 2° Grande Premio da Cidade de Sao Paulo took place at Pacaembu. That there was no lack of interest in motor racing during the time at Sao Paulo in general was also emphasied by the building of a special race track at the fringes of the town: That's how that great circuit of Interlagos came into existence.

Originally the new track was to be inaugurated on 26 November 1939, but the scheduled race was cancelled after practice. So far I have not been able to find out why - a tropical rainstorm, or problems with the tarmac? In any case, racing at Interlagos started with the 3rd Sao Paulo GP on 12 May 1940.

The 4th Sao Paulo GP was to follow post-war, on 5 January 1947, with the 5th and 6th editions to follow in 1948 (21 March) and 1949 (20 March). There was break then, and the 7th Sao Paulo GP took place only on 13 January 1952. It goes without saying - all these races, of course, at Interlagos.

And so far, all Formule libre races. As it is well known, with the decision in early 1952 to drop F1 in Europe the racing habits also changed in Brazil. There was a swing to sports-car racing, and to Meccanica Nacional competition. The International sports-car race held at Interlagos on 10 January 1954 seems to have been the 8th GP da Cidade de Sao Paulo GP - or was it "only" the Grande Premio IV Centenario da Cidade de Sao Paulo?

During the 1950s, and into the 1960s, the long distance Mil Milhas (from 1956) and the 500 Quilometros (from 1957, first for Formule libre, then monopostos, later sports-cars) became the most important races held at Interlagos. The 500 km race was explicitely modelled after North American 500 experience. And despite that there were also a lot of other races held at Interlagos during these days, the Sao Paulo GP tradition was not taken up after 1954.

And these two Interlagos races became also the most important events in the whole National calendar. After 1954, racing at Gavéa had stopped: it had become too dangerous even for the 1950s. Now the Cariocas raced at Boa Vista or Maracana, but both tracks were hardly comparable to the magnificent Gavéa. The title of GP Rio seems not to have been used again - despite the fact non-Brazilian magazines called the International sports-car races held at the Boa Vista circuit in December 1957 and at the Barra da Tijuca circuit in November 1960 (this track close to the former Gavéa circuit, and the beach, was first in 1958) by that name!

However, in that year of 1960 most right to claim to be THE National event in Brazil seems to have fallen to a different venue. On April 23, the I° Grande Premio Juscelino Kubitschek for Sports and MN cars, named after the President, took place on a rather dull strip of new motorway at Brasilia to celebrate the inauguration of the new capital of Brazil! (BTW, anybody around with detailled info on that race won by Ciro Cayres with his Maserati?)

To finish, a word on sources - watch out for Paulo Scali's rather recently published books on Gavéa and Interlagos, surely the best accounts currently available on the topic!

Ray,
Let me try to translate :
"A more accurate analisys of motor racing history make us believe that in the 30's decade Brasil lost a great opportunnity to become the real (or the most important) pole of motor racing in the South hemisfery, loosing it to Argentina and, after, to Australia and South Africa. Until the beginning of the 30's decade."

The last sentence seems to be not related to the first part of the text, I don't know.

Sorry if I did not write some words properly, my English is not that good !
(As your Portughese, anyway ... Sorry, just a joke !)
Best regards.
André Acker.

Thankyou very much "O Volante" for the nice information from your last post !

Ray, here is another good site with a lot of information about those races from the 30s. There are precise data about grids and classifications about the races mentioned by O Volante and it is in English:
http://www.kolumbus....llman/gp364.htm

There you will find the " grande prêmio cidade de Sao Paulo " and a description of Hellé-Nice's tragic accident that pushed her into giving up racing.
By the way, as far as I remember, this french driver caused such a good impression in Brazil then, that a contraction of her name has been a popular woman's name in the country ever since :
Hellé-Nice = Elenice

White

So the conclusion is that the race wasn't called the Brazilian GP pre-war?

Even if it was the most important race of the year...

Thanks for the information, guys.

Originally posted by Ray Bell
So the conclusion is that the race wasn't called the Brazilian GP pre-war?

Even if it was the most important race of the year...

Thanks for the information, guys.

Not at all Ray !

As a curiosity, we should say that the first oficially car race in Brazil took place at Sao Paulo in 1908. The organization was in charge of the Sao Paulo automobile club being the race held the 26th of july.