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Kentish 100, South Africa 1957?

Started by Terry Walker , Oct 03 2005 02:24

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28 replies to this topic

#1 Terry Walker

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 02:24

I've just been reading some Wanneroo Park race programme notes about Ray Thackwell, and here's the bit that grabbed my attention.

"In 1957 he won the Kentish 100 - then the equivalent of the South African Grand Prix - at the wheel of the first Climax-engined Cooper single seater."

I thought the Kentish 100 was at Brands. This info no doubt came originally from Ray himself, but got muddled in the transition to print. He did race in South Africe, but did he win the precurser to the SA GP?? And what was it?

I searched the BB but either asked the wrong question or it's not there. Google didn't help either. I'm updating some material for a new book on West Aust racing and racers, and just want to get it right. In the past I've tended to believe what I was told by elderly racers, and there's no doubt the past glows ever brighter in the memory of oldies. (You ought to see how my past glows in my own memory...)

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#2 Ray Bell

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 03:17

The only 'Kentish 100' I've ever heard of was at Brands too...

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#3 275 GTB-4

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 05:58

"In 1957 he won the Kentish 100 - then the equivalent of the South African Grand Prix - at the wheel of the first Climax-engined Cooper single seater."
[/B][/QUOTE]

possibly, comma abuse???

"In 1957 he won the Kentish 100, then the equivalent of the South African Grand Prix at the wheel of the first Climax-engined Cooper single seater."
[/B][/QUOTE]

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#4 Terry Walker

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 07:11

Mmmm - fine grammatical point. I think dashes or brackets might be equally acceptable, assuming that the subclause was meant to be in the manner of an explanatory afterthought. But what do I know about grammar? SFA, to be honest.

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#5 Rob29

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 08:00

Unfortunately the 'Kentish100' was first held in 1958,and Thackwell was not entered.
Ray Thackwell 1957 F2 record-Cooper -Climax FWB F2-18-57 (certainly not the first such car)
9 June -Brands Hatch 2 x 10laps-6th & 5th
10 June-Crystal Palace-London Trophy-2 x 10laps-6th & 5th (I was there!)
16 June-Montlhery-Prix de Paris-24laps-DNA
6 July-Mallory Park-2 x 12laps-6th & 5th
14 July-Reims-37laps-retired
5 Aug Brands Hatch-Rochester Trophy-2 x 10laps-5th & spun off-(was there too)
14 Sep-Silverstone-International Trophy-2x15laps + 35lap final-7th & retired(oil pressure)
28 Sep Goodwood-Woodcote Cup-10laps-?
5 Oct -Oulton Park-Gold Cup-DNA

Only South African result I can find is 3rd in 1957 van Riebeeck Trophy.

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#6 Terry Walker

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 08:16

Thackwell and his mate Ronnie Moore took a pair of T41 FWAs, F2-1-57 and F2-2-57, to South Africe, presumably early in '57, and sold them there in due course. Then came back and did F2 in UK in T43s. I don't know if the T41 was the first Cooper to have a Climax, ahem, but if it was, then Thackwell probably did drive the first of the breed. Incidentally, the article implies Thackwell was a Cooper team driver. In the T43s it was Kiwi Equipe.

The UK end is not too difficult to resolve, thanks of course to TFN and also the F2-LeMans site. British racing history is covered in true anorak detail. What's hard is the South African races. Maybe the climate's so warm there is no market for anoraks! They're thin on the ground here in Oz, too; I bought mine in Cumbria.

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#7 David McKinney

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 08:41

As Terry says, Moore and Thackwell raced T41s in South Africa in early 1957, and the T43s referred to by Rob29 later in the year.
The T41s were the first two of the 1957 production, following four cars built in 1956, the first of which could have been described as the first Cooper-Climax single-seater, though there had been plenty of sports Cooper-Climaxes before that.
I don't have any record of Thackwell winning a South African race called the Kentish 100, though there is a Rhodesian race on his schedule for which I have no results.

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#8 Hieronymus

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 08:56

Three "international races" were held in South Africa in 1957, where Ray Thackwell competed in:

Van Riebeeck Trophy, Eersterivier Circuit (23 March 1957)
1820 Settlers' Handicap, Grand Central Circuit (6 April)
Coronation 100, Roy Hesketh Circuit (22 April)

Thackwell's results:

Van Riebeeck Trophy - 3rd
1820 Settlers' Handicap - 6th (2nd on scratch)
Coronation 100 - dnf

Can't see that any of these can be regarded as the equivalent of the SAGP, apart from the fact that it had four or so international drivers competing. Thackwell, Ron Moore, Dick Gibson and Lord Louth. By the way, Ron Moore, won the Van Riebeeck Trophy in 1957, so maybe someone mixed up the facts here.

Thackwell also competed at the National Race Meeting at the Belvedere circuit (Salisbury, Rhodesia) on 14 April 1957. I also do not have the result for this race.

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#9 Hieronymus

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 09:25

SCOOP!!

I pulled out my files on South African races and in the reports of the 1820 Settlers' Handicap, I discovered that a 10 lap scratch race for racing cars up to 1300cc were held prior to the main "international" event of the day. Thackwell won, from Moore and Harry Peirce was third in his MG special. Several non-starters in this event, particularly that of the highly rated Tony Fergusson. Thackwell lead throughout the 10 laps.

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#10 Terry Walker

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 09:28

Wonderful details, Hieronymous and Rob29! I am very grateful indeed. I should have added that Thackwell raced Cooper T39 Climax cars in 2 uk events in 56 - International Gold Gup, Oulton, and Sussex trophy Goodwood. DNF and DNS respectively.

No win in South Africa in 57 then. A 3rd, a 6th (2nd on scratch), and a dnf. And an unknown in Salisbury. (I assume they were all handicap events.) Actually, given that Thackwell was pretty inexperienced at the time, not that bad.

I must look out for a copy of "Sun on the Grid." It would be a whole new world to me.

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#11 Terry Walker

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 09:30

Wow, Hieronymous, your posting pipped me while I was typing. So he did win something after all. I'll press the send button really quick this time, instead of worrying about the typos.

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#12 Ray Bell

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 09:45

I have to say, this is about what I expected...

Obviously a supporting race to a fairly minor event, some withdrawals, a TC Special third. A real career highlight.

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#13 Terry Walker

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 09:54

To be fair, as far as I can tell Ray and Ronnie had only a few months racing experience on four wheels, both being speedway solo riders at the time. Not a bad result really.

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#14 Hieronymus

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 10:07

Here is a picture from CAR (June 1957) that shows Thackwell and Moore in action during the Coronation 100 at Roy Hesketh, Pietermaritzbug.

Terry, if you are interested, I can scan race reports for you on the Thackwell-saga in South Africa.

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#15 Terry Walker

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 10:14

Boy is that a solo speedway racing style. All you need is a steel-soled boot out the side of the car. Thanks very much, Hieronymous, if it's not too much trouble. Among the many things I don't know are. for instance, how old the guys were. Reports might give a clue.

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#16 Terry Walker

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 10:16

Boy is that a solo speedway racing style. All you need is a steel-soled boot out the side of the car. Thanks very much, Hieronymous, if it's not too much trouble. Among the many things I don't know are. for instance, how old the guys were. Reports might give a clue.

I've got to log off now. I'm off to give a talk to the Vintage Sports Car Club tonight; no idea what I'm going to say.

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#17 David McKinney

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 10:28

Moore was 23 at the time, and I think Thackwell was the same age - maybe a year older.
You're right about Thackwell's experience but Moore had been racing cars since 1952, each season in New Zealand, less so in the UK

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#18 Hieronymus

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 10:30

Originally posted by Terry Walker

I must look out for a copy of "Sun on the Grid." It would be a whole new world to me.

Good luck if you can find one! Be prepared to pay a pretty penny, especially for the first edition (circa 1968). Ken Stewart did a fine job, but it has some errors. Only cover some major races. If I can help with anything, pre-1960, do not hesitate to ask. Post 1960, also, but that period in SA, is quite well documented, also from a statistical perspective. Anither great book on the 1960's in SA, is Rob Young's "SPRINGBOK GP".

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#19 Hieronymus

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 10:35

The programme of the race at Belvedere, Salisbury mentions that Thackwell is 23 years old. It also mentions that Moore was World Speedway champ in 1954, at the age of 21. At the time of his Southern African visit he therefore must have been 23/24, as David mentioned.

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#20 275 GTB-4

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 10:41

Originally posted by Terry Walker
Mmmm - fine grammatical point. I think dashes or brackets might be equally acceptable, assuming that the subclause was meant to be in the manner of an explanatory afterthought. But what do I know about grammar? SFA, to be honest.

Terry...you may be write :wave:

I was just trying to point out that the program might be saying he was at Brands and in SA that year :blush:

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#21 ReWind

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 11:03

According to this website Ronnie Moore was born in 1933.

Confirmed by this site.

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#22 David McKinney

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 11:18

Moore was born in March 1933, so possibly turned 24 during the southern Africa sortie

Heiro, if you have the Salisbury programme, what is the name of the feature race? Nothing that could be confused with Kentish 100?
BTW, Sun on the Grid was reprinted perhaps ten years ago - which is how I could afford a copy :lol:

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#23 Rob29

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 11:30

Originally posted by David McKinney

BTW, Sun on the Grid was reprinted perhaps ten years ago - which is how I could afford a copy

So how much IS my 1967 edition worth? 87 shillings in Foyles then. Dust jacket a bit tatty.Maybe I should move it to a more secure place.

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#24 Hieronymus

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 11:47

Originally posted by David McKinney

Heiro, if you have the Salisbury programme, what is the name of the feature race? Nothing that could be confused with Kentish 100?

David

I do not have the faintest idea. What I have is the cover of the race programme, and the entrants list and some photos with short profiles on some of the drivers in the race. The programme cover reads, "The Salisbury Motor Cycle and Light Car Club presents the NATIONAL MOTOR RACE MEETING at the Belvedere Circuit, Salisbury on Sunday, 14 April 1957". I also have no race report from any journal or newspaper on this specific meeting.

My "Sun on the Grid" I bought about 5 years ago for R50 (ABOUT 6,50 Euro) in mint condition - First edition. Before that I had to rely on a public library copy.

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#25 Vitesse2

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 17:19

Well, if you ever find another one at that sort of price, you know where to find me!! In fact I'd even go to six times that price ..... :lol:

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#26 Terry Walker

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Posted 04 October 2005 - 02:32

Sorry GTB 274 .. just re-read your post, and finally grasped the dramatic change a comma (or lack of one) can make. Time to get my PC screen ground to my prescription.

Looking at the Ronnie Moore websites explains to a degree how two young guys had two current F2 Coopers to play with in southern Africa. They were reasonably well heeled, both being very successful professional speedway riders.

My conclusion is that the Thackwell write-up in the race programme I have was, er, more glowing than the reality. Not unusual in race progrmmes.

Thackwell went on to become a successful Porsche punter here in Western Australia in the 1970s, winning two consecutive Six-Hour Races, 1971 and 1972. Wound up his career by winning the 1974 WA Sports Sedan Championship.

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#27 Ray Bell

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Posted 04 October 2005 - 04:24

Terry... he was a big fish in a little pond there in WA...

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#28 Terry Walker

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Posted 04 October 2005 - 05:32

Hi Ray - sure he was.

This is all in the context of my current project, the sequel to Around the Houses, which covers roughly opening of Wanneroo 1969 to date. Same format: encyclopedia, potted biographies, etc. There is some overlap with Houses which ended 1979, and I'm taking the opportunity to revise and update some those entries and lift them across to the new book. I keep finding loose ends and inconsistencies not to mention outright errors.

I gather Thackwell did some touring car racing in NZ in the late 60s early 70s, too.

Oh - I'm finally going to succumb and open my own website, and I'll have a space there for additional pre-1979 material as an on-line supplement to Around the Houses. No dates yet.

In the meantime, TNF has solved the mystery of the Kentish 100 in South Africa...all because I actually read an item in an old race programme and was puzzled.

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#29 Ray Bell

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Posted 04 October 2005 - 05:36

TNF works that way... trust me...

I came on here trying to find out why the Alfa Tipo B had a divided driveline... I never found out why, but I think that's the whole reason anyway!

Gordon should fare well in your new endeavours then?