I was reminded of a detail the other day. John Cooper once told me that when the Cooper team raced abroad, the appearance and prize money was always paid in cash in the local currency. At the time there were restrictions on how much foreign currency could be changed at a British bank, I think the upper limit was £50.
Monday morning after a race, John Cooper, Jack Brabham and Bruce McLaren would traipse from bank to bank in Surbiton and the surrounding area to change the money into sterling. They must have dreaded a 1-2 because that was their day shot.
In 1960, Cooper was World Champion Constructor and Jack and Bruce were first and second in the World Championship. I love the idea of Jean Todt, Michael Schumacher and Rubens Barricello (or Ronzo, Kimi and Juan Pablo, or Flavio, Giancarlo and Fernando) having to do the same.
Imagine one bank teller in Modena saying to another, "I know Michael had a miserable race, but he'd better not get lippy with me. If he does he's going to find that I've run out of banknotes and he's going to have to take it in small change. You try carrying 100.00 coins, that'll slow him down. Now that Rubens, I always have notes for Rubens. Funny, that."
It sounds bizarre , but it was once everyday reality.
Really obscure facts
Started by
Mike Lawrence
, Oct 27 2005 02:02
36 replies to this topic
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#2
Mac Lark
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Posted 27 October 2005 - 03:58
The story Eoin Young tells is that when Jack joined the team, Roy Salvadori and John Cooper would go to the organisers on the Monday after the race to uplift their winnings.
Jack was paid his share by Roy and John. Trouble with this system is that Jack never knew what their share was. Until he was waiting one morning in the hotel lobby - John and Roy arrived downstairs, saw Jack and advised him they were off to collect the prizemoney and would be back soon.
'No need' said Jack, 'I've already been...here's your share..'
I shall have to re-read Doug Nye's book to see if this is mentioned.
Jack was paid his share by Roy and John. Trouble with this system is that Jack never knew what their share was. Until he was waiting one morning in the hotel lobby - John and Roy arrived downstairs, saw Jack and advised him they were off to collect the prizemoney and would be back soon.
'No need' said Jack, 'I've already been...here's your share..'
I shall have to re-read Doug Nye's book to see if this is mentioned.
#3
ray b
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Posted 27 October 2005 - 16:41
in 1960 was there much prize money??
I thought it was mosty starting money paid to show up
with very little or no prize fund
the whole F-1 costs sure were lower with NO ads on cars
tyres and gas funds plus the odd spark plug or whatever deals
and drivers and teams spilting the low pay from the tracks
no TV or end of season funds eathor
I guess the tracks did ok with track side ads plus the gate money and other sales
and no black hole like Burnie to suck up the money
I wonder if coopers total budget was over a 100k a year back then
and how much was leftover at years end if any?
or did car sales support the race team
I thought it was mosty starting money paid to show up
with very little or no prize fund
the whole F-1 costs sure were lower with NO ads on cars
tyres and gas funds plus the odd spark plug or whatever deals
and drivers and teams spilting the low pay from the tracks
no TV or end of season funds eathor
I guess the tracks did ok with track side ads plus the gate money and other sales
and no black hole like Burnie to suck up the money
I wonder if coopers total budget was over a 100k a year back then
and how much was leftover at years end if any?
or did car sales support the race team
#4
HDonaldCapps
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Posted 27 October 2005 - 17:59
A topic that is massively under-represented in the literature of motor racing is the money side of things on either side of the Atlantic, particularly on the eastern shores thereof. It has generally been not only ignored until recent years, but any discussion actively discouraged or disparaged.
Prize monies were awarded at most of the major events on The Continent for the major placings and ranged from miniscule to relatively magnificent. However, as most now realize, the "real" money was in the starting money offered by the clubs. Well, sort of....
Budgets for privateers or small teams ranged the gamut and few spent more in a season than what most teams today would budget for the weekend's catering bill.
Mike points out a rather challenging problem that many racers faced in Europe for decades and that was the restrictions on how much currency could be brought in or taken out of a country. This led to some interesting prize situations, part of winnings being offered in kind rather than in cash is some instances: think of the champagne at Reims.
We haven't even begun to discuss the customs and duties aspects of European racing.....
This is a topic crying out for someone to chronicle it and shed some much needed light in this area.
Prize monies were awarded at most of the major events on The Continent for the major placings and ranged from miniscule to relatively magnificent. However, as most now realize, the "real" money was in the starting money offered by the clubs. Well, sort of....
Budgets for privateers or small teams ranged the gamut and few spent more in a season than what most teams today would budget for the weekend's catering bill.
Mike points out a rather challenging problem that many racers faced in Europe for decades and that was the restrictions on how much currency could be brought in or taken out of a country. This led to some interesting prize situations, part of winnings being offered in kind rather than in cash is some instances: think of the champagne at Reims.
We haven't even begun to discuss the customs and duties aspects of European racing.....
This is a topic crying out for someone to chronicle it and shed some much needed light in this area.
#5
Wolf
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Posted 27 October 2005 - 18:16
And of course, there was also the issue when racing behind iron-curtain (or thereabouts). This is what Roger Clark was kind enough to post about Adriatic GP (F3) :
(edit) P.S. Unlike David, although I don't find it very important, I was always curious about those things- how much money did private entrants get compared to factory teams, how did prize money relate to starting money, &c...
Originally posted by Roger Clark
This is Barry collerson on the 1966 race:
... We were paid our starting money in local currency and, as this money has little value on the exchange rate outside Yugoslavia, we decided to spend as much as possible while we were there. Our starting money, equal to about £45 each, was a small fortune by local standards and we found it difficult to get rid of the filthy stuff – I wish I suffered from this problem more often. We even lived it up by staying in a hotel, which was a change from living, sleeping and eating in the transporter.
(edit) P.S. Unlike David, although I don't find it very important, I was always curious about those things- how much money did private entrants get compared to factory teams, how did prize money relate to starting money, &c...
#6
Cirrus
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Posted 27 October 2005 - 18:53
I remember reading somewhere that the only thing worth buying in Eastern Europe in the Sixties was jerry cans, so that's what the F3 circus did. Apparently, it was not uncommon for a race organiser to do a bunk whilst the race was still in progress, in order to avoid paying starting money. In F3 circles a driver would often "retire" early during a race and head straight for the organisers office to prevent just such an occurance. The other drivers would naturally make sure that their saviour was suitably rewarded!
I also remember reading that a driver in the mid-sixties (Tim Cash?) had a race in Scandinavia one weekend, followed by a race in Sicily the next. Upon arrival at the circuit, after an epic drive, he was told that he had ben banned from racing in Italy for some earlier misdemeanour. Pressure from the other drivers resulted in him receiving the start money that was so essential for their nomadic existance.
Anecdotes from those days would surely fill a library!
ray b, I have no actual figures, but I would estimate that Cooper's total budget was more like 20K than 100K. Bear in mind that a nice family home in Surbiton would probably set you back no more than £2500 in those days.
I also remember reading that a driver in the mid-sixties (Tim Cash?) had a race in Scandinavia one weekend, followed by a race in Sicily the next. Upon arrival at the circuit, after an epic drive, he was told that he had ben banned from racing in Italy for some earlier misdemeanour. Pressure from the other drivers resulted in him receiving the start money that was so essential for their nomadic existance.
Anecdotes from those days would surely fill a library!
ray b, I have no actual figures, but I would estimate that Cooper's total budget was more like 20K than 100K. Bear in mind that a nice family home in Surbiton would probably set you back no more than £2500 in those days.
#7
mctshirt
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Posted 28 October 2005 - 06:10
I'm reading From The Cockpit by Bruce McLaren at the moment and he makes mention of starting money for the 1962 NZ races. While hatching a plan to run a Cooper Monaco with his 2.7 Indianapolis engine (which was to be used in the ex-Tommy Atkins Cooper in NZ) in a couple of American races "I remembered the fantastic prizemoney and the fun of the of the race in California last year. " The downunder season had already cost him "10,000 pounds, which couldn't be recouped for six months-the time it took the race organizers to deliver their starting money by bank draft to England"
#8
Terry Walker
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Posted 28 October 2005 - 07:05
I happen to have the prize money lists for the 1957 Australian Grand Prix, which had international status but had only one internationally recognised driver - Jack Brabham. The rest were Aussies.
22nd Australian Grand prix. A 70 lap formula libre race with concurrent handicap (approx 154 miles).
Outright placings:
1st: Australian pounds 600
2rd: " 300
3rd " 150
4th " 100
5th " 60
6th " 50
7th " 40
8th " 30
9th " 20
10th " 15.
Handicap prize money went to 4th place only:
1st: " 100
2nd: " 50
3rd: " 25
4th: " 10
To put that in some sort of perspective, a new Holden cost about 1,100 pounds then. Today a new Holden Commodore costs nearly $30,000 Aussie.
I have no idea what the starting money was, unfortunately. Undoubtedly negotiated between the Club and entrant. I do know the event practically bankrupted the promoting club.
22nd Australian Grand prix. A 70 lap formula libre race with concurrent handicap (approx 154 miles).
Outright placings:
1st: Australian pounds 600
2rd: " 300
3rd " 150
4th " 100
5th " 60
6th " 50
7th " 40
8th " 30
9th " 20
10th " 15.
Handicap prize money went to 4th place only:
1st: " 100
2nd: " 50
3rd: " 25
4th: " 10
To put that in some sort of perspective, a new Holden cost about 1,100 pounds then. Today a new Holden Commodore costs nearly $30,000 Aussie.
I have no idea what the starting money was, unfortunately. Undoubtedly negotiated between the Club and entrant. I do know the event practically bankrupted the promoting club.
#9
Terry Walker
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Posted 28 October 2005 - 08:48
Back again. I didn't think I had anything on the 1962 Australian Grand Prix prize money / starting money ratio, but I've turned up the proposed prize-start money numbers, if not the actual. This ties in with the McLaren remarks, because McLaren won the 1962 AGP. Sums are in Australian pounds (I can't work out how to find the UK Pound sign, I have the dollar keyboard.)
Proposed starting money: "Two top stars at 2,000 each" (Brabham and McLaren, as it happened)
"4 New Zealand drivers at 250 each" (I don't think we got 4 NZ drivers)
"1 driver from each State as follows: Queensland 175; NSW 150; Tasmania 125; Victoria 125; South Australia 100."
Prize money for the GP was to be 1,000 pounds. That is the total, not for first place.
This was pretty small beer, because it was in the final analysis essentially a regional event, pre-Tasman series. But if CAMS was happy with the prizes etc, it follows that they were in the ballpark. I can't imagine CAMS saying, "okay, five quid for the winner...it'll do."
Proposed starting money: "Two top stars at 2,000 each" (Brabham and McLaren, as it happened)
"4 New Zealand drivers at 250 each" (I don't think we got 4 NZ drivers)
"1 driver from each State as follows: Queensland 175; NSW 150; Tasmania 125; Victoria 125; South Australia 100."
Prize money for the GP was to be 1,000 pounds. That is the total, not for first place.
This was pretty small beer, because it was in the final analysis essentially a regional event, pre-Tasman series. But if CAMS was happy with the prizes etc, it follows that they were in the ballpark. I can't imagine CAMS saying, "okay, five quid for the winner...it'll do."
#10
Mike Lawrence
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Posted 29 October 2005 - 00:15
John Cooper always told me that his budget, 1960, was £10,000, or 20 Minis. I think John was selective with his information because he he thought the tax man never slept. I think Jack Brabham was paid about £10,000 by Esso, and he got other benefits.
Brabham presented himself as Mr Shy, but he had a column in 'Motor Racing' magazine, he was appearing in ads for Rootes Group cars. Jack worked his corner and, incidentally, he hears a lot better when he wants to hear.
Taking into account all the trade money, I'd be surprised if Cooper's budget exceeded £25,000 and I'd be really suprised if Cooper made a loss and had to subsidise the F1 and F2 racing programmes from the sale of racing cars. There was not then the profit there is to be made today, but I recall that John Cooper liked to drive a Rolls-Royce. for the sheer hell of it. Colin Chapman never owned a Royce (only the vulgar call them 'Rollers') and that was important to John whose racing activity stopped about the same time as commercial sponsorship arrived.
One the deals that Jack and Bruce did with Cooper was they could set up their own racing teams and head Down Under each New Year. The cars went on a one-way ticket by boat, Jack and Bruce flew. They got really good appearance money, they enjoyed the high life, as returning heroes, and they sold on their cars at the end of season. I don't think anyone came off badly.
Brabham presented himself as Mr Shy, but he had a column in 'Motor Racing' magazine, he was appearing in ads for Rootes Group cars. Jack worked his corner and, incidentally, he hears a lot better when he wants to hear.
Taking into account all the trade money, I'd be surprised if Cooper's budget exceeded £25,000 and I'd be really suprised if Cooper made a loss and had to subsidise the F1 and F2 racing programmes from the sale of racing cars. There was not then the profit there is to be made today, but I recall that John Cooper liked to drive a Rolls-Royce. for the sheer hell of it. Colin Chapman never owned a Royce (only the vulgar call them 'Rollers') and that was important to John whose racing activity stopped about the same time as commercial sponsorship arrived.
One the deals that Jack and Bruce did with Cooper was they could set up their own racing teams and head Down Under each New Year. The cars went on a one-way ticket by boat, Jack and Bruce flew. They got really good appearance money, they enjoyed the high life, as returning heroes, and they sold on their cars at the end of season. I don't think anyone came off badly.
#11
Catalina Park
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Posted 29 October 2005 - 06:37
Originally posted by Terry Walker
....I can't work out how to find the UK Pound sign, I have the dollar keyboard.
Terry, Hold the "Alt" key and type in 156 on the keypad. Write it on a post it note and stick it on the edge of the montior.
#12
Mike Lawrence
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Posted 29 October 2005 - 07:54
Me again, picking up on some other previous postings. In 1991, I visited Paul Thiel in Eisenach in what had been the former DDR. My German-speaking companion and I had to arrive unannounced because he had no telephone, he had been on the waiting list for a mere 14 years, though he could produce a couple of trays of medals given to him by the Communist regime. He said, "They couldn't give me a phone, but they were very good at handing out medals."
Paul drove EMW sports racers and, later, Wartburgs in international rallies. He said that he converted what local currency he could get abroad into jars of olive oil. Olive oil passed through customs and was worth a fortune in East Germany.
EMWs were supposed to race at Silverstone in 1955, but the French would not allow them to cross France to take a ferry from Calais to Dover.
I believe Alberto Ascari converted local currency into gem stones.
Part of the fall from grace of Sir Bernard Docker in the 1950s was due to currency. Sir Bernard was an immensely wealthy businessman who controlled, among other companies, Daimler (UK), and Daimler entered races and rallies in the 1950s. Sir Bernard and Lady Nora were party animals and Monte Carlo was a favourit haunt, but Brits were then restricted to taking out no more than £25. His yacht had a crew of 42 so he could come to some arrangement.
In 1953, the average wage in Britain was £12.02p per week (the standard of living was roughly that of Mexico today). Twenty five pounds was two weeks wages. Do the maths, then ask yourself how did so many Brits go motor racing in Europe in the early 1950s?
How did they get to race meetings in Britain when petrol was rationed to about 30 miles motoring per week? They were racing drivers, remember, with the staunch moral values that racing drivers have possessed since time immemorial.
See if you can work it out without using the terms 'smuggling' and 'black market'.
Paul drove EMW sports racers and, later, Wartburgs in international rallies. He said that he converted what local currency he could get abroad into jars of olive oil. Olive oil passed through customs and was worth a fortune in East Germany.
EMWs were supposed to race at Silverstone in 1955, but the French would not allow them to cross France to take a ferry from Calais to Dover.
I believe Alberto Ascari converted local currency into gem stones.
Part of the fall from grace of Sir Bernard Docker in the 1950s was due to currency. Sir Bernard was an immensely wealthy businessman who controlled, among other companies, Daimler (UK), and Daimler entered races and rallies in the 1950s. Sir Bernard and Lady Nora were party animals and Monte Carlo was a favourit haunt, but Brits were then restricted to taking out no more than £25. His yacht had a crew of 42 so he could come to some arrangement.
In 1953, the average wage in Britain was £12.02p per week (the standard of living was roughly that of Mexico today). Twenty five pounds was two weeks wages. Do the maths, then ask yourself how did so many Brits go motor racing in Europe in the early 1950s?
How did they get to race meetings in Britain when petrol was rationed to about 30 miles motoring per week? They were racing drivers, remember, with the staunch moral values that racing drivers have possessed since time immemorial.
See if you can work it out without using the terms 'smuggling' and 'black market'.
#13
Milan Fistonic
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Posted 29 October 2005 - 09:45
Prize money at the 1954 New Zealand Grand Prix (or NZ Motor Cup to give its correct title) was as follows.
1st - 1000 pounds
2nd - 500 "
3rd - 250 "
4th - 100 "
5th - 50 "
6th - 25 "
7th - 12 "
There was 20 pounds for each of the five class winners and 10 pounds for the leader on each of the 80 laps.
That's a total of 2837 pounds.
By 1975 the prize money had increased to $14000 split up as follows.
1st - $3500
2nd - $2700
3rd - $1800
4th - $1500
5th - $1250
6th - $1000
7th - $750
8th - $600
9th - $500
10th - $400
1st - 1000 pounds
2nd - 500 "
3rd - 250 "
4th - 100 "
5th - 50 "
6th - 25 "
7th - 12 "
There was 20 pounds for each of the five class winners and 10 pounds for the leader on each of the 80 laps.
That's a total of 2837 pounds.
By 1975 the prize money had increased to $14000 split up as follows.
1st - $3500
2nd - $2700
3rd - $1800
4th - $1500
5th - $1250
6th - $1000
7th - $750
8th - $600
9th - $500
10th - $400
#14
Vicuna
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Posted 29 October 2005 - 10:11
Whereas inflation in NZ over that time was 166.6% (off the top of my head).
Tells you something eh
Tells you something eh
#15
Ray Bell
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Posted 29 October 2005 - 11:04
I'm sure that at some time David McKay put the starting money for International drivers down in one of his columns at £1,000 (thanks Mountain Man) in the early sixties. I'm fairly sure that Geoff Sykes confirmed that was roughly the figure... however...
Stirling Moss got much more and Jack Brabham a bit more.
Stirling Moss got much more and Jack Brabham a bit more.
#16
ray b
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Posted 29 October 2005 - 16:19
Originally posted by Cirrus
ray b, I have no actual figures, but I would estimate that Cooper's total budget was more like 20K than 100K. Bear in mind that a nice family home in Surbiton would probably set you back no more than £2500 in those days.
I was, as an American was guessing in USA$ and your useing british LBS
and others are useing local down under units I guess
btw British LBS= 2.80 in 1960 in USA$ with no idea what Auz or New Zeeland units were worth then
and by total budjet I mean driver + team pay + cars and spares costs + all cost of travel+ fixed plant
so lets break that out in some numbers for 1960
how many cars built for the team effort?
how many non-traveling men working for the team?
how many traveling team members?
then there are fixed multi year of costs for things like trucks and buildings and equipment?
tax, insurance, and other details
our house in Coral Gables Fla a small 2-1 was worth about $20k in 1960
#17
Mike Lawrence
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Posted 29 October 2005 - 17:54
Ray, you have it right, in 1960, one pound sterling changed at US$2.40. I am sure of this because I then lived on a rocket base in Lincolonshire which was 50/50 RAF and USAF. You would see a 1935 Morris Eight parked next to one of the only Edsels in the UK. The base was RAF Hemswell and the ICBMs were Douglas Thors.
As I cycled to work on a farm the Douglas guys drove to the base: you have never seen so many Triumph TR3As outside of a club rally. Next up was the MGA, there was a sprinkling of Austin-Healey 3000s (no Sprites) and Renault Florides. There was one Jaguar XK150 and one Lotus Elite.
RAF Hemswell controlled three Thors on base and another 15 on outlying bases, all equipped with nuclear warheads. If the Russians had attacked, we would have had four minutes warning. The fastest that a Thor was ever readied, it involved liquid oxygen, was 13 minutes. Do the sums.
Up until the late 1960s there were no more than three travelling mechanics at Team Lotus, even when a third car was run for Mario. Other teams differed, but not by much. Ferrari had several mechnics, plotocrats.
Back home, at base, the numbers of employees varied because there was the Build Season, December to March. Quite often someone would race his car during the summer and then earn his basic money by working for a racing car maker during the Build Season. Ozzies and Kiwis were particularly good at this. In the late 1950s, outfits like Arch Motors and Progress Chassis were set up as subcontractors and they would supply spaceframes to the industry, then there came the makers of fibreglass bodies.
Arch Motors was named because it operated under a railway arch. You had a bridge taking a railway line and there were arches. Block off both ends of the arch with corrugated iron, set up a sign and you had a workshop. O happy, happy, days when the term, 'Health and Safety' was Orwellian, as still it is.
It is difficult to transcribe the financial value of one age to another. I put Cooper's budget into how many Minis it could have bought, but had you invested the price of fve Minis in a house in Surbiton (where Cooper was based) in 1960 yoiu would now be looking at 40-60 current Minis even at the inflated price BMW asks for a car which is not actually very good.
Back in 1960, athletes were still supposed to be amateur and there was never, ever, an envelope in the hotel room which contained banknotes. In cricket, Gentlemen (amateurs) walked into Lords through a different entrance to Players (amateurs). Of course, the players were strictly amateur except they got loads of time off at full salary because it was good to have a cricketer on the staff. Footballer were resticted to about £15 a week (plus limited bonuses, plus the envelopes), and this rule, believe it or not, even applied to the royal Academy of Football Art and Science (aka Arsenal FC).
Sir Stirling reckons he earned £32,250 from motor racing in 1961, when he won seven F1 races, the Tourist Trophy plus more than a dozen other major races. He reckons he was well-paid for the time, but then he earned more than the entire first-team squad of both the England football and cricket teams.
As I cycled to work on a farm the Douglas guys drove to the base: you have never seen so many Triumph TR3As outside of a club rally. Next up was the MGA, there was a sprinkling of Austin-Healey 3000s (no Sprites) and Renault Florides. There was one Jaguar XK150 and one Lotus Elite.
RAF Hemswell controlled three Thors on base and another 15 on outlying bases, all equipped with nuclear warheads. If the Russians had attacked, we would have had four minutes warning. The fastest that a Thor was ever readied, it involved liquid oxygen, was 13 minutes. Do the sums.
Up until the late 1960s there were no more than three travelling mechanics at Team Lotus, even when a third car was run for Mario. Other teams differed, but not by much. Ferrari had several mechnics, plotocrats.
Back home, at base, the numbers of employees varied because there was the Build Season, December to March. Quite often someone would race his car during the summer and then earn his basic money by working for a racing car maker during the Build Season. Ozzies and Kiwis were particularly good at this. In the late 1950s, outfits like Arch Motors and Progress Chassis were set up as subcontractors and they would supply spaceframes to the industry, then there came the makers of fibreglass bodies.
Arch Motors was named because it operated under a railway arch. You had a bridge taking a railway line and there were arches. Block off both ends of the arch with corrugated iron, set up a sign and you had a workshop. O happy, happy, days when the term, 'Health and Safety' was Orwellian, as still it is.
It is difficult to transcribe the financial value of one age to another. I put Cooper's budget into how many Minis it could have bought, but had you invested the price of fve Minis in a house in Surbiton (where Cooper was based) in 1960 yoiu would now be looking at 40-60 current Minis even at the inflated price BMW asks for a car which is not actually very good.
Back in 1960, athletes were still supposed to be amateur and there was never, ever, an envelope in the hotel room which contained banknotes. In cricket, Gentlemen (amateurs) walked into Lords through a different entrance to Players (amateurs). Of course, the players were strictly amateur except they got loads of time off at full salary because it was good to have a cricketer on the staff. Footballer were resticted to about £15 a week (plus limited bonuses, plus the envelopes), and this rule, believe it or not, even applied to the royal Academy of Football Art and Science (aka Arsenal FC).
Sir Stirling reckons he earned £32,250 from motor racing in 1961, when he won seven F1 races, the Tourist Trophy plus more than a dozen other major races. He reckons he was well-paid for the time, but then he earned more than the entire first-team squad of both the England football and cricket teams.
#18
Geoff E
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Posted 29 October 2005 - 21:12
Originally posted by Mike Lawrence
Ray, you have it right, in 1960, one pound sterling changed at US$2.40.
It was actually US$2.80 from 1949 until the "pound in your pocket" devaluation of 1967.
#19
Doug Nye
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Posted 29 October 2005 - 23:28
In the late 1940s-early '50s, George Abecassis had a 100-gallon fuel tank installed under the floor of his HWM team's transporter. Before leaving Walton-on-Thames for 'The Continent' one applied to the RAC for Customs triptyques (?spelling????) to cover transporter and the cars it contained. You would also be issued with documentation which proved your tourist status in France, permitting you to purchase fuel there at a concessionary price.
Using the underfloor fuel reservoir, the HWM boys would head straight for Paris and La Madeleine where shady looking geezers in trench coats with the collars turned up and felt hats with the brim turned down would be found patrolling the kerbsides. They were in the market to buy HWM's unwanted tourist fuel vouchers, which the HWM boys would eagerly sell them mainly for cash, but also for watches, nylons, liquor, cigarettes, anything merchandisable. A variation on this trade was for HWM to use the fuel vouchers themselves, and to sell their UK high-octane petrol from the 100-gallon tank to the highest bid the Continental racers might make.
The French, Belgian, Swiss and Italian racing fraternity were also in the market for part-worn racing tyres of any description - which again the HWM boys would dispense in quantity. Still running on their 100-gallon fuel tank, the tour would continue and the heavily laden transporter would rumble home to Walton-on-Thames, some of the space in the invaluable 100-gallon tank undoubtedly carrying the occasional consignment of contraband. It was good business, good competition, and good fun.
DCN
Using the underfloor fuel reservoir, the HWM boys would head straight for Paris and La Madeleine where shady looking geezers in trench coats with the collars turned up and felt hats with the brim turned down would be found patrolling the kerbsides. They were in the market to buy HWM's unwanted tourist fuel vouchers, which the HWM boys would eagerly sell them mainly for cash, but also for watches, nylons, liquor, cigarettes, anything merchandisable. A variation on this trade was for HWM to use the fuel vouchers themselves, and to sell their UK high-octane petrol from the 100-gallon tank to the highest bid the Continental racers might make.
The French, Belgian, Swiss and Italian racing fraternity were also in the market for part-worn racing tyres of any description - which again the HWM boys would dispense in quantity. Still running on their 100-gallon fuel tank, the tour would continue and the heavily laden transporter would rumble home to Walton-on-Thames, some of the space in the invaluable 100-gallon tank undoubtedly carrying the occasional consignment of contraband. It was good business, good competition, and good fun.
DCN
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#20
Gary C
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- 5,571 posts
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Posted 30 October 2005 - 07:47
great stuff, lads. Keep 'em coming!
#21
Mike Lawrence
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- 288 posts
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Posted 30 October 2005 - 11:23
When Colin Chapman built his Austin Special (it became the Lotus Mk I in retrospect) it had two fuel tanks and a gizmo on the fuel line operated by a cable from the cockpit. Fuel was rationed to the private motorist, but people like farmers got adequate supplies, except the petrol was dyed red to prevent it being sold round the back of the barn. All a suspicious copper had to do was to put a stick in fuel tank and a hefty fine could follow.
Chapman poured legit fuel into the overt fuel tank and the 'red' fuel went into the second tank under the scuttle.
Alan Brown got his break into motor racing thanks to the tax payer. The road transport industry was due to be nationalised by the Labour government, but the deal was that existing contractors would be compensated and the compensation included expected future earnings. Alan was a salesman for Dennis Bros., who made trucks. The scam was this: Alan sold trucks to a contractor who knew he was going to be bought by the government. If he bought ten trucks he would not only get his money back, but would receive compensation for expected future profit even if he didn't have drivers for his trucks. The contractor made so much, he bought Alan a 500cc Cooper.
Chapman poured legit fuel into the overt fuel tank and the 'red' fuel went into the second tank under the scuttle.
Alan Brown got his break into motor racing thanks to the tax payer. The road transport industry was due to be nationalised by the Labour government, but the deal was that existing contractors would be compensated and the compensation included expected future earnings. Alan was a salesman for Dennis Bros., who made trucks. The scam was this: Alan sold trucks to a contractor who knew he was going to be bought by the government. If he bought ten trucks he would not only get his money back, but would receive compensation for expected future profit even if he didn't have drivers for his trucks. The contractor made so much, he bought Alan a 500cc Cooper.
#22
Doug Nye
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- 11,535 posts
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Posted 30 October 2005 - 18:42
Originally posted by HDonaldCapps
A topic that is massively under-represented in the literature of motor racing is the money side of things .... This is a topic crying out for someone to chronicle it and shed some much needed light in this area.
The 1969 Frankfurt Agreement for Formula 1 finances: in contemporary Swiss Francs - with conversion data at the foot of the document. Nobody was going to become a multi-millionaire from Formula 1 on this basis...
DCN
#23
Mike Lawrence
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- 288 posts
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Posted 31 October 2005 - 06:17
Then camr Bernie.
#24
Gary Davies
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- 6,460 posts
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Posted 31 October 2005 - 06:41
Originally posted by Mike Lawrence I believe Alberto Ascari converted local currency into gem stones.
Slightly OT, this reminded me of one of dear old Neville Shute's novels, Trustee from the toolroom, first published, I think, in the late 50s. In his story a couple set out to emigrate to Western Canada by way of sailing their yacht via the South Pacific. They had converted their assets to diamonds and encased their 'currency' in a metal box inside the concrete ballast of their boat.
More than once over the years I've wondered whether racing teams had reason to drop by Hatton Garden now and then.
#25
Mike Lawrence
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- 288 posts
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Posted 31 October 2005 - 14:18
Another Alan Brown story. He needed to get to a hillclimb and not even he could find the petrol coupons. He saw a guy selling cheap crockery from a van and sold him the story that there would be around 15,000 people at the hillclimb, all anxious to buy cheap crockery. Alan got his car towed to the hillclimb.
Alan was a wheeler-dealer and every time I visited him he had some dodgy car to sell - it was somethikng he had to do, it was in his nature. I remember the seven-seat Peugoet estate which he was anxious I should buy. I pointed out that I had just arrived in a new hot-hatch and was anyway single. Alan said, "Dear boy, can you be sure that tomorrow you will not meet a rich, beautiful widow with five children?"
Alan was a wheeler-dealer and every time I visited him he had some dodgy car to sell - it was somethikng he had to do, it was in his nature. I remember the seven-seat Peugoet estate which he was anxious I should buy. I pointed out that I had just arrived in a new hot-hatch and was anyway single. Alan said, "Dear boy, can you be sure that tomorrow you will not meet a rich, beautiful widow with five children?"
#26
Doug Nye
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Posted 31 October 2005 - 15:03
- absolutely typical - I can hear him saying it....
#27
ian senior
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- 2,165 posts
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Posted 31 October 2005 - 15:07
Originally posted by Mike Lawrence
Another Alan Brown story. He needed to get to a hillclimb and not even he could find the petrol coupons. He saw a guy selling cheap crockery from a van and sold him the story that there would be around 15,000 people at the hillclimb, all anxious to buy cheap crockery. Alan got his car towed to the hillclimb.
Alan was a wheeler-dealer and every time I visited him he had some dodgy car to sell - it was somethikng he had to do, it was in his nature. I remember the seven-seat Peugoet estate which he was anxious I should buy. I pointed out that I had just arrived in a new hot-hatch and was anyway single. Alan said, "Dear boy, can you be sure that tomorrow you will not meet a rich, beautiful widow with five children?"
ohhh.... people like that still abound in some parts of the motor trade, albeit mostly without Alan's charm. I remember only too well trying to buy a Mini for 'er indoors not long ago, and a salesman trying to convince me that exactly what I needed was a knackered Peugeot 405.
#28
Mike Lawrence
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- 288 posts
- Joined: September 04
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Posted 31 October 2005 - 18:53
Alan had charm. Once he had gone through the process of trying to sell you a car, it was all over in a few minutes, it was the long gin and tonic and a kiss from Anne Brown.
#29
Twin Window
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Posted 31 October 2005 - 19:07
Is this A W 'Monkey' Brown we're talking about here?
#31
Mike Lawrence
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- 288 posts
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Posted 01 November 2005 - 01:38
'Monkey' Brown was a different primate. Trust Haymarket to get it wrong.
#32
Twin Window
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Posted 01 November 2005 - 06:42
Thanks, Tim.Originally posted by Tim Murray
No, he's the subject of this thread:
http://forums.autosp...&threadid=65416
Meaning?Originally posted by Mike Lawrence
Trust Haymarket to get it wrong.
#33
Mike Lawrence
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- 288 posts
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Posted 03 November 2005 - 00:26
I have been trained not to reveal anything to a pseudonym. I have to kill yoiu first, with a single lethal, blow to the thinggy, you know, the thing that gets taken out with a single lethal blow, that bit.
Now, explain your problem. I am sure we will hear.
Now, explain your problem. I am sure we will hear.
#34
Terry Walker
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- 3,005 posts
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Posted 20 November 2005 - 12:32
Digging through a box of rubbish in the garden shed, I turned up a copy of "Australian Motor Sporting Guide", yearbook No 9, for 1963-4, which had an article on F1 finance, no doubt lifted from a UK source. (No author cited, no source - but its frame of reference was clearly UK)
It gave this table for start money: 1st line cars (Cooper, BRM and Lotus) start money £1000 for No 1 car, £900 for No 2 car; 2nd line cars suich as Ferrari and Lola £800 and £700; Third line, such as Brabham and ATS £700 and £600.
It also noted that the race circuit promoters' attendance figures were much overstated in the press, and cited 4,500 as a good paying crowd for an international in UK.,. at £1/10/0 a head.
It goes on a bit about oil company support. Fangio was able to move easily from team to team because he had no personal oil company sponsorship, while Moss was restricted by his oil co sponsorship.
So in the 50s, the teams were sponsored by Big Oil. Then much later by Big Tobacco.
What I specially loved was this tailpiece:
"I have not touched upon all those additional items of income which the race promoters have available such as radio and television, since these do not generally aid the driver or constructor financially."
It gave this table for start money: 1st line cars (Cooper, BRM and Lotus) start money £1000 for No 1 car, £900 for No 2 car; 2nd line cars suich as Ferrari and Lola £800 and £700; Third line, such as Brabham and ATS £700 and £600.
It also noted that the race circuit promoters' attendance figures were much overstated in the press, and cited 4,500 as a good paying crowd for an international in UK.,. at £1/10/0 a head.
It goes on a bit about oil company support. Fangio was able to move easily from team to team because he had no personal oil company sponsorship, while Moss was restricted by his oil co sponsorship.
So in the 50s, the teams were sponsored by Big Oil. Then much later by Big Tobacco.
What I specially loved was this tailpiece:
"I have not touched upon all those additional items of income which the race promoters have available such as radio and television, since these do not generally aid the driver or constructor financially."
#35
Twin Window
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Posted 20 November 2005 - 18:00
You said "Trust Haymarket to get it wrong" and I asked you what you meant by that comment.Originally posted by Mike Lawrence
Now, explain your problem.
#36
ensign14
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- 62,012 posts
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Posted 20 November 2005 - 18:34
Losing the Autocourse titles to some chap whose name escapes me for the moment?
#37
mctshirt
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- 183 posts
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Posted 02 December 2005 - 17:49
Originally posted by Ray Bell
I'm sure that at some time David McKay put the starting money for International drivers down in one of his columns at £1,000 (thanks Mountain Man) in the early sixties. I'm fairly sure that Geoff Sykes confirmed that was roughly the figure... however...
Stirling Moss got much more and Jack Brabham a bit more.
Peter Greenslade in the February 1960 Sports Digest wrote:
"Moss came to Ardmore to win, even though what the New Zealand Grand Prix organisation gave him to start would provide a young married couple with a smallish modern bungalow."
Prize money for the 1960 NZGP is listed as: First Prize 1000 pounds & NZ Motor Cup; Second Prize 500 pounds & Lewis Eady Challenge Cup; Third Prize 300 pounds & Indianapolis Trophy.
