In a recent post I made the statement that "nothing is new".
For example, the "car type suspension" used on some BMW motorcycles can be seen in minature on 1910ish Douglas motorcycles. The cooling chimneys wich are fashionable in F1 at present, were first by Shadow, monocoque chassis, Lotus 25, or Voisin many years before. Williams CVT transmission, Brabham/DAF F3, it seems that there is quite a list of things, touted as new, that have been done before. I mean Parry Thomas invented the self locking nut, but had to use cork, so once oily, it didn't lock so well, so it may be the genius that thought of something was ahead of the technology around him. I believe that the rose joint was suggested by de Vinci! Racing is said to be the cutting edge, so how many new things, have actually been done before?
Nothing new under the sun
Started by
f1steveuk
, Oct 30 2005 15:32
9 replies to this topic
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#2
Wolf
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Posted 30 October 2005 - 15:39
You mean examples like wings ('68 Brabham, Ferrari & Lotus) vs. Michael May's 1956 Porsche on Nürburgring 1000km? Lotus' & Cosworth's stressed engine vs. previous year's H16 engine (which was stressed IIRC in both B.R.M and Lotus 43) and even 1954 Lancia D.50? 'Rear engined revolution' of 1959 vs. 1922 (IIRC) Benz Tropfenwagen?
#3
f1steveuk
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Posted 30 October 2005 - 15:48
that's the sort of thing!
The D50 had the engine as a semi stressed member didn't it?
And I was thinking Auto Union, forgot the oddball Benz!
Like composite materials.
There was a Spitfire built that used a composite to panel the airframe instead of alloy panels. I think it was a fabric, coated and baked, but my books are in France, but it was before the end of the war.
The D50 had the engine as a semi stressed member didn't it?
And I was thinking Auto Union, forgot the oddball Benz!
Like composite materials.
There was a Spitfire built that used a composite to panel the airframe instead of alloy panels. I think it was a fabric, coated and baked, but my books are in France, but it was before the end of the war.
#4
f1steveuk
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Posted 30 October 2005 - 15:56
Then I lied and had the book I needed!! 2 fuselages were commissioned using a material called "Aerolite" they were never flown, but were built in fear of a dire shortage of aluminium, which failed to materialise.
#5
Wolf
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Posted 30 October 2005 - 16:01
Someone more knowledgeable than me might answer about D.50, but I think it had frame that didn't extend past cockpit, and that the small frame around the engine was added by Ferrari when he took over the cars (and I think the biggest advantage gained was easier servicing of the engine)...
Of course, Mercedes used direct gasoline injection on M196, but to be honest it didn't posses the versatility of system implemented in Audi R8 (Mercedes used it merely to inject the fuel, while R8 AFAIK could shift the fuel injection timing so the engine can work as either Otto or Diesel engine).
Of course, Mercedes used direct gasoline injection on M196, but to be honest it didn't posses the versatility of system implemented in Audi R8 (Mercedes used it merely to inject the fuel, while R8 AFAIK could shift the fuel injection timing so the engine can work as either Otto or Diesel engine).
#6
Wolf
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Posted 30 October 2005 - 16:04
Oh, I just remembered- '61 Ferrari 'Sharknose' was tested (at Rouen, IIRC) and practiced with with proper airbox by Ginther, as modern F1 cars use it (if it's of any use we could also post pictures- there is photo of '56 Porsche on 8W, and several pics of airbox were posted in here).
#7
RTH
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Posted 30 October 2005 - 17:37
In very recent years the R&D departments of the big road car makers are far more cutting edge than anything happening in racing , mainly because at long last they are focused on 'useful' evolution of electronics, fuel efficiency and application of alternative materials, manufacturing process and the future which as far in to the future we can see will be the hydrogen fuel cell generating electricity to drive electric motors, M-B, BMW, GM, & Ford are well down the road with this - and we don't even know where Honda and Toyota are with this work !
#8
f1steveuk
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Posted 30 October 2005 - 17:53
Your right Richard. The days of "yesterday the track, tomorrow the road are a long way off". How many road cars have carbon discs? (one I think)
Again thinking of Parry Thomas, his bus transmission system has still yet to be beaten.
I have a friend whose job it is to visit the patents offices of the world looking for ideas that could be adapted for today's technology and materials, with the view to buying them as the patent lapses. Japanese comapny too!!
Again thinking of Parry Thomas, his bus transmission system has still yet to be beaten.
I have a friend whose job it is to visit the patents offices of the world looking for ideas that could be adapted for today's technology and materials, with the view to buying them as the patent lapses. Japanese comapny too!!
#9
Wolf
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Posted 31 October 2005 - 12:58
Well, I'm following up on my propsition for posting pics:
Ferrari airbox (posted by Reyna) :
Picture of Porsche with wing (located on 8W) :
http://8w.forix.com/may/mm-ring56.jpg (the whole article: http://8w.forix.com/may.html )
Ferrari airbox (posted by Reyna) :
Picture of Porsche with wing (located on 8W) :
http://8w.forix.com/may/mm-ring56.jpg (the whole article: http://8w.forix.com/may.html )
#10
f1steveuk
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Posted 31 October 2005 - 13:10
Very interesting. Makes you wonder, if McLaren had just gone ahead a fitted wings, if Ferrari used this airbox, what would we be looking at now on track
