Javascript Disabled Detected

You currently have javascript disabled. Several functions may not work. Please re-enable javascript to access full functionality.

BMW 320 Group 5

Started by ianbeckett21 , Oct 30 2005 16:18

Please log in to reply

24 replies to this topic

#1 ianbeckett21

Member

49 posts
Joined: December 04

Posted 30 October 2005 - 16:18

I am at present attempting to unravel the mysteries of the BMW E21 group 5 race cars which ran in the Deutsche Rennsport Meisterschaft(DRM) from 1977 to 1982. During that period they had many owners and colour schemes which means it is like ''knitting fog'' to try to establish the genuine providence of a particular chassis! Having seen the efficiency of you all out there to help with similar requests, can any of you share even the smallest snippet and even better photographs of these cars? Many thanks in advance.

Back to top

#2 Michael Oliver

Member

1,070 posts
Joined: January 03

Posted 30 October 2005 - 21:32

Originally posted by ianbeckett21
I am at present attempting to unravel the mysteries of the BMW E21 group 5 race cars which ran in the Deutsche Rennsport Meisterschaft(DRM) from 1977 to 1982. During that period they had many owners and colour schemes which means it is like ''knitting fog'' to try to establish the genuine providence of a particular chassis! Having seen the efficiency of you all out there to help with similar requests, can any of you share even the smallest snippet and even better photographs of these cars? Many thanks in advance.

Hi Ian

Try this website, which has SEVEN galleries of photos from the DRM!

http://www.lisa-raci..._galerie_1.html

Good luck, looks like there are plenty of 320s there!

Cheers

Michael

Back to top

#3 Bonde

Member

1,072 posts
Joined: December 04

Posted 30 October 2005 - 23:15

Dunno why, but those late seventies DRM Group 5 cars were the only touring cars that ever really got me excited :cool:

. The memory of the sight and sound of Mad Ronald in what I believe was his last race on Swedish soil in the F2-engined 320 still lingers... :cry:

Back to top

#4 Rainer Nyberg

Member

1,768 posts
Joined: October 00

Posted 30 October 2005 - 23:40

Not much of a colour scheme on this car...but the picture shows the aggressive lines of the Group 5 BMW 320.

Posted Image

Pre-season testing at Paul Ricard, early in 1977.

Back to top

#5 petefenelon

Member

4,815 posts
Joined: August 02

Posted 31 October 2005 - 00:39

Originally posted by Michael Oliver

Hi Ian

Try this website, which has SEVEN galleries of photos from the DRM!

http://www.lisa-raci..._galerie_1.html

Good luck, looks like there are plenty of 320s there!

Cheers

Michael

Fantastic site, not the biggest pics or flashiest technology but bags of atmosphere, thanks for the link. I do love this Porsche about to take flight...

Back to top

#6 ianbeckett21

Member

49 posts
Joined: December 04

Posted 31 October 2005 - 14:40

I have seen the Lisa Racing site and as you mention,it has some wonderful photos. For the past year it appears to have become defunct with no new additions and no new responses on their forum. Until 18 months ago there was also a wonderful French site on Wanadoo which also appears to no longer exist. I suppose what I am hoping for is that you good folks have some treasures hidden away and this may jog your memories. Thanks.

Back to top

#7 Nordic1

Member

66 posts
Joined: August 04

Posted 01 November 2005 - 10:35

Picture I took of a 320 at the Brands 6 hour in 1979 driven by Jacques Berenger/Charles Geeraerts.

BMW 320i Jacques Berenger/Charles Geeraerts

Another taken at the Silverstone 1000ks in 1981.

Winther/Jensen BMW 320

I don't think the 320's raced in the UK very much?

(Sorry about the quality, but I was quite young when I took them and in the case of the brands shot was using a 110 instant sized film camera.)

Back to top

#8 ianbeckett21

Member

49 posts
Joined: December 04

Posted 01 November 2005 - 10:54

Dear Nordic, thanks for showing your two photos, I had seen them before along with your M1 pics. I am actually building a model of the Castrol backed car and your photo has highlighted a couple of errors on the decal makers instruction sheet so thanks for that! You are correct in saying that the 320's did not appear all that much in the UK, only really appearing at the Silverstone and Brands WSC races from 1977 to1982. Thanks once again.... Ian.

Back to top

#9 ianbeckett21

Member

49 posts
Joined: December 04

Posted 02 November 2005 - 22:12

Come on Guys! You can do better than this!! My debut on the site and so little feedback. Is there really so little interest in these wonderful cars? I have been amazed at what you have unearthed on some subjects, get those thinking caps on!! Thanks again...Ian.

Back to top

#10 Carlos Guerra

Member

90 posts
Joined: June 02

Posted 03 November 2005 - 22:03

Originally posted by ianbeckett21
Come on Guys! You can do better than this!! My debut on the site and so little feedback. Is there really so little interest in these wonderful cars? I have been amazed at what you have unearthed on some subjects, get those thinking caps on!! Thanks again...Ian.

Yes Ian, you are so right!
Let's start the ball rolling. 1977 cars:

DRM Race#, Driver, Team, Livery

#4, Jörg Obermoser, GS Tuning, Warsteiner, also driven by Rupert Keegan.
#8, Peter Schneeberger, Heidegger, Fruit of the Loom.
#11, Eddie Cheever, BMW Junior Team, also driven by Hans-Joachim Stuck as BMW Gentleman Team entry.
#12, Marc Surer, BMW Junior Team, also driven by Ronnie Peterson as BMW Gentleman Team entry.
#13, Manfred Winkelhock, BMW Junior Team, Würth, also driven by David Hobbs as BMW Gentleman Team entry.
#14, Harald Grohs, Faltz, Jägermeister.
#15, Hans-Joachim Stuck, Faltz.
#18, Andreas Schall, Liqui Moly, 1.4-litre 320 turbo.
#19, Karl-Heinz Becker, Auto Becker.
#20, Reinhold Hohmann, HAT, Würth, also driven by Rudolf Dötsch.
#21, Mario Ketterer, HAT, also driven by Ronnie Peterson.
#22, Dieter Quester, HAT.
Raced in the US: Ronnie Peterson, McLaren, also driven by David Hobbs, 2-litre 320 turbo.

Comments, additions, corrections, serial numbers, bills of sale, customs ATA carnets, phone numbers, anyone?...

Regards

Carlos Guerra
Cascais
Portugal

Back to top

#11 Mallory Dan

Member

3,121 posts
Joined: September 03

Posted 04 November 2005 - 13:30

Sorry fellas, but Group 5 never did it for me. I always thought it was c--p formula, from the start. Who wants to watch a bunch of 911s, with the odd BMW/Lancia. The longer the World series lasted, the more boring it got. I'd much sooner have seen a grid of Modsports, at least there was more variety. Or even better, the fullish fields of Supersaloons we used to get at the same time G5 was supposedly in its heyday.

Sportscar racing was only rescued when the powers that be started letting 'real' Sportsracers in with the G5s, as a prelude to Group C.

Back to top

#12 ianbeckett21

Member

49 posts
Joined: December 04

Posted 04 November 2005 - 14:48

Dear Carlos, thanks for taking the trouble to reply. The year you have written about was the easy year because it was the first that the 320 had raced in Group 5 form. As with most forms of racing,over the winter, new cars were built, cars were modified and also changed hands with new colours and sponsor deals ready for 1978. As with the later M3/E30, which was raced in much bigger numbers, certain cars came to be seen as more interesting or valuable because of their race pedigree. In the case of the 320, it was the 1977 Junior team cars of Surer, Cheever and Winkelhock which became sought after and today are much copied in their attractive factory colours. As a result original cars have lost their true identities and have been recreated as replicas. This is partly where trying to trace their histories becomes very tricky, some cars today have numerous layers of paint reflecting their busy lives. Couple this to the fact that their racing heyday is now over 20 years ago and the difficulty becomes even greater. I am finding that the internet is both a help and a hindrance in that you can find lots of otherwise unknown information but how much of it is genuine has to be taken with a pinch of salt. Even the memories of some of the cars team owners and drivers have long forgotten many of the minor details which today may be helpful. I am also finding that some of the race reports from the time contained inaccuracies which adds another degree of complexity. Having followed these cars for such a long time makes me even more determined to eventually get the full picture. For my sins, I have also followed the histories of the CSL, 635, M3, M1 and the 320 supertourers plus the equally wonderful Porsche 935. I really should get out more as my dear wife would agree!! Hopefully over time, some of you out there will be able to help? All for now Ian.

Back to top

#13 Bonde

Member

1,072 posts
Joined: December 04

Posted 04 November 2005 - 22:53

Mallory Dan,

Come to think of it, I only ever watched Group 5 cars in action in Super Saloon races, or Special Saloon Cars as they are called in Scandinavia. I'll grant you anytime that most 'Sooperloons' were the most exciting 'touring cars' to experience on track or in the paddock, and that in the WC Group 5 was a mistake - the group 5 cars got more 'tasty' to me when they became 'Sooperloons', along with Porsche-powered Beetles, 200hp Simca 1000s and whatnot. Good variety, good fun. And always lots of bits of car mechanicals to be retrieved between heats and an almost guaranteed oil slick track for whover were on the race meeting schedule after the Special Saloon Cars - at least in Scandinavia. Occasionally the organisers did learn and put the Special Saloons last - or at least after the main feature race...

Back to top

#14 ianbeckett21

Member

49 posts
Joined: December 04

Posted 01 December 2005 - 19:42

Can anyone help to identify the following BMW's? 1)1982 Macau Guia race #8 white with darker stripesand 'Chinese' lettering. Sponsored by Carrier amongst others. The car is one of the lowline vesions built in 1979 by Schnitzer for the DRM in Germany and which had won the race in 1981 in the hands of Manfred Winkelhock sponsored by Viceroy cigarettes. 2)At the same race,another white(?)car backed by Anglo Eastern and possibly driven byAdrian Fu? These may in fact be the same car? 3)A red with white air dam car running possibly in Thailand or maybe Malaysia. I only have two tiny pictures from the internet on these cars with no other information! Thanks Ian Beckett.

Back to top

#15 ianbeckett21

Member

49 posts
Joined: December 04

Posted 22 December 2005 - 19:01

I have just seen a new thread looking for information on the activities of Frank Gardner and Allan Grice regarding their involvement in the Corvair Supersaloon. As a BMW fan,does anyone have anything about their 320 activity as well as the JPS car used by Roberto Ravaglia in the Far East? Happy Christmas to everyone! Ian.

Back to top

#16 MalcolmC

Member

868 posts
Joined: December 05

Posted 22 December 2005 - 19:53

There's was a book published about 20 years ago called 'The Jim Richards Story' by B Naismith that contains a chapter on the Frank Gardner run JPS BMW 318 Turbo. Jim Richards replaced Allan Grice at the team. The book also has a lot on BMW 635 racing (including a season, 1984, with the 24valve motor) but predates the teams upgrade to the M3 in '87.

As an aside there's a 320 Turbo for sale here in NZ.
http://www.bmw.net.n...l/320turbo.html

Back to top

#17 cavvy

Member

171 posts
Joined: December 04

Posted 31 December 2005 - 10:35

Ian,
www.autopics.com.au have photos of the BWW in JPS colours - contact them to see what else they have. :wave:

Back to top

#18 ianbeckett21

Member

49 posts
Joined: December 04

Posted 31 December 2005 - 15:13

Thanks Cavvy.I have tried it but the pictures are small and do not have clear definition. I am about to start building a model of the Richards/Longhurst 320 sponsored by JPS which raced in the 1984 Sandown Park race. Does anyone have pictures of it or know of anywhere that I could try to get help? Thanks in advance and a Happy New Year to everyone. Ian.

Back to top

#19 cavvy

Member

171 posts
Joined: December 04

Posted 01 January 2006 - 02:24

Quoting the 1984/85 Australian Motor Racing Yearbook:
Frank Gardner cobbled up an old JPS sports sedan show car for the WEC race, this time fitted with a 300 bhp normally-aspirated four valve 2.0 litre F2 engine for Jim Richards & Tony Longhurst. The black car qualified 22nd.

There is one photo of the car but the colour makes panel shape indistinguishable. I think the rear guards of the 320 Turbo had been done away with by this time - I will continue to search.

Back to top

#20 km1164

Member

82 posts
Joined: January 03

Posted 16 February 2008 - 08:43

I have just found this thread and see there is little in the way of additions since 06
over on ten tenfs site we also have had discussions
there is 1 car in south america being restored
i have 1 car to restore
and Mallory Dan to say Gp 5 was crepe-shame on you

anymore info to be added?

Back to top

#21 Phigr7

Member

110 posts
Joined: February 06

Posted 16 February 2008 - 08:57

Back to top

#22 Alan Cox

Member

8,397 posts
Joined: March 03

Posted 16 February 2008 - 20:24

Not from the DRM, but from the Silverstone 6 hours of 1978.

Posted Image

BMW Italia car of Giorgio Francia/Umberto Grano, and the works car of Peterson/Stuck

Posted Image

Tne Swiss car of Freddy Kottulinsky and Holz Markus (not sure how Freddy qualified as Swiss)

Back to top

#23 Jesper O. Hansen

Member

582 posts
Joined: January 03

Posted 16 February 2008 - 23:35

It's Markus Hotz to my sources (Wimpfens TaTS)

Jesper

Back to top

#24 fines

Member

9,647 posts
Joined: September 00

Posted 17 February 2008 - 10:14

Yes, surely Markus Hotz, head of HoRAG!;) And about ole' Freddy, he always managed to confuse people about him being German or Swedish, so why not Swiss? Just lop one of the "d"s of his first name, and prego! :lol: