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The one and only

Started by f1steveuk , Nov 14 2005 18:31

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#1 f1steveuk

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 18:31

I'm interested to see if my brain is working correctly. I was challenged to name ten F1 cars where only one chassis was built, and raced (in a race with other F1 cars at least). McLaren M30, Brabham BT34, Chevron B42 (?) Ferguson etc etc

So how many, did I get them all (I think anyone running a website about old racing cars should go last!!!)

#2 Gary C

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 18:41

the Connew, Austria 1972 (sorry, Barry, beat you to it!!)

#3 philippe7

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 19:02

1/ Matra MS120D, if only Chris hadn't punctured....well....

2/ Matra MS84 ( I think it's the only one of the 1969 batch of single 4WD cars that actually got to run, albeit with disconnected front wheel drive, in a Grand Prix - Mexico, Servoz-Gavin ? ) and yes, I'm aware of the Lotus 63 (?) but weren't two of those built ?

#4 f1steveuk

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 19:03

Originally posted by Gary C
the Connew, Austria 1972 (sorry, Barry, beat you to it!!)

But there were two Connew chassis' weren't there??!!!!!!

#5 Gary C

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 19:14

erm.....................................where is Barry, just when you need him most ??

#6 f1steveuk

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 19:28

It may be a technicality, but I am sure there were two tubs made, but maybe one wasn't capable of being raced, definitely one for Barry on the Connew front!

Conversions don't count either, nor does the Goral Tecno as it only practised (I think), it has to have raced, well that's the criteria I had to go by, and drink beer at the ame time!

#7 Twin Window

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 19:31

Politoys FX3.

I know, I know...!

#8 Stephen W

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 19:33

Originally posted by philippe7
1/ Matra MS120D, if only Chris hadn't punctured....well....

2/ Matra MS84 ( I think it's the only one of the 1969 batch of single 4WD cars that actually got to run, albeit with disconnected front wheel drive, in a Grand Prix - Mexico, Servoz-Gavin ? ) and yes, I'm aware of the Lotus 63 (?) but weren't two of those built ?

FWIW The MS84 was not the only 4wd 1969 chassis to run, the Lotus 63 and the McLaren M9A both succeeded in getting on track.

Whilst on the subject, the McLaren M9A was of course a one-off. As was the McLaren M7C.

:cool:

#9 MCS

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 19:44

I think there were quite a few in the early to mid-seventies weren't there?

I'm thinking Lyncar 006and the Token RJ02. And surely some of the Wolfs (Wolves?) WR4, etc. were one-offs...

#10 Wolf

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 20:05

Is Alf Francis' Alta-Cooper one of the nominees (or was it F2? I'm terrible with remembering dates)? Same goes for some of Eigenbau-BMWs raced on the 'Ring in early fifties... And to conclude with a wild guess, since I know very little on the subject- Emeryson in '61?

#11 philippe7

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 20:12

Originally posted by MCS
I think there were quite a few in the early to mid-seventies weren't there?

I'm thinking Lyncar 006and the Token RJ02.

Yes, of course, and the Trojan T103 of the same time (1974 ? )

#12 philippe7

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 20:17

Originally posted by Stephen W

FWIW The MS84 was not the only 4wd 1969 chassis to run, the Lotus 63 and the McLaren M9A both succeeded in getting on track.

I had forgotten about Derek Bell's Silverstone start in the M9A :blush:

....BUT , as I had said ( and having now checked on ORC.com ;) ) the Lotus 63 does NOT qualify, since two of those were built .

#13 f1steveuk

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 20:18

you see, I went for the obvious didn't I? Amon etc, now I think I should have made the bet for 20 or 30!!

#14 philippe7

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 20:19

Originally posted by Twin Window
Politoys FX3.I know, I know...!

....you know, you know....what ? that it became Iso-Marlboro FX1 or something?

#15 Rob Ryder

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 20:20

LEC CRP1
Bellasi F1/F1-1-70

#16 f1steveuk

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 20:22

Originally posted by Rob Ryder
LEC CRP1
Bellasi F1/F1-1-70

No no, it was the Lec that started the discussion, and then the bet! Two built, both now in Donnington, one much much shorter than the other!

#17 Rob Ryder

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 20:30

Originally posted by philippe7

....you know, you know....what ? that it became Iso-Marlboro FX1 or something?

Two chassis in my way of thinking....

FX3 to FX3B/01 to IR-01
---- to FX3B/02 to IR-02

Rob

#18 Rob Ryder

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 20:35

Originally posted by f1steveuk
No no, it was the Lec that started the discussion, and then the bet! Two built, both now in Donnington, one much much shorter than the other!

Oops

chassis 2 in the AFX :blush:

#19 Twin Window

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 20:38

Originally posted by philippe7

....you know, you know....what ? that it became Iso-Marlboro FX1 or something?

Yep; that old coconut.

Originally posted by f1steveuk

Two built, both now in Donnington...

Oh, pleeease... :rolleyes:

#20 f1steveuk

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 20:42

Originally posted by Twin Window
Oh, pleeease...

What did I say??

#21 David Beard

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 21:04

Originally posted by f1steveuk

What did I say??

Try Donnnnington?
;)

#22 f1steveuk

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 21:09

you can never have to many ns!! I use as many as I cann, there free!

I have said this all along, just because I write books doesn't mean to say I can write, I suffer terminal "fat finger syndrome"

#23 Twin Window

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 21:20

Originally posted by f1steveuk

...just because I write books doesn't mean to say I can write...

Originally posted by f1steveuk

I use as many as I cann, there free!

Point proven...

;)

#24 f1steveuk

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 21:36

I was going to put at least three ns in along and maybe a couple of extra ts somewhere. Curse these writers fingers!!

Anyway not forgiven you for having a Stratos helemt, next you'll tell me you have a Jebs as well!

#25 Roger Clark

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 23:25

You could get quite a good grid from 1966/67: the Brabham BT19, the Ferrari 246, the Honda RA300, the BRM 115, the Shannon, the Cooper Ferrari, the BRP-Godiva, the Cooper 86, the McLaren M4B and M5A and the Matra MS9. That's your ten, plus one.

#26 bill moffat

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 23:42

Following on from the Politoys/Iso theme perhaps there is potential here for a "reborn" Grand Prix car thread, in which case Token > Safir would be one of quite a few other examples..

#27 Rob G

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Posted 15 November 2005 - 02:39

A more recent example was the Arrows A9.

Would Tyrrells 001, 002, 003, 004 and 005 count as five separate models? There were three 006s!

#28 Zawed

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Posted 15 November 2005 - 06:33

Originally posted by Rob G
A more recent example was the Arrows A9.

I knew there was an Arrows one off. When I read this thread earlier, I thought I would hold off posting till I could check my facts, but Rob beat me to it.

#29 Peter Morley

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Posted 15 November 2005 - 10:10

Originally posted by Roger Clark
You could get quite a good grid from 1966/67: the Brabham BT19, the Ferrari 246, the Honda RA300, the BRM 115, the Shannon, the Cooper Ferrari, the BRP-Godiva, the Cooper 86, the McLaren M4B and M5A and the Matra MS9. That's your ten, plus one.

They actually built 2 Shannon chassis - one in steel and another in aluminium which was never finished (because the petrol sponsorship never arrived and they dropped the project)..................... does that exclude it or not??

Wasn't the BRP one of two or three 1.5 litre chassis, modified to take the bigger engine?

What about the Pearce cars - the Cooper Ferrari or Paul Emery's Cooper with the Connaught pre-selector transaxle and engine.
Both had chassis that might have been used by others but they probably had to be stretched to take the engines (& in Emery's case huge gearbox), would that make them unique?

What about Kauhsen & Trojan?
Just realised I'm actually just going through the list of projects I've considered in the past!!

#30 Stephen W

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Posted 15 November 2005 - 10:41

Do these qualify?

AGS JH21C
AJB V8
Alfa Romeo 177
Alpine A500 (never raced)
Amon AF101
Arrows A9
Bellasi DFV
Brabham BT22 Climax
Brabham BT34 DFV
Brabham BT39 Weslake V12 (never raced)
BRM P230 V12

I'll get round to C and D later!
:lol:

#31 petefenelon

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Posted 15 November 2005 - 10:50

Originally posted by Stephen W
Do these qualify?

AGS JH21C
AJB V8
Alfa Romeo 177
Alpine A500 (never raced)
Amon AF101
Arrows A9
Bellasi DFV
Brabham BT22 Climax
Brabham BT34 DFV
Brabham BT39 Weslake V12 (never raced)
BRM P230 V12

I'll get round to C and D later!

We're almost heading into the "F1 Entries That Never Made It" thread now - an old favourite of mine ;)

#32 CSGPR

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Posted 15 November 2005 - 11:28

Hi

The Fittipaldi F9.
And the Lotus 56B. Four Lotus 56 was produced but only one converted to "B" specification.
The McLaren M5.

#33 simonlewisbooks

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Posted 15 November 2005 - 11:36

I was going to add the 1979 Rebaque but
a) I don't recall it turning a wheel let alone racing
b) was it really a rebadged Lotus 79 chassis?

How about -

Art Merzario's creations from 78-79 which seemed to all be different (although i recall one was a Kauhsen reworked)

The Martini (suspect more than one of those existed)

Then there was the dreadful Dywa that appeared at Monza for the Aurora AFX race in 79 or 80 but I suspect that didn't race either. Nor did the Lola that McNish tested a year or two prior to the Mastercard livieried disaster, or the DAMS, or the Honda that died with Harvey Postlethwaite.
There are a lot of unraced F1 cars out there somewhere!

Simon Lewis
Transport Books
www.simonlewis.com

#34 Macca

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Posted 15 November 2005 - 11:56

(BRM P67 only practised.)

BRM P61/1 (Reims and Monza 1963).

Derrington-Francis ATS.

Paul M

#35 David Beard

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Posted 15 November 2005 - 12:43

Originally posted by Roger Clark
the BRP-Godiva,

I don't recall that at all, Roger....

More info?

Edit
(Actually when I was chatting to Bob King the other night, he described a BRP he had owned which answered that description.)

#36 Stephen W

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Posted 15 November 2005 - 14:28

C through to E

Chevron B41 DFV
Coloni FC187 DFZ
Connaught C-Type
Cooper T44 Bristol
Cooper T79 Climax
Cooper T80 Maserati
CTA-Arsenal (two built but one never raced/completed)
Derrington-Francis ATS
Eifelland Typ 21 (March 721 based so possibly not a unique car although very ugly)
Emeryson-Jaguar (front engined)
ENB-Maserati (using an elderly rear engined Emeryson chassis)
Ensign N181 (two were commenced but only 1 ever completed)
ERA G-Type

Back to the grindstone as I search through for some more!

:wave:

#37 Mallory Dan

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Posted 15 November 2005 - 14:30

Originally posted by f1steveuk
I'm interested to see if my brain is working correctly. I was challenged to name ten F1 cars where only one chassis was built, and raced (in a race with other F1 cars at least). McLaren M30, Brabham BT34, Chevron B42 (?) Ferguson etc etc

So how many, did I get them all (I think anyone running a website about old racing cars should go last!!!)

Steve, Chevron was the B41. The Shadow DN12 I think, on which point the Theodore TR1, the 78 Int Trophy Car. And did the Politoys/Williams become a Cortina mk3 Supersaloon ?

#38 philippe7

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Posted 15 November 2005 - 14:37

Originally posted by simonlewisbooks

How about -The Martini (suspect more than one of those existed)

No, you're right, only one Martini was made . The car was plagued with a design fault in the steering that made it terribly heavy, and poor René Arnoux, driving his first F1 , didn't spot the problem and just thought all F1 steerings were that heavy. Only when he moved to a Surtees TS19 after Martini had given up, and understandably found that car so much easier to steer, did he realise what the problem had been. Too late for the Martini effort to survive....

#39 ensign14

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Posted 15 November 2005 - 14:48

Originally posted by simonlewisbooks
I was going to add the 1979 Rebaque but
a) I don't recall it turning a wheel let alone racing
b) was it really a rebadged Lotus 79 chassis?

It did race, at the Glen?, but whether it was a warmed over 79 I have no idea. Guessing it was at least based on one.

Originally posted by simonlewisbooks
Then there was the dreadful Dywa that appeared at Monza for the Aurora AFX race in 79 or 80 but I suspect that didn't race either. Nor did the Lola that McNish tested a year or two prior to the Mastercard livieried disaster, or the DAMS, or the Honda that died with Harvey Postlethwaite.
There are a lot of unraced F1 cars out there somewhere!

The Kauhsens probably count cos they all had different model numbers. Given how shite WK004 and WK005 were, one wonders just how pathetic WKs001-3 were...and having seen photos of one of them somewhere on TNF they look a bit like a Smart in a WTCC race.

Dywa became the Monte Carlo F3000 that never raced. Poor Piercarlo Ghinzani actually practiced the Dywa...anyone have any pics of that?

Add the VM to the list of unique non-racers. DNS for reason of sleep.

#40 Stephen W

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Posted 15 November 2005 - 15:23

G to L

Gilby-Climax
Honda RA271
Honda RA300 (the Hondola)
Honda RA301
JBW-Maserati (1959 with a 250S engine)
JBW-Maserati (1961 with a 150S engine - later fitted with a Climax FPF)
Kieft-Climax (only just run!)
Kojima KE007 DFV
Lancia-Marino
LDS Mk3
LDS Mk4
Lotus 39 Climax
Lotus 56B Pratt & Whitney
Lyncar 006 DFV

Like Arnie I'll be back!

:wave:

#41 petefenelon

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Posted 15 November 2005 - 15:32

Originally posted by ensign14
It did race, at the Glen?, but whether it was a warmed over 79 I have no idea. Guessing it was at least based on one.

HR100 was a near-copy of his ex-works 79 built at Penske in Poole; Geoff Ferris and (I think!) John Barnard were involved with it. I don't know if any Lotus bits went into it.

#42 simonlewisbooks

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Posted 15 November 2005 - 15:50

Originally posted by petefenelon

HR100 was a near-copy of his ex-works 79 built at Penske in Poole; Geoff Ferris and (I think!) John Barnard were involved with it. I don't know if any Lotus bits went into it.

A car with no small pedigree!

Lotus,Penske,Ferris,Barnard,Wright & Chapman.

If horse racing genetics worked in motor racing this thing should have been like " Red Rum " or "Best Mate"

But then Hector wasn't exactly a world champion in the making. Shame.

Simon Lewis
www.simonlewis.com

#43 Roger Clark

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Posted 15 November 2005 - 19:27

Originally posted by David Beard

I don't recall that at all, Roger....

More info?

Edit
(Actually when I was chatting to Bob King the other night, he described a BRP he had owned which answered that description.)

Built by john Willment, driven by john Campbell-Jones in the 1966 Gold Cup, it was desperately slow and retired after five laps.

#44 David Beard

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Posted 15 November 2005 - 20:07

Originally posted by Roger Clark

Built by john Willment, driven by john Campbell-Jones in the 1966 Gold Cup, it was desperately slow and retired after five laps.

Thanks Roger, it's coming back to me now. It's been discussed on TNF before, yes?

#45 Stephen W

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Posted 15 November 2005 - 21:00

Now the letter M gives us......

Maki F-101 DFV
Maki F-102A DFV
Martini Mk23 DFV
Matra MS9 DFV
Matra MS84 DFV 4WD
McGuire BM1 DFV (modified Williams FW04)
McLaren M4B BRM V8
McLaren M5A BRM V12
McLaren M7B DFV
McLaren M7C DFV
McLaren M9A DFV 4WD
McLaren M14D Alfa Romeo V8
McLaren M30 DFV
Merzario A2 DFV
Merzario A4 DFV

Thank God for Mike Costin and Keith Duckworth :lol:

#46 stuartbrs

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Posted 16 November 2005 - 01:29

What about Mansell`s wide bodied McLaren... how many of the wider Chassis were built to accomodate his bum?

#47 f1steveuk

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Posted 16 November 2005 - 09:41

Well I should have fun in the pub now!!! If I remove the modified cars, and the developments, and seek out the "true" one chassis cars, then I should be able to extend the ten very well indeed. Now I'm going to count the Ns and check the spelling of all my posts!!!

#48 Stephen W

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Posted 16 November 2005 - 11:21

Next batch ....

Rebaque HR100 DFV
RRA-Cooper T43 Connaught
Shadow DN7 Matra V12
Shannon Climax FPE V8
Surtees TS7 DFV
Tec-Mec 415 Maserati
Tecno-Goral E731 F12
Token RJ02 DFV (aka Safir RJ02)
Trojan T103 DFV
Tyrrell DFV (001,002,003,004) ?
Wolf WR5 DFV
Wolf WR6 DFV

That could be about it!
:wave:

#49 f1steveuk

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Posted 16 November 2005 - 12:01

Well the Goral didn't race, and I don't count the Tyrrells nor the early Wolfs, same design just a funny way of numbering them!! The criteria I was given, one single chassis, F1 and it had to have raced.

#50 ian senior

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Posted 16 November 2005 - 12:21

Originally posted by Twin Window
Politoys FX3.

Is that the world's only racing car to share its model designation with a taxi?

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The one and only

#1 f1steveuk

#2 Gary C

#3 philippe7

#4 f1steveuk

#5 Gary C

#6 f1steveuk

#7 Twin Window

#8 Stephen W

#9 MCS

#10 Wolf

#11 philippe7

#12 philippe7

#13 f1steveuk

#14 philippe7

#15 Rob Ryder

#16 f1steveuk

#17 Rob Ryder

#18 Rob Ryder

#19 Twin Window

#20 f1steveuk

#21 David Beard

#22 f1steveuk

#23 Twin Window

#24 f1steveuk

#25 Roger Clark

#26 bill moffat

#27 Rob G

#28 Zawed

#29 Peter Morley

#30 Stephen W

#31 petefenelon

#32 CSGPR

#33 simonlewisbooks

#34 Macca

#35 David Beard

#36 Stephen W

#37 Mallory Dan

#38 philippe7

#39 ensign14

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#42 simonlewisbooks

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