All questions are on Brooklands meetings and Getty Images pictures (http://editorial.get.....0|0&p=0&tag=1).
They all haven't dates, only months.
June - Whit Monday meeting?
http://editorial.get...d=3336583&cdi=0
July - ?
http://editorial.get...d=3348170&cdi=0
August - Bank Holiday meeting? JCC 200 Mile race?
http://editorial.get...d=3348171&cdi=0
http://editorial.get...d=3347958&cdi=0
http://editorial.get...d=3336584&cdi=0
http://editorial.get...d=3336580&cdi=0
http://editorial.get...d=3307568&cdi=0
October - ?
http://editorial.get...d=3437976&cdi=0
http://editorial.get...d=3336162&cdi=0
http://editorial.get...d=3438809&cdi=0
No even month
http://editorial.get...d=3373106&cdi=0
http://editorial.get...d=3373105&cdi=0
http://editorial.get...d=3373103&cdi=0
These pictures are captioned as JCC 200 Mile race. Only month (August) is given.
http://editorial.get...d=3437979&cdi=0
http://editorial.get...d=3336575&cdi=0
JCC 200 Mile race was on August 19. Caption for this picture has August 1. Mistake?
http://editorial.get...d=3379190&cdi=0
1922 questions
Started by
Kvadrat
, Nov 15 2005 10:41
14 replies to this topic
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#2
humphries
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Posted 15 November 2005 - 14:40
Vladimir
The first photo is at the BARC Whitsun meeting held on 5 June.
It shows, I believe, cars lined up for the Light Car Scratch race, a blessed respite from the usual handicaps.
Starting from the left of the grid:-
#2 Bertie Kensington-Moir in Lionel Martin's Aston Martin III which came 2nd on its debut with the new "twin-cam" engine.
#3 Augustus Bertelli in his Enfield-Allday which retired
#4 Archie Frazer Nash in his fast "twin" GN which also retired after leading for half a lap
#5 John Joyce in Selwyn Edge's A.C. which won, as expected, touching 106 mph at times.
#6 Eric Gordon-England in his smoky "twin" ABC which, as expected, retired.
The non-starter was #1 Victor Bruce in Edge's other A.C.
If time permits I will identify other photos but cannot say when as I am up to my neck in research work. TNF is a coffee break activity that lasts far longer than a coffee break should.
John
The first photo is at the BARC Whitsun meeting held on 5 June.
It shows, I believe, cars lined up for the Light Car Scratch race, a blessed respite from the usual handicaps.
Starting from the left of the grid:-
#2 Bertie Kensington-Moir in Lionel Martin's Aston Martin III which came 2nd on its debut with the new "twin-cam" engine.
#3 Augustus Bertelli in his Enfield-Allday which retired
#4 Archie Frazer Nash in his fast "twin" GN which also retired after leading for half a lap
#5 John Joyce in Selwyn Edge's A.C. which won, as expected, touching 106 mph at times.
#6 Eric Gordon-England in his smoky "twin" ABC which, as expected, retired.
The non-starter was #1 Victor Bruce in Edge's other A.C.
If time permits I will identify other photos but cannot say when as I am up to my neck in research work. TNF is a coffee break activity that lasts far longer than a coffee break should.
John
#3
Kvadrat
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Posted 15 November 2005 - 14:56
Thank you, John, anyway.
#4
Kvadrat
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Posted 16 November 2005 - 09:18
I have one more question.
Motorcycle record attempt on July:
http://editorial.get...d=3398515&cdi=0
http://editorial.get...d=3378657&cdi=0
http://editorial.get...d=3379289&cdi=0
Look at this picture:
http://editorial.get...d=3311830&cdi=0
There's a car on the background, Selwyn Edges' Spyker in which he with riding mechanich made "Double 12 hours" speed record attempt on July 19 and 20.
http://editorial.get...d=3422231&cdi=0
http://editorial.get...d=3422227&cdi=0
http://editorial.get...d=3422224&cdi=0
http://editorial.get...d=3347957&cdi=0
Was Mrs Janson's attempt also on these days?
Motorcycle record attempt on July:
http://editorial.get...d=3398515&cdi=0
http://editorial.get...d=3378657&cdi=0
http://editorial.get...d=3379289&cdi=0
Look at this picture:
http://editorial.get...d=3311830&cdi=0
There's a car on the background, Selwyn Edges' Spyker in which he with riding mechanich made "Double 12 hours" speed record attempt on July 19 and 20.
http://editorial.get...d=3422231&cdi=0
http://editorial.get...d=3422227&cdi=0
http://editorial.get...d=3422224&cdi=0
http://editorial.get...d=3347957&cdi=0
Was Mrs Janson's attempt also on these days?
#5
humphries
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Posted 17 November 2005 - 10:42
Vladimir
Brooklands BARC 7 August, 1922
Information re. photos
1) The August Light Car and Cycle Car Handicap (Race 2). Behind Douglas Hawkes in his Morgan #8 is John Tollady in his Crouch #6. They were first and third respectively. John's grandson, Michael Wike, is a TNFer.
2) The VI 90 MPH Short Handicap (Race 6 ). Behind William Barlow's Bentley is Felix Scriven in his Austin #11 and, I believe, the GP Vauxhall "Rouge et Noir" of Humphrey Cook, later sponsor of E.R.A. They finished 1-2-3.
3)The XVI Lightning Short Handicap (Race 3). Parry Thomas in his Leyland came 2nd. Just about to get the flag for "off" is Harold Barlow in J.L.Dunne's mighty but aged 21.5 litre Benz which nonetheless was the winner. The more modern white racer is scratchman Louis Zborowski's 8 cyl. 4.8 Ballot which retired with valve trouble.
4) The XX 75 MPH Short Handicap (Race 4). According to the programme this should be the #11 Wolseley entered by A.J.McCormack and driven by Alistair Miller in a tussle with an ABC #10 of Eric Gordon-England.
Sadly the meeting was abandoned when David Gibson driving a Vauxhall in his first ever race was killed in the 8th race of ten. His passenger A.Gibson, a cousin, was badly injured.
John
Brooklands BARC 7 August, 1922
Information re. photos
1) The August Light Car and Cycle Car Handicap (Race 2). Behind Douglas Hawkes in his Morgan #8 is John Tollady in his Crouch #6. They were first and third respectively. John's grandson, Michael Wike, is a TNFer.
2) The VI 90 MPH Short Handicap (Race 6 ). Behind William Barlow's Bentley is Felix Scriven in his Austin #11 and, I believe, the GP Vauxhall "Rouge et Noir" of Humphrey Cook, later sponsor of E.R.A. They finished 1-2-3.
3)The XVI Lightning Short Handicap (Race 3). Parry Thomas in his Leyland came 2nd. Just about to get the flag for "off" is Harold Barlow in J.L.Dunne's mighty but aged 21.5 litre Benz which nonetheless was the winner. The more modern white racer is scratchman Louis Zborowski's 8 cyl. 4.8 Ballot which retired with valve trouble.
4) The XX 75 MPH Short Handicap (Race 4). According to the programme this should be the #11 Wolseley entered by A.J.McCormack and driven by Alistair Miller in a tussle with an ABC #10 of Eric Gordon-England.
Sadly the meeting was abandoned when David Gibson driving a Vauxhall in his first ever race was killed in the 8th race of ten. His passenger A.Gibson, a cousin, was badly injured.
John
#6
Kvadrat
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Posted 17 November 2005 - 11:15
Thank you, John. If it's possible please give full list of races of the meeting. I compile list of British and particularly Brooklands meetings.
#7
humphries
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Posted 17 November 2005 - 13:15
Brooklands 7/8
Race 1:- The August Private Competitors' Handicap
Race 5:- The XXXI 100 MPH Short Handicap
Race 7:- The XVI Lightning Long Handicap
Race 8:- The VI 90 MPH Long Habdicap
Race 9:- The XX 75 MPH Long Handicap
Race 10:- The XXX 100 MPH Long Handicap
The last two races not being held owing to the fatal accident.
Just noticed I have written Harold Barlow when it should be Horace Barlow. (Memory lapse)
John
Race 1:- The August Private Competitors' Handicap
Race 5:- The XXXI 100 MPH Short Handicap
Race 7:- The XVI Lightning Long Handicap
Race 8:- The VI 90 MPH Long Habdicap
Race 9:- The XX 75 MPH Long Handicap
Race 10:- The XXX 100 MPH Long Handicap
The last two races not being held owing to the fatal accident.
Just noticed I have written Harold Barlow when it should be Horace Barlow. (Memory lapse)
John
#8
Kvadrat
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Posted 18 November 2005 - 02:29
Thank you.
After looking at various images I now have some idea what main meetings were at Brooklands. They were on Easter, Whitsun and August bank holidays. Also there were JCC 200 mile, BRDC 500 mile races, later there would be Double 12 and relay races. Plus odd club meetings.
After looking at various images I now have some idea what main meetings were at Brooklands. They were on Easter, Whitsun and August bank holidays. Also there were JCC 200 mile, BRDC 500 mile races, later there would be Double 12 and relay races. Plus odd club meetings.
#9
humphries
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Posted 18 November 2005 - 10:53
Vladimir
Re. the photos with no dates. The first shows the start of the XXVIII 100 Short Handicap, a race held on the 17 April, 1922, hence the bleak aspect of the trees.
Starting on the far side is Archie Frazer Nash in his G.N. #12, the limit man.
Next to him is #11 Bertie Kensington-Muir in an Aston Martin entered by Lionel Martin.
Sandwiched between #11 and #10 is multi-millionaire Woolf Barnato in his Talbot #6, who had been re-handicapped in his favour with a 42 second start, the same as the Aston Martin, rather than his original 18 second advantage.
#10 is the Austin Twenty of Capt. Arthur Waite but driven by Louis Kings.
The winner was #9, the fierce 1500cc A.C. entered by Selwyn Edge and on this occasion driven by Kaye Don. He easily beat to the line the 21.5 litre Benz of Louis Zborowski, this car entered by Major Cooper (one of two that raced at Brooklands in 1922), and the fastest car in the race driven by Segrave, the Louis Coatelen-entered, works 5.0 Sunbeam.
#8 is indeed a Bentley, a 3 litre, in the hands of Frank Clement on behalf of W.O.
John
Re. the photos with no dates. The first shows the start of the XXVIII 100 Short Handicap, a race held on the 17 April, 1922, hence the bleak aspect of the trees.
Starting on the far side is Archie Frazer Nash in his G.N. #12, the limit man.
Next to him is #11 Bertie Kensington-Muir in an Aston Martin entered by Lionel Martin.
Sandwiched between #11 and #10 is multi-millionaire Woolf Barnato in his Talbot #6, who had been re-handicapped in his favour with a 42 second start, the same as the Aston Martin, rather than his original 18 second advantage.
#10 is the Austin Twenty of Capt. Arthur Waite but driven by Louis Kings.
The winner was #9, the fierce 1500cc A.C. entered by Selwyn Edge and on this occasion driven by Kaye Don. He easily beat to the line the 21.5 litre Benz of Louis Zborowski, this car entered by Major Cooper (one of two that raced at Brooklands in 1922), and the fastest car in the race driven by Segrave, the Louis Coatelen-entered, works 5.0 Sunbeam.
#8 is indeed a Bentley, a 3 litre, in the hands of Frank Clement on behalf of W.O.
John
#10
humphries
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Posted 25 November 2005 - 09:44
Vladimir
In the second of the undated photos the scene is the start of the Autumn Private Competitors Handicap, 14 October, 1922, a very pleasant, sunny, autumnal day.
Most of the cars are described correctly in the caption but the following can be added.
Ian Parker is driving the Crouch #9. The aluminium Bentley 3 litre is that of William Barlow. #4 has Barnato in the Talbot 4.75 with next to him Cook in the Vauxhall "Rouge et Noir". Was this car a modified 30/98 or one of the similar ex-works 1914 GP cars?
#2 is not Zborowski's Chitty III but Philip Rampon in a Fiat 10.1, which came 2nd, but with just a bit of the bonnet in view the Zborowski 6 cyl Mercedes 14.8 litre car #1.
John
In the second of the undated photos the scene is the start of the Autumn Private Competitors Handicap, 14 October, 1922, a very pleasant, sunny, autumnal day.
Most of the cars are described correctly in the caption but the following can be added.
Ian Parker is driving the Crouch #9. The aluminium Bentley 3 litre is that of William Barlow. #4 has Barnato in the Talbot 4.75 with next to him Cook in the Vauxhall "Rouge et Noir". Was this car a modified 30/98 or one of the similar ex-works 1914 GP cars?
#2 is not Zborowski's Chitty III but Philip Rampon in a Fiat 10.1, which came 2nd, but with just a bit of the bonnet in view the Zborowski 6 cyl Mercedes 14.8 litre car #1.
John
#12
humphries
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Posted 27 November 2005 - 11:49
Vlad
The last of the undated Brooklands. The XX 75 MPH Short Handicap, 7 August, 1922
Lionel Martin's Aston Martin was actually driven by Louis Zborowski, a change to the programme listing that had Kensington-Moir as the driver. The car lost a rear tyre during the race but did not come to grief.
Bill Oats is in the winning Lagonda with John Tollady in a Crouch (finished 2nd) to Oats's left. The #8 is Bertie Marshall in the Hampton. Oats did a 180 after crossing the line - not deliberately!
The car with a cluster of people around it is probably Felix Scriven's Austin 20 which kept cutting out. At the start he stalled but with the luxury of an electric starter Scriven was able to get away.
John
The last of the undated Brooklands. The XX 75 MPH Short Handicap, 7 August, 1922
Lionel Martin's Aston Martin was actually driven by Louis Zborowski, a change to the programme listing that had Kensington-Moir as the driver. The car lost a rear tyre during the race but did not come to grief.
Bill Oats is in the winning Lagonda with John Tollady in a Crouch (finished 2nd) to Oats's left. The #8 is Bertie Marshall in the Hampton. Oats did a 180 after crossing the line - not deliberately!
The car with a cluster of people around it is probably Felix Scriven's Austin 20 which kept cutting out. At the start he stalled but with the luxury of an electric starter Scriven was able to get away.
John
#13
humphries
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Posted 28 November 2005 - 13:02
Vladimir
To wrap up the queries about the 1922 season at Brooklands here are some observations.
The number of B.A.R.C. meetings held per year was usually five but sometimes just four. Easter, Whitsun, August Bank Holiday and an "Autumn" meet were customary but depending on the dates of Easter and Whitsun an additional meeting was often held, either in March if Easter was late but usually in May - July. In 1922 there was a BARC meeting on 13 May.
The July, 1922 dated photo depicting a couple indulging in a lunch break could have been taken at the Essex MC meeting, 22 July. It certainly was not taken at the MCC meeting held on 8 July when it hammered down with rain all day and the half completed meeting was abandoned. A meeting was held by 29 July by the Ealing & DMCC which, like the MCC, ran a few car races between its motor-cycle races.
Motor-racing, in my opinion, is a very good barometer of the socio-economic situation of a country. Looking at this photograph emphasizes the exclusive nature of racing at Brooklands. If that is a little pot of something in the begoggled man's hands then I bet it is something like pate de foie gras, caviar or Gentleman's Relish! The few spectators would be partaking of something similar. Contrast this with the situation at a 1922 American board track or fairground dirt track where the whiff of doughnuts, hamburgers and hot dogs was probably noticeable. Here auto racing was for the common man if you ignore racial divides.
John
To wrap up the queries about the 1922 season at Brooklands here are some observations.
The number of B.A.R.C. meetings held per year was usually five but sometimes just four. Easter, Whitsun, August Bank Holiday and an "Autumn" meet were customary but depending on the dates of Easter and Whitsun an additional meeting was often held, either in March if Easter was late but usually in May - July. In 1922 there was a BARC meeting on 13 May.
The July, 1922 dated photo depicting a couple indulging in a lunch break could have been taken at the Essex MC meeting, 22 July. It certainly was not taken at the MCC meeting held on 8 July when it hammered down with rain all day and the half completed meeting was abandoned. A meeting was held by 29 July by the Ealing & DMCC which, like the MCC, ran a few car races between its motor-cycle races.
Motor-racing, in my opinion, is a very good barometer of the socio-economic situation of a country. Looking at this photograph emphasizes the exclusive nature of racing at Brooklands. If that is a little pot of something in the begoggled man's hands then I bet it is something like pate de foie gras, caviar or Gentleman's Relish! The few spectators would be partaking of something similar. Contrast this with the situation at a 1922 American board track or fairground dirt track where the whiff of doughnuts, hamburgers and hot dogs was probably noticeable. Here auto racing was for the common man if you ignore racial divides.
John
#14
Kvadrat
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Posted 29 November 2005 - 02:27
It's vry interesting. So BARC was main race holder at Brooklands? It had "rights" for all bank holidays? And I was surprised to see how much minor meetings were at Brooklands besides thosemajor ones.
#15
Rob29
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Posted 29 November 2005 - 09:31
Pre-war 'BARC' was the Brooklands Automobile Racing Club.Organized I guess for the sole purpose of running racing at that circuit? Post war with the closure of the circuit,it was merged with the Junior Car Club to form the present British ARC.Originally posted by Kvadrat
It's vry interesting. So BARC was main race holder at Brooklands? It had "rights" for all bank holidays? And I was surprised to see how much minor meetings were at Brooklands besides thosemajor ones.
