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Return of the Williams chevron

Started by f1steveuk , Nov 28 2005 13:31

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38 replies to this topic

#1 f1steveuk

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Posted 28 November 2005 - 13:31

I've just seen a picture of the Williams winter testing livery, and there on the side is the old Williams chevron, that used to appear on the side of Porridge's Brabham. A nice touch, and nice to see a homage to their history, I wonder why?? Any other examples of this? Like McLaren testing in the old orange etc

#2 ian senior

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Posted 28 November 2005 - 14:08

And there I was , after seeing the title, thinking of the B18 driven by Cyd Williams.....

#3 Mallory Dan

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Posted 28 November 2005 - 14:48

Or the Peter Williams B29... Did Sir Frank ever run a Chevron I wonder ?

#4 2F-001

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Posted 28 November 2005 - 14:51

ISTR that Williams emblem also appeared on Dave Brodie's Escort (the Special Saloon racer, not his later Group 2 car.)

#5 Stephen W

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Posted 28 November 2005 - 16:19

Originally posted by ian senior
And there I was , after seeing the title, thinking of the B18 driven by Cyd Williams.....

Me too!

#6 f1steveuk

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Posted 28 November 2005 - 16:26

I'll go and stand in the corner, again!

#7 Vicuna

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Posted 28 November 2005 - 17:30

Good lord, a number on the side!!!

And the little white line up from the nose - nice touch.

I love it but it just needs the front wings to be white...

#8 Twin Window

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Posted 28 November 2005 - 17:33

[trumpet-blowing]

I spoke to Jonathan Williams a short time ago, and he says that I should take partial credit for the return of the Williams arrows...

Last winter, on a visit to Willies, I took over an old Williams arrow full-size sticker plus an FWRC compliments slip I'd had since around 1972 (when they were in Reading, Berkshire) as I thought JW would be amused to see them, and maybe his old man too. Frank was busy, so I left them with Jonathan and he says that a lot of folk have seen them in the intervening months, including Jim Wright - who decided to incorporate them in the interim livery.

The last all-blue Willie was the 1972 Politoys, IIRC, and I think the last appearance of the arrows (one for each side, both pointing forward) was on the 1973 ISO Marlboro FX3s. If not, they were definitely on the Politoys.

[/trumpet-blowing]

#9 RTH

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Posted 28 November 2005 - 17:39

Originally posted by 2F-001
ISTR that Williams emblem also appeared on Dave Brodie's Escort (the Special Saloon racer, not his later Group 2 car.)

Good excuse for someone to put up a picture of the fabulous " Run Baby Run " !

#10 2F-001

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Posted 28 November 2005 - 18:37

I was planning to do just that - but then realised I didn't have one of my own.

I was never really clear on the Williams connection (although Williams was, sometimes at least, given as the entrant in race programmes). Did the arrangement extend to Brodie's Elan too?

#11 f1steveuk

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Posted 28 November 2005 - 18:55

Originally posted by Twin Window
[trumpet-blowing]

I spoke to Jonathan Williams a short time ago, and he says that I should take partial credit for the return of the Williams arrows...

Last winter, on a visit to Willies, I took over an old Williams arrow full-size sticker plus an FWRC compliments slip I'd had since around 1972 (when they were in Reading, Berkshire) as I thought JW would be amused to see them, and maybe his old man too. Frank was busy, so I left them with Jonathan and he says that a lot of folk have seen them in the intervening months, including Jim Wright - who decided to incorporate them in the interim livery.

The last all-blue Willie was the 1972 Politoys, IIRC, and I think the last appearance of the arrows (one for each side, both pointing forward) was on the 1973 ISO Marlboro FX3s. If not, they were definitely on the Politoys.

[/trumpet-blowing]

A trumpet worth blowing! Is it an arrow or a chevron? Now if they can get a test driver to wear a silver blue helmet with a single black line over the centre, it woud instantly become my lap top wallpaper!

#12 RTH

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Posted 28 November 2005 - 19:25

Originally posted by 2F-001
I was planning to do just that - but then realised I didn't have one of my own.

I was never really clear on the Williams connection (although Williams was, sometimes at least, given as the entrant in race programmes). Did the arrangement extend to Brodie's Elan too?

David Brodie did at that time own an electroplating business, Williams may well have been a customer, maybe there was some contra arrangement of some kind ?

#13 EcosseF1

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Posted 28 November 2005 - 20:19

David Brodie was (may still be) a director of Williams.

#14 Twin Window

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Posted 28 November 2005 - 21:20

Originally posted by 2F-001

I was never really clear on the Williams connection (although Williams was, sometimes at least, given as the entrant in race programmes).

I always thought they that were primarily mates and, as such, helped each other out as-and-when.

#15 Michael Clark

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Posted 28 November 2005 - 23:14

Slightly off topic but Graham McRae was entered by Frank Williams when he first came to the UK in 1969.

This always intrigued me and when Graham told me of the connection I was amazed. Graham was actually collected from Heathrow by Frank in his Porsche in about May 1969.

From the airport to his HQ, Frank discovered Graham was more than just a chassis man and that he indeed knew a thing or two about engines as well.

So, Graham spent his first day in the UK working on the DFV that Piers Courage would use at the next GP - which might have been Monaco where, as I recall, he did rather well.

#16 Twin Window

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Posted 29 November 2005 - 07:24

Originally posted by Michael Clark

Slightly off topic but Graham McRae was entered by Frank Williams when he first came to the UK in 1969.

I never knew that!

And it sheds a new light on the fact that McRae's solitary GP was at the wheel of a Frank Williams ISO Marlboro...

#17 David Lawson

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Posted 29 November 2005 - 08:25

I hadn't realised that McRae only raced in one Grand Prix, I saw him at the 1973 British Grand Prix where I took this photograph.

Posted Image

David

#18 Twin Window

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Posted 29 November 2005 - 08:29

That was the one!

Lovely shot, David - is it at the exit of Becketts?

#19 Peter Morley

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Posted 29 November 2005 - 08:51

Originally posted by 2F-001
ISTR that Williams emblem also appeared on Dave Brodie's Escort (the Special Saloon racer, not his later Group 2 car.)

One of the special saloon Fords was based on Williams FW04 components (it used FW04 rear uprights at least), maybe it was that one?

#20 2F-001

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Posted 29 November 2005 - 09:02

I should think FW04 was a bit late for 'Run Baby Run' - but do you recall that rather beautiful Ford Capri 'silhouette' that Brodie had on the stocks? Maybe it was that -- I remember it being presented, unfinished, at Mallory Park, but don't recall if it actually raced - or, indeed, which year that was.

#21 RTH

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Posted 29 November 2005 - 09:28

Originally posted by 2F-001
I should think FW04 was a bit late for 'Run Baby Run' - but do you recall that rather beautiful Ford Capri 'silhouette' that Brodie had on the stocks? Maybe it was that -- I remember it being presented, unfinished, at Mallory Park, but don't recall if it actually raced - or, indeed, which year that was.

Yes, I remember it a black Mk 2 Capri with completely removable front and rear end bodywork, I seem to remember it was heavily crashed before it had a chance to do anything .

#22 MCS

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Posted 29 November 2005 - 11:44

Originally posted by Twin Window
I never knew that!

And it sheds a new light on the fact that McRae's solitary GP was at the wheel of a Frank Williams ISO Marlboro...

And didn't he do an F2 race (or two?) for Williams in a Brabham...

#23 MCS

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Posted 29 November 2005 - 11:47

Originally posted by RTH

Yes, I remember it a black Mk 2 Capri with completely removable front and rear end bodywork, I seem to remember it was heavily crashed before it had a chance to do anything .

Beatiful saloon car, powered by the 3.4 Ford GA engine I recall. Raced (only occasionally) in Super Saloons I think and wasn't there another driver (Jonathan Buncombe?) allocated to drive it as well? Not sure he ever did though.

#24 Mallory Dan

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Posted 29 November 2005 - 11:58

Anyone recall the Alistair Thompson (?) Supersaloon Cortina mk3 based on an ISO-Marlboro/Williams, maybe the same one pictured above. Not very quick, but v distinctive looking !

#25 David McKinney

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Posted 29 November 2005 - 12:13

Originally posted by MCS
And didn't he do an F2 race (or two?) for Williams in a Brabham...

That's what Mac - sorry, Michael - was referring to.
McRae's first European races were in a Brabham BT23C entered by FW.
By the end of the season though the entrant was Paul Watson - wonder why the change

#26 David Lawson

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Posted 29 November 2005 - 13:44

Originally posted by Twin Window
That was the one!

Lovely shot, David - is it at the exit of Becketts?

Yes. I always enjoyed watching at Becketts, you could also seeing the cars approaching through Maggotts at high speed.

David

#27 Peter Morley

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Posted 30 November 2005 - 08:26

Originally posted by 2F-001
I should think FW04 was a bit late for 'Run Baby Run' - but do you recall that rather beautiful Ford Capri 'silhouette' that Brodie had on the stocks? Maybe it was that -- I remember it being presented, unfinished, at Mallory Park, but don't recall if it actually raced - or, indeed, which year that was.

I really don't know which car or driver it was.
The Cortina mentioned by Mallory Dan definitely sounds like a possibility.

Originally posted by Twin Window
The last all-blue Willie was the 1972 Politoys, IIRC, and I think the last appearance of the arrows (one for each side, both pointing forward) was on the 1973 ISO Marlboro FX3s. If not, they were definitely on the Politoys.

Wasn't the last all blue Williams the FW05 (or Hesketh 308E) that they ran as Wolfs!!

If that is stretching things a bit far there is FW04, as driven by Zorzi in Brazil, that was also in the dark blue Wolf colours.

#28 2F-001

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Posted 30 November 2005 - 08:47

Ah - sorry Peter. I thought you meant specifically a 'Brodie' machine... I'd locked my mind into the Brodie offshoot of the threrad rather than the core Williams strand!

(Further O/T:
There were some extraordinary bits and pieces diverted into 'saloon' duty... including the basis of the de Cadanet/Duckhams Le Mans car, the Chevron group 6 car lurking beneath the 'Chimp', and an almost complete March F2 ground-effects car inside a "Lotus Esprit" - I think we've discussed all of these at some time or other).

#29 David Lawson

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Posted 30 November 2005 - 12:36

Originally posted by Twin Window
[trumpet-blowing]The last all-blue Willie was the 1972 Politoys, IIRC, and I think the last appearance of the arrows (one for each side, both pointing forward) was on the 1973 ISO Marlboro FX3s. If not, they were definitely on the Politoys.

[/trumpet-blowing]

The chevrons were still on the cars at the 1974 British Grand Prix.

Posted Image

David

#30 Twin Window

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Posted 30 November 2005 - 12:46

That's a great find, David! I'd not remembered seeing them that 'late' on.

Another super pic, BTW :up:

Bottom Bend?

#31 David Lawson

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Posted 30 November 2005 - 15:28

Yes it's Bottom Bend. Sadly and much to my wife and friends constant annoyance I can also identify almost any corner of any track from "the old days".

David

#32 f1steveuk

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Posted 30 November 2005 - 19:07

I'm not due home until the end of next week, so I can read my books, so in the meantime, wasn't there a word in the chevron?

#33 Twin Window

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Posted 30 November 2005 - 19:54

They - there were two different versions, each pointing in the opposite direction - simply said 'FRANK WILLIAMS'.

Posted Image

Both can just be made out in the above; the stickers were only produced in black & white, and the comp slip was in mono too.

#34 f1steveuk

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Posted 30 November 2005 - 19:59

Thank you Stuart, I knew I wasn'y imagining it. That's on the 505 isn't it?

#35 Twin Window

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Posted 30 November 2005 - 20:00

Yep; the de Tomaso.

#36 f1steveuk

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Posted 30 November 2005 - 20:04

Thought so. The last one that used to live on the toilet block at the De Tomaso factory is being restored, in Devon I think.

#37 DAVE TAYLOR

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Posted 09 April 2007 - 09:43

On a slightly different note. I once had the iso marboro F1 FX3/2 Ganley car which had a metallic badge stuck to the cockpit side with a courage breweries cock on it. Would this be a tribute to Piers? and was it on other williams cars?

When the car was sold to Don Wood as F5000 morand car it was still in place. Also driven at donington by Richard Peacock!! back with DFV

Quit a car this, it was a super saloon cortina at one point.

#38 macoran

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Posted 09 April 2007 - 11:16

Does anyone have / can anyone make a good scan of the Williams "arrow" ?

I am drawing one at the moment and haven't got all the details to get it right.