Two Ferraris, one number, one race, two questions...
#1
Posted 09 December 2005 - 20:40
In what was obviously an effort to avoid Mexican customs, Ferrari made a 250 MM in 1953 that was sold new to Efrain Ruiz Echevierra. It was also numbered 0239. Echevierra drove the car to 11th overall in the 1953 Carrera (7th in the big sports class). There is a reference in Cimarosti that says Echevierra raced this 250 MM earlier in the season in the "Tuscan Cup". Can anyone confirm an Echevierra entry in the 1953 Coppa Toscana, or any other European race in 1953.
Many thanks.
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#2
Posted 09 December 2005 - 23:16
WINO
#3
Posted 10 December 2005 - 16:07
Does anyone have 1953 Coppa Toscana results?
#4
Posted 10 December 2005 - 17:45
Wasn’t de Vroom actually from Belgium? (Even for Arents sometimes the nationality is given as Belgian.)Originally posted by WINO
Dutch-born Jan de Vroom and American-born George Arents
Does that link him to Geo Arents who raced in the 1904 Vanderbilt Cup (and whom I assume to be identical to George Arents Jr. who made a fortune on patents for cigar- and cigarette-rolling machines)?Originally posted by cabianca
George Arents was an heir to the American Tobacco Company.
#5
Posted 10 December 2005 - 18:34
The birth & death dates are correct for Arents, but not for de Vroom, who was killed in the 1960s or 70s. de Vroom was Dutch, not Belgian.
The quote below is from a work describing events leading up to the founding of the Mattachine Society, the first gay rights group in America, which was descended from the Atheneaum Society. Obviously, Arents is named, and I believe his partner mentioned is David Cunningham.
"Inman thrilled to the human element in the gay movement that he'd missed, comrades to work with him, someone to pat him on the back and say, "Well done!" After a sumptuous meal he took us to the home of a male couple who'd contributed money to his work.
"George is very closety," he explained, "but he does provide me with pocket cash when there's printing to be done, or when I want to get a mailing out."
George Arents was an elderly multi-millionaire who owned the United States franchise for Ferrari automobiles. We drove to his impressive Coral Gables mansion, Carousel, named to call attention to a row of merry-go-round horses that adorned the back porch.
The rich man had a handsome youthful lover whose career was car racing. The young man was an engaging conversationalist. On the Carousel porch, the five of us clinked glasses. Inman agreed, after a pina colada or two, that it might be wise to turn his Athenaeum Society into The Mattachine Society of Florida, Inc. "We should incorporate," he insisted, "because it would protect us if our Society gets in trouble." "
While all this is interesting, I'm still trying to place Echevierra at the 1953 Coppa Toscana.
#6
Posted 10 December 2005 - 20:28
Unfortunately I do not have the list of the about 200 starters.
Bad day for Ferrari. Biondetti, Valenzano, Piodi took the three first places in Aurelias from Bordoni's 3L Gordini and Carini's Alfa Romeo 1900 sedan.
#7
Posted 10 December 2005 - 23:43
I am sure that compared to George Arents' cash flow, Jan de Vroom's is likely to have been a mere trickle. He may have been a poseur, yet he managed Ferrari entries at Nassau in 1957 and Cuba in 1958. How could he afford his Ferraris? Conventional business proceeds or callboy business practices?
WINO
#8
Posted 14 December 2005 - 05:14
There is some evidence that part of De Vroom's money came from the wife of de Cuevas, the ballet impresario in the US. She was a Rockefeller. It didn't take that much to make an impression in those days. Chinetti offered me the Ferrari California that won the GT class at Sebring in 1958 for $8500, after it had been freshened. Admittedly, these are 1958 dollars, but for the parties mentioned, it was chump change.
It would seem that Cimorasti's mention of Echevierra's participation in the Coppa Toscana in 1953 may have been mistaken. One problem is that neither of the two Ferraris associated with Echevierra had been rebuilt or completed at the time of the race. If he did participate, it would have to have been in a loaner.
#9
Posted 03 December 2015 - 23:24
For the historic record, De Vroom was killed on November 13 1975. David Cunningham committed suicide, but I know neither when nor where.
#10
Posted 04 December 2015 - 05:38
I wish someone would write the complete story of Chinetti and surrounding personalities, as opposed to just the story of NART.
#11
Posted 04 December 2015 - 07:07
Jan de Vroom
#12
Posted 04 December 2015 - 22:10
Edited by Jerry Entin, 06 December 2015 - 15:49.
#13
Posted 05 December 2015 - 00:08
Thanks.
Jack
#14
Posted 05 December 2015 - 01:13
Jack: I got called away to dinner. It is up now.
#15
Posted 05 December 2015 - 04:40
That's a very evocative picture......Camoradi, "Road & Track" on the woodie with a long legged brunette on the tailgate, looks like the roof of a 250PF coupe back there, Speedster, TR2, and it looks like the 356 coupe might be wearing center-lock wheels......
What was Casner driving? It appears to be a TR from what is visible. I never really associated him with a Ferrari. Was he tied in with Arents, de Vroom, et al?
Edited by Jack-the-Lad, 05 December 2015 - 15:04.
#16
Posted 05 December 2015 - 15:10
Jack:
#17
Posted 05 December 2015 - 16:21
Also in the same group of wealthy enthusiasts living in Ft Lauderdale at the time was Robert Publicker, importer of Inver House Scotch and owner of the Ft Lauderdale Ferrari dealership which was called Paradise Motors* at the time. (And at that time Ft Lauderdale was much like a paradise.). Paradise became Cressman Motors, then Cressman-Baumgarten Ferrari, then Shelton Sports Cars, and now Ferrari-Maserati Ft Lauderdale.
To cabianca, sincere apologies for temporarily taking your thread down another path.
*Edit: My friend Al Roberts informs me that the dealership name was Pleasure Cars.
Edited by Jack-the-Lad, 12 December 2015 - 15:23.
#18
Posted 05 December 2015 - 17:13
I lived in Ft Lauderdale at the time. There was a developer there who built the first high rise condos on the beach, known as Galt Ocean Mile. His name was Hunt and his company was called Coral Ridge Properties, which he ultimately sold to General Electric or another multinational. I wonder if he could have been the same Hunt.
Jim Hunt's father was the property developer - see the discussion that starts here in the Volume 2 of 'Sports Car Racing in the South' thread which includes this post from Jerry/Willem:
Jack:
Coral Ridge [Properties Inc] was the name of the company of Jim Hunt's father. Hunt Sr. created the town of Coral Springs and did many development projects around Fort Lauderdale and Pompano Beach.
In 1966 Hunt Sr. sold out to Westinghouse for $36 million and the family could retire wealthy. Sadly, his grandson, James "Rocky" Hunt III, after choosing to serve his community as a police officer, was killed in the line of duty.
all research: Willem Oosthoek
#19
Posted 05 December 2015 - 17:26
Jack
Edited by Jack-the-Lad, 05 December 2015 - 22:24.
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#20
Posted 05 December 2015 - 21:04
#21
Posted 05 December 2015 - 22:16
Times have sure changed......an article in The Fort Lauderdale News mentioned that Moss was staying at Publicker's house. No address was given, so I looked in the phone book and sure enough, Publicker's phone number and address were listed! None of that could happen today, sad to say.
Thanks again.
Jack
#22
Posted 06 December 2015 - 15:38
Edited by Jerry Entin, 06 December 2015 - 15:50.
#23
Posted 07 December 2015 - 23:23
Jerry, Wino and David Cunningham watchers:
The gentleman at the right border of the photo is not David Cunningham, but probably Don O'Dell who drove the #16 Ferrari 250 LWB with Arents and Geo Reed of Reed's Racing Rats (2nd in GT). David Cunningham drove the #22 GT Class winning LWB with Bruce Kessler and Paul O'Shea. Cunningham had curly blond hair. He must not have been at the prize giving. The photo is one of a series taken at the event and Cunningham does not appear in any of them. The other identifications are correct. It appears that Chinetti has provided NART lapel pins to Kessler & O'Shea.
#24
Posted 08 December 2015 - 04:24
Edited by Jerry Entin, 08 December 2015 - 20:41.
#25
Posted 08 December 2015 - 05:15
Sebring 1958, where Chinetti-entered 250GT Ferraris finished 5th and 7th overall.
Front row: George Arents [still on crutches after his Bridgehampton accident] and Luigi Chinetti. Back row: Bruce Kessler, Paul O'Shea, George Reed and David Cunningham.
From: Sports Car Racing in the South [Volume 1]
Nice of Luigi to bring a covered dish.....lasagna? (I kid.)
#26
Posted 08 December 2015 - 22:42
Not to continue to belabor this, but as I said in the previous post, the man on the right in the prize giving picture is NOT David Cunningham. Since I've never had the luxury of three days to learn how to post pictures here, I will be happy to send a picture of Cunningham (with Arents) to anyone who cares. You can reach me on provamo@att.net
#27
Posted 09 December 2015 - 21:05
Edited by Jerry Entin, 10 December 2015 - 13:32.
#28
Posted 10 December 2015 - 18:32
Plus, we have learned that Arents ate pizza with a fork! What is the venue of the above picture?
Edited by Jack-the-Lad, 11 December 2015 - 03:55.
#29
Posted 11 December 2015 - 08:10
The Group on the street by the cars in Sebring
Shown in this picture are George Arents and Luigi Chinetti and Jan de Vroom and David Cunningham
photo: Michael Lynch collection
#30
Posted 11 December 2015 - 15:14
#31
Posted 12 December 2015 - 15:24
#32
Posted 26 December 2015 - 18:34
#33
Posted 27 December 2015 - 07:48
I found a couple of links. Apparently, Hamill moved in 2013 according to this:
http://www.palmbeach...for-729m/nb2py/
This former address includes a phone number which still seems to be his:
http://www.ypflorida...amill/91762433/
He was still on the voters list as of November this year.
Hope this helps.
Vince H.
#34
Posted 31 October 2017 - 04:36
#35
Posted 03 October 2018 - 07:46
Cabianca:David "Goldie Locks" Cunningham seems to have covered his curls with Brylcreem for the Sebring race ceremony, but above is a shot of him at Eagle Mountain in April 1957, aboard Arents' 500TRC [chassis 0662]. Same facial features, but the curls are hidden of course.All research: Willem Oosthoekphoto: Bob Jackson
Wasn't Eagle Mountain in June 1957? In the results there is no Ferrari #96. Arents/Cunningham entered a Testa Rossa at Boca Raton in March 1957 that carried #96.
#36
Posted 03 October 2018 - 15:39
#37
Posted 03 October 2018 - 17:00
Wasn't Eagle Mountain in June 1957? In the results there is no Ferrari #96. Arents/Cunningham entered a Testa Rossa at Boca Raton in March 1957 that carried #96.
I have three races at Eagle Mountain in 1957, 20 January, 14 April and 1 June. Unfortunately, for 14 April I only have one Porsche and nothing more yet.
#38
Posted 03 October 2018 - 22:35
Arjan,
While the Eagle Mountain National was held on June 1-2, 1957, the Texas Region organized a dry run on the weekend of April 13-14, which is when the photo was taken. The partially blocked-off radiator intake indicates a cold day.
As for Boca Raton on March 9-10, 1957, yes, Arents was entered with a 500TRC under #96, finishing 2nd overall in the feature. A start photo [in color] I used to have on my computer [lost in a recent crash] showed it was the same car as the one at Eagle Mountain.
All research: Willem Oosthoek
#39
Posted 03 October 2018 - 22:36
Further to Henk’s email, I can provide the following partial results for the April 13-14, 1957 weekend.
Race 3 [10 laps, 21 starters]
- Jim Saunders [#222 FoMoCo Special] BM1
- Bob Schroeder [#233 Kurtis/Buick] BM2
- Bob Stonedale [#9 Corvette] BM3
- A.D. Logan [#111 Ferrari 750 Monza] DM1
- Gary Laughlin [#2 Ferrari 750 Monza] DM2
Norm Scott [#42 Porsche 550RS] FM1
Bobby Burns [#12 Bobtail Cooper T39/Climax] GM1
Race 6 [15 laps, feature]
- Laughlin
- Saunders
- Stonedale
- Scott
Burns GM1
All research: Willem Oosthoek
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#40
Posted 04 October 2018 - 08:36
Arjan,
While the Eagle Mountain National was held on June 1-2, 1957, the Texas Region organized a dry run on the weekend of April 13-14, which is when the photo was taken. The partially blocked-off radiator intake indicates a cold day.
As for Boca Raton on March 9-10, 1957, yes, Arents was entered with a 500TRC under #96, finishing 2nd overall in the feature. A start photo [in color] I used to have on my computer [lost in a recent crash] showed it was the same car as the one at Eagle Mountain.
All research: Willem Oosthoek
Jerry, Henk,
Thank you for the addition and correction. Clearly this is David Cunningham. However who is the gentlemen standing (in racing gear) beside #10? Is this Jan de Vroom? They resemble.
http://lemans.sqwib....=1957&numero=10
#41
Posted 04 October 2018 - 14:06
Arjan,
While the Eagle Mountain National was held on June 1-2, 1957, the Texas Region organized a dry run on the weekend of April 13-14, which is when the photo was taken. The partially blocked-off radiator intake indicates a cold day.
As for Boca Raton on March 9-10, 1957, yes, Arents was entered with a 500TRC under #96, finishing 2nd overall in the feature. A start photo [in color] I used to have on my computer [lost in a recent crash] showed it was the same car as the one at Eagle Mountain.
All research: Willem Oosthoek
Jerry,
What was the venue of the Boca Raton race? Was it an airport circuit? There wasn't much to Boca Raton in those days except the Old Floresta neighborhood and some beach properties.
Jack.
#42
Posted 05 October 2018 - 01:14
Jack,
The event was held at the Boca Raton Airport, on a 3.5-mile concrete track layout with eight turns.
Sponsorship came from the Boca Raton America Legion Post 277.
The feature race went to Jack Ensley in Gay Jackson’s D-type [chassis 546] after his original entry, an XK-SS, became a victim of the factory fire.
All research: Willem Oosthoek
#43
Posted 05 October 2018 - 02:16
Jack,
The event was held at the Boca Raton Airport, on a 3.5-mile concrete track layout with eight turns.
Sponsorship came from the Boca Raton America Legion Post 277.
The feature race went to Jack Ensley in Gay Jackson’s D-type [chassis 546] after his original entry, an XK-SS, became a victim of the factory fire.
All research: Willem Oosthoek
Thank you.
At the risk of asking a bit too much, do you have an entry list?
#44
Posted 17 April 2020 - 14:14
#45
Posted 17 April 2020 - 22:39
. I have found one photo of the car after crashing into a tree at VIR
Was it the big oak at the top end of VIR perchance ?
Off topic, what a wonderful racetrack brought back from the dead 20 years ago. I've followed it's rebirth on & off from the start
#46
Posted 18 April 2020 - 06:03
I'm reviving this old thread in search of any photos of the David Cunningham Ferrari 500TRC chassis #644 ( I believe) that raced at Watkins Glen and Virginia International Raceway in 1957. It may have raced at other events as well. I have found one photo of the car after crashing into a tree at VIR but was wondering what it looked like before. Thanks for any help.
Have you seen this link?
http://www.barchetta...4MDTR.625LM.htm
Was it a 500TRC or a 625LM ?
Vince H
#47
Posted 19 April 2020 - 02:03
I have had a glance through the Terry O'Neil book "Northeast American Sports Car Races: 1950-1959" couldn't see any thing regarding David Cunningham and this Ferrari 500TRC (sn:0644, in the chapter on 1957. have you tried the Motor Racing Research centre in Watkins Glen ? I'm sure someone here will come up with something.
#48
Posted 19 April 2020 - 02:54
Vince- you are correct, the car is a 625LM. I was going on info on the VIR History website. I am going to reach out to the Research Center on Monday. Do you know if Bill Green is still there?Have you seen this link?
http://www.barchetta...4MDTR.625LM.htm
Was it a 500TRC or a 625LM ?
Vince H
Tom
#49
Posted 19 April 2020 - 16:23
Vince- you are correct, the car is a 625LM. I was going on info on the VIR History website. I am going to reach out to the Research Center on Monday. Do you know if Bill Green is still there?
Tom
Tom,
The IMRRC has been closed for about a month and reopening was pushed back from a week or so ago and at this point maybe into May. The staff is working as best they can from home and, yes, my good friend Bill is still there.
If you submit your question, it will eventually get to Bill, of course. Want me to call him up and ask about the David Cunningham Ferrari 500TRC and if he is aware of any photos of it in 1957?
Don
#50
Posted 19 April 2020 - 22:52
Don-
that would be fantastic. I grew up about an hour from Watkins Glen and raced there in the 1980s and my work used to give me the chance to spend a day or two at the IMRRC once or twice per year. Retirement and travel constraints have blocked that for now. Bill was always very helpful during my many visits.
Regards,
Tom