Ron Dennis on 'football saturation' of F1

Ron Dennis has warned against having, "football saturation" of Formula One by holding too many races.

"If you ask me, do I want to race in Italy twice or once in Italy and once in Russia, to me it's a no-brainer...we are in a world championship, we shouldn't be rejecting Russia over having two races in Italy."

Do you agree?

its only 20 races for gods sake.

hes right about countries though.

Shaun

I have no problem with San Marino because its kind of traditional now. Although I wish they'd fix the track.

As far as 2 in Germany, I'd like to see them go back to when they rotated the "European Grand Prix".

yeah that was kind of cool. hell without it Donington 93 would never have happened.

Shaun

i lived in moscow for 3 years, and it would be great to see a street race in moscow,

although they would need to resurface most of the roads

The should drop Imola and alternate the European Grand Prix between circuits around Europe e.g. Germany, then Italy, then England etc...

Originally posted by alexcason
The should drop Imola and alternate the European Grand Prix between circuits around Europe e.g. Germany, then Italy, then England etc...

they should drop the european GP all together, we have enough races in europe, better to have races in other countrys, eg. russia, india, poland, south africa

I hope they do not drop Imola. I always do well there on Playstation.

As long as mister Ron does say that the prices shouldnt be too high for races overseas it's fine with me.

Because im not going to spend a fortune plus a flight ticket etc etc to go see a F1 race. And most of the time the local people arent interested in Formula 1 so the crowd is small.

F1 just has a great support here in Europe and they shouldnt deny it.

It is ludicrous that Italy and Germany should get 2 rounds when other countries are clamouring for them - and when other countries like Britain and France who have arguably done a lot more in motor racing history only have 1. I like the idea of rotating the Euro GP between them.

Imola should stay, European should be mated to Pacific & African.

So we have:
2006 - European GP (not the Shitty little Nürburgring - Donny, Paul Ricard, Estoril)
2007 - Pacifc GP (Aida, or Fuji)
2008 - African GP (Kylami)
2009 - Americas GP (Mexico, Buenos Aires, Laguna Seca)
etc.

That ought to leave Russia a permanent space, anyway... - in 20 race year.

Perhaps I'm too tainted by nostalgia but I find it ridiculous that countries with such a rich history of motorsports should have to give up races so places like China or Bahrain can host a race.

Originally posted by jaisli
Perhaps I'm too tainted by nostalgia but I find it ridiculous that countries with such a rich history of motorsports should have to give up races so places like China or Bahrain can host a race.

As rich as their histories may be, the point is to allow for the biggest challenges, the most variety, and giving fans the oppurtunity to "Worship at the altar" irrespective of where they're from. The past's great, but I'm really looking forward to the future.

Originally posted by EnGiNe_BRaKeS
i lived in moscow for 3 years, and it would be great to see a street race in moscow,

although they would need to resurface most of the roads

They've done it already

Originally posted by Calorus

2006 - European GP (not the Shitty little Nürburgring - Donny, Paul Ricard, Estoril)

If you ask the drivers they'll tell you they actually like the Nurburgring. Donington would be unable to host Formula One cars now, Paul Ricard is a permanent test track and is unable to host races, which leaves Estoril in your list.

Originally posted by Jackman
If you ask the drivers they'll tell you they actually like the Nurburgring. Donington would be unable to host Formula One cars now, Paul Ricard is a permanent test track and is unable to host races, which leaves Estoril in your list.

They may very well enjoy it - I have no right to speak their behalf concerning their prefernces - however, I have a feeling that if there were any hope for an F1 return, Donnington would extend the scale of their already planned redevelopment. Equally, Paul Ricard have made noises a couple of times this century. I'm sure they'd jump at it if the opportunity arose.

And for Nürburgring is a big reminder of what a REAL cicuit looks like...

Keep Imola, drop Hungaroring, interchange between Nurburgring and Hockenheim for the German GP.

Originally posted by baddog
yeah that was kind of cool. hell without it Donington 93 would never have happened.

Shaun

Jerez 97 neither... : Ok, drop the European GP ;)

If I was in charge i'd allow testing for a month before the start of the season then run 20 races and open Friday for testing .. all day if they like.

Why is thjis so hard to do?? They seem to test constantly and with the weather in europe that is a lot fo travelling to Spain searching for the sun.

He probabley works the team so hard, he realises the 20 races don't work for him, but the other teams don't seem as vocal, and DENNIS!!! doesn't quite let his them enjoy a GP win when a championship is at stake, reason why the popular mclaren guy left after 2000, can't remember his name, but he did some articles for atlas. Dennis and mclaren too robotic on human bodies, they BURN out quicker in 20 races. They need to learn how to party, DC's all new again at Redbull lol, wonder why.

Originally posted by Alfisti
If I was in charge i'd allow testing for a month before the start of the season then run 20 races and open Friday for testing .. all day if they like.

Why is thjis so hard to do?? They seem to test constantly and with the weather in europe that is a lot fo travelling to Spain searching for the sun.

Because there are GP2, Supercup, and various other races run on most of the F1 weekends - for the fans on track it is good that there are other things to watch than testing, because testing runs are quite boring to watch.

That said, everyone arrives early anyway, and are at the track on Thursday despite nothing happening on track - that could be easily rectified.

Originally posted by F1Fanatic.co.uk

Do you agree?

Yes. I've said it plenty of times and actually used the same comparison to football.

Originally posted by Jackman
Because there are GP2, Supercup, and various other races run on most of the F1 weekends - for the fans on track it is good that there are other things to watch than testing, because testing runs are quite boring to watch.

That said, everyone arrives early anyway, and are at the track on Thursday despite nothing happening on track - that could be easily rectified.

Well yeah, do THursday then ... really .. they travel there anyway so why run 12 laps or whatever .. get out there.

Originally posted by Jackman
Because there are GP2, Supercup, and various other races run on most of the F1 weekends - for the fans on track it is good that there are other things to watch than testing, because testing runs are quite boring to watch.

That said, everyone arrives early anyway, and are at the track on Thursday despite nothing happening on track - that could be easily rectified.

no F-ing way thats the reason. It has to be Ferrari. They own two circuits and now they have to close them up for 8months out of the year? They would have to be threatened to aggree to that.


I personally think it'd be great. Add beaucoup value to the fans dollar, and Sponsor time for teams (though they wouldnt air the whole day). **** with something like that no driver would be able to say they dont have enough track time.

Of course the extra Italian and German races should be scrapped. The butchered Imola is a shadow of it's former self, and Hockenheim could be dropped, with the Nurburgring taking it's place.

17 races is about right for the Championship. And the F1 World Championship should be all the juristiction that Bernie has over the formula. There is room for non-championship races, and if costs are cut in the manner that the FIA are planning, there could be plenty of teams willing to take part. Bernie might find that they (the non-championship races) might become another important source of revenue.

I say don't drop any current tracks from the calendar as long as Tilke is in command.

For me its simply about the tracks.
If track A is one of the 20 best - include it.
If track B is also one of the 20 best, and in the same country - include it.
All the tracks are in the world.
Granted more than 2 per country is a problem.
But the only real country with that problem is Germany. Though Imola is in Italy, its status as a San Marino track is acceptable - to me anyway.
Also Italy, France, Germany, and England are what gave birth to motor racing in the first place, so extra GPs in them should be ok.
Perhaps in the modern world these could be put on as non-championship.
But I think by 2008 we'll be looking at 25 races with much less testing, and fewer engines etc. Whether I like this idea, and whether it is a good idea, I haven't decided yet. Too much other stuff to do!!
But the important thing to remember and consider is the strength of individual tracks. Lets not dump Imola to go to Russia for another bland circuit, with limited overtaking.
It may bring new sponsorship opportunities, but frankly who cares, its the racing, not the moving ads, I want to see. (Granted Imola is a fairly poor track post Senna, but the principle still stands).
Who'd complain if F1 cars started to run at Surfers Paradise, Laguna Seca, Donnington, Paul Ricard, ahh you'll know more great unused tracks than me, you list them, as well as the current homes.
Lets not have our attention diverted by the 'World' moniker. Russia is not so important. Its a big place, yes, but what about the entire African continent without any. Or South America with only one. Or central america, with none. Or the world's second largest island, with none. Russia is in Europe, Europe has plenty. And if you argue for one per country for the sake of a 'world championship' lets start by dividing between continents first.

Theres also another continent, fairly well south, that would provide interesting engineering problems, not only for tyre manufacturers!!!!

Originally posted by jaisli
Perhaps I'm too tainted by nostalgia but I find it ridiculous that countries with such a rich history of motorsports should have to give up races so places like China or Bahrain can host a race.

Because it is a world championship. Only Europe and the US has "such a rich history of motorsports" if your theory is taken to its logical conclusion.

Italy already has its GP at Monza.

Originally posted by Alfisti
Well yeah, do THursday then ... really .. they travel there anyway so why run 12 laps or whatever .. get out there.

Well, the other problem would be the two weekend engines - more testing means more engines going bang. Which is apparently Ferrari's fault, for some reason.

considering how much the teams spend on testing , which has very little , if any commercial benifit.

How about this.

20 races (every 2 weeks over a 40 week season )
3 day weekends where Friday is a test session.
2 weeks of pre season testing
10 week test ban
10 days of non-racing weekend testing during the period starting at the first GP and ending at the last GP.

Originally posted by Jackman
Well, the other problem would be the two weekend engines - more testing means more engines going bang. Which is apparently Ferrari's fault, for some reason.

Yeah but we all agree that rule is stupid beyond belief and it's gotta go.

You're on the inside, what does testing cost? Is it as much as we think it is??? I find it perplexing to see the cars buzz about by themselves when sponsors could be paraded in front of thousands of paying customers ... i don't get it. 20+ races and 4 weeks testing in February. That's it.

There should be exactly 20 races. Any less is too short.

Originally posted by angst
17 races is about right for the Championship. And the F1 World Championship should be all the juristiction that Bernie has over the formula. There is room for non-championship races, and if costs are cut in the manner that the FIA are planning, there could be plenty of teams willing to take part. Bernie might find that they (the non-championship races) might become another important source of revenue.

Totally agreed.


To me, there's no better preparation for a racing season than an actual race. Limit testing as much as you can, but organize a few non-championship races from December to February instead of test days. It would also give the teams a chance to showcase their third drivers.


As A1GP and GPMasters seem to be showing, there's a market for racing in the F1 off-season.

Ditch Imola and Nurburgring. Let the Euro GP rotate between certain tracks instead (Austria, Donington, Imola, nurburgring etc etc).
Have two races in the US, one in Africa.
Let them race at Adeleide or Philip Island istead of Melbourne.

Originally posted by Fortymark
Ditch Imola and Nurburgring. Let the Euro GP rotate between certain tracks instead (Austria, Donington, Imola, nurburgring etc etc).
Have two races in the US, one in Africa.
Let them race at Adeleide or Philip Island istead of Melbourne.

Exactly.

Let`s say we have 18 races a year, 10 of them can be fix, 8 slots open for rotation.

But I doubt Bernie will agree with us because he has mainly longterm contracts with all the circuits?

But 2008 could be the chance to start rotating.

What's it got to do with 'football saturation' ?


Of course no country should have more than one GP. It's a world championship after all. More races in ar away places the better.


Imagine the casual fan thinking, it's F1 they jet all over the world, then on closer inspection where did they go last week Germany, this week Britain, next week France...

Originally posted by Calorus
As rich as their histories may be, the point is to allow for the biggest challenges, the most variety, and giving fans the oppurtunity to "Worship at the altar" irrespective of where they're from. The past's great, but I'm really looking forward to the future.

Not really. The point is to go where the money is and increasingly that is away from traditional venues in Europe.

Originally posted by EnGiNe_BRaKeS
i lived in moscow for 3 years, and it would be great to see a street race in moscow,

although they would need to resurface most of the roads

That's not so hard though is it.

Only minor lane diversions for a coulpe of seperates day isn't it , motorists drive on the grated surface on the dug up old bitumen for a few weeks, then as soon as the new bitumen goes down and is still hot the lanes are opened later that afternoon. Line marking completed with road open a few days later.

I thought that there were too many races last year; 18 is enough. I'd like to see F1 at the best tracks but it's all about $$$ so we will never see this happen.

Originally posted by F1Fanatic.co.uk
Ron Dennis has warned against having, "football saturation" of Formula One by holding too many races.

"If you ask me, do I want to race in Italy twice or once in Italy and once in Russia, to me it's a no-brainer...we are in a world championship, we shouldn't be rejecting Russia over having two races in Italy."

Do you agree?

My vote:

- 18 races

People who are directly affected by those decisions generally agree, that 18 is the magic number that they can handle effectively. I have no reason to dispute it. Oversaturation point is well taken.

- Choice of countries: Italy, Germany is fine with me / no change

No Russian race will take place until they pay for all war crime damages to the countries they were ripping off for half century! If this sounds political, than it is only because its meant to sound political. Justice is prerequisite to change of my vote.

Originally posted by Alfisti
You're on the inside, what does testing cost? Is it as much as we think it is??? I find it perplexing to see the cars buzz about by themselves when sponsors could be paraded in front of thousands of paying customers ... i don't get it. 20+ races and 4 weeks testing in February. That's it.

It costs a fortune, and even more this year - there were a bunch of times where teams sent too different test teams to two different tracks in case the weather was bad at one and they lost on of their test days, which obviously doubled costs.

So Germany can have 2 races and Italy can't?

"If the option was to have one race in Chernobyl and one on 3 mile island or 2 in Italy to me its a no brainer."

No Russian race will take place until they pay for all war crime damages to the countries they were ripping off for half century!

May I venture a guess you are ok with the US Grand Prix ;)

Originally posted by cavallinö
So Germany can have 2 races and Italy can't?

"If the option was to have one race in Chernobyl and one on 3 mile island or 2 in Italy to me its a no brainer."




May I venture a guess you are ok with the US Grand Prix ;)

That question - how about US - wasn't asked.

Originally posted by EnGiNe_BRaKeS


they should drop the european GP all together, we have enough races in europe, better to have races in other countrys, eg. russia, india, poland, south africa

Your geography -urgently-needs an uppdate...Russia and Polen are in the European continent.

As for race tracks needing to be ditched How about this rather illustrious list:

Catalunja
Hungaro Ring
N-Ring
Imola

Then Bernie et al Should have a hearty chat with the some of the TV directories chief among them the French and Japanese ones, topic should be something along "Jingoistic missuse of the camera/coverage's negative consequencies on the hosts future bids to renew their rights to the race slot"....

25 should be the minimum number of races.

As soon as the teams fairly get all the money that Bernie Ecclestone robes them, they will be the first interested in running more races.

I think 17-18 seems about right. Avoiding black holes, when there are more than 2 weeks between races, is key since nothing kills the momentum of a season for a fan than long breaks.

I agree with taking the best tracks, though not likely in reality. Part of the appeal of 1980s GPs was the venues on the schedule, the old Ostereichring, Zaandvort, Estoril, Brands, Kyalami, longer Hockenheim, Spa, Ricard, Adelaide....

Why is everyone down on the N-ring? It has produced good races, especially with the the last few races with new first corner. Why is the new Hock-ring so much better?

I agree that the Catalunya, Imola and Hungaroring can go as the races are a procession at those tracks.

It's been quite come time since I've convinced myself that 17 races is enough while Imola and any of the German tracks could be dropped.

We've only had two years with more than 17 races, but so far it seems as if the extra races didn't add any excitement at all. And all these back to back races take away from the anticipation for the next races and events.

Don't understand what Dennis is on about. he says he needs a 3 month break,when he already has a 4 month one if out of season testing was dropped? Also if the 2 ,3 week breaks during the season were dropped back to back weekends could be avoided.
Oh,and the places with a rich history of racing besides Europe and the USA ,include Australia,New Zealand,South Africa,Argentina,Brasil,etc.
NASCAR manages 38 meetings per season with a break mid November to mid Feb.

I wouldn't mind seeing Imola be dropped, just as long as the extra race doesn't go outside of Europe.

Give the A1 Ring or Estoril they're race back.