Hello all,
I just finished watching "The Flying Scot", which my wife got me for Christmas. It is a fantastic documentary, and I would highly recommend it.
Anyway, prior to my developing interest in 70's F1, I vaguely remember reading that somebody calculated Stewart routinely had one of the slowest entry speeds but fastest exit speed through corners. Is anybody familiar with this "study"? Or if it just happened to be the writers opinion, does anybody here have an opinion about this?
I grew up about 20 minutes from Watkins Glen, and would have been 12 years old when they held the last F1 race there. Although I know I probably wouldn't have appreciated it at the time, I am disappointed that I never got to see F1 at the Glen, it must have been awesome.
Thanks.
Greg
Jackie Stewart question
Started by
GregY
, Jan 03 2006 03:15
18 replies to this topic
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#2
MonzaDriver
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Posted 03 January 2006 - 10:01
Hi Greg,
in my opinion too the " Flying Scot" it's a fantastic documentary.
In one of his book, Stewart wrote that exit speed have paramount importance about lap time.
Above all if the bend is before a long straight.
So surely it is a thing Jackie Stewart really think about during his driving.
I wondering if Clark told him about that.
I wish all the best, for all the 2006, to all the fantastic members of this forum.
MonzaDriver.
in my opinion too the " Flying Scot" it's a fantastic documentary.
In one of his book, Stewart wrote that exit speed have paramount importance about lap time.
Above all if the bend is before a long straight.
So surely it is a thing Jackie Stewart really think about during his driving.
I wondering if Clark told him about that.
I wish all the best, for all the 2006, to all the fantastic members of this forum.
MonzaDriver.
#3
Graham Gauld
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Posted 03 January 2006 - 10:43
I am in no doubt that Jackie was influenced by Jim Clark as this was Jim's concept : the quickest man round the corner was not the last man to brake but the first man to accelerate. This was ok back then when cars did not go round corners on rails but not so true today I would imagine. Confirmation of this technique was proved to me by Bruce McLaren who told me he had gone out in practice for a grand prix and first followed Graham Hill who, by his explanation, went into corners deep and braking then cut across whereas Clark tended to dive into a corner early and power out of it. Bruce said he had tried both methods and favoured Clarks. Mind you he might have been giving me a smoke job but I accepted his comments at the time. It was the same Bruce McLaren who, at that soaking wet Snetterton race meeting early in 1964, when the organisers offered all the single seater competitors a free for all practice session, asked me about this Scotsman who could almost keep up with his Formula 1 Cooper in those awful conditions in a Formula Junior Cooper !!! (Jackie Stewart)
#4
MonzaDriver
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Posted 03 January 2006 - 12:15
Dear Mr Gauld,
an heartfelt thank you.
I only imagine about this relationship, now you tell us the truth. Thank you.
I also wondering how many " driving tips" Clark give to Jackie Stewart.
Could you be so gentle to tell us just another one you know?
My opinion is that Jackie Stewart go ahead in his study about " the art of driving" long after Clark's death.
It would be a dream for myself to ask him, how he modify his driving style from the Clark's one
in order to cope with the forces imposed by wings and slick. Becasue I am sure no one better than Stewart know about that matter.
Even if, and maybe here Mr Gauld you agree with me, this change was really bad luck.
I mean, this style, this art of driving, from Jim Clark to Jackie Stewart, this "school" dont go ahead
from Stewart to another driver, because of the technical changes of F1.
The relationship and the teaching that Stewart was doing with Francoise Cevert,
maybe was the sum of that, the art of driving of Clark plus his experience, passed to Stewart.
The art of Stewart plus his experience passed to Francoise. What a driver he could have been.
MonzaDriver.
an heartfelt thank you.
I only imagine about this relationship, now you tell us the truth. Thank you.
I also wondering how many " driving tips" Clark give to Jackie Stewart.
Could you be so gentle to tell us just another one you know?
My opinion is that Jackie Stewart go ahead in his study about " the art of driving" long after Clark's death.
It would be a dream for myself to ask him, how he modify his driving style from the Clark's one
in order to cope with the forces imposed by wings and slick. Becasue I am sure no one better than Stewart know about that matter.
Even if, and maybe here Mr Gauld you agree with me, this change was really bad luck.
I mean, this style, this art of driving, from Jim Clark to Jackie Stewart, this "school" dont go ahead
from Stewart to another driver, because of the technical changes of F1.
The relationship and the teaching that Stewart was doing with Francoise Cevert,
maybe was the sum of that, the art of driving of Clark plus his experience, passed to Stewart.
The art of Stewart plus his experience passed to Francoise. What a driver he could have been.
MonzaDriver.
#5
James Page
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Posted 03 January 2006 - 12:30
I think it was either Clark or Stewart who said that where you got on the brakes was less important than where you came off them. Later brakers would have had to scrub off more speed during the corner, giving them a lower exit speed.
As you've said though, this is a technique from an era when cars had far less grip, and so had to be balanced more delicately. Today's F1 cars have so many electronic aids, and so much grip, that drivers can go charging towards the apex, stamp on the brakes, then give it full power and let the traction control/electronic diff/etc etc sort it all out. Shame.
As you've said though, this is a technique from an era when cars had far less grip, and so had to be balanced more delicately. Today's F1 cars have so many electronic aids, and so much grip, that drivers can go charging towards the apex, stamp on the brakes, then give it full power and let the traction control/electronic diff/etc etc sort it all out. Shame.
#6
Ross Stonefeld
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Posted 03 January 2006 - 12:37
Physics havent changed though, and overall the first guy off the brakes is still the fastest. It'd be interesting to have Fat Boy (who is a winning open wheel engineer) give his take.
#7
stevewf1
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Posted 03 January 2006 - 12:42
This quote is from the "In the Hot Seat" feature of the July 2004 issue of MotorSport, where questions were submitted to Jackie Stewart:
Question: "People today talk about the speed you carry into a corner as being what sorts out the great from the good. Was it so in your day?"
Stewart: "Oh yes. It's not when you brake but when you take them off that counts. Most people don't understand that."
Question: "People today talk about the speed you carry into a corner as being what sorts out the great from the good. Was it so in your day?"
Stewart: "Oh yes. It's not when you brake but when you take them off that counts. Most people don't understand that."
#8
MonzaDriver
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Posted 03 January 2006 - 14:53
Originally posted by James Page
As you've said though, this is a technique from an era when cars had far less grip, and so had to be balanced more delicately. Today's F1 cars have so many electronic aids, and so much grip, that drivers can go charging towards the apex, stamp on the brakes, then give it full power and let the traction control/electronic diff/etc etc sort it all out. Shame.
Yes James, and in reading your explanation it's sound more like videogame.
Than driving.
MonzaDriver.
#9
Keir
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Posted 03 January 2006 - 15:11
I guess that all those "Trail Brakers" are a bunch of punters ??
#10
Ross Stonefeld
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Posted 03 January 2006 - 15:38
Depends what you consider 'trail braking'
#11
Keir
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Posted 03 January 2006 - 15:50
Happy New Year, Ross !! 
Trail brakers, Dan Gurney, for one !!
Trail brakers, Dan Gurney, for one !!
#12
Ross Stonefeld
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Posted 03 January 2006 - 16:07
Thanks for the clarification 
#13
theunions
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Posted 03 January 2006 - 23:37
I got the DVD for Christmas also.
Does anyone know:
1. why the menu layouts are so screwed up?
2. more importantly, why there was zero mention, even in the extras, of Jackie's brief but quite successful stint in USAC? Even the shots of Helen's scrapbooks do not show this.
Does anyone know:
1. why the menu layouts are so screwed up?
2. more importantly, why there was zero mention, even in the extras, of Jackie's brief but quite successful stint in USAC? Even the shots of Helen's scrapbooks do not show this.
#14
Geoff E
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Posted 04 January 2006 - 09:20
There is a link to a "New Scientist" article relating to JYS' driving style in this thread
http://forums.atlasf...t AND scientist
Re the DVD - it is also part of a boxed set (RRP about £135) "Racing through time - Grand Prix Legends"
Fangio
G Hill
Moss
Murray's F1 Greats
Enzo Ferrari
Hunt
Clark
Stewart
I managed to get the set a few months ago for £23 (inclusive of postage) from Price Drop TV, a UK TV auction channel.
http://forums.atlasf...t AND scientist
Re the DVD - it is also part of a boxed set (RRP about £135) "Racing through time - Grand Prix Legends"
Fangio
G Hill
Moss
Murray's F1 Greats
Enzo Ferrari
Hunt
Clark
Stewart
I managed to get the set a few months ago for £23 (inclusive of postage) from Price Drop TV, a UK TV auction channel.
#15
MonzaDriver
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Posted 05 January 2006 - 10:23
Dear members my question to Graham Gould,
was not exactly about trail braking, but more in general witch tips Jackie Stewart inherited from Jim Clark.
About trail braking, or to brake from turn in point toward the apex, with the intention to balance the car through weight transfer, it is explained by Clark himself in the book
" Jim Clark at the wheel"
Made with the collaboration of the same Graham Gould !!!
In a part of this book Clark speak about Stewart and another advice he give to him.
Ciao to all.
MonzaDriver.
was not exactly about trail braking, but more in general witch tips Jackie Stewart inherited from Jim Clark.
About trail braking, or to brake from turn in point toward the apex, with the intention to balance the car through weight transfer, it is explained by Clark himself in the book
" Jim Clark at the wheel"
Made with the collaboration of the same Graham Gould !!!
In a part of this book Clark speak about Stewart and another advice he give to him.
Ciao to all.
MonzaDriver.
#16
David McKinney
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Posted 05 January 2006 - 12:35
Who's Graham Gould?
#17
MonzaDriver
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Posted 05 January 2006 - 13:10
Graham Gauld ( Gould was a bad mistake sorry !!!)
is a writer that made a lot of books about Jim Clark.
Above all the only autobiography of Clark " Jim Clark at the wheel" was written with Graham Gauld,
so I am sure he know a lot about him.
MonzaDriver.
is a writer that made a lot of books about Jim Clark.
Above all the only autobiography of Clark " Jim Clark at the wheel" was written with Graham Gauld,
so I am sure he know a lot about him.
MonzaDriver.
#18
Graham Gauld
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Posted 05 January 2006 - 14:52
Thanks for the correction : For the record Gauld is the Scottish spelling of the English name, Gould. The Gaulds come from the Aberdeen area and we seem to have been the long term offspring of the viking hordes of long ago.
#19
Sharman
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Posted 05 January 2006 - 16:37
Originally posted by MonzaDriver
Dear members my question to Graham Gould,
was not exactly about trail braking, but more in general witch tips Jackie Stewart inherited from Jim Clark.
About trail braking, or to brake from turn in point toward the apex, with the intention to balance the car through weight transfer, it is explained by Clark himself in the book
" Jim Clark at the wheel"
Made with the collaboration of the same Graham Gould !!!
In a part of this book Clark speak about Stewart and another advice he give to him.
Ciao to all.
MonzaDriver.
Tongue in cheek!!! JYS inherited Wizard rather than Witch tips from Jimmy
