An American World war II bomb has been found at the racetrack at Le Mans in western France, local authorities said on Tuesday. The 250kg bomb was discovered during work on the hospitality area next to the track. It was to be made safe by disposal experts on Wednesday, according to the Automobile Club of the West (ACO) which operates the race track. A similar bomb was found near the same spot seven years ago, the ACO said.
I recall similar finds at Monza a year or two ago. One wonders how many more are buried around Europe, waiting for the bull-dozer to uncover them.
WW II bomb found at LeMans
Started by
WGD706
, Jan 11 2006 19:04
27 replies to this topic
Advertisement
#2
Gary C
-
- 5,571 posts
- Joined: January 01
Member
Posted 11 January 2006 - 19:05
hundreds, if not thousands !
#3
philippe charuest
-
- 701 posts
- Joined: March 01
Member
Posted 11 January 2006 - 19:23
yes thousands every year ,many from ww1 too
#4
Doug Nye
-
- 11,535 posts
- Joined: February 02
Member
Posted 11 January 2006 - 21:18
My photographer pal Geoff Goddard (who DETESTS Le Mans) thinks he might have left it there - a few years ago - and regrets it hasn't gone off. When there was a request for public input on historical characters worthy of appearance on British bank notes he suggested Air Marshal 'Bomber' Harris on a note called a 'Thousand Pounder'.
Insincere apologies to those of PC persuasion...
DCN
Insincere apologies to those of PC persuasion...
DCN
#5
RS2000
-
- 2,573 posts
- Joined: January 05
Member
Posted 11 January 2006 - 21:44
Coincidently, the forum of a Kent-based motor club is discussing the liberty ship Richard Montgomery that today still lies in shallow water just off Sheerness with several hundred 250lb bombs in the holds.
#6
Ray Bell
-
- 80,270 posts
- Joined: December 99
Member
Posted 11 January 2006 - 21:48
One of my vivid memories from my visit there in 1981 was sitting on a mound along the Mulsanne Straight, out of the public area, more or less in a forest...
John Harvey and I were talking about connections the place had with WW2, that men had fought and died on this ground. It had that air of foreboding about it.
John Harvey and I were talking about connections the place had with WW2, that men had fought and died on this ground. It had that air of foreboding about it.
#7
Catalina Park
-
- 6,779 posts
- Joined: July 01
Member
Posted 12 January 2006 - 06:07
I think that there would be a lot of bombs laying around old race circuits as quite a few were military bases at one time or another. I recall that Silverstone had one found during earthworks a few years back.
I was told that Hidden Valley circuit in Darwin could have a few as well.
I was told that Hidden Valley circuit in Darwin could have a few as well.
#8
HDonaldCapps
-
- 2,482 posts
- Joined: April 05
Member
Posted 12 January 2006 - 08:22
In 1958, as we were enjoying a stop for a picnic along the roadside, we had the horrifying experience of seeing a farmer plowing his field get killed when he detonated a bomb of some sort -- a very large one from the effects. It also killed the oxen he was using to do the plowing. I don't recall the exact location, but it was near Reims. It was a terrifying thing to witness. We had chatted with him when we stopped and then not long afterward....
We used to find no end of things left over from The Last War when I was growing up in Germany -- we used to play in old bunkers all the time or find shell casings (and even bullets and shells) in some of the places we played. After a playmate got injured when a round went off (...there but for the Grace of God...), we were the EOD's best helpers; like hogs and truffles, we led them to no end of stuff over time.
During the rebuilding, they used to find UXO all the time when they would be clearing the blocks. Even in the 1950s there were still plenty of UXO to make it not uncommon for EOD to stay very busy defusing or removing bombs, shells, what have you.
As for Geoff, I think that I can sympathize with his position on the event in question; between the 1955 race and the later (1970s) realization as to what a generally unpleasant experience the whole thing was I can fully appreciate his thinking -- no way am I ever going back.
I do like his thoughts about the bank notes....
We used to find no end of things left over from The Last War when I was growing up in Germany -- we used to play in old bunkers all the time or find shell casings (and even bullets and shells) in some of the places we played. After a playmate got injured when a round went off (...there but for the Grace of God...), we were the EOD's best helpers; like hogs and truffles, we led them to no end of stuff over time.
During the rebuilding, they used to find UXO all the time when they would be clearing the blocks. Even in the 1950s there were still plenty of UXO to make it not uncommon for EOD to stay very busy defusing or removing bombs, shells, what have you.
As for Geoff, I think that I can sympathize with his position on the event in question; between the 1955 race and the later (1970s) realization as to what a generally unpleasant experience the whole thing was I can fully appreciate his thinking -- no way am I ever going back.
I do like his thoughts about the bank notes....
#9
doc knutsen
-
- 734 posts
- Joined: May 03
Member
Posted 12 January 2006 - 08:48
Just for the record, there is no way anyone can keep me from going to Le Mans for the 24 Heures.
Along with the Goodwood Revival, it is *the* motor racing occasion of the year for my friends and me. We have been going every year since 1986, depite the fact that driving south to Le Mans from our little neck of the woods takes 24 hours of non-stop driving...and having seen the finish, we face another 24 hours on the road before we are home again.
BTW, for those who went 20 years ago, I have found that campsites, showers and toilets have improved enormously since the mid Eighties.
By tradition, our party of 15 or so travel in our team transporter, and on the Friday of race week we go around the circuit on pedal bikes, the enjoy the FOC pit lane visit in the afternoon. Friday night we have our traditional open-air six- or seven course dinner, which starts around eight and carries on until coffee and cognac is served around two ayem, by which time we are joined by an international crowd more often than not. Le Mans is a wonderful experience, and IMO not to be missed by any red-blooded enthusiast.
Along with the Goodwood Revival, it is *the* motor racing occasion of the year for my friends and me. We have been going every year since 1986, depite the fact that driving south to Le Mans from our little neck of the woods takes 24 hours of non-stop driving...and having seen the finish, we face another 24 hours on the road before we are home again.
BTW, for those who went 20 years ago, I have found that campsites, showers and toilets have improved enormously since the mid Eighties.
By tradition, our party of 15 or so travel in our team transporter, and on the Friday of race week we go around the circuit on pedal bikes, the enjoy the FOC pit lane visit in the afternoon. Friday night we have our traditional open-air six- or seven course dinner, which starts around eight and carries on until coffee and cognac is served around two ayem, by which time we are joined by an international crowd more often than not. Le Mans is a wonderful experience, and IMO not to be missed by any red-blooded enthusiast.
#10
Darren Galpin
-
- 2,322 posts
- Joined: April 00
Member
Posted 12 January 2006 - 08:54
Brings back a childhood memory while on a beach not from from Lyme Regis in the UK. There was a circular black thing floating in the water, so my brother decided it would be good fun to through pebbles at it. After the first direct hit it started to hiss. A few hits later it detonated with an almighty bang and sank without trace. Never did work out what it was - it was far too small for the mine's you would see in the war films.
#11
Nordic
-
- 278 posts
- Joined: September 02
Member
Posted 12 January 2006 - 09:02
http://www.geocities...072/FGnorm.html
Here is some interesting reading as too why the Allied aircrew bombed Le Mans so often.
http://www.usaaf.net...l2/vol2pg18.htm
There was also a military camp around the aerodrome.
Jeumont Schneider factory was also close by. This was used during the WW2 as a test and production facility for Junkers engines.
For those with an interest there is a memorial near Arnage corner to a Halifax RCAF crew shot down in May 44 and now at rest in the Le Mans west Cemetery
Here is some interesting reading as too why the Allied aircrew bombed Le Mans so often.
http://www.usaaf.net...l2/vol2pg18.htm
There was also a military camp around the aerodrome.
Jeumont Schneider factory was also close by. This was used during the WW2 as a test and production facility for Junkers engines.
For those with an interest there is a memorial near Arnage corner to a Halifax RCAF crew shot down in May 44 and now at rest in the Le Mans west Cemetery
#12
RTH
-
- 6,066 posts
- Joined: January 03
Member
Posted 12 January 2006 - 09:52
Originally posted by Doug Nye
My photographer pal Geoff Goddard (who DETESTS Le Mans) thinks he might have left it there - a few years ago - and regrets it hasn't gone off.
DCN
Oh dear, why does he think that about the most revered international sportscar race in the world with a history going back to 1923 , so dear to all our hearts ?
Is it the people ? the toilets ? the squalor of the campsites ? the dust? the mud ? the hours it takes to get out ? the unrelenting noise? the litter? the lack of basic facilities, the access denial restrictions to any points of interest? the annual quaint traditional hostility of the organisers to all the British entrants ? the miles of walking to see anything? the ancient local custom of fleecing the spectator at every bend and turn?
I'm sorry to hear he feels like that about this cherished institution so beloved by millions of us, that 300,000 attend , 60,000 of them British and tens of millions watch live on TV around the world.
Maybe he would start a campaign for a major international 24hr sports car race in England ?
At least the ACO have had the courage and tenacity to keep it going all these years even if in truth it could well do with being a very great deal more user friendly to its customers.
#13
BRG
-
- 25,951 posts
- Joined: September 99
Member
Posted 12 January 2006 - 10:09
That sounds a very accurate depiction of the typical Le Mans weekend.Originally posted by RTH
Is it the people ? the toilets ? the squalor of the campsites ? the dust? the mud ? the hours it takes to get out ? the unrelenting noise? the litter? the lack of basic facilities, the access denial restrictions to any points of interest? the annual quaint traditional hostility of the organisers to all the British entrants ? the miles of walking to see anything? the ancient local custom of fleecing the spectator at every bend and turn?
Of course it doesn't include the excitement, the spectacle, the ambience, the crepes Gran Marnier, the camaraderie, and the sheer thrill of being part of the greatest motorsporting event of the year.
#14
RS2000
-
- 2,573 posts
- Joined: January 05
Member
Posted 12 January 2006 - 10:54
Originally posted by Darren Galpin
Brings back a childhood memory while on a beach not from from Lyme Regis in the UK. There was a circular black thing floating in the water, so my brother decided it would be good fun to through pebbles at it. After the first direct hit it started to hiss. A few hits later it detonated with an almighty bang and sank without trace. Never did work out what it was - it was far too small for the mine's you would see in the war films.
Maybe thay was what Meryl Streep was looking for standing at Lyme Regis wearing that black cloak?
No sign the other day though.
#15
Darren Galpin
-
- 2,322 posts
- Joined: April 00
Member
Posted 12 January 2006 - 11:03
A low tide picture. You need to head more towards the wreck/Seaton to find the site of detonation. If I remember rightly, it would have been just under a foot in diameter. My grandfather rang up the coastguard later to find out what it could have been or if there was something that should have been done, and they just told us not to be so stupid as to throw stones at floating objects in future.......
#16
petefenelon
-
- 4,815 posts
- Joined: August 02
Member
Posted 12 January 2006 - 11:52
Originally posted by BRG
That sounds a very accurate depiction of the typical Le Mans weekend.
Of course it doesn't include the excitement, the spectacle, the ambience, the crepes Gran Marnier, the camaraderie, and the sheer thrill of being part of the greatest motorsporting event of the year.
The one thing Le Mans isn't, these days, is photogenic (at least not by day) -- but I can forgive that, because of the merguez + frites.
#17
Huw Jadvantich
-
- 602 posts
- Joined: July 04
Member
Posted 12 January 2006 - 12:03
That amazing account in Nordic's post is a stunning reminder of how drivers and spectators of that generation were relatively unmoved by our current notion of fatal accidents, and their relative disregard for safety. it gives a degree of relativativaty to our present day shock that ex pilot Hamilton should get in a racing car drunk (whether true or not). To him at that time comparing it to his activities ten years before it would have seemed positively pedestrian in terms of risk.
The account of lives lost and expensive machines destroyed on a daily basis is trotted out with the amount of emotion that a grocery stocktake would be today.
Even though that group of aircraftmen and their fabulous machines were a tiny part of what went on in those years, the scale of it is unimaginable today. Truly food for thought.
The Herrmanns, Schumachers and Webbers that lost their lives in that account were just numbers, but true heroes of inestimable courage, as were the pilots of their opponents.
It is an amazing piece of reading and sure focuses the mind on the 'problems' we have today.
As for going to the LeMans 24 hours, I think the difference is in whether you go as part of your job or of your own free will. Same as Monaco. I haven't been there enough times to get it out of my system since the early eighties. The mud dust and conditions are all just part of the experience.
Ive heard Everest isn't that pleasant but people still keep going, perhaps because they don't have to.
The account of lives lost and expensive machines destroyed on a daily basis is trotted out with the amount of emotion that a grocery stocktake would be today.
Even though that group of aircraftmen and their fabulous machines were a tiny part of what went on in those years, the scale of it is unimaginable today. Truly food for thought.
The Herrmanns, Schumachers and Webbers that lost their lives in that account were just numbers, but true heroes of inestimable courage, as were the pilots of their opponents.
It is an amazing piece of reading and sure focuses the mind on the 'problems' we have today.
As for going to the LeMans 24 hours, I think the difference is in whether you go as part of your job or of your own free will. Same as Monaco. I haven't been there enough times to get it out of my system since the early eighties. The mud dust and conditions are all just part of the experience.
Ive heard Everest isn't that pleasant but people still keep going, perhaps because they don't have to.
#18
bill moffat
-
- 1,411 posts
- Joined: October 02
Member
Posted 12 January 2006 - 12:41
Whilst we're on the subject, racing photographer Louis Klemantaski was employed during the war to take photographic images in the development of Barnes Wallis' bouncing bombs, not many people know that...
I seem to remember that Enzo once embarassed Peter Collins by complaining about the damage to the Ferrari factory inflicted by one of "his" bombs.
I seem to remember that Enzo once embarassed Peter Collins by complaining about the damage to the Ferrari factory inflicted by one of "his" bombs.
#19
ensign14
-
- 62,013 posts
- Joined: December 01
Member
Posted 12 January 2006 - 13:08
I thought Col Ronnie Hoare directed the bombers away from Maranello?Originally posted by bill moffat
I seem to remember that Enzo once embarassed Peter Collins by complaining about the damage to the Ferrari factory inflicted by one of "his" bombs.
Advertisement
#20
RS2000
-
- 2,573 posts
- Joined: January 05
Member
Posted 12 January 2006 - 14:46
Originally posted by bill moffat
in the development of Barnes Wallis' bouncing bombs
The first prototypes of which were tested in sight of Lyme Regis...
#21
philippe charuest
-
- 701 posts
- Joined: March 01
Member
Posted 12 January 2006 - 17:30
just did some googling in french to have some numbers about those bombs, the french mine clearing department have found in the last 60 years some 660000 bombs ,13.5 million mines, 24 million shells. 617 persons died in those clearing operation . more then 50% of those bomb are from WW1(la grande guerre) , the estimation is that 1 billion shell /"obus" were shot during the ww1 . 200 million during WW2 ,15 to 25 % didnt explode. the french government have to destroy 300 tons of those bombs every year . and now they have the ecologist on there back ;)
#22
Mal9444
-
- 1,292 posts
- Joined: December 05
Member
Posted 12 January 2006 - 21:12
Originally posted by Huw Jadvantich
[ To him at that time comparing it to his activities ten years before it would have seemed positively pedestrian in terms of risk. [/B]
Reminds me of the story of some sports journo who was interviewing Keith Miller (I think it was - anyway, an Aussie cricketer who had been a WWII fighter pilot). He was asking the cricketer (it was at a crucial stage of a test series) whether 'the pressure' got to him.
'Pressure? There is no pressure... It's a game, for Pete skate. Having an ME109 up your ass is pressure...'
or words to that effect.
BTW - it wasn't Meryl Streep on the end of the cobb at Lyme Regis in the black cloak - it was a female stunt double, wearing a wet suit under the cloak. I read somewhere that they set a post into the cobbles that she was attached to with a safety belt so she wouldn't blow away while the rest of the crew retreated to get the shot. It was a very windy day...
#23
Bernd
-
- 3,313 posts
- Joined: October 00
Member
Posted 12 January 2006 - 21:56
Yep it was Keith Miller, a true legend.
#24
WGD706
-
- 956 posts
- Joined: August 02
Member
Posted 12 January 2006 - 22:02
Originally posted by ensign14
I thought Col Ronnie Hoare directed the bombers away from Maranello?
Wasn't it Pat Hoare?...Doug Nye:"New Zealander Pat Hoare in his 4-cylinder Ferrari 'bitsa' assembled for him at Mr Ferrari's express order. Hoare had remarkable pull with The Old Man, the reason for which I have never really fathomed out. The best story I have heard is that Hoare was an officer with the New Zealand forces moving up through the leg of Italy during WW2 and he was able to call off an imminent artillery barrage against what turned out to be the Ferrari home and machine tool works at Maranello just before the trigger was pulled. Allowing for wartime mists and good old fashioned b-------t this could have been based upon some kindness allowed Mr Ferrari during the late-war occupation of Maranello and Modena. Certainly Hoare was fully up to speed upon OMF's pre-war record and if he was indeed with the Kiwi forces in wartime Italy he would have recognised all the names involved. Incidentally - this car survives (as Dave McK says) in the Dutch National Motor Museum today, and it wears the only known original Lancia-Ferrari D50-type tail cowl...as seen in this pic, Pat Hoare's special having been cobbled together for him by Ferrari's blokes, from immediately available bits."
http://forums.atlasf...?threadid=73387
http://forums.atlasf...?postid=1280997
#25
LittleChris
-
- 3,729 posts
- Joined: April 01
Member
Posted 12 January 2006 - 22:36
Originally posted by Darren Galpin
Brings back a childhood memory while on a beach not from from Lyme Regis in the UK. There was a circular black thing floating in the water, so my brother decided it would be good fun to through pebbles at it. After the first direct hit it started to hiss. A few hits later it detonated with an almighty bang and sank without trace. Never did work out what it was - it was far too small for the mine's you would see in the war films.
Hmm, I nearly drowned near Charmouth when I was young having become detached from an airbed which was black and circular and never seen again
#26
RS2000
-
- 2,573 posts
- Joined: January 05
Member
Posted 12 January 2006 - 23:00
Originally posted by LittleChris
Hmm, I nearly drowned near Charmouth when I was young having become detached from an airbed which was black and circular and never seen again :wave:
Unfortunately, not so many years ago, several school children in canoes on an adventure training course were not so lucky there.
To keep to the topic of historic motorsport, in two weeks time the premier remaining road rally in south west England, the Carpetbagger Rally, starts in Charmouth and has a section for historic cars within the limited (and oversubscribed) 60 car entry.
#27
Jim Thurman
-
- 7,277 posts
- Joined: February 01
Member
Posted 12 January 2006 - 23:49
Don's post reminds me that the problem isn't just in war zones
Growing up in San Diego, essentially a new town (Tierrasanta) was built on property that had been part of Camp Elliott. The area had been used extensively for training exercises and many live rounds were found, despite three sweeps. Kids would go down into the canyons adjacent to the housing and find them.
I still recall one incident c. 1976 where a teenager pulled a "prank" on his buddy by leaving what he throught was a dud mortar shell on the porch of his friend's house. Turned out it wasn't a dud and a Naval disposal unit had to detonate it.
As late as 1983, a couple of kids were killed when a live round went off. And last I heard, there were still site cleanup plans.
Growing up in San Diego, essentially a new town (Tierrasanta) was built on property that had been part of Camp Elliott. The area had been used extensively for training exercises and many live rounds were found, despite three sweeps. Kids would go down into the canyons adjacent to the housing and find them.
I still recall one incident c. 1976 where a teenager pulled a "prank" on his buddy by leaving what he throught was a dud mortar shell on the porch of his friend's house. Turned out it wasn't a dud and a Naval disposal unit had to detonate it.
As late as 1983, a couple of kids were killed when a live round went off. And last I heard, there were still site cleanup plans.
#28
TooTall
-
- 336 posts
- Joined: February 05
Member
Posted 13 January 2006 - 01:06
If you take the "back way" out of Laguna Seca, the road that exits the track behind the last turn, you drive through a couple of miles of what used to be Fort Ord. On both sides of the road are low fences with signs that say "No Trespassing - Danger - Unexploded Ordnance". I've always wanted one of those for the garage wall but I think I'll just leave them be.
Cheers,
Kurt
Cheers,
Kurt
