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Left hand gear changes

Started by f1steveuk , Jan 21 2006 18:34

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34 replies to this topic

#1 f1steveuk

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Posted 21 January 2006 - 18:34

Ok I did a search, and there's a discussion about who had the last left hand change, (BRM I thought), but that's not really my question. Why is it competition cars, or competition drivers seem to favour a right hand change. Until the advent of the "lazy, any one can match revs to gear change, semi automatic, automatic gear boxes", rally cars tended to be built as left hand drive, so that the driver used his left hand, single seaters tended to have right hand changes etc etc, but why, layout of linkage from the box? Usually as it fell to the driver's strongest hand in case the driver had to use a bit of "gentle pressure" ? I'm just curious.

#2 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 21 January 2006 - 18:43

A defacto world-wide standard since most cars in the world have the gearlever operated by the right hand?

#3 f1steveuk

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Posted 21 January 2006 - 19:18

Hardly!!! Sweden didn't switch 'till 1967, and baring in mind that the UK was considered the world centre in Grand Prix racing, e.g. construction, for a long time, that doesn't really fit in.

#4 Rob G

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Posted 21 January 2006 - 19:25

My theory is that the majority of the population is right-handed, and since gearshifting requires a certain manual dexterity it simply makes sense to put it on the right.

#5 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 21 January 2006 - 19:27

Originally posted by f1steveuk
Hardly!!! Sweden didn't switch 'till 1967, and baring in mind that the UK was considered the world centre in Grand Prix racing, e.g. construction, for a long time, that doesn't really fit in.

Lot of race cars built since 1967 ;)

#6 f1steveuk

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Posted 21 January 2006 - 19:39

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld

Lot of race cars built since 1967 ;)

Quite right, but when you actually look at the countries that still drive on the left, UK, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, South Africa etc, simple numbers may not be the answer!

#7 David Birchall

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Posted 21 January 2006 - 19:41

Look at the majority of 'Vintage' cars-they have r/h change and r/h drive!
David B

#8 f1steveuk

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Posted 21 January 2006 - 19:42

Originally posted by Rob G
My theory is that the majority of the population is right-handed, and since gearshifting requires a certain manual dexterity it simply makes sense to put it on the right.

I can see the thinking, but the "majority" right handers in the countries listed above, don't seem to have a problem with dexterity. Race wise I would have said the dexterity would be heeling and toeing, and timing shifts!

#9 f1steveuk

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Posted 21 January 2006 - 19:58

Originally posted by David Birchall
Look at the majority of 'Vintage' cars-they have r/h change and r/h drive!
David B

Well to confuse the issue! Four of the cars I used to demonstrate, 1926 Red label Bentley, right hand drive, right hand gear lever and central throttle. 1933 Alfa Romeo 8C 2600 right hand drive, left hand gearchange, central throttle. 1904 Mercedes 15 litre GP car, right hand drive, right hand gearchange, central throttle, 1926 Lyon type Bugatti 35, right hand drive, right hand gear change, right hand throttle. Then get into the 50s it all starts to change, competition car wise, and more so into the 60s, and by the 70s, 90% of competition cars are either right hand gear change, or engineered to be, while road cars follow the trend created by the country of their origin. Final example, Ford GT 40, right hand drive (Slough UK built) but right hand change.

#10 Twin Window

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Posted 21 January 2006 - 20:07

Originally posted by f1steveuk

...rally cars tended to be built as left hand drive, so that the driver used his left hand...

#11 f1steveuk

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Posted 21 January 2006 - 20:32

Originally posted by Twin Window

Thank you Stuart, I see my error!!

Rally cars tended to be built as left hand drive so the driver used his right hand (oooppppsss).

I did tackle a guy who worked for Ford when there was a Focus was parked up. "Why the drivers seat on the left?". The answer was "so the driver can use his right hand to change gear". My response, "why?", "I don't know, we just seem too", and this in the times of a lever you just bang forward!

#12 2F-001

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Posted 21 January 2006 - 20:37

Steve - just to throw a curved ball into your list of examples... do you recall the 'Formula Classic' cars of a few years ago?
Didn't they have the gearchange in the centre?!

#13 Gary C

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Posted 21 January 2006 - 20:41

no wonder they weren't successful then!!

#14 2F-001

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Posted 21 January 2006 - 20:45

I don't think that needing to fiddle around between one's legs was what actually finished them - wasn't there some insurmountable problem with the engines? I can't remember now if an 'official' reason was proffered.

I have this hazy memory of seeing Martin Donnelly race one at Donington. Could I have actually seen that - or did I imagine it?

#15 f1steveuk

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Posted 21 January 2006 - 21:09

Originally posted by 2F-001
Steve - just to throw a curved ball into your list of examples... do you recall the 'Formula Classic' cars of a few years ago?
Didn't they have the gearchange in the centre?!

I've driven a couple of older cars with a gear stick that came up through your legs, not the best solution. One a Ford also had the strangest brake/clutch pedal. Push with the toe, brakes, down with the heel, clutch!

#16 2F-001

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Posted 21 January 2006 - 21:13

That would be enough to drive me onto public transport.

#17 f1steveuk

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Posted 21 January 2006 - 21:14

Originally posted by 2F-001
That would be enough to drive me onto public transport.

Would have been funny, but it was a racing car!!!!! :eek:

#18 Macca

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Posted 21 January 2006 - 21:21

Originally posted by 2F-001
I don't think that needing to fiddle around between one's legs was what actually finished them - wasn't there some insurmountable problem with the engines? I can't remember now if an 'official' reason was proffered.

I have this hazy memory of seeing Martin Donnelly race one at Donington. Could I have actually seen that - or did I imagine it?

No, you didn't imagine it - I was there too, and he won by miles.

Paul M

#19 fausto

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Posted 21 January 2006 - 21:28

Ross Brawn penned Jaguar XJR14 (right hand drive car) had a left hand gear lever, for some technical/packaging reason I can't really recall...

#20 WDH74

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Posted 21 January 2006 - 22:41

Just to toss a small wrench into the works, but wasn't the GT40 "road car" (I forget what mark it was, but they built like four or five of them) have right hand steering and the gearlever in the center? ISTR reading that they used the same sequential gearbox as the racing cars, but the shifter was moved to the center to aid regular drivers, who likely wouldn't be able to figure out the shifter on the right in a RHD market. Is that correct?

-William

#21 zac510

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Posted 22 January 2006 - 01:04

It seems to me like just a bad hangover from the past. You could ask why our road cars still have imperial diameter wheels and tyres too!

I know TNF doesn't cover drag racing, but they prefer LHD for weight balance reasons.

#22 doc knutsen

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Posted 22 January 2006 - 12:29

Most racing cars came with Hewlands, and Hewlands had the selector rod emerging from the rh side of the rear gearbox cover. Making a linkage go across the gearbox/engine bay would be a fiddly bit of engineering, and lead to more UJs that will get worn and decrease the precision of the linkage.

#23 jgm

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Posted 22 January 2006 - 13:50

Wasn't Hewland's original gearbox casing based on the VW Beetle's casing? This presumably would have been designed primarily for a right hand gear change.

#24 Rainer Nyberg

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Posted 22 January 2006 - 13:59

Originally posted by f1steveuk
Sweden didn't switch 'till 1967

Yes the change from left hand motoring to right hand took place in '67, but we have always shifted gears with the right hand.

So...the steering wheel was on the left hand side, so this made overtaking a bit tricky back in the old days...

Sweden used to import a lot of American cars, so that might have contributed to the left hand driving position.

#25 Terry Walker

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Posted 22 January 2006 - 14:05

VW gear selector setup was designed for a centre gearlever, whether rhd or lhd. I guess Mr Hewland liked a right hand change and designed his adaption to suit. I've seen a few Formula Vees, mostly with right hand change even though they have freedom of choice.

As a right-hand-drive operator, I used to think a right-hand gearchange would be very difficult to learn after a lifetime using the left hand to change gears, but then I started driving elderly Bentleys with RH change and it was a cinch. I didn't have to think twice about it.

Interesting though. The why? remains unresolved.

#26 Roger Clark

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Posted 22 January 2006 - 14:51

Surely the tradition for right hand gearboxes dates from well before the Hewland era, to the time of front engines, in fact. In those days the dominant makers of racing cars came from countries who drove on the right..

It has already been mentioned that in vintage times many right hand drive sports cars had right hand, external, gear levers. The same was true of may two seater grand prix cars of the twenties. I always assumed that this was because the cars were quite narrow by later standards and there wasn't room for the driver, a passenger and a gear lever between them.

Once a tradition is established, it takes a long time to overthrow it - at least, it used to.

In Britain, the right hand drive, right hand gear lever combination lasted until well after the war. The last such car I can remember was the Riley.

#27 David Beard

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Posted 22 January 2006 - 15:39

Originally posted by Terry Walker
VW gear selector setup was designed for a centre gearlever, whether rhd or lhd. I guess Mr Hewland liked a right hand change and designed his adaption to suit. I've seen a few Formula Vees, mostly with right hand change even though they have freedom of choice.

In the VW car the gearbox was in front of the engine, of course. The linkage didn't have to get round anything to connect to a lever in the centre of the car. It all becomes more difficult with a mid engined car..but if the push me pull you thingy comes out of the box on the right hand side of the car, that's going to be the easiest side of the car to have the lever.

The front engined single seater racing car with which I am most familiar has the change lever on the left...

#28 Roger Clark

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Posted 22 January 2006 - 16:05

Originally posted by David Beard

The front engined single seater racing car with which I am most familiar has the change lever on the left...

Was that because the carburetors are on the left on an FPF?

#29 David Beard

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Posted 22 January 2006 - 16:17

Originally posted by Roger Clark

Was that because the carburetors are on the left on an FPF?

Sorry Roger, how do they effect the gearbox?

#30 Roger Clark

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Posted 22 January 2006 - 18:02

Originally posted by David Beard

Sorry Roger, how do they effect the gearbox?

When Chapman decided to lie the engine on its side he needed to have the carburettors on the top. This meant that the crankshaft, propshaft and gearbox were on the left.

#31 RTH

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Posted 22 January 2006 - 18:14

Originally posted by David Beard

In the VW car the gearbox was in front of the engine, of course. The linkage didn't have to get round anything to connect to a lever in the centre of the car. It all becomes more difficult with a mid engined car..but if the push me pull you thingy comes out of the box on the right hand side of the car, that's going to be the easiest side of the car to have the lever.

The front engined single seater racing car with which I am most familiar has the change lever on the left...

I think you are quite right David , as far and away the dominant transmission supplier in the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s their influence ( rather like microsoft's ) set an industry standard.
As well as being turned round front to back the VW beetle casing was turned upside down as well to get forward gears bringing the selector shaft out bottom right. (Hewlands own parts ) Later Hewland 'boxes copied the original basic layout.

#32 David Beard

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Posted 22 January 2006 - 18:49

Originally posted by Roger Clark

When Chapman decided to lie the engine on its side he needed to have the carburettors on the top. This meant that the crankshaft, propshaft and gearbox were on the left.

Roger, correct as usual

I'm not sure whether "needed" is quite right, but that was certainly the obvious way to lean the motor. Perhaps a shorter manifiold up-draughting into the inlet port would have worked if the engine had been inclined in the other direction? Of course, after just one car in the original "laydown" configuration, they weren't going to mirror the queerbox to accomodate much less of a tilt in the opposite direction, as subsequently adopted...

#33 doc knutsen

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Posted 22 January 2006 - 19:10

Originally posted by jgm
Wasn't Hewland's original gearbox casing based on the VW Beetle's casing? This presumably would have been designed primarily for a right hand gear change.

It was indeed based on the Beetle casing, but turned upside down because in the Veedub, the gearbox is ahead of the engine, pointing towards the front of the car. Leaving it right side up would leave us with 4 reverse speeds, and one forward speed.
The end cover of the VW based Hewlands was a Hewland design, as were the hot movable and revolving bits inside the box. It was designed with the selector shaft coming out of the right hand side of the gearbox, and subsequent Sixties and Seventies Hewland designs used the same basic layout, although with bespoke cast magnesium casings (FT, FG, LG series etc etc etc.)

Given the location of the selector shaft, the gear lever location is a packaging question. As I said in my initial posting, engineering a crossover linkage is a pain (been there, done that) and you also have to have some sort of tunnel to the driver's left side, to support the gear lever mechanism. This would force the driver laterally in the chassis (on a sports racer) rather than the ideal middle of the chassis, much better to use the side pod or the rh lateral cockpit wall to carry the selector mechanism. On a single seater, this would not apply, but the crossover shaft would be an even bigger pain due to the space constraints.

#34 T54

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Posted 23 January 2006 - 02:45

The plain truth is that the left hand for men fanatics of racing automobiles is for a completely different use since the wives are long gone. Hence, the need for carefully protecting it and right-hand gear change. See? :stoned:

OK you can ban me now... :blush:

#35 Bonde

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Posted 23 January 2006 - 11:36

Just to add my tuppence worth (I hope) on the VW type 1 gearbox:

Numerous cars, not least all Formula Vees, have run (and do run) with the VW Type 1 'box in the 'right side up' position - the avoidance of 4 reverse and 1 forward speed is simply accomplished by transposing the crown wheel to the opposite side of the diff housing.

The early Hewlands (e.g. for the Lola Mk3) used the 'straight out' linkage that is still used on Formula Vees, so it could have gone to either side with that arrangement. However, when inverted, the Type 1 reverse gear 'blister' on the housing tail cone is on the left, making it easier to route the linkage to the right. I've seen Vees with either left or right hand change (most of the latter in Europe and US), even though they have the 'reverse 'blister' on the right, as Vees run the box 'right side up'.

IIRC, VW Type 2 transporters with drop-down gears at the hubs had the crown wheel on the opposite side relative to that of the Type 1 saloon - I've heard stories of mechanics being used to the type 1 accidentally assembling Type 2 transmissions as it were a Type 1 with the resulting 4 reverse/1 forward speed.

I speculate that the VW Type 1 'box was inverted by Hewland and others (IIRC, Hewlands weren't the first to use the VW 'box, or casing, on a F Junior) just as much in order to match the clutch shaft and drive shafts with a lowered engine with dry sump lubrication - transposing the crown wheel would not have been a problem, but would not enable running the clutch shaft below the drive shaft flanges.

The issue of Formula Junior (and Cooper F1) 'upside down' versus transposed crownwheel choice would also have applied to Citroën and Renault 'boxes, as these were also mounted behind the engine in the donor cars. I believe tha Vw and the French 'boxes were run either 'right side up' or upside down, depending on make of Formula Junior.