Archie Scott Brown or Archie Scott-Brown?
David Bruce Brown or David Bruce-Brown?
It's always been my understanding, rightly or wrongly, that Archie had a hyphen, and David did not.
The 1957 Motor Racing Directory entry for Archie has the hyphen.
David Bruce Brown, I once gathered, unlike most Americans, used his middle name as his everyday handle, that is, he was known as Bruce.
Or was Bruce Brown one of those rare people who, like Arthur Conan Doyle, had a two-word surname without a hyphen?
Hyphens ...
Started by
Terry Walker
, Mar 02 2006 11:45
11 replies to this topic
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#2
Ross Stonefeld
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Posted 02 March 2006 - 12:00
hmmm
Im going based purely on logic, which is where most ideas fall apart. If its three names with no hyphen, its three distinct names. First, Middle, Last. With hypen, its three names but making up two. First name, Double-Surname.
so im Ross Marshall Stonefeld, but would be Ross Stonefeld-Ecclestone?
or "Bernie's in law"
or "prat"
Im going based purely on logic, which is where most ideas fall apart. If its three names with no hyphen, its three distinct names. First, Middle, Last. With hypen, its three names but making up two. First name, Double-Surname.
so im Ross Marshall Stonefeld, but would be Ross Stonefeld-Ecclestone?
or "Bernie's in law"
or "prat"
#3
Terry Walker
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Posted 02 March 2006 - 12:04
Conan Doyle really did have a double surname with no hyphen, although I haven't seen a copy of the birth certificate to prove it. What few references I have read on him all say so, but of course they all could be wrong.
#4
Tim Murray
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Posted 02 March 2006 - 12:42
On Scott Brown (or Scott-Brown) this and subsequent posts in an earlier thread might be of interest:
http://forums.autosp...3057#post863057
The TNF consensus in this old thread would seem to support Bruce-Brown with a hyphen.
http://forums.autosp...y=&pagenumber=1
http://forums.autosp...3057#post863057
The TNF consensus in this old thread would seem to support Bruce-Brown with a hyphen.
http://forums.autosp...y=&pagenumber=1
#5
Terry Walker
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Posted 02 March 2006 - 13:12
Thanks for that - in the thread, Jimmy Piget cites the actual birth certificate of William Archibald Scott Brown, son of plain Mr Bown. No hyphen. That seems authoritative, and yet practically all the press. including the Directory in mentioned, inserted the hyphen.
Bruce Brown seems open to debate still. as the contemporary press seemed to insert or leave out the hyphen even in the same article, and sometimes referred to him by surname as "Brown". Probably a hyphen, but only probably.
Mind you, even a birth certificate isn't really authoritative. My grandmother had twin older brothers, and their surnames were spelt differently in their birth certificates! Chappell / Chappel. The twin who had one "l" invariably spelled his name with two, same as all his 10 brothers and sisters, as well as his parents.
Bruce Brown seems open to debate still. as the contemporary press seemed to insert or leave out the hyphen even in the same article, and sometimes referred to him by surname as "Brown". Probably a hyphen, but only probably.
Mind you, even a birth certificate isn't really authoritative. My grandmother had twin older brothers, and their surnames were spelt differently in their birth certificates! Chappell / Chappel. The twin who had one "l" invariably spelled his name with two, same as all his 10 brothers and sisters, as well as his parents.
#6
Darren Galpin
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Posted 02 March 2006 - 13:14
Even the contemporary press in the US couldn't agree on whether there was a hyphen or not for Bruce-Brown.
#7
Andrew Kitson
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Posted 02 March 2006 - 13:39
I always thought it was Archie Scott-Brown until recently but realise now there is not a hyphen.
However, looking at the photos in 'Archie and the Listers' there is a picture of Archie outside his garage, the 'Autodel' garage on the A604 near Cambridge, (still there as a £5 hand car wash centre on the A14 opposite the Cambridge services) and 'Scott-Brown' can be seen on the sign above him. Page 119.
However, looking at the photos in 'Archie and the Listers' there is a picture of Archie outside his garage, the 'Autodel' garage on the A604 near Cambridge, (still there as a £5 hand car wash centre on the A14 opposite the Cambridge services) and 'Scott-Brown' can be seen on the sign above him. Page 119.
#8
Terry Walker
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Posted 02 March 2006 - 13:51
Well, that puts a spoke in my wheel!
However, there is no reason at all why Archie didn't use Scott-Brown all his all-too-short adult life, in which case it WAS his name. You could then (I don't know about today) change your name simply by usage (provided there was no intent to defraud).
You could make it more official by deed poll, but that was not legally essential.
No doubt Archie Scott-Brown commissioned the sign on his garage; no doubt he told the painter what was to go on it. And if the painter put in that hyphen himself (why would he?), and Archie Scott-Brown was NOT using the hyphen, then he would have had it removed.
I think we can safely adhere to his own usage.
As to Bruce-Brown, I'm not entirely convinced. (Not that it matters, really, except when I'm in an anorak mood.)
Anyway, said former garage is on my TNF Tourist Guide thread, too (thanks Mr Kitson!)
However, there is no reason at all why Archie didn't use Scott-Brown all his all-too-short adult life, in which case it WAS his name. You could then (I don't know about today) change your name simply by usage (provided there was no intent to defraud).
You could make it more official by deed poll, but that was not legally essential.
No doubt Archie Scott-Brown commissioned the sign on his garage; no doubt he told the painter what was to go on it. And if the painter put in that hyphen himself (why would he?), and Archie Scott-Brown was NOT using the hyphen, then he would have had it removed.
I think we can safely adhere to his own usage.
As to Bruce-Brown, I'm not entirely convinced. (Not that it matters, really, except when I'm in an anorak mood.)
Anyway, said former garage is on my TNF Tourist Guide thread, too (thanks Mr Kitson!)
#9
Vitesse2
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Posted 02 March 2006 - 16:06
The signwriter who never made a mistake has yet to be born: not a hyphen, but I've seen pictures of the Le Mans pits with a sign saying "Chenard & Walker"!Originally posted by Andrew Kitson
..... 'Scott-Brown' can be seen on the sign above him. Page 119.
as Darren points out, the contemporary press were divided on Bruce Brown/Bruce-Brown. I'm inclined to go with the hyphen there.
But not in Parry Thomas or Gordon England.
#10
Vicuna
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Posted 02 March 2006 - 17:38
This is not meant to be in bad taste but - did ASBsign many autographs?
#11
kayemod
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Posted 02 March 2006 - 20:51
Originally posted by Vicuna
This is not meant to be in bad taste but - did ASBsign many autographs?
Not sure that would prove anything if he did. If you normally used a hyphen in your surname, you probably wouldn't bother when signing it, especially as a scribbled autograph. In my experience, there are no rules for this kind of thing, some people with double-surnames like to use a hyphen, and some don't, it's that simple.
#12
Twin Window
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Posted 02 March 2006 - 21:05
Nor is this, but I'm rather proud of my [Brands Hatch, October 1972] Frank Williams autograph.Originally posted by Vicuna
This is not meant to be in bad taste...
And not because such things are sadly irreplaceable these days, but rather more so because it simply says 'Frank'. I liked that then, and I appreciate it all the more so as time goes by.
