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Wet races; which were the best ones?

Started by Sergio Sultani , Oct 24 2006 12:25

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55 replies to this topic

#1 Sergio Sultani

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Posted 24 October 2006 - 12:25

Hi friends,

In your opinion, which drivers had been the best in F1 rain races since 1950 until 2006 ?
Somebody has a special commentary the respect on years 50 ?

Thank you,
Sergio Sultani.

#2 Gary Davies

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Posted 24 October 2006 - 12:57

Gosh, I don't know. But I wish I'd been at the Intercontinental race at Silverstone in 1961. I was at the International Trophy in 1962 and that was bloody marvellous.

What a race the 1962 German Grand Prix must have been! Not just because of the race long dice but to see Jim Clark's Herculean but ultimately unsuccessful effort.

And then ... there was, somehow, wonderful karma about Jean-Piere Beltoise's great drive at Monaco in 1972.

I have difficulty recalling any great detail of recent times but I think I would have got a lot from being at Suzuka in 1994, a terrific win by Damon Hill is soaking conditions in which he genuinely beat you know who...

As an aside, there's something pleasingly primordial about spectating at a good race in wet conditions. Sure, you get uncomfortably wet and perhaps take on the appearance of a drowned rat but perhaps the sense of having fought through the day brings some distant sense of affinity with the drivers. And then there's the trudge back to the car and the change into the spare dry clothes. At Silverstone there was always the added spice of putting one's skill to the test by attempting to exit the car park without getting bogged!

#3 Glengavel

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Posted 24 October 2006 - 13:00

Stewart at the Nurburgring in 1968
Senna at Donington in 1993

#4 Keir

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Posted 24 October 2006 - 13:06

BOAC 1000 - 1970 - Rodriguez - Brands Hatch - Porsche 917 ! 'nuff said !!!

#5 kevthedrummer

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Posted 24 October 2006 - 13:30

Monaco 1984 - Senna and Bellof both give notice of their talents.

Portugal 1985 - Senna confirms Monaco wasn't a one-off :smoking:

#6 Big Jim

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Posted 24 October 2006 - 13:37

Well, it wasn't actually the race, but Jody and Gilles qualifying for the 1979 USGP at Watkins Glen in the rain was absolutely AWESOME!!!

#7 Paul Parker

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Posted 24 October 2006 - 16:46

I suppose this is subjective or at least it should depend on actually being there.

I was at Brands Hatch in 1970 and it gets my vote as well.

#8 RTH

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Posted 24 October 2006 - 16:57

Portugal 1985 ?

Race of Champions Silverstone 1978 ?

#9 James Page

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Posted 24 October 2006 - 17:35

Originally posted by Glengavel
Senna at Donington in 1993

Senna always maintained that Portugal in 1985 was better, simply because he didn't have traction control.

If it doesn't have to be races we've seen, I'd go with Keir's choice of Rodriguez at Brands Hatch. If it does, on the other hand, I'm afraid I'm restricted to more recent events. It might not count as nostalgia, but we watched the 1997 Belgian Grand Prix from Pouhon, about halfway round the lap. Schumacher came past in the early stages, and then it went quiet. He was light years quicker than everyone else, and even though I'm not a fan of his, it was very impressive.

#10 Stoatspeed

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Posted 24 October 2006 - 17:54

Hey, chaps, we may be missing the actual heart of the questions here ....

Originally posted by Sergio Sultani
In your opinion, which drivers had been the best in F1 rain races since 1950 until 2006 ?

I think our friend might be looking for the "rain masters" overall rather than singling out single-race results ...

If so, then I think Senna gets a good shot based on multiple performances in wet or part-wet races. As mentioned, he also raced in both pre- and post-traction control cars.
Although I didn't personally see him race F1 that often, Jacky Ickx was known for his memorable drives in the wet, and more recently Reubens Barrichello has been a class act (remember Germany 2000?).

Dave

#11 David Beard

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Posted 24 October 2006 - 18:02

Originally posted by RTH

Race of Champions Silverstone 1978 ?

Get a grip, Richard!

#12 RTH

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Posted 24 October 2006 - 18:08

You are right David that was the problem, most of them found a lake ! Not much of a race but quite a spectacle. Murray's trousers really were on fire that day. I wonder if it exists on tape anywhere ?

#13 nigel red5

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Posted 24 October 2006 - 19:03

Originally posted by RTH
I wonder if it exists on tape anywhere ?

Bits of it do, i can assure you of that

Daly flew off into a big lead early on lap 1, then at Abbey he just.....well, flew off! There were some others as well but i can't remember who exactly, although yes as you said Richard it was to say the least spectacular, and frightning as well i might add.

Hmm, rain moments. There's been plenty as we all know, but i think i'd have to say that mid-race part of the 1981 Italian Grand Prix at Monza where there was a shower that only really caught the parabolica. Either it was Reutemann or more likely Laffite that came round the outside and passed about 3 of 'em in one move. I was gobsmacked.

#14 corrado

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Posted 24 October 2006 - 19:13

I think I can say Vittorio Brambilla at Zeltweg 1975 and Zolder (?) 1977

#15 Ray Bell

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Posted 24 October 2006 - 19:46

We all know Jochen Rindt did so well in the rain at Warwick Farm in 1969...

But do we all know that Graham Hill set fastest lap?

And though I've quoted it before, the Solitude GP (1964?) showed up the wet weather talents of John Surtees very well... if one reads Jenks' report over and over.

Drivers who've impressed me in the rain include KB and Frank Matich... whose passing move on Graham McRae at Warwick Farm in 1973... indeed, his drive through the field in that race... was one to remember.

#16 sterling49

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Posted 24 October 2006 - 20:32

Originally posted by Keir
BOAC 1000 - 1970 - Rodriguez - Brands Hatch - Porsche 917 ! 'nuff said !!!

Agreed, but also Ickx's drive in the Race of Champions 1974(?) was a bit special in the Lotus 72.

I will always remember Stewart's drive at the '68 German GP, if I remember correctly, printed in colour in MN with the aid of new technology! :clap:

#17 David M. Kane

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Posted 24 October 2006 - 21:01

I thought Patrick Depailler in the six-wheeler at Watkins Glen was an attention getter...got mind!
Stuck was impressive too in the BT-45 until he chucked it away...

#18 Ray Bell

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Posted 24 October 2006 - 22:07

And there was John Youl at Lakeside in 1963, I think it was...

While the whole world was in awe, I'm told, watching Glenn Seton at Bathurst one year.

#19 seldo

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Posted 24 October 2006 - 22:46

Originally posted by Ray Bell
And there was John Youl at Lakeside in 1963, I think it was...

While the whole world was in awe, I'm told, watching Glenn Seton at Bathurst one year.

Get real Ray....How can you even suggest a touring car driver's skills in a thread intended for the purity and sanctity of open-wheelers....you'll have the scorn of thousands upon you...;)

#20 Ray Bell

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Posted 24 October 2006 - 22:54

Uhh... yeah... forgot...

David Seldon was tremendous when his glasses fogged up!

#21 stevewf1

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Posted 24 October 2006 - 23:00

Along with the already mentioned Nurburgring '68, Portugal '85 and Donnington '93, I'll mention Spa 1998... Until Schumacher collided with Coulthard, I thought Schumacher put on an amazing & dominating display...

#22 stuartbrs

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Posted 24 October 2006 - 23:36

We were only talking about Seton in the Skyline at Bathurst 1987 the other day.. That car was at ridiculous angles over the top of the hill, his quote at the end of the day went along the lines of "life isnt any fun if you dont have a few moments".. or something like that.

Wasn`t Jim Richards also awesome that day, in the JPS M3? A different style of awesome, smooth and very , very fast.

I remember seeing a caption somewhere of Jim in the BMW at Bathurst.. "Jim Richards, an M3, rain. The perfect combination"

#23 Sergio Sultani

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Posted 25 October 2006 - 11:59

Thank you for all these opinions...

Masahiro Hasemi in Japan 1976..

He took the best lap with his Kojima nº51. It was his first race!

All cars had Goodyear tyres. Just Hasemi had Dunlop tyre...

Sergio Sultani.

#24 312B

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Posted 25 October 2006 - 12:18

Jean Alesi springs to mind,

At European in 95 remember him being miles faster than the rest of the field until it started to dry and Schumacher caught him back up

#25 Hieronymus

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Posted 25 October 2006 - 13:25

Originally posted by David M. Kane
I thought Patrick Depailler in the six-wheeler at Watkins Glen was an attention getter...got mind!

Patrick was always very fast in the wet. In F1, I recall the wet Austrian GP of 1978...also Japan 1976.

A race that I would rate here is the Pau F2 race in 1974. Patrick demolished the opposition in the wet. I think he lapped the whole field bar the second place man which he also nearly lapped.

Then there was also the F3 race at Monaco in 1972 that he won.

His only major b-up in the wet was at the Nürburgring sportscar race in 1976, when he took both himself and his teammate (Jabouille) out shortly after the start of the race.

#26 Henri Greuter

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Posted 25 October 2006 - 14:13

Perhaps not nostalgic enough, apart from daring to mention the dreaded German but I think Barcelona '96 by Schumacher was also extra-ordinary. Impressed me much more than Senna's much heralded '93 Donington.

Jen-Pierre beltoise at Monaco 1971 (Last ever BRM victory)

Le Mans 1970 must have been awesome too if Steve McQueen's movie is an indication of how it was.

Henri

#27 Pedro 917

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Posted 25 October 2006 - 14:13

Pedro in F1 :

1968 French GP - Rouen
1971 Dutch GP - Zandvoort

Pedro in Sport-Prototype :

1968 24H Le Mans
1970 1000km Brands Hatch
1971 24H Daytona
1971 1000km Zeltweg

#28 Maldwyn

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Posted 25 October 2006 - 14:16

Originally posted by RTH
Race of Champions Silverstone 1978 ?

I'd have to agree with that simply because it was the first race I ever attended

but wasn't it the International Trophy? :

Posted Image

#29 D-Type

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Posted 25 October 2006 - 14:20

Originally posted by Sergio Sultani
Thank you for all these opinions...

Masahiro Hasemi in Japan 1976..

He took the best lap with his Kojima nº51. It was his first race!

All cars had Goodyear tyres. Just Hasemi had Dunlop tyre...

Sergio Sultani.

Not his first race - merely his first World Championship race.

He was one of Japan's most experienced drivers and was more familiar with the Fuji circuit than anyone else in the race

#30 RTH

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Posted 25 October 2006 - 15:44

Originally posted by Maldwyn

I'd have to agree with that simply because it was the first race I ever attended but wasn't it the International Trophy? :

You are right, - it was just from memory I did recall it was not a GP.

I seem to think Mario was in the 79 and Ronnie in the 78 they both ended up to the axles in mud way in to the infield surrounded by water.

Last man standing at the flag I think was Keke Rosberg in an ugly looking device A Theodore TR1,

a sort of overgrown RT1 by Ron Tauranac.

love to see the film again it was quite amazing a real cloud burst

#31 Andrew Kitson

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Posted 25 October 2006 - 15:51

It has to be Jackie at the 'ring surely? To win by four minutes on such a circuit, in those conditions..

#32 Sergio Sultani

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Posted 25 October 2006 - 16:34

Originally posted by D-Type

Not his first race - merely his first World Championship race.

He was one of Japan's most experienced drivers and was more familiar with the Fuji circuit than anyone else in the race

Ok D-Type. You are right. Sorry, I expressed myself badly.

But it is a record that never will be beaten. In the maximum, equaled (just one race in the F1 World Championship and one fastest lap) ... :clap:

Abraço,
Sergio Sultani.

#33 scheivlak

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Posted 25 October 2006 - 16:42

Originally posted by Henri Greuter

Jen-Pierre beltoise at Monaco 1971 (Last ever BRM victory)

1972 - It was one of the very rare occasions in those years that a GP was broadcast entirely here; I was stunned!

#34 subh

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Posted 25 October 2006 - 18:34

I want to mention Jos Verstappen and some of his wet races:

1996 Brazil, Spain
2000 Canada, Europe
2001 Malaysia

When the conditions evened things out, he was able to get some good performances out of his cars.

#35 Tim Murray

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Posted 25 October 2006 - 18:35

Originally posted by Ray Bell
We all know Jochen Rindt did so well in the rain at Warwick Farm in 1969...

plus his stunning performance in the 1969 International Trophy - overtaking four cars in one corner . . . :drunk:

#36 Sergio Sultani

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Posted 25 October 2006 - 19:17

Good race:
Marc Surer (Ensign) - GP Brasil 1981 - Rio de Janeiro (Jacarepaguá).

Sergio Sultani.

#37 Ray Bell

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Posted 25 October 2006 - 20:48

Originally posted by RTH
.....Last man standing at the flag I think was Keke Rosberg in an ugly looking device A Theodore TR1.....

This means that Keke has made our list?

Pedro... the last one in your list sounded impressive in the Motor Sport retrospective on the event.

#38 dolomite

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Posted 26 October 2006 - 00:01

Originally posted by RTH
You are right David that was the problem, most of them found a lake ! Not much of a race but quite a spectacle. Murray's trousers really were on fire that day. I wonder if it exists on tape anywhere ?

Somewhere I have a reel to reel audio tape of that race that I recorded from the TV :cool:

#39 Ray Bell

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Posted 26 October 2006 - 00:49

Originally posted by dolomite
Somewhere I have a reel to reel audio tape of that race that I recorded from the TV

Impressive...

But I guess the vision wasn't too bright on a day like that anyway?

#40 RA Historian

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Posted 26 October 2006 - 01:05

Jacky Ickx and Pedro Rodriguez going insanely fast in the rain at Zandvoort in 1971.

#41 Henri Greuter

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Posted 26 October 2006 - 06:36

Originally posted by scheivlak

1972 - It was one of the very rare occasions in those years that a GP was broadcast entirely here; I was stunned!

I stand corrected.
I also remember having seen that race in its entirety on TV.

Henri

#42 Sergio Sultani

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Posted 26 October 2006 - 12:11

Originally posted by Sergio Sultani
Thank you for all these opinions...

Masahiro Hasemi in Japan 1976..

............................................................................................
All cars had Goodyear tyres. Just Hasemi had Dunlop tyre...
............................................................................................

Sergio Sultani.

A correction: The driver Kazuyoshi Hoshino had Bridgestone tyres in his Tyrrell 007 nº52.
He also made a beautiful race.

Obrigado,
Sergio Sultani.

#43 jcbc3

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Posted 26 October 2006 - 12:34

Originally posted by Stoatspeed
..., and more recently Reubens Barrichello has been a class act (remember Germany 2000?).

Dave

erhhhh, it sure hepled that the field was held up by that Merceds guy. Not in any way RB's best wet weather performance. Because I DO agree that RB is very good in the wet. I remember his pole at Spa in drying conditions in the Jordan, and his second place in the Stewart in Monaco as being better.

#44 Ray Bell

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Posted 26 October 2006 - 13:13

Originally posted by Sergio Sultani
A correction: The driver Kazuyoshi Hoshino had Bridgestone tyres in his Tyrrell 007 nº52.
He also made a beautiful race.

A correction? I believe Hasemi did have Dunlops in that event...

#45 Sergio Sultani

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Posted 26 October 2006 - 14:05

Dear Ray Bell.

Sorry, but I think you are wrong.

According to FORIX site (it is sufficiently trustworthy) Hoshino drove with Bridgestone tyres.
You can also sees this information in http://www.autocours...er_id~11820.htm

I have this information also in "Auto Esporte" Magazine of Brasil.

It was the first race of Bridgestone tyres in F1 World Championship.

Abraço,
Sergio Sultani.

#46 man

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Posted 27 October 2006 - 02:46

Forgot the year, but the wet Donington BTCC race that Nige featured in with a Mondeo was highly entertaining. It was enhanced by the the characters involved. :up:

#47 Tim Murray

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Posted 27 October 2006 - 17:28

Originally posted by Sergio Sultani
Dear Ray Bell.

Sorry, but I think you are wrong.

Sergio, Ray is agreeing with your earlier (correct) statement that Hasemi's Kojima was on Dunlops. As you have also told us, Hoshino's Tyrrell was on Bridgestones. The rest of the field was on Goodyears.

#48 Sergio Sultani

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Posted 27 October 2006 - 18:58

Hi Ray Bell and Tim Murray...

Next year you would come to São Paulo - Brasil for F1 Interlagos race.

Then, in a meeting, we will drink a good beer and talk more and more about race cars !

I am waiting you here -São Paulo- !!! :clap:

Have a good weekend, :up:

Sergio Sultani.

#49 Tim Murray

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Posted 27 October 2006 - 20:50

Originally posted by Sergio Sultani
Hi Ray Bell and Tim Murray...

Next year you would come to São Paulo - Brasil for F1 Interlagos race.

Then, in a meeting, we will drink a good beer and talk more and more about race cars !

I am waiting you here -São Paulo- !!!

Have a good weekend,
Sergio Sultani.

I'd love to visit Brazil. What date is next year's Grand Prix?

Have a good weekend yourself, Sergio. :wave:

#50 Ray Bell

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Posted 28 October 2006 - 00:49

Originally posted by Tim Murray
Sergio, Ray is agreeing with your earlier (correct) statement that Hasemi's Kojima was on Dunlops. As you have also told us, Hoshino's Tyrrell was on Bridgestones. The rest of the field was on Goodyears.

Yes, that was my purpose, then I realised later that the point wasn't about Hasemi and his Dunlops, but about the presence of the Bridgestones.

I don't see me getting to Brazil in a hurry, Sergio, but if I ever do I will look for you.

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Wet races; which were the best ones?

#1 Sergio Sultani

#2 Gary Davies

#3 Glengavel

#4 Keir

#5 kevthedrummer

#6 Big Jim

#7 Paul Parker

#8 RTH

#9 James Page

#10 Stoatspeed

#11 David Beard

#12 RTH

#13 nigel red5

#14 corrado

#15 Ray Bell

#16 sterling49

#17 David M. Kane

#18 Ray Bell

#19 seldo

#20 Ray Bell

#21 stevewf1

#22 stuartbrs

#23 Sergio Sultani

#24 312B

#25 Hieronymus

#26 Henri Greuter

#27 Pedro 917

#28 Maldwyn

#29 D-Type

#30 RTH

#31 Andrew Kitson

#32 Sergio Sultani

#33 scheivlak

#34 subh

#35 Tim Murray

#36 Sergio Sultani

#37 Ray Bell

#38 dolomite

#39 Ray Bell

#40 RA Historian

#41 Henri Greuter

#42 Sergio Sultani

#43 jcbc3

#44 Ray Bell

#45 Sergio Sultani

#46 man

#47 Tim Murray

#48 Sergio Sultani

#49 Tim Murray

#50 Ray Bell

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