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Australian GP 2008: Post Race Discussion Thread


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#601 tahadar

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 12:37

so do either of the ferrari drivers get engine penalties? if not, then why so? im just a bit confused about the exact regulations regarding retirements dues to engine/non-engine related reasons.

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#602 metz

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 12:38

This year they can replace one engine for free.

#603 Timstr11

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 12:42

Originally posted by Owen


Well, the teams managed to fool or mislead just about every F1 publication (including Autosport). Autosport's winter 'grid' had Honda second last and Toyota way back also. It's easy to be wise after the event, I still think you will find many people (using this BB) will find the first race a bit of a shock to the expected order.

I never pay much attention to grids like that as even autosport.com does not know.

#604 Gareth

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 12:42

Originally posted by mowaru
He overtook him, not by making an aggressive maneuver, but because Coulthard reduced drastically his speed ...

Cool, thanks for the info. That combined with returning the place makes the decision understandable.

#605 Atreiu

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 22:10

Originally posted by glorius&victorius
I dont know if posted already... (at least I didnt find it)



===========================================
POS NO DRIVER NAT ENTRANT TIME
1 23 H. KOVALAINEN FIN Vodafone McLaren Mercedes 1:27.418

2 22 L. HAMILTON GBR Vodafone McLaren Mercedes 1:27.452

3 3 N. HEIDFELD GER BMW Sauber F1 Team 1:27.739

4 1 K. RAIKKONEN FIN Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro 1:27.903

5 7 N. ROSBERG GER AT&T Williams 1:28.090

6 2 F. MASSA BRA Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro 1:28.175

7 5 F. ALONSO ESP ING Renault F1 Team 1:28.603

8 17 R. BARRICHELLO BRA Honda Racing F1 Team 1:28.736

9 4 R. KUBICA POL BMW Sauber F1 Team 1:28.753

10 11 J. TRULLI ITA Panasonic Toyota Racing 1:29.310

11 9 D. COULTHARD GBR Red Bull Racing 1:29.502

12 14 S. BOURDAIS FRA Scuderia Toro Rosso 1:29.534

13 12 T. GLOCK GER Panasonic Toyota Racing 1:29.558

14 8 K. NAKAJIMA JPN AT&T Williams 1:29.639

15 18 T. SATO JPN Super Aguri F1 Team 1:30.892

16 6 N. PIQUET BRA ING Renault F1 Team 1:31.384

17 20 A. SUTIL GER Force India F1 Team 1:32.021
=======================================



Actually Piquets gap to Alonso isn't that big. 2.781 seconds. I am sure it was related to driving in traffic all the time. Lets follow his progress.


I hate to admit it, he sucked, but there is also the possibility of his chassis being damaged the entire weekend.

#606 karlth

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 01:04

I just watched the whole onboard channel from the race. It could have been called the Kimi channel as about 80% of the coverage was of Raikkonen driving up the order in his Ferrari.

A few items of interest: Raikkonen was erratic. To the untrained eye he seemed to be overdriving the car, many corrections on the exit of corners due to excessive throttle, using the kerb when the car couldn't handle it and mistakes under braking (at least 3 times). A probable explanation is that he was still struggling with the setup.

Massa was either taking strange lines when following other cars or he was cooling the engine/brakes as he frequently drove out off the slipstream.

The McLaren was noticeably smooth over the kerbs.

Perhaps it was a coincidence, or a low wing setup, but the Renault seemed to lack grip or stability. Mid corner corrections which were hardly seen on the McLaren and Ferrari. Obviously on the absolute limit under braking.

The Williams seemed stable and either due to driving style or car design it looked like the car was rolled into the corner rather than driven.

The drivers are playing with the throttle in the corners and corner exit corrections were very evident, especially when following another car.

#607 HP

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 02:19

Originally posted by tahadar
so do either of the ferrari drivers get engine penalties? if not, then why so? im just a bit confused about the exact regulations regarding retirements dues to engine/non-engine related reasons.

They won't get a penalty, as their cars never finished the race. Any of the competitors not finishing the race are free to change their engines without penalty. The exception to this rule if a team purposely doesn't finish the race (e.g. because they are not in the points anymore), then they will get a grid penalty. Honda did this a few years back, hence that exception was put into place.

So where an engine failure hurts in terms of grid position for the upcoming race is now only on Saturday, till race start on Sunday.

#608 AFCA

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 16:29

Some quotes from F1 people about the tyre situation. Vettel: ''In Melbourne it's more dramatical under braking without stability control. The track is often very bumpy when you start to brake. You can easily make a mistake.''

Rosberg: ''You easily lock your rear tyres driving over a bump.''

Bridgestone brought compound 680 and 681 to Melbourne, so those that are in the middle range. There was an awful lot of graining at Albert Park, Vasselon: ''Usually there should be less graining when it gets hot. But that's not the case this year. Not just with us, it's the case with everyone. There's no reason which would logically explain it.'' Gass adds to it: ''Graining with the hard tyres was even worse than with the soft ones.''

To a certain extend the drivers can influence the amount of graining, Vettel: ''You have to take care you choose the right pace for your outlap. You struggle with graining in the last sector of the flying lap. But in your outlap, which you can decide about yourself (in terms of driving style/speed - AFCA), you have the possibilty to influence it.''

Glock did very well on his tyres and his engineers were happy with that. The German had to fight his way back in the field after a first lap incident. Gass: ''It is particularly important not to overdo things and create graining in such situations. The graining on Timo's car wasn't too bad. This certainly relates to how he has treated the tyres in the opening phase of the race.''

Especially the left front tyre had a lot of graining in Melbourne. This more easily lead to the drivers having understeer, there obviously being a greater risk of making a mistake. Head however, doesn't solemnly want to blame the technique for the many DNF's during the opening race: ''When the drivers came close to another car they simple took their foot off the accelerator in testing. Now they have to get back to real racing. After a long winter it simply takes a while for the drivers to get used to man to man racing. They simply need to get to grips with it again first.''

#609 vsubravet

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 16:42

Originally posted by karlth
I just watched the whole onboard channel from the race. It could have been called the Kimi channel as about 80% of the coverage was of Raikkonen driving up the order in his Ferrari.

A few items of interest: Raikkonen was erratic. To the untrained eye he seemed to be overdriving the car, many corrections on the exit of corners due to excessive throttle, using the kerb when the car couldn't handle it and mistakes under braking (at least 3 times). A probable explanation is that he was still struggling with the setup.

Massa was either taking strange lines when following other cars or he was cooling the engine/brakes as he frequently drove out off the slipstream.

The McLaren was noticeably smooth over the kerbs.

Perhaps it was a coincidence, or a low wing setup, but the Renault seemed to lack grip or stability. Mid corner corrections which were hardly seen on the McLaren and Ferrari. Obviously on the absolute limit under braking.

The Williams seemed stable and either due to driving style or car design it looked like the car was rolled into the corner rather than driven.

The drivers are playing with the throttle in the corners and corner exit corrections were very evident, especially when following another car.


The McLaren cars had similar characteristics last year; it was one of their strong points.
Btw, what is this onboard channel, "karlth"?
Ferrari engines had cooling issues and that may have forced FM to take those strange lines.

#610 tahadar

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 19:23

Originally posted by HP
They won't get a penalty, as their cars never finished the race. Any of the competitors not finishing the race are free to change their engines without penalty. The exception to this rule if a team purposely doesn't finish the race (e.g. because they are not in the points anymore), then they will get a grid penalty. Honda did this a few years back, hence that exception was put into place.

So where an engine failure hurts in terms of grid position for the upcoming race is now only on Saturday, till race start on Sunday.


that explains a LOT. thanks. i was under the impression that failures on sunday would lead to grid penalties.

#611 mcF1L

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 15:40

Some photos from Australia
http://rapidshare.co...4/AUSTRALIA.rar

#612 karlth

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 15:48

Originally posted by vsubravet
Btw, what is this onboard channel, "karlth"?


A video file from the German Premiere(sp?) station.

#613 race addicted

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 15:58

Originally posted by karlth
I just watched the whole onboard channel from the race.

A few items of interest: (...)


Interesting. (noticed the same regarding the Williams)

#614 rodlamas

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 16:02

Originally posted by karlth


A video file from the German Premiere(sp?) station.


[stupid question mode] Can you share it with us? [/stupid question mode]

#615 mowaru

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 16:05

Originally posted by karlth


Perhaps it was a coincidence, or a low wing setup, but the Renault seemed to lack grip or stability. Mid corner corrections which were hardly seen on the McLaren and Ferrari. Obviously on the absolute limit under braking.


Alonso said the R28 lacks grip, so they used a lot of wing to help it, and that's the reason they were that slow in straights.

#616 karlth

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 16:06

Originally posted by rodlamas


[stupid question mode] Can you share it with us? [/stupid question mode]


I'm terribly sorry but I can't. Any links posted here are pursued by FOCA reps and lead to site closures.

I hope you understand. :(

#617 mowaru

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 16:07

Originally posted by karlth


A video file from the German Premiere(sp?) station.


is it public? ...

#618 Beyond

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 17:10

Someone knows whether the ferraris will have a new engine or not?

#619 undersquare

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 17:13

Originally posted by Beyond
Someone knows whether the ferraris will have a new engine or not?


Yes, they get a free engine change because they DNF'd in Melbourne.