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#1 GStephen

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Posted 16 March 2008 - 08:24

I personalise despise the use of the safety car in racing - it creates an lottery, and quite frankly penalises faster drivers who have built up a lead over others (Or neutralises the effect of someones mistake - in that they can catch up to the pack again). Whats even worse in F1, is that back markers can "Unlap" themselves.

To take thems to the extreme, imaging a situation whereby a backmarker unlaps himself in the first safety car period, then pits and refuels, extra heavy, to make it to end of the race and manages to rejoin the train. (Assume the leaders do not pit), 1 laps before the leaders are due to pit, a 2nd safety car period; by this time, backmarker (who was lapped 20 laps prior), files past when the other pit under safety car, takes the lead and wins the race. I know this in highly unlikely, but illustrates the ludicrousy of the safety car on the racing / sport aspect (as opposed to the "motortainment" aspect) of F1.

In my view, the fairest, and problably most sporting way of dealing with safety car situations, is to remotely activate a maximum speed limit on all cars (say 150km/h) for the period in which the safety car would be out. In this way, all cars maintain the same "gaps" that were built up prior to the safety car, and the primary objective of maintaining "safety" and allowing the marshals to clear up debris is met. Taking things further, the speed limit could be activated for only the parts of the track where there is a hazard. The race could then continue as normal, once the debris was cleared up! This would easily be achievable with GPS technology and the like. (Alternatively, instead of remote activation, once the safety boards come out, the drivers would have to activate a speed limiter, and they would then be held accountable (by means of a drive through or other penalty), if they exceed the limit - which can be monitored centrally via GPS)

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#2 fnz

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Posted 16 March 2008 - 08:26

refueling under SC ain't allowed

#3 GStephen

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Posted 16 March 2008 - 08:27

Refueling is allowed once the "pits have been opened" under the safety car

#4 fnz

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Posted 16 March 2008 - 08:28

true, bad choice of words byme

#5 fnz

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Posted 16 March 2008 - 08:28

But if frontrunners are due to pit 1 lap later, they could come in as well

#6 Keffo

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Posted 16 March 2008 - 08:29

Question about the first SC: the Dutch commentator, not always that reliable, mentioned that there wasn't any announcement made on the computer that the SC would come in (lap 2?). Further, the gaps between the drivers were really big, like they weren't paying attention. Did they know the SC was coming in?

#7 fnz

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Posted 16 March 2008 - 08:31

Originally posted by Keffo
Question about the first SC: the Dutch commentator, not always that reliable, mentioned that there wasn't any announcement made on the computer that the SC would come in (lap 2?). Further, the gaps between the drivers were really big, like they weren't paying attention. Did they know the SC was coming in?


Euh ... isn't it so that lights go of on SC in last lap before it comes in?

#8 kamix

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Posted 16 March 2008 - 08:32

There are situations where a SC is unfortunately necessary.

They could just leave the pits closed during safety car or double yellows and it would cure all randomness we see at the moment.

#9 Mauseri

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Posted 16 March 2008 - 08:33

Originally posted by fnz
refueling under SC ain't allowed

The worst thing is that SC puts all pitting drivers behind all those unpitting. It's quite a risk these days to try win race with a heavy car.

I dont think this safety car mixing the pack brings the destined excitement. Mixed packs isnt exciting if overtaking isnt psosible.

It's good that this year will see more driver mistakes, but more safety car I despise that.

#10 jokuvaan

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Posted 16 March 2008 - 08:33

There is surely lottery factor in safety car but has to remember that not all tracks see it so much as Australia style tracks.

#11 Keffo

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Posted 16 March 2008 - 08:35

Originally posted by fnz


Euh ... isn't it so that lights go of on SC in last lap before it comes in?

Yes, but a midfield runner wasn't in the position to see it.

But I just think it's a strange story, that's why I asked.

#12 fnz

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Posted 16 March 2008 - 08:36

Originally posted by Keffo
Yes, but a midfield runner wasn't in the position to see it.

But I just think it's a strange story, that's why I asked.


No but teams have video stream, so even it wasn't clearly comunicated by CW, they could have seen it on the stream and radio their drivers.

#13 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 16 March 2008 - 09:16

Originally posted by GStephen
I personalise despise the use of the safety car in racing -


It's called a SAFETY car for a reason.

#14 StefanV

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Posted 16 March 2008 - 09:28

We see the Safety Car more or less every race nowadays. I think it is a pity when it puts everything on it's head. But what to do? Start racing without pit stops? I suffered with Heikki today, I think he could have won. I suffered with Kimi who I guess lost a bit of temper and concentration when his fantastic drive up to the first SC was nullified.

#15 GStephen

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Posted 16 March 2008 - 10:34

Ross Stonefeld quote:
_______________________________
It's called a SAFETY car for a reason.
_______________________________

If you read further, you would see i'm not disputing this point - Safety is paramount.

I think that my proposal would be just a safe as a having a safety car (in fact safer because the cars wouldn't bunch up again, creating more opportunity for chaos), but without negating racing "gaps" that are built up prior to the safety period.

#16 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 16 March 2008 - 10:48

They're called DOUBLE WAVED YELLOWS for a reason. If all the drivers slowed to 80 kph in the sector and let the Marshall's safely go about the recovery/track clean-up all will be well.

Since the drivers press on at 200 kph despite double waved yellows, then the safety car must be deployed.

Simple, yes, simple.  ;)

#17 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 16 March 2008 - 10:50

Originally posted by GStephen
Ross Stonefeld quote:
_______________________________
It's called a SAFETY car for a reason.
_______________________________

If you read further, you would see i'm not disputing this point - Safety is paramount.

I think that my proposal would be just a safe as a having a safety car (in fact safer because the cars wouldn't bunch up again, creating more opportunity for chaos), but without negating racing "gaps" that are built up prior to the safety period.


It has been discussed that you can't exactly jam a speed limiter on every car without warning, some of them will spear off the track depending which part of cornering they are undertaking....

A safety car is deployed within 1-2 seconds of a major incident, whilst the other driver's are circling other parts of the track, and not all the drivers will have an eye on the big screens to notice the Glock wreck for example.

#18 Knuckles

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Posted 16 March 2008 - 13:32

Originally posted by GStephen
In my view, the fairest, and problably most sporting way of dealing with safety car situations, is to remotely activate a maximum speed limit on all cars (say 150km/h) for the period in which the safety car would be out. In this way, all cars maintain the same "gaps" that were built up prior to the safety car, and the primary objective of maintaining "safety" and allowing the marshals to clear up debris is met.


I don't think this can work. Others have already mentioned that you can't force a car into a greatly reduced speed without warning. Imagine the resulting load change (and consequently accident) in Blanchimont or other fast corners.

But I think you also overlook that the SC is actually supposed to bunch up the cars. This creates a short train of cars followed by two minutes or so of free track, which allows the marshalls and their gear to move in and do some useful work. This would be impossible if the cars maintained their gap, even at reduced speeds. You can't send out marshalls and gear when every few seconds a car drives by even with "just" 150 mp/h.