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Is F1 getting "Americanized"?


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#1 molive

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 01:05

Not on its drivers, of course.:p

I refer to the adoption of some features that are normal in some American racing series, like the constant yellow flag / safety car periods, the adoption of the "lucky dog" rule, even the little "ticker" on the bottom of the screen (nice feature, btw).

About the yellow flag period...I've always listened to F1 "experts" criticize Champcar (or, going a bit back in time, the great Indycar Series of Emmo and Mansell) for excessive yellow flags, but F1 isn't too diffent nowadays, is it?

Of course, I'm not praising the unnecessary yellow flag, but one can't deny that, once in a while it does make things more interesting, bunching up the field and throwing the "lucky timing" element into the mix.

Also, there's the Night Race added this year, which is great, imo. I wouldn't mind F1 borrowing the "1 extra point for the pole-sitter" rule, either.

BUT, there are some features I wish F1 never borrows from American series, such as the "rolling start" and the "points for everybody" system. A point in a F1 race must remain a hard thing to acomplish!

:smoking:

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#2 shaggy

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 01:15

I have always hated the way Americans love to splash the screen with all type of info that BLOCKS the view; in fact, every year it gets worse - in CC, they would actually put a margin around the screen so that the image could not fill the entire tv viewing area !!! :down:

In futbol, they zoom so close to "follow" the action that they are always a second behind and one cannot see the details of what happened.

This is one thing I certainly hope F1 will not copy from the US.

shaggy

#3 molive

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 01:21

Originally posted by shaggy
I have always hated the way Americans love to splash the screen with all type of info that BLOCKS the view; in fact, every year it gets worse - in CC, they would actually put a margin around the screen so that the image could not fill the entire tv viewing area !!! :down:



Or you could get a bigger tv.;)

#4 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 06:05

You get frequent SCs in Australia (and Canada) because of the type of track it is. It's got nothing to do ith America or American racing.

#5 gerry nassar

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 06:47

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
You get frequent SCs in Australia (and Canada) because of the type of track it is. It's got nothing to do ith America or American racing.


And its been like that for years. Infact i think we've had fewer safety cars over the last couple of seasons compared to the 90s/early 00s.

#6 JForce

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 07:10

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
You get frequent SCs in Australia (and Canada) because of the type of track it is. It's got nothing to do ith America or American racing.


Yeah, and of course on ovals you need to clean the track after a crash more than perhaps on a road course. Together with the fact that the overall size of a road course means you can localise a corner for removing debris or cars without going to a full-course yellow.

I was pleased to see a few drivers required to explain how their fastest laps were done despite a local yellow during one of the Melbourne sessions.

I like the fact that F1 doesn't have full-course yellows unless it has to, but along with that comes the responsibility for the drivers to slow down and respect it....otherwise it will have to be the safety car, which I don't like.

#7 lustigson

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 08:22

Originally posted by JForce
I was pleased to see a few drivers required to explain how their fastest laps were done despite a local yellow during one of the Melbourne sessions.

Me too, but I'm curious for their explanations, since they were obviously good enough for them not to be penalised.

#8 Rob29

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 08:54

Originally posted by molive



Or you could get a bigger tv.;)

Hum.When I bought my present main TV 13 yrs ago it was one of the biggest available and perfectly adequate for my small flat.However the trend to wide screen format,means I am having trouble reading the increasing on screen data.Only opened this thread as title did not seem to make much sense.USA has no F1 drivers cars or races.Its the TV people that are copying US technology.

#9 Locai

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 12:32

I can't stand the "phantom debris" cautions in NASCAR!

However, there are times when F1 is really risking lives by NOT deploying the safety car. There have been many times when I've seen either the track littered with carbon-fiber debris or a car stopped on-track or very near the track and all they throw is the local yellow. As best as I can tell, a local yellow only means that you can't pass. It doesn't seem to mean "slow down" at all. They are needlessly risking the lives of the marshalls and the drivers in many of those cases.

I also don't like the NASCAR system where a yellow flag always seems to last for 5 or more laps so that everybody can bunch up and everybody can pit and then everybody can bunch up again. I much prefer the F1 method of only throwing the yellow long enough to clear the track and then get back to racing ASAP. To me, there's no reason that you HAVE TO erase all the gaps during a caution. I want to see a race...not a parade.

#10 Keir

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 13:01

Like it or not, it does make things more interesting !!

Now if only the rule makers would follow suit !!!

#11 bogi

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 13:16

New graphics with pictures looks awful, now we only need cars with cleaning products as sponsorships.



And NASCAR sunglasses Posted Image :rotfl:

#12 molive

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 14:03

I wasn't thinking of NASCRap when I posted! :eek:

Regarding american sponsorships and brands, I miss the Ford name in F1, brings back many great memories...

#13 MarkWRX

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 17:25

Originally posted by Locai
I can't stand the "phantom debris" cautions in NASCAR!

However, there are times when F1 is really risking lives by NOT deploying the safety car. There have been many times when I've seen either the track littered with carbon-fiber debris or a car stopped on-track or very near the track and all they throw is the local yellow. As best as I can tell, a local yellow only means that you can't pass. It doesn't seem to mean "slow down" at all. They are needlessly risking the lives of the marshalls and the drivers in many of those cases.

I also don't like the NASCAR system where a yellow flag always seems to last for 5 or more laps so that everybody can bunch up and everybody can pit and then everybody can bunch up again. I much prefer the F1 method of only throwing the yellow long enough to clear the track and then get back to racing ASAP. To me, there's no reason that you HAVE TO erase all the gaps during a caution. I want to see a race...not a parade.


You brought up some good points. When I was a Marshall (for SCCA) the yellow flag actually had an effect on cars - they would noticeably slow which gave me greater confidence when I was moving to a car. A waved yellow had an even better effect. Perhaps the FIA need to mandate a specific rev reduction in a yellow flag zone (from where the driver can or should see the flag to the point after the incident). They have pit lane limit switches - have a yellow flag switch. It would be easy enough to monitor. This should, if enforced, reduce the need for SC periods.

NASCAR totally overuses yellow flags. The debris on track is generally just anothe way of saying "compitition yellow". According to some corner worker friends who worked a NASCAR event at Pocono in the 90's - they saw NASCAR officials talk to the pit crew of a driver who was DFL (Dead F**king Last) and a few laps later, he spun all by himself and got a yellow to bunch the pack up.

#14 John B

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 17:30

Safety car is a big improvement over red flags after first lap incidents - those were good for long delays and screwed up TV windows.

One route I hope F1 does not follow is spec cars/bodywork; there were rumors of that last year and I don't know where that stands at the moment......IMO - and certainly not all NASCAR followers feel this way - it's lost some appeal and identity with the common car of tomorrow and aero matching before that.

#15 FordFan

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 23:37

Regarding american sponsorships and brands, I miss the Ford name in F1, brings back many great memories...



I'm holding out hope that at least Cosworth will be back.

#16 VresiBerba

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 00:13

Originally posted by Locai
I can't stand the "phantom debris" cautions in NASCAR!

To be perfectly honest, I have never seen one of those. Every time there's a yellow for debris, the actual debris has been visually confirmed. This weekend in Bristol I witnessed a "competition yellow" (scheduled yellow I suppose) to check for tyre degradation, but there was nothing "phantom" about that either.

#17 2soX

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 04:02

Originally posted by VresiBerba
To be perfectly honest, I have never seen one of those. Every time there's a yellow for debris, the actual debris has been visually confirmed. This weekend in Bristol I witnessed a "competition yellow" (scheduled yellow I suppose) to check for tyre degradation, but there was nothing "phantom" about that either.


I haven`t watched too much this year, but I stopped being a follower a few years ago because of the cautions that mysteriously appeared when someone was running away with the race, especially in the end.
There are stories that have been told in books by people like Dave Marcis over the years...so it`s not made up.

That`s not racing.

What NASCAR wants is a dozen sprint races so it will be entertaining for the fans, but they bill them as 400 + milers. :rolleyes:

#18 VresiBerba

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 06:45

Originally posted by 2soX
That`s not racing.

It's most certainly not. If what you say is true, it's a disgrace. I sure as hell hope that this is not common practice in Nascar today, or I will seriously re-evaluate watching that series.

#19 d246

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 08:05

When F1 commentators start saying "he's pulling in to pitlane" instead of "the pit lane", the Americanisation will be complete.

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#20 krferrari07

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 09:18

I do like the new graphics that FOM have come up with, liking the scrolling Classification at the bottom of the screen. One think that might get annoying is seeing Robert Kubica's face every now and again telling me where he was born and how tall he is, i am talking about the Driver stats that pop-up every now and again.

#21 Beej

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 13:00

Originally posted by Locai
I can't stand the "phantom debris" cautions in NASCAR!

However, there are times when F1 is really risking lives by NOT deploying the safety car. There have been many times when I've seen either the track littered with carbon-fiber debris or a car stopped on-track or very near the track and all they throw is the local yellow. As best as I can tell, a local yellow only means that you can't pass. It doesn't seem to mean "slow down" at all. They are needlessly risking the lives of the marshalls and the drivers in many of those cases.


Check out http://www.flag-mars.../yellowflag.htm I am a Track Marshal and as such I do Incident and Flagging. I find it very dangerous when drivers take the yellow flag just to mean no overtaking as as you correctly say it puts me in more danger whilst trying to clean up after an incident. Due to drivers not slowing down for yellows we see more safety cars to protect the marshals whilst at work.

#22 RedBaron

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 13:37

The only thing I don't like and hoped would never come to Formula 1 tv pods, is the real driver faces. The little fact files that pop-up aren't too bad, but the grid having driver's faces isn't necessary, should be their helmets and cars if they have to have images.

#23 molive

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 14:12

Originally posted by RedBaron
...the real driver faces.


Yep, their "real" faces are just damm ugly!


Now, if they wanted to show the pit babes... :love::kiss:

#24 John B

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 15:48

Think of another possibility: Bernie calling in Alonso's satellite radio show to debate tires and other rules :D

(as the NASCAR president did with Tony Stewart last week)

#25 Denier

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 17:26

I am not a fan of the localized yellow flags.

I do not think the drivers are to blame for going too fast through them; if they go slow, they lose time to drivers who go faster. I can not think of any real good way to enforce local yellows without giving the drivers an incentive to speed through them. They are extremely dangerous and hopefully some marshal does not get killed before they change the rule.

Full course yellows are actually quite nice (when justified). They provide a great chance for a bathroom break and bring the field back together. If a driver has the best car, he should be capable of defending his position through multiple restarts, particularly towards the end of the race. It certainly changes the dynamics of the race but I think it makes it more interesting (and there is nothing wrong with an interesting race. But then again, I am American!).

#26 David M. Kane

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 17:30

How about that "Americanized" Bourdais?

#27 Spunout

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 17:48

Originally posted by John B
Think of another possibility: Bernie calling in Alonso's satellite radio show to debate tires and other rules :D

(as the NASCAR president did with Tony Stewart last week)


We already had Dave Coolhard Jr threatening to kick someone´s butt ;)

#28 rolf123

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 19:40

OK a few interesting points.

First of all, the "safety" car. Let's face it, when it was introduced in '94, it was not for the sake of safety. It was for pure entertainment! Mixing up the pack allows us to forget how overtaking for the lead places on the track has all but disappeared. In the decade before the safety car was introduced, I can't think of many secondary accidents that have occured in the immediate aftermath of an original accident where you could say that a safety car would have prevented that. And even if there are a few, F1 is supposed to have some danger! I'm with Jacques Villeneuve on this one. If you really believe that a safety car is essential then I would hazard a guess that you are less than 25 years old!

Secondly, the waved yellows and needing to slow. This is ridiculous. _How_ slow are you supposed to go? I've noticed that some drivers will slow a little and others a lot more. Is a 0.5 second lift enough? Is any lift enough?

As for the driver pictures, yes I noticed this looked a lot like American TV and tacky. Actually, I don't mind the pictures, just the useless stats. I remember in '91 (or '92?) when there were pictures and they were pretty cool. Particularly Ayrton Senna, because he was the only driver who wasn't wearing his overalls - instead he was in a sort of three quarter view wearing a huge red puffer jacket :D

#29 molive

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 21:08

Originally posted by rolf123
... I noticed this looked a lot like American TV .


I hope this is not a trend. Imagine if they introduced commercial breaks! :eek:

#30 mclarensmps

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 21:14

OFFTOPIC:



Best F1 graphics imo.

edit: there's a better version out there with sound effects and japanese commentary but i can't seem to find it :(. It's not as funny without...


#31 lukywill

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 21:17

there´s too many stops. there´s too many slow down because there´s some signal that doesn´t appeal to us.

it´s a big shit. typically f1 is becoming more commercial. and a champ car issue.

suppose it´s time to forget about racing and cancel the patient attention.

#32 Domination

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 21:36

What's this ticker everyone is talking about? I didn't notice it on the itv web feed.

#33 wrighty

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 21:44

Originally posted by Domination
What's this ticker everyone is talking about? I didn't notice it on the itv web feed.


it was there m8, i watched the race on itv as well.....it was your standard Fox News-type ticker across the bottom of the screen scrolling race position and other stats......in the classic style, it tickered how many pit stops all of the drivers had had.......at about lap 6 :lol:

....and tbh i didn't like it, i preferred the displays in groups of 8s from years gone by, but hey, i preferred mk2 ford escorts too, they didnt survive either ;)

#34 Juan Kerr

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 22:02

Originally posted by molive
Not on its drivers, of course.:p

I refer to the adoption of some features that are normal in some American racing series, like the constant yellow flag / safety car periods, the adoption of the "lucky dog" rule, even the little "ticker" on the bottom of the screen (nice feature, btw).

About the yellow flag period...I've always listened to F1 "experts" criticize Champcar (or, going a bit back in time, the great Indycar Series of Emmo and Mansell) for excessive yellow flags, but F1 isn't too diffent nowadays, is it?

Of course, I'm not praising the unnecessary yellow flag, but one can't deny that, once in a while it does make things more interesting, bunching up the field and throwing the "lucky timing" element into the mix.

Also, there's the Night Race added this year, which is great, imo. I wouldn't mind F1 borrowing the "1 extra point for the pole-sitter" rule, either.

BUT, there are some features I wish F1 never borrows from American series, such as the "rolling start" and the "points for everybody" system. A point in a F1 race must remain a hard thing to acomplish!

:smoking:

The world is becoming Americanised through the media haven't you noticed ?

#35 Domination

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 22:15

Originally posted by wrighty


it was there m8, i watched the race on itv as well.....it was your standard Fox News-type ticker across the bottom of the screen scrolling race position and other stats......in the classic style, it tickered how many pit stops all of the drivers had had.......at about lap 6 :lol:

....and tbh i didn't like it, i preferred the displays in groups of 8s from years gone by, but hey, i preferred mk2 ford escorts too, they didnt survive either ;)


is the web feed the same as they show on tv? i guess i will pay closer attention next time.

#36 wrighty

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 23:07

Originally posted by Domination


is the web feed the same as they show on tv? i guess i will pay closer attention next time.


its in the ITV video highlights m8, around the 1-minute mark :up:

#37 Domination

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 23:22

Originally posted by wrighty


its in the ITV video highlights m8, around the 1-minute mark :up:


good stuff, but i don't like the way they have the cumulative gaps from the leader. they should just put gap to the person ahead or something.

#38 Mauseri

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 23:37

Originally posted by gerry nassar
And its been like that for years. Infact i think we've had fewer safety cars over the last couple of seasons compared to the 90s/early 00s.

TC helped. I wonder what will happen in Monaco. If there were enough safety cars even a Fisichella could win the race :rotfl:

This present SC rules are really sad. You cant say rolling a dice is necessary for safety.

#39 Lantern

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 23:53

There is no Americanization of F1 yet.


When the full course caution is thrown for a single car spin where the car actually gets back on track and continues.........start worrying.;)



Oh...and I like the extra data on the screen. But, my set is 65".