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This is 2008, and F1 still isn't shown in High Definition.


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#1 Bluesmoke

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 16:53

:down:

Especially considering the amount of HDTV commercials shown in between breaks.

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#2 Perigee

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 16:58

Somebody - not sure from which country - said they were now watching F1 in high def....not sure if they were right or deluded. It might just be the case that the races are filmed using HD cameras but that (in the UK anyway) it only get broadcast in good old low-def.

I know the BBC have a high-def channel, but not sure whether ITV (the F1 broadcaster) do....I don't seem to have stumbled across it whilst channel-hopping.

#3 CaptnMark

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 17:06

I don't care.

I watch F1 on Analog Satellite (RTL), Digital Satellite (RTL), and Analog Terrestrial TV.

#4 lukywill

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 17:10

why do you want high definition with no adverts?
most of the people don´t care about hd.
they just want to watch and cannot.
watch it online.

#5 Hacklerf

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 17:27

Originally posted by lukywill
why do you want high definition with no adverts?
most of the people don´t care about hd.
they just want to watch and cannot.
watch it online.


What?

#6 travbrad

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 21:29

There is "hi-def" coverage available in some places, but it's only upscaled hi-def, not the real thing. In simple terms, upscaling takes standard resolution images and changes the pixels around to fit an HDTV resolution. It makes for a slightly clearer picture on an HDTV, but it's still not at the level of actual hi-def content. The cameras/equipment used to record the races aren't hi-def yet, so it's impossible to have an actual hi-def broadcast. Not sure why they are holding off on the switch to hi-def...it may save a few bucks but the switch is inevitable I would think.

That being said, HDTVs are pretty expensive and most people are still using standard TVs, so not a lot of people would actually benefit from a hi-def broadcast. I've also heard the adoption of HDTVs and hi-def broadcasts is lower in Europe (the main market for F1) than in America, so that may also have something to do with it. Even here in the states I only know a couple people who actually own a hi-def TV.

#7 Kabuto

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 21:51

I was watching the "fake" HD here in the states. It's certainly looks better than standard def but the resolution drops a bit when they switch to in car cameras.
Arent the TV rights handled per country? If so its probably incredibly difficult to get them all to upgrade to HD cameras.

#8 rage2

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 21:55

Originally posted by travbrad
That being said, HDTVs are pretty expensive and most people are still using standard TVs, so not a lot of people would actually benefit from a hi-def broadcast.

Here in Canada, everybody has HDTV, but not the equipment to receive HDTV signals. You can't even buy non-HDTV's anymore. I have 6 HDTV's in my house lol. If you've purchased a TV within the last 2 years, it's HDTV.

I can't even watch non HDTV broadcasts anymore, reality shows being the exception.

#9 Mat

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 22:39

Originally posted by Kabuto
I was watching the "fake" HD here in the states. It's certainly looks better than standard def but the resolution drops a bit when they switch to in car cameras.
Arent the TV rights handled per country? If so its probably incredibly difficult to get them all to upgrade to HD cameras.


From what i understand, FOM will be handling the TV production of 16 of the 18 races this year.

I am not sure if they are lugging their own cameras around the world or weather they just borrow from the host nations broadcaster. Id guess it is a mixture of both as i've read that FOM are slowly purchasing HDTV cameras and should be fully up and running within a year or two.

#10 Kabuto

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 22:47

Originally posted by Mat


From what i understand, FOM will be handling the TV production of 16 of the 18 races this year.

I am not sure if they are lugging their own cameras around the world or weather they just borrow from the host nations broadcaster. Id guess it is a mixture of both as i've read that FOM are slowly purchasing HDTV cameras and should be fully up and running within a year or two.





Thats good to hear. Apart from generally looking great, the extra detail could help show more clearly what happens when a part fails.

#11 Bluesmoke

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 07:15

Originally posted by lukywill
why do you want high definition with no adverts?
most of the people don´t care about hd.
they just want to watch and cannot.
watch it online.


I didn't say I want HD with no adverts. I'm saying it's rather ironic that I saw several Panasonic, Sony and Pioneer HDTV ads, yet F1 isn't available in HD. People don't care about HD?
If you saw what 1080p looks like on my JVC LCOS projector at 120 inches, you'd be singing a different tune.

In Canada, HDTVs are quite cheap. I own 2 and have a projector setup in my basement. TSN HD shows F1 in 16:9 widescreen. Which is an improvement, but it still isn't in HD. Watching these cars go by in HD is no doubt amazing!

#12 KiwiF1

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 07:24

Originally posted by rage2

Here in Canada, everybody has HDTV, but not the equipment to receive HDTV signals. You can't even buy non-HDTV's anymore. I have 6 HDTV's in my house lol. If you've purchased a TV within the last 2 years, it's HDTV.

I can't even watch non HDTV broadcasts anymore, reality shows being the exception.


Makes no difference to me, I live in New Zealand, we have a HDTV, but we have no broadcast in HD yet, F1 here is shown on Sky Satellite so we are hoping that maybe some broadcast by the end of the year, but that will mean we will have to buy another decoder just to receive a few programmes, no idea when terrestial will change.

So enjoy your TV's :wave:

#13 lustigson

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 08:19

Dutch tv broadcasters always lag behind a few years, so I'm not expecting HD Grands Prix any time soon. Hell, many tv stations switched to 16:9 format full time only last year! Then add that many so-called HD tv's sold in the Netherlands are just 'HD Ready', and there you have it. :rolleyes:

By the way, I'm still only watching on a six-year-old, some 65 cm, 16:9 format, old-school tv, and I'm not planning on buying anything new, soon. :cool:

#14 travbrad

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 08:38

Originally posted by Kabuto


Thats good to hear. Apart from generally looking great, the extra detail could help show more clearly what happens when a part fails.


Yep, plus things like tyre wear/graining would be a lot easier to see. I would have thought with all the little sponsor logos on cars/helmets/track side/etc they'd be pushing for hi-def coverage.

#15 fifi

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 08:42

Originally posted by rage2

Here in Canada, everybody has HDTV, but not the equipment to receive HDTV signals. You can't even buy non-HDTV's anymore. I have 6 HDTV's in my house lol. If you've purchased a TV within the last 2 years, it's HDTV.

I can't even watch non HDTV broadcasts anymore, reality shows being the exception.


its quite the opposite in the UK, we only have about 12 HD channels available on SKY(satellite),
it is pretty much a minority who has it at present

#16 jb_128

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 09:50

In Germany there is only one HD channel (Premiere) and they are cutting down on content instead of building it up. I'm not sure HDTV will catch on at all. :( We had the football world cup in HD on pay tv but the euro cup won't be in HD...

#17 MichiganF1

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 11:55

I didn't realize HD isn't catching on elsewhere. I have about 20-25 HD channels on my cable system, and certain sports on HD are the cat's ass. Hockey, football (especially night games), basketball...fantastic.

I can only imagine how good the night F1 race would be in HD.

#18 Clatter

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 12:12

Originally posted by MichiganF1
I didn't realize HD isn't catching on elsewhere. I have about 20-25 HD channels on my cable system, and certain sports on HD are the cat's ass. Hockey, football (especially night games), basketball...fantastic.

I can only imagine how good the night F1 race would be in HD.


The big difference is that the SD picture states side is so poor in comparison to ours.

#19 ingegnere

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 13:28

If you've ever watched a NASCAR race in HD, you'll realize how bad F1 broadcasts are.

Shame really, considering they had the equipment before anyone else.

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#20 peroa

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 13:34

Originally posted by MichiganF1
I didn't realize HD isn't catching on elsewhere. I have about 20-25 HD channels on my cable system, and certain sports on HD are the cat's ass. Hockey, football (especially night games), basketball...fantastic.

I can only imagine how good the night F1 race would be in HD.



Well, Europe is strange in that sense.

Just a couple of months ago they cancelled Pro7 and Sat.1 HD channels - (FTA satellite and cable channels).

Instead of increasing the channels and simultaneously making the switch to MPEG4 h.264 DVB-T, S, C, so that people can finnaly throw out their 20 year old Philips CRT TV out of the window, they go and say no to HD.


:stoned:

#21 Rubens Hakkamacher

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 18:30

I'll tell you how ridiculous it is:

My band just played a gig saturday night that was recorded with a two camera HD set up for a local on-demand cable company.

I'm in High Definition - but Formula One isn't????

Weird.

/ from what I know, FOM is already using HD cameras anyhow
// NASCAR has been in HD for awhile now - so there's no excuse

#22 SeanValen

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 18:55

BBC have a HD channel, who knows maybe f1 will be on that later.

#23 Clatter

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 19:03

Originally posted by SeanValen
BBC have a HD channel, who knows maybe f1 will be on that later.


I'd be surprised if it isnt next year. The Freeview sat reciever should be out this year, so there would then be less reliance on Sky.

#24 sebring

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 21:29

Originally posted by Clatter


The big difference is that the SD picture states side is so poor in comparison to ours.


Clatter, I think you hit the proverbial nail on the head when it comes to adoption rates of HD in North America versus Europe.

Setting aside Secam for a moment, PAL (general european standard) is 625 lines of resolution (though only 25 frames per second).

Whereas the piss-poor NTSC format, though at 29.97 frames per second, is only 525 lines.

Having lived in both Europe and North America, and watched both "Standard Definition" broadcasts in each, I can comfortably state that the PAL format appears much crisper, sharper, more detailed.

It may be the same concept (from an adoption standpoint) as we've seen with Mobile phones. North America is VERY slow to adopt newer phone technologies because there is already a very very good landline infrastructure. However countries like China for example have by-passed the landline phase of telephony and gone straight to cellular technologies.
Likewise, North America may be adopting HD faster than Europe because we have such a poor "technology" format with NTSC.

#25 fifi

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 07:49

Originally posted by Clatter


I'd be surprised if it isnt next year. The Freeview sat reciever should be out this year, so there would then be less reliance on Sky.


bbc hd is also available on cable

#26 vlcc

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 11:32

Originally posted by rage2

Here in Canada, everybody has HDTV, but not the equipment to receive HDTV signals. You can't even buy non-HDTV's anymore. I have 6 HDTV's in my house lol. If you've purchased a TV within the last 2 years, it's HDTV.

I can't even watch non HDTV broadcasts anymore, reality shows being the exception.


:up: LEGEND! - got 2 hd tvs - one 37" & brand new 1080p 47" 100hz in the uk - we have no hd feed as yet

bbc and itv are launching freesat www.freesat.co.uk in spring 2008. (isnt that NOW?)
this is definately including a new itv hd channel, however it is unclear wether they will show the F1 in these channels (btw, any info on this appreciated)

Whether you're into music, movies, travel, sport or natural history, you'll see the difference with HD TV. Watch the BBC's Planet Earth in HD TV and you'll feel like you can nuzzle up to a polar bear. Watch the Euro 2008 matches and the Beijing Olympics, and you'll see every rippling muscle as the teams battle it out. ITV1 is also launching its HD broadcasts in the Spring, so there'll be even more to choose from by the time freesat launches.


from freesat.co.uk
--
i think that for 2009 hd f1 is almost 100% guaranteed in the bbc hd channels.

#27 pacwest

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Posted 22 March 2008 - 07:27

F1 is shot in hi-def. Don't listen the those guys talking about "fake" hi-def.

Standard hi-def TV signal is 720p (1080i). That is the signal my system gets from Speed and ITV. It's right off the satellite feed. It gets converted down to SDTV for the unfortunate. Yes, I am lucky enough to get two different audio piggyback feeds, brit and yank. Sadly the yank feed is delayed 10 minutes so they can have Peter Windsor stomp around at the start.

If you think 1080p is "real" hi-def I have a bridge to sell you.

#28 NZX_Lorne

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Posted 22 March 2008 - 12:16

Originally posted by pacwest
Standard hi-def TV signal is 720p (1080i). That is the signal my system gets from Speed and ITV. It's right off the satellite feed. It gets converted down to SDTV for the unfortunate.

What "system" allows you to receive SPEED and ITV F1 coverage in HD? And what makes you think you are getting these channels in true HD and not simply 16:9 SD upscaled to 720p/1080i?

Here in Canada, in addition to SPEED's SD channel, we get ITV F1 coverage via TSN-HD which provides 16:9 SD upscaled to 1080i.... In the U.S. SPEED launched a new HD channel this year and it's F1 coverage is 16:9 SD upscaled to 720p.

#29 se7en_24

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Posted 22 March 2008 - 14:44

Will the freesat HD channels be available for free for Sky customers? I don't really want to have to add another tenner on my Sky bill just for F1 or have to run two separate satellite boxes.

#30 ringj

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Posted 22 March 2008 - 14:47

Originally posted by pacwest
F1 is shot in hi-def. Don't listen the those guys talking about "fake" hi-def.

Standard hi-def TV signal is 720p (1080i). That is the signal my system gets from Speed and ITV. It's right off the satellite feed. It gets converted down to SDTV for the unfortunate. Yes, I am lucky enough to get two different audio piggyback feeds, brit and yank. Sadly the yank feed is delayed 10 minutes so they can have Peter Windsor stomp around at the start.

If you think 1080p is "real" hi-def I have a bridge to sell you.


are you getting speed channel in hd? how? i didn't think they broadcast in hd

#31 ringj

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Posted 22 March 2008 - 14:52

for those who haven't yet watched hd sports...

it might sound weird, but once you see it in hd, and then the same thing in sd, sd almost seems out of focus and unwatchable...

#32 Hacklerf

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Posted 22 March 2008 - 15:17

Originally posted by ringj
for those who haven't yet watched hd sports...

it might sound weird, but once you see it in hd, and then the same thing in sd, sd almost seems out of focus and unwatchable...


100% agree, when someone comes over to watch the football, they say whats this HD all about, and i tell them, your watching it now. they are generally like, err what? then i flick to the same broadcast in SD and they cant believe the difference. When you see them side by side it really is night and day

#33 rye&ginger

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Posted 22 March 2008 - 16:51

Originally posted by pacwest
F1 is shot in hi-def. Don't listen the those guys talking about "fake" hi-def.

Standard hi-def TV signal is 720p (1080i). That is the signal my system gets from Speed and ITV. It's right off the satellite feed. It gets converted down to SDTV for the unfortunate. Yes, I am lucky enough to get two different audio piggyback feeds, brit and yank. Sadly the yank feed is delayed 10 minutes so they can have Peter Windsor stomp around at the start.

If you think 1080p is "real" hi-def I have a bridge to sell you.


:down:

They are shooting in widescreen SD, not HD. There has never been a time where I thought I was seeing HD. TSN in Canada gets the direct feed so there is no dbout, its not HD yet.

your cable/sat box is upconverting the signal, also the local HD station may be doing some upcovert also. But its no where near HD!

And no one expects a 1080p broadcast. 720p is expected; 1080i is garbage and should be abandoned as interlacing is a useless standard when you can have progressive broadcasting anyway.

#34 rage2

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Posted 22 March 2008 - 17:09

Actually, I believe they are shooting with HD cameras. Production is done in SD 16:9 (this is where it becomes SD). It's distrubuted in SD 16:9 and received by the world. TSNHD/SpeedHD gets the feed in SD 16:9 and converts it to 720p/1080i 16:9 and broadcasts it as such. So even tho you're viewing it on a HD 720p/1080i channel, you're watching SD widescreen because right there in the middle it's produced and distributed as such. Calling what we see HD is like calling a DVD played on an upscaler HD. It simply doesn't compare.

As for where we get the feeds, TSN-HD on Bell gets me the ITV feed, and SpeedHD on DirecTV gets me the other.