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Malayasian GP 2008: Friday Practice


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#51 PEW

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 09:17

Yes, Both Honda drivers did a low fuel run in the last 5 minutes of FP2 and both improved on their earlier times. Both tried to do the same in FP1 but Vettel's off caused both drivers to slow down in the final sector.

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#52 airwise

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 09:22

Originally posted by Durant


Doesnt take much for you to lose confidence in your boy does it?


You shouldn't confuse F1 fans with your own brand of blind lunacy. Some of us are actually able to appreciate the performance of others.

#53 race addicted

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 09:24

I'm a bit surprised that Williams didn't do more one-lap runs, as they aimed to improve in that area.

#54 abc

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 09:25

Looking at laptimes in FP2, I would say Ferrari are the fastest, then Lewis, then Trulli, then Heiki and then with some gap the rest closely bunched.
I would love to see nice result by Toyota, because this team is so underated here, of course I expect BMWs to be too strong for Toyotas at the end but anyway they seem to me as the team on its way up.

#55 AFCA

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 09:43

There were quite some problems this morning:

- Hamilton, Kubica (Rampf: ''We've had on oilpressure problem to the gearbox and we changed it. That goes faster than opening it up and look what's wrong with it.''), Alonso and Bourdais had gearboxproblems. A brake disc blew up on Vettel's car, Sutil's and Webber's engines went bust, Raikkonen came to a halt not having any fuel left because of a communication problem.

- A broken steering arm on Coulthard's RB4 led to a big shunt.

Horner rubbishes talks that the car would have been built too light: ''This car isn't build to fly, when you go through the air for two meters you shouldn't wonder about all the damage that is done.''

The teamboss blames the high kerbstones for Coulthard's crash: ''The frontwing broke off because of it and the suspension was damaged subsequently.''

In Australia Webber DNFed becuse a tie rod broke off when he lightly touched Davidson. Rampf: ''Cars should withstand something like that. The force on the car is tested in several different ways. Under braking, accelerating, extreme lateral acceleration and small collisions are part of it also.''

- Briatore thinks that Heidfeld, Kovalainen and both the Renault's are the only ones that didn't take out fuel.

#56 vsubravet

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 09:54

Originally posted by AFCA
There were quite some problems this morning:

- Hamilton, Kubica (Rampf: ''We've had on oilpressure problem to the gearbox and we changed it. That goes faster than opening it up and look what's wrong with it.''), Alonso and Bourdais had gearboxproblems. A brake disc blew up on Vettel's car, Sutil's and Webber's engines went bust, Raikkonen came to a halt not having any fuel left because of a communication problem.

- A broken steering arm on Coulthard's RB4 led to a big shunt.

Horner rubbishes talks that the car would have been built too light: ''This car isn't build to fly, when you go through the air for two meters you shouldn't wonder about all the damage that is done.''

The teamboss blames the high kerbstones for Coulthard's crash: ''The frontwing broke off because of it and the suspension was damaged subsequently.''

In Australia Webber DNFed becuse a tie rod broke off when he lightly touched Davidson. Rampf: ''Cars should withstand something like that. The force on the car is tested in several different ways. Under braking, accelerating, extreme lateral acceleration and small collisions are part of it also.''

- Briatore thinks that Heidfeld, Kovalainen and both the Renault's are the only ones that didn't take out fuel.


That's mystifying assuming Flavio is not talking out of his arse. Would that mean that the Ferraris were on Q2 mode when they did their FL? Or that NH, HK & Renault drivers were driving around loaded to the gills whilst the others were on a completely different programme. If so, then why only these drivers?

#57 Durant

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 10:31

Alonso set his fastest lap without second gear. Impressive.

#58 rolf123

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 10:34

Coulthard's "crash" is on youtube already. I'm amazed at how the car just fell apart, both front wheels.

Even the Toyota at Oz surprised me. A big bump sure, but cars shouldn't just "fall apart" like that.

#59 quasi C

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 10:34

Would that mean that the Ferraris were on Q2 mode when they did their FL?

I don't think so, Massa did his on a 10 lap stint.

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#60 Anomander

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 10:43

wasn't it reported in the practice thread that the ferraris while doing quite a few laps kept popping in for fuel top ups.


but forgetting that, while they may not have being on fumes, they was low on fuel.

#61 Will

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 10:44

I'm a bit more relaxed about Ferrari's advantage than others, since I feel that McLaren has the car that is more adaptable and easier to set up and in Lewis they didn't have much of a long-run drop off. I've got a feeling they might close the gap to Ferrari by Saturday.

#62 Galko877

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 10:50

Originally posted by vsubravet


Would that mean that the Ferraris were on Q2 mode when they did their FL?


I doubt that since both Kimi and Felipe were a relatively long stint when they set their fastest times (and much longer than Hamilton's when he set his fastets time). I beleive the Ferraris were also on hard compund tyres when they set their FL, while Hamilton was on soft.

#63 Formulaonefan

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 11:02

For reference Raikkonen set his fastest time on a 13 lap stint that was less than four tenths slower than Hamilton who set his time on a five lap stint. Massa's fastsest was on a 10 lap stint.Last year pole sitter Massa came in on lap 17 and winner Alonso on lap 18. (Hamilton on lap 20 and Raikkonen on lap 18).

Stint times
Kimi, Massa and Hamilton

Kimi
24 8:38.256
25 1:35.592
26 1:36.359
27 1:36.630
28 1:36.210
29 1:36.654
30 1:42.119
31 1:36.054
32 1:36.826
33 1:42.798
34 1:35.428
35 1:36.240
36 P 3:07.263
Massa
19 7:49.754
20 1:35.728
21 1:36.343
22 1:43.384
23 1:35.687
24 1:40.730
25 1:35.485
26 1:39.984
27 1:35.206
28 P 1:45.250

Hamilton
17 7:57.421
18 1:36.414
19 1:36.726
20 1:36.942
21 1:43.481
22 1:48.745
23 1:36.511
24 1:36.837
25 1:38.954
26 1:36.324
27 P 1:43.273

Fuel loads are unknown.

#64 HP

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 11:20

Originally posted by Durant
Piqeuts done a whole days testing here previously so no excuse for not knowing the track. Nows his chance to show what hes made of.

Not that far off from Alonso. Sure the loss of 2nd gear cost Alonso some tenths, but it's looking much better than in Melbourne.

#65 spwolf

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 11:26

Originally posted by HP
Not that far off from Alonso. Sure the loss of 2nd gear cost Alonso some tenths, but it's looking much better than in Melbourne.


we will see.... i have an feeling flavio is trying to be optimistic, still remembering his glory days.
in race pace last weekend, they were well behind the mid pack.

#66 race addicted

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 11:31

Originally posted by spwolf


in race pace last weekend, they were well behind the mid pack.


"Well behind" is an exxageration.
Take a look, they weren't too far behind Williams and BMW:

http://f1.autosport....8&submit=Submit

#67 wingwalker

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 11:31

Originally posted by race addicted


From early in first free, I've kept an eye on Renault vs BMW, and I think they're evenly matched, and Willliams aren't too far behind.



I'd guess BMW did their usual Friday job, so they were heavier than Renault. I'd put my money on them being quite noticeably faster. FP3 should tell us more.


BTW, it is worrying that Red Bull seems to be too sensitive for a second race in a row. DC was at high speed there, but still, two wheels coming off just like that? Trulli did a similar trick in FP2 with no damage at all (although he hit the kerbs a few meters earlier than DC)

#68 race addicted

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 11:47

Originally posted by wingwalker



I'd guess BMW did their usual Friday job, so they were heavier than Renault. I'd put my money on them being quite noticeably faster. FP3 should tell us more.


BTW, it is worrying that Red Bull seems to be too sensitive for a second race in a row. DC was at high speed there, but still, two wheels coming off just like that? Trulli did a similar trick in FP2 with no damage at all (although he hit the kerbs a few meters earlier than DC)


I'm aware of BMW's philosophy of always concentrating on the race (race set-up, race fuel levels), but I've not seen anything different from Renault today. Come Sunday I think they'll be sparring partners.

Yep, the fragility of the RB4 is a bit of a worry, but I'm not fearful of an exclusion.

#69 conkeso

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 12:52

Originally posted by race addicted


"Well behind" is an exxageration.
Take a look, they weren't too far behind Williams and BMW:

http://f1.autosport....8&submit=Submit


I'd take a wild guess and say that maybe the 2xWDC made the car look better than it was, just an assumption :blush:

#70 Slowinfastout

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 13:25

Looks like this is going to be a reliability year..

Some of the stuff happening is a bit too much on the iffy side, brake discs exploding, car self-destruct at slightest touch? this doesnt make a driver comfortable... cant fix that overnight too.. what kind of gamble are they making there.. :confused:

#71 HP

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 13:27

Originally posted by conkeso


I'd take a wild guess and say that maybe the 2xWDC made the car look better than it was, just an assumption :blush:

Well Piquet Jr. was in both practise session less than a tenth slower than Alonso. Obviously Alonso could have gone faster with a working 2nd gear. Tomorrow we'll know better, if it's not raining.

#72 tkulla

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 13:29

Does anyone have a link to complete lap times for the Friday practice sessions?

#73 HP

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 13:31

Originally posted by Slowinfastout
Looks like this is going to be a reliability year..

Some of the stuff happening is a bit too much on the iffy side, brake discs exploding, car self-destruct at slightest touch? this doesnt make a driver comfortable... cant fix that overnight too.. what kind of gamble are they making there.. :confused:

Could be an Adrian Newey Design. Fast but fragile car,

As for DC's shunt, brought back to me the incident at McLaren in 2001, where he found some lose screw in the cockpit, thought to being used for the suspension, but still decided to go out and drive anyway. The suspension didn't broke then though.

#74 Amrl

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 13:31

http://www.fia.com/m...agp/timing.html

#75 Enkei

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 13:34

Originally posted by HP
Could be an Adrian Newey Design. Fast but fragile car,

As for DC's shunt, brought back to me the incident at McLaren in 2001, where he found some lose screw in the cockpit, thought to being used for the suspension, but still decided to go out and drive anyway. The suspension didn't broke then though.


That was in Canada during the formation lap indeed :)

#76 tkulla

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 14:11

Originally posted by Amrl
http://www.fia.com/m...agp/timing.html


Thanks!

Jarno Trulli's lap times over a long stint look very good - he could be the class of the midfield on Sunday.

#77 Atreiu

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 14:13

Just wondering, have there been confirmed engines changes for the Ferraris for tomorrow and the race? Did anyone change gearbox?
Thanks.

#78 karlth

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 14:39

Originally posted by Atreiu
Just wondering, have there been confirmed engines changes for the Ferraris for tomorrow and the race? Did anyone change gearbox?
Thanks.


Teams are running used engines and gearboxes on fridays. They are always changed for saturday.

#79 Atreiu

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 14:46

I know that, allow me to rephrase.
The engines that failed at Kimi's and Massa's cars at Australia, have they been repaired and will be used this weekend or will both Ferraris be using new units?

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#80 ImmortaL

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 14:50

Originally posted by Atreiu
I know that, allow me to rephrase.
The engines that failed at Kimi's and Massa's cars at Australia, have they been repaired and will be used this weekend or will both Ferraris be using new units?


Both the Ferrari's will be using new Engines and they'll not be penalised as they didn't finish the last race.

#81 Jerome

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 15:03

Quick question regarding the assumed frailty of brake-ducts etc: is the outlawing of enginebraking perhaps one of the reasons for that?

#82 Johny Bravo

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 15:08

Originally posted by Atreiu
Just wondering, have there been confirmed engines changes for the Ferraris for tomorrow and the race? Did anyone change gearbox?
Thanks.


Though it was said after last weekend that both drivers shut down their engines to prevent going kaboom [so those engines - apart from the valves obviously - _might_ be still usable], I don't think they'd use those engines for this weekend.

#83 Johny Bravo

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 15:09

Originally posted by ImmortaL


Both the Ferrari's will be using new Engines and they'll not be penalised as they didn't finish the last race.


Is that rule still in force?

#84 Clatter

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 15:18

Originally posted by Johny Bravo


Is that rule still in force?


Yes, it's correct.

#85 wingwalker

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 15:19

Originally posted by Johny Bravo


Is that rule still in force?



Yup. Friday is still not a part of a race weekend, and therefore not under gearbox/engine regulations - it is a penalty free test (aside from speed limit and safety reasons). these are truly free practices (FP3, though, is a different matter).

#86 HSJ

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 15:26

Originally posted by HP
Could be an Adrian Newey Design. Fast but fragile car,


Indeed. And really the car isn't even that fast, look at Toro Rosso's sister car... That's Adrian Newey in this millenia for you! He was good at Williams when he was supervised, but once he gets his own way (McL, RB), he sucks. The cars are fast in theory, but not in practice (difficult to set up and drive, too sensitive to conditions, etc.), and of course fragile.

Signed,

Newey-hater ;)

#87 HSJ

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 15:29

Originally posted by ImmortaL


Both the Ferrari's will be using new Engines and they'll not be penalised as they didn't finish the last race.


Personally I think it is strange that Ferrari (or any team) can collect a DNF and points in the same race. And of course keep their points while changing their engines. I don't think that's right.

#88 primer

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 15:29

I can't make any sense of the midfield ):

At the bottom are Force India and Magma Aguri. Top two are Mclaren and Ferrari. But I find it hard to classify the speed of all other teams in-between. Today, after first practice it seemed to me "normal" order was being restored, but then second session changed everything. It seems this rather large mid-field is a lottery of sorts and anyone can get any position, so it is difficult to talk about their speed.

Here's hoping that qualifying gives some answers.

#89 Slowinfastout

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 15:33

Nobody worried about Red Bull not being allowed to race this week end?

How can they prove their car is safe when asked of them like today? Seems pretty serious to me..

What about next time we see them at Barca?

#90 race addicted

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 15:42

Originally posted by HSJ


Indeed. And really the car isn't even that fast, look at Toro Rosso's sister car... That's Adrian Newey in this millenia for you! He was good at Williams when he was supervised, but once he gets his own way (McL, RB), he sucks. The cars are fast in theory, but not in practice (difficult to set up and drive, too sensitive to conditions, etc.), and of course fragile.

Signed,

Newey-hater ;)


Webber has said that with the updates to the STR2/RB3, the RB4 is three tenths faster.

About Newey, it's one thing to design a world beater at Williams or McLaren, another to do it at Red Bull.
I think the car is quite fast, and really the mechanical reliability is very good, they've just had some unfortunate coming-togethers.

#91 wingwalker

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 15:47

Originally posted by Slowinfastout
Nobody worried about Red Bull not being allowed to race this week end?

How can they prove their car is safe when asked of them like today? Seems pretty serious to me..

What about next time we see them at Barca?



See Red Bull thread.

#92 snx843

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 16:38

Originally posted by Durant
Alonso set his fastest lap without second gear. Impressive.


Here Arrow, have a tissue.

#93 GiancarloF1

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 16:42

I'm amazed how much Honda was sandbagging in the off-season.

#94 Owen

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 16:45

Originally posted by GiancarloF1
I'm amazed how much Honda was sandbagging in the off-season.


I think they would deny that was the case. More that they just wanted to take their time to get to know the car prior to trying for performance gains / hot laps.

#95 Clatter

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 16:50

Originally posted by GiancarloF1
I'm amazed how much Honda was sandbagging in the off-season.


I don't think they were sandbagging. They said all along that the aero improvements would not be ready until late, so they concentrated on the mechanical side of things. We are now seeing the results of the aero coming on line, and I'm pleasantly surprised by how they appear to be performing, as I fully expected them to be nearer the back.

#96 mach4

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 17:52

Originally posted by primer
I can't make any sense of the midfield ):

At the bottom are Force India and Magma Aguri. Top two are Mclaren and Ferrari. But I find it hard to classify the speed of all other teams in-between. Today, after first practice it seemed to me "normal" order was being restored, but then second session changed everything. It seems this rather large mid-field is a lottery of sorts and anyone can get any position, so it is difficult to talk about their speed.

Here's hoping that qualifying gives some answers.


Looks like Renault might be ahead of only Force India and Aguri...

#97 noikeee

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 17:58

Originally posted by Clatter


I don't think they were sandbagging. They said all along that the aero improvements would not be ready until late, so they concentrated on the mechanical side of things. We are now seeing the results of the aero coming on line, and I'm pleasantly surprised by how they appear to be performing, as I fully expected them to be nearer the back.


Same here.

I think the reports that said they found something big in their final test in Jerez were right.

#98 cek

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 18:28

Originally posted by Durant
Alonso set his fastest lap without second gear. Impressive.

really?

#99 MichaelPM

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 18:34

Originally posted by cek

really?

Pat Symonds, executive director of engineering: "Fernando experienced a gearbox problem and he was unable to use second gear, which is quite a penalty around Sepang. In view of the new gearbox regulations, we decided that, even though this was a test gearbox, we would leave it on and continue running to see what happened. Before the end of the session the gearbox failed completely.

From the friday quotes.

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#100 Schumeister

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 18:38

Looking at the stint times it would apperar that Ferrari have an advantage in race trim, they are more consistent over the longer runs and still able to put in quick times at the end of the stint. It is difficult to tell though as we have no idea about fuel loads. Who has the fastest qualifying pace of Ferrari and Mclaren is even more unclear to me.