349 replies to this topic

[TFLB]

Was Button ever pushed by a rookie or unknown driver as hard as Adrian was pushed by Di Resta?

Adrian had the better strategies in the last few races whe the car was at its best, which hurt Paul and cost him potential points and bundles of time too. Adrain is a very good driver but Paul and Nico have much more to learn and are far less experienced so are the best pairing for them going forward.

I don't think Button ever had a rookie as a teammate...

Maybe Sutil did have better strategies sometimes, but that's because he qualified higher. And you neglect to mention that Di Resta's best result of the season, 6th in Singapore, was achieved with a far superior stategy than his teammate's and lucky timing with the safety car.

[FTATRWeSaluteYou]

The best option for Sutil would have been Renault!!
I repeat myself, he's one of the most underated driver on today grid. Give him the Mercedes and i think he will outperform both Rosberg and Schumacher.

lol. At the moment Sutil is the most OVERrated on(or off as the case should be) the grid.

Bye Bye Sutil. Your years of plodding around are over.

[sofarapartguy]

I don't think Button ever had a rookie as a teammate...

Maybe Sutil did have better strategies sometimes, but that's because he qualified higher. And you neglect to mention that Di Resta's best result of the season, 6th in Singapore, was achieved with a far superior stategy than his teammate's and lucky timing with the safety car.

Sato?

[Skanka]

Sato?

No, Sato started in 2002 alongside Fisichella at Jordan.

[Mastah]

Bernie doesn't care about him:

F1 chief executive Bernie Ecclestone, meanwhile, neglected to mention Sutil when he hailed the German presence on next year's grid.

"For Germany, we need Sebastian, Michael and the two Nicos," he is quoted by Kolner Express tabloid.

http://www.onestopst...India exit.html

[revlec]

Bernie doesn't care about him:

So the problem is that there are too many German drivers on the grid? he forgot to mention Glock.

[Tifosi4ever]

So the problem is that there are too many German drivers on the grid? he forgot to mention Glock.

Glock isn't an f1 driver. He drives for virgin.

[Fastcake]

So the problem is that there are too many German drivers on the grid? he forgot to mention Glock.

Who doesn't forget him nowadays? Shame since he's doing a good job down at the botton.

Bernie is right though. All the German attention is on Sebastian and Michael, with Nico hovering on the sideline until he really shines.

[tarmac]

I think it´s over. Didnt show anything worth mentioning in F1 just average

Bye bye

Edited by tarmac, 21 December 2011 - 19:16.

[F1ultimate]

He could make a good career as a Super Sub like Nick Heidfeld.

[fieraku]

Bernie doesn't care about him:

Who gives a sh** what Bernie cares for.

[Mastah]

There was Indian GP coming, we got 2 Indian drivers on the grid. There will be Russian GP, we had and probably will have Russian driver. I'm not saying Bernie supervises all deals, but it's good to be on his wishlist...

[marcoferrari]

I think it´s over. Didnt show anything worth mentioning in F1 just averageBye bye

Facts or just emotions? I would say the second...

Edited by marcoferrari, 21 December 2011 - 20:51.

[apoka]

There haven't been any news on Sutil for something like two weeks now, although a lot of things are probably going on in the background in the fight for that last Williams seat. Williams really is in a comfortable position to have a whole bunch of candidates with talent and/or cash for their 2nd seat, but I hope they won't wait until the first test to sign a driver.

[V8 Fireworks]

Kimi was the lead driver.

Except Kimi didn't perform like the lead driver when Massa has his team-mate especially in 2008.

[V8 Fireworks]

Sato?

Sato was very exciting in F3 from what I remember.;)

[apoka]

http://www.spiegel.d...,809615,00.html (German)

What I found interesting is that his manager Manfred Zimmermann said that they stopped negotiating with Williams weeks ago in December. Not sure why yet.

Currently, there seems to be a "Plan A", which allows him to race in F1 but can only be announced end of January and a "Plan B", which is likely to change to a different series or become 3rd driver in F1. Plan A seems to be rather unlikely as Zimmermann himself says that it would be a "surprise move". Even good 3rd driver roles (those with Friday FPs) seem to be difficult as most teams do not bother to use 3rd drivers (especially top teams). Is it possible for him to play a good role in a different series? I didn't see any rumours in that direction.

For 2013, it doesn't look too bad though. Not all of they young guns may impress and there could be a few retirements, which open opportunities for seats in F1.

[ivand911]

Lets the court thing finish, then for 2013 there will be interested teams. Ferrari could be one of them.

[sosidge]

Lets the court thing finish, then for 2013 there will be interested teams. Ferrari could be one of them.

Unless he has a seat waiting for him in 2012 pending a swift and undamaging resolution to the court case (would have to be paying to push a someone else out of a new team), Sutil will be out of F1 for good.

As much as I believe he is a greater talent than many of the drivers drafted in to F1 for 2012, his reputation isn't big enough to survive a sabbatical.

[Mastah]

Lets the court thing finish, then for 2013 there will be interested teams. Ferrari could be one of them.

Ferrari ? Mark my words - he never will be Ferrari F1 driver. Adriano will struggle even to return to F1.

[Sanman59]

The Williams team has no longer any sporting passion, it is just a business trying to make ends meet. Barrichello & Sutil would have offered far more to the team and to F1. Williams don't deserve any support or success.

Step Outside! This is an insult to Team Willy fans everywhere.

Edited by Sanman59, 18 January 2012 - 17:11.

[saudoso]

It's telling that Sutil wanted a 1 year term and Williams insisted on a 2 or 3 year deal and they could not agree.
Now Senna gets offered and accepts a 1 year term when he wanted a multy year deal.

Let me get this straight: You are actually implying that Williams didn't sign Sutil because the wanted a long term deal and Sutil would only go for one year?

[FTATRWeSaluteYou]

It's telling that Sutil wanted a 1 year term and Williams insisted on a 2 or 3 year deal and they could not agree.
Now Senna gets offered and accepts a 1 year term when he wanted a multy year deal.

Sutil was in no position to dictate terms of a contract.

Make no mistake if Williams actually wanted Sutil driving for them he would be. They didnt and hes not. Very telling.

[seahawk]

Sutil was in no position to dictate terms of a contract.

Make no mistake if Williams actually wanted Sutil driving for them he would be. They didnt and hes not. Very telling.

Sutil was never a reak option.

He is paydriver who brings less money than Senna
He has been in F1 for some years and never shown any potential
He has the criminal charges going

[GSF1]

It's telling that Sutil wanted a 1 year term and Williams insisted on a 2 or 3 year deal and they could not agree.
Now Senna gets offered and accepts a 1 year term when he wanted a multy year deal.

Think your shooting at the hip, in no website has this been made public, joe saward, plant-f1, grandprix.com, autosport, jamesallen.com, formula1.com, f1 technical, planet-f1.com. Please Please before saying anything give us some shred of credibility about what you are insinuating. If you find it, please post it, otherwise comments unfounded should be left outside. Regards

[ivand911]

Don't worry about Sutil , he will be OK.
But, you understand that Williams 2012 will be worst than LRGP 2011. I already hear BS fans saying at the end of 2012 , what **** that car was and how again BS didn't get real chance in F1 and how he deserve another season.
Sutil 2013 will be in Ferrari.

[FTATRWeSaluteYou]

Sutil 2013 will be in Ferrari.

[DanardiF1]

+1

If he gets prosecuted for the China incident, he's no use to ANY F1 team, because of the restrictions on entry some countries have with convicted persons...

[ivand911]

+1

If he gets prosecuted for the China incident, he's no use to ANY F1 team, because of the restrictions on entry some countries have with convicted persons...

So, we have the whole 2012 to find out? Even if he get suspended one-year sentence as prosecutor want, he will still get visas for any country as F1 driver.

Edited by ivand911, 19 January 2012 - 10:56.

[FTATRWeSaluteYou]

So, we have the whole 2012 to find out? Even if he get suspended one-year sentence as prosecutor want, he will still get visas for any country as F1 driver.

Theres a little problem in that no team wants Sutil, conviction or no conviction.

[ivand911]

Theres a little problem in that no team wants Sutil, conviction or no conviction.

Any proof for that? We will see in 2013. Are you Mr.Lux? Don't be shy. I know, it is not good to be glassed. Did the hate helps? Always wanted to know that.

Edited by ivand911, 19 January 2012 - 11:07.

[Vickyy]

Theres a little problem in that no team wants Sutil, conviction or no conviction.

I actually asked you many a times.
Being a crazy F1 fan, we like, love or dislike a driver and we have every right to have a say.
But HATE, why?

[FTATRWeSaluteYou]

I actually asked you many a times.
Being a crazy F1 fan, we like, love or dislike a driver and we have every right to have a say.
But HATE, why?

I am just stating cold hard facts.

[Vickyy]

I am just stating cold hard facts.

You really need to step out these notions.

[seahawk]

Face it Sutil got a drive by medion money. Medion now belongs to Lenovo so the money source might have gone dry. No money means no team has any intertest in Sutil. The possible conviction is just the icing on the cake.

Ferrari would not touch Sutil with a stick.

[MrFondue]

Face it Sutil got a drive by medion money.

I just love it when people are posting on something they don't know sh*t about.
Do you really think the huge amount of <2 million € from Medion got him in F1?
Or was it his Capri Sun deal worth less than 500k € a year?

Edited by MrFondue, 19 January 2012 - 12:51.

[FTATRWeSaluteYou]

I just love it when people are posting on something they don't know sh*t about.
Do you really think the huge amount of <2 million € from Medion got him in F1?
Or was it his Capri Sun deal worth less than 500k € a year?

Medion money was the biggest factor in his F1 drive. no money no drive,

Williams stopped talking to him once uncovered problems with his Medion finances. Pretty much definition of a pay driver right there.

[ivand911]

Medion money was the biggest factor in his F1 drive. no money no drive,

Williams stopped talking to him once uncovered problems with his Medion finances. Pretty much definition of a pay driver right there.

Or it was Sutil who stop negotiations with Williams? What he will achieve driving there? After one very good year with FI , he can only go down with team like Williams. They will fight with Caterham next year.

[Clatter]

Or it was Sutil who stop negotiations with Williams? What he will achieve driving there? After one very good year with FI , he can only go down with team like Williams. They will fight with Caterham next year.

So it's better to be out of F1 then is it?

[FTATRWeSaluteYou]

Or it was Sutil who stop negotiations with Williams? What he will achieve driving there? After one very good year with FI , he can only go down with team like Williams. They will fight with Caterham next year.

If he is as good as you say he is he would go to Williams and destroy Maldonado and raise his stock further. No, Sutil was not wanted..

[ivand911]

So it's better to be out of F1 then is it?

Ask him. Some people say Jaime turn down HRT offer for next year? Depend what plans you have for the future. Prost did the same in 1992? To win 1993. And we don't know what really happen with Williams.

Edited by ivand911, 19 January 2012 - 13:10.

[Sanman59]

Or it was Sutil who stop negotiations with Williams? What he will achieve driving there? After one very good year with FI , he can only go down with team like Williams. They will fight with Caterham next year.

What do you mean a team like Williams?

What 9 times WCC and one of the 3 most successful teams ever in F1?

They will be back make no mistake. One bad season is not a disaster.

A better team than Adrian Sutil will ever drive for. They are moving forward unlike AS who is finished in F1.

Ferrari? .....

Edited by Sanman59, 19 January 2012 - 15:26.

[August]

Sutil was never a reak option.

He is paydriver who brings less money than Senna
He has been in F1 for some years and never shown any potential
He has the criminal charges going

I think this is the only reason why Sutil wouldn't have been a good optionfor Williams, otherwise he would've been the best option.

[MrFondue]

One bad season is not a disaster.

One?

[Clatter]

Ask him. Some people say Jaime turn down HRT offer for next year? Depend what plans you have for the future. Prost did the same in 1992? To win 1993. And we don't know what really happen with Williams.

Prost was a proven winner and WDC so hardly compares. I'm going to go with him not driving this year is not through choice, but because no team wants him and sitting out for a season isn't going to make his chances for 2013 stronger.

[apoka]

Medion money was the biggest factor in his F1 drive. no money no drive,

The sponsorship he received in all his years in F1 is quite small compared to many other drivers. In particular, it is also much lower than the sponsorship for many of his competitors for a seat in F1.

no money no drive,

We have seen this before. Jenson and Rubens were almost out after 2008, Hulkenberg replaced by Maldonado, Heidfeld replaced by Senna last year etc. Not much money + criminal charges put Sutil in a bad position and it is not far fetched to say that this could well have played a role in negotiations. He is also not the best driver from a marketing point of view (the x-th German driver on the grid). On talent and experience alone, he would quite obviously deserve a seat in F1. Probably, he would also be a candidate for a top team if there had been a vacancy after 2011. Small things can make a huge difference in F1 careers.

[apoka]

Some slightly older news, but actually containing relevant quotes:
http://de.eurosport....der-plan-b.html

"Wir sind nicht nervös, weil nicht nur wir von Adrians Potenzial überzeugt sind, seine Leistungen 2011 sind auch verschiedenen Teamchefs nicht verborgen geblieben", gibt sich Zimmermann zuversichtlich. [...] "Für uns gilt es nun zunächst, die Gerichtsverhandlung Ende dieses Monats abzuschließen, damit ein Strich unter die Sache gezogen wird. Ab dem 1. Februar werden wir in unseren Verhandlungen konkret." [...] "Wir betrachten 2012 als ein Übergangsjahr und gehen das Projekt Formel 1 mit langfristigem Blick an", sagt Zimmermann. "Adrian wird nach seinen Leistungen und WM-Platzierungen der letzten beiden Jahre sicherlich auch langfristig in der Formel 1 engagiert sein. Wir planen nach wie vor mittelfristig bei einem Topteam anzudocken."

That sounds pretty much like the trial was a major issue in negotiations. At least his manager is optimistic that they can "start" negotiating at Feb 1. The last quotes sound pretty much like Sutil or his manager preferring a one year contract to move up to a top team (would be silly to insist on this imho), but it could also mean that they now look for a 3rd driver role to stay in the focus of F1 teams.

[Mastah]

"It was a very difficult decision," Fernley said.

"Adrian did have an exceptional season, he is an extremely talented driver, and as importantly an extremely nice person who fitted in well with the team.

"But we had to look at where we felt our long-term strengths lay. Adrian had been with us for a number of years, and we genuinely believed the future with us was with Paul [di Resta] and Nico.

"We looked at it very carefully. It wasn't something we rushed into, but we had very clear ideas as to where we wanted to build the team for the future.

"It was a close decision, and we felt it was time for Adrian to gain experience outside of Force India.

"We also looked at the whole package, in terms of his raw speed, what he was doing for the team in terms of feedback, knowledge and everything else, and we felt Nico edged it."

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/16876183

Says a lot - rookie with one season as a test driver is better package than someone with 5 seasons under belt .

PS. I'm sure Lux can confirm how extremely nice person Adriano is ;).

[marcoferrari]

Nice to have Adrian back... And a very good race from him today... Those last laps on SS tyres looked like an eternity to me (and to him I guess, too)... Still hoping, J.A. will join F1 sooner or later, too... Both deserve to be there...

Edited by marcoferrari, 17 March 2013 - 09:42.

[D.M.N.]

Driver thread that slipped through the radar, please read the new forum rules concerning this.