55 replies to this topic

[Derwent Motorsport]

With so much going on about our august "leader" and President ( I don't mean Mugabe!, although both are trying to cling to power!), some questions have come up about his past:
1) Was Sir Oswald's title hereditary and if so did Max decide not to take it up?
2) Where is Max's wealth come from as he claims not to be paid as FIA President?
3) As a close ally of Bernie, are there business links?

Anyone got the answers?

[Allan Lupton]

1. Sir Oswald was the 6th Baronet, so the title was hereditary.
Sir Oswald had three sons, Nicholas (b1923) by his first wife, and Alexander (b1938) and Max (b1940) by his second wife, so at birth Max would have been third in line to get the title.
I can't be bothered to find out more.
2 don't know
3. ditto

[David M. Kane]

At one time the family had extensive land/real estate holdings. He "allowed" Bernie to make a lot of money, thus BE is being supportive. I'll let you draw you're own conclusions. I'm sure it's all legal...

[kayemod]

Originally posted by David M. Kane
At one time the family had extensive land/real estate holdings. He "allowed" Bernie to make a lot of money, thus BE is being supportive. I'll let you draw you're own conclusions. I'm sure it's all legal...

I have no inside information of any kind, but I think it's a pretty safe bet that for anyone who wants to know some of the details as to how Max Rufus Mosley quite suddenly became very rich, just read the coming issue of the Sunday Times. Now that News International have got him on the run, they aren't going to let go. Only an educated guess I hasten to add, but tell me I'm wrong on Monday. Probably more 'bottoms-up' sex in NOTW as well.

[Buford]

Geez can't a guy get and give a good spanking anymore without all this hoopla?

[ShiftyDriver]

Max didnt need to pay those tarts to whip him...I'd have done a MUCH better job for absolutely nothing!

[Tom Moro]

And for good reason too ShiftyDriver!!

[Gary Davies]

Originally posted by Derwent Motorsport
2) Where is Max's wealth come from as he claims not to be paid as FIA President?

This bloke reckons he knows.
Alright, it's the much despised Rubython with all the baggage and motives implied. I offer the link with no further comment. By the way, you're looking at about the 11th para and the words Ecclestone and $300m.

[David Birchall]

"Sisters, the story of the Mitford sisters" gives a pretty fair account of Max's back ground and an excellent read:

http://www.amazon.co...y/dp/0393324141

Sorry, Max's mother was Diana Mitford, one of the sisters and wife of Sir Oswald Mosely after divorcing the heir to the Guiness fortune in favour of Mosely!

More here:
http://www.guardian....ntity.biography

[Cynic2]

I never thought I'd feel the least bit sorry for Max, but Rupert Murdoch and Tom Rubython are sure pushing me in that direction....

Cynic



.

[Ruairidh]

Originally posted by Cynic2
I never thought I'd feel the least bit sorry for Max, but Rupert Murdoch and Tom Rubython are sure pushing me in that direction....

Cynic



.

No, sorry. I cannot agree. I'm not going to say more, just this is, IMHO, richly deserved.

[Ruairidh]

Originally posted by David Birchall
"Sisters, the story of the Mitford sisters" gives a pretty fair account of Max's back ground and an excellent read:

http://www.amazon.co...y/dp/0393324141

Sorry, Max's mother was Diana Mitford, one of the sisters and wife of Sir Oswald Mosely after divorcing the heir to the Guiness fortune in favour of Mosely!

More here:
http://www.guardian....ntity.biography

Jonathan Guinnesses book is probably as good....and if you're interested in more on the Mitfords rather than Mosley specifically, Decca Mitford's Hons and Rebels gives easily the most insight (just read it knowing that she was one of the Redesdale girls and focus on the voice and attitude...). If you can bear the worlds most boring tome then the 2 volume Memoirs of their father and Mosley's grandfather, actually provides a view into why they the girls were so driven to be different......

[Andrew Stevens]

Having done some reading about the Mitford sisters, 'different' is a very appropriate term I think! Some people would use different terminology...

[LotusElise]

Originally posted by Ruairidh


Jonathan Guinnesses book is probably as good....and if you're interested in more on the Mitfords rather than Mosely specifically, Decca Mitford's Hons and Rebels gives easily the most insight (just read it knowing that she was one of the Redesdale girls and focus on the voice and attitude...). If you can bear the worlds most boring tome then the 2 volume Memoirs of their father and Mosely's grandfather, actually provides a view into why they the girls were so driven to be different......

The Guinness, Lovell and Mitford books are all great and give a different perspective on the story. Decca's book is also extremely funny in places.

I always thought that Max had set himself up with family money from either of the sides - there were probably trust funds and the suchlike, perhaps set up by other family members fearing the worst while both of his parents were imprisoned during the war. I can't remember who looked after the boys at this time, but it may have been their grandmother, Sydney.

[Allan Lupton]

Originally posted by LotusElise

both of his parents were imprisoned during the war.

Perhaps Max (b1940) was born in prison?

[Tim Murray]

No. Max was born on 13 April 1940. His mother Diana was not interned until the end of June.

[Tom Moro]

Apparently when Maxxx wanted to move to the Bar in 1967 the Sunday Times printed a story (in its colour supplement) saying he hoped to give up the Bar to be a professional driver. Maxxx was apparently furious because he thought it would damage his prospects at the Bar so he called his old man who said that he should simply get the paper to deny that he's giving up the Bar. Like father like son!!!!

[NRoshier]

money come from?...bernie it seems
http://www.sportspro....com/mosley.htm

[Tom Moro]

Still not sure of the source for that claim in the feature...

[Terry Walker]

On the title, Wikipedia says of Sir Oswald Mosley's eldest son Nicholas:

"Nicholas Mosley, 3rd Baron Ravensdale, 7th Baronet MC (born June 25, 1923) is a British novelist. He is the eldest son of Sir Oswald Mosley, 6th Baronet and Lady Cynthia Mosley, a daughter of Marquess Curzon of Kedleston. Diana Mosley (née Mitford) was his stepmother.

Born in London, Mosley was educated at Eton and Oxford and served in Italy during the Second World War, winning the Military Cross for bravery. He succeeded as the 3rd Baron Ravensdale in 1966 on the death of Mary Curzon, 2nd Baroness Ravensdale, his mother's sister. On the death of his father he also succeeded to the baronetcy."

The way British family fortunes used to work (in the days of entailed estates) was that they tended to go with the title. As 3rd son of Sir Oswald, Max was well down the pecking order.

[maoricar]

Maybe it's a generational 'thing'........I feel that there should be more contempt and approbrium directed at Moseley.
Motor racing has always had its share of participants with personality quirks or failings. Success or perfection on the track has never been equated to, or with, success or perfection in life........however..... a leader of ANY organization, is, IMHO, supposed to be a person of greater integrity, judgement, and yes, where appropriate, morals, than the rest of us.
When one aspires to and accepts high office.....ANY high office, they also accept the fact that their every move will be scrutinized and , possibly, criticised. And that scrutiny is what provides the checks and balances that the greater body needs...in order to be assured that everything is aboveboard.
Bernie may feel that Moseley's private activities should be ignored...they cannot and should not
Moseley, had he ANY character at all, should have resigned

[Charles Helps]

Fascinating stuff but how do you spell his surname - I've seen three versions in this thread so far! Mosley would seem to be most accurate.

[Tom Moro]

Thats the one Charles and the first name is Maxxx

[ensign14]

Mosley is descended from people who owned Manchester just when the Industrial Revolution started. There's a Mosley Street somewhere in the city centre there. Hence the family wealth.

[RTH]

Another 5 page report in todays NOTW.

[Tom Moro]

Bernie must be spitting feathers that he doesn't have the rights on that footage...

[LotusElise]

Originally posted by maoricar
Maybe it's a generational 'thing'........I feel that there should be more contempt and approbrium directed at Moseley.
Motor racing has always had its share of participants with personality quirks or failings. Success or perfection on the track has never been equated to, or with, success or perfection in life........however..... a leader of ANY organization, is, IMHO, supposed to be a person of greater integrity, judgement, and yes, where appropriate, morals, than the rest of us.
When one aspires to and accepts high office.....ANY high office, they also accept the fact that their every move will be scrutinized and , possibly, criticised. And that scrutiny is what provides the checks and balances that the greater body needs...in order to be assured that everything is aboveboard.
Bernie may feel that Moseley's private activities should be ignored...they cannot and should not
Moseley, had he ANY character at all, should have resigned

I agree. It is very hard to take someone seriously when that kind of image (the ones from the NOTW, which I haven't seen) associates itself with that person. If the president of the FIA is a figure of ridicule, then the name of motorsport is also open that bit more to ridicule.

[Tom Moro]

I agree LotusElise and would add that such ridicule cannot be 'undone'. Now that the genie is out of the bottle it cannot go back in unless Maxxx knows how to induce mass amnesia...

[Ruairidh]

Originally posted by Charles Helps
Fascinating stuff but how do you spell his surname - I've seen three versions in this thread so far! Mosley would seem to be most accurate.

It is Mosley. I mis-spelled it late last night.....

[Allen Brown]

Originally posted by maoricar
... a leader of ANY organization, is, IMHO, supposed to be a person of greater integrity, judgement, and yes, where appropriate, morals, than the rest of us.

[matey]

Three of the Mitford sisters were minor shareholders in March Engineering in its early days - Max's mother, Diana, Pamela Jackson and Deborah, Duchess of Devonshire.

In addition the aforementioned Jonathan Guinness was both a shareholder and a director.

[rateus]

Now that the genie is out of the bottle it cannot go back in unless Maxxx knows how to induce mass amnesia...

He's had a lot of success curing mass insomnia, particularly among habituees of this forum, so who knows... :yawn:

Isn't it about time someone invoked the FIA's favourite regulation, the one about 'conduct detrimental to motorsport' - or does that just apply to drivers and teams that speak their minds?

[Tom Moro]

It appears that there is such a clause in the statutes that applies to Maxxx himself:

Section E (5) details how people can be expelled from the FIA and includes the clause allowing for those ‘who by words, deeds or writings have inflicted moral injury and loss on the FIA'.

http://blogs.notw.co.../tape-that.html

[kayemod]

Originally posted by rateus


He's had a lot of success curing mass insomnia, particularly among habituees of this forum, so who knows... :yawn:

Surely you mean 'inducing'.

[Vitesse2]

No, he means curing. I've slept through a few GPs ....

[kayemod]

Originally posted by Vitesse2
No, he means curing. I've slept through a few GPs ....

Well I still mean inducing. A good lunch, a G & T and a couple of glasses of vino, and I've often dropped off during a race, but that's what I mean, it's just drowsiness, not really sound sleep. I'm sure a bit more messing about with the regulations could fix that problem.

[sterling49]

Originally posted by Vitesse2
No, he means curing. I've slept through a few GPs ....

......in fact, just this very afternoon....zzzzzzzzzzzzzz.zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[GeoffR]

Not particularly about Max, but it does involve one of his underlings at the FIA.

the much despised Rubython

Must admit I don't know much about Tom Rubython, but I thought that the libel case he won against Richard Woods, the FIA's director of communications, was interesting.

"The editor of BusinessF1 Magazine, Tom Rubython, yesterday won a libel action in the High Court against Richard Woods, director of communications for the Federation Internationale de l' Automobile (FIA).

After a three-day trial before a jury Mr. Rubython was awarded damages of 17,000 (english pounds) and Mr. Justice Gray ordered Mr. Woods should pay Mr. Rubython's costs on an indemnity basis from June 2006 onwards. The total costs, payable by Mr. Woods, of both Mr. Rubython and the magazine plus those of Mr. Woods are approximately UK 250,000 pounds(US $480,000).

The FIA, which supported Mr. Woods during the action, had previously stated in open court that they were funding the action and the FIA are therefore likely to have to foot the bill for both side's legal costs. It is not known whether Mr. Woods will be left to pay the damages personally.

Background
Tom Rubython sued Richard Woods after an anonymous Internet and email attack was mounted against him. Mr. Woods admitted posting an article on the Wikipedia website on 6th January using a false name and then being responsible for the sending of emails ( which were also send with false names) containing the article to motorsport industry personalities on 9th January 2006. Mr. Woods denied responsibility for the three more websites created anonymously that also contained similar material.

Mr. Woods accuses Mr. Rubython of continually surrounding himself with criminals during his 25 year career in business and journalism. Mr. Rubython initially asked only for an apology and undertaking not to repeat the allegations but the jury rejected his defense returning a unanimous verdict in favour of Mr. Rubython."

Tom Robython said: "The injustice of this anonymous attack on me personally by Richard Woods has been shown. If Mr. Woods had apologized a year ago none of this would have been necessary but I was determined to clear my name of the slur that I had surrounded myself with criminals for my entire career."

Indemnity Costs Order
Mr. Woods was ordered to pay indeminty costs (rather than on the standard basis) after he had sued Mr. Rubython for an article that he had published about him in BusinessF1 in April 2006. (At an earlier hearing on 25th October 2006 Mr. Rubython had offered a settlement involving mutual apologies and undertaking in relation to their respective claims. Mr. Woods rejected this offer which turned out to be substantially more generous to Mr. Woods than the final outcome following the trial by jury yesterday.

This is how executives of the FIA go about their business? Time for - broom, clean sweep ......

[ensign14]

Rubython WON one????? Wow.

[GeoffR]

Rubython WON one?????

OK so what's his background? Is he as bad as Max?

[Tom Moro]

Amazingly even Rubython's credibility now outstretches Maxxx's by, oooh, a good few miles

[Andrew Stevens]

So how is the FIA director of communications posting false messages about someone and attacking them via e-mail??? Isn't that slightly outside his remit - even if it's Tom Rubython?

Perhaps he should be discussed at the FIA general assembly as well...especially as funds of the FIA have paid for this little exercise....

[ensign14]

Originally posted by GeoffR


OK so what's his background? Is he as bad as Max?

He's lost a good few libel cases brought by FIA/FOM officials in the past (IIRC Woods and Purnell for starters, I think maybe one of Bernie's mates as well), so doubtless this was why the FIA agreed to fund the defence to this particular action. Rubython was editor of F1 Magazine (the Berniemag) and tends to have a prodigious output...but was denied a paddock pass after he left F1 Magazine and has had some harsh words about everyone involved in F1 since...

[Red Socks]

If TNF can look forward, the question that emerges must rotate around Max' enthusiam for replicas.
Given that he is gone and that it has been his big push to accept replicas in ''Old looking car racing' will a new encumbent find the same enthusiasm. If not what happens to the proud owners of the new cars. In a way even worse will it just take us back to the bad old days of dishonest replicas-fakes to you and me-rather than the run on cars.

[Patrick Fletcher]

Originally posted by Red Socks
If TNF can look forward, the question that emerges must rotate around Max' enthusiam for replicas.

......... the fact that the Chelsea Five Hour can now rival the Goodwood Nine Hour will long be debated ....

[Mallory Dan]

But I wonder how much of the 5 Hours was spent 'on the track' as it were, and how much 'in the Pits refuelling' with tea and bickies...

[Patrick Fletcher]

guess it was what his engineer worked out in pre race strategy - max on track - min in pits

[GeoffR]

But did he have an FIA approved 'refuelling rig'? And was he using that new, blue coloured (so they tell me) 'rocket fuel'?

[Nick Wa]

Is this "new, blue coloured (so they tell me) 'rocket fuel' " for lead replacement?

[kayemod]

I didn't want to start a new thread for this, and as this old one is more or less relevant, I thought I'd post here. I don't know if there are many regular Financial Times readers on TNF, but a lengthy article and interview with Max Rufus Mosley was published in last Friday's February 4th issue of the FT Magazine. Written by Lucy Kellaway and entitled Max Mosley Fights Back, this piece gives an astonishing insight into the man's lifestyle and thought processes, for example he keeps a second house near his main London residence where he works and sleeps "To keep himself out of his wife's hair", though maybe given Max-style wealth, resources and past behaviour, this disclosure isn't all that surprising. For anyone not a subscriber, I'm not sure how easy the FT website is to access, but I'm sure that some of this material will surface elsewhere over the next week or so. While it's obviously somewhat one-sided, when Max speaks there aren't many pauses or interruptions of flow, it gives a remarkable insight into his views and persona, I urge anyone who can access the FT site or find a copy of the magazine to do so. I'll warn you though, that even if you thought that there wasn't much that could provide fresh shocks where the man's beliefs and attitudes are concerned, you'll probably be surprised anew. It all reminded me of a John Cleese line from the Monty Python Dead Parrot Sketch, "Don't play the slippery eel with me, my good man".