Bahrain GP 2008 - post race comments
#1
Posted 06 April 2008 - 13:29
BMW have definately had a faster race-car than McLaren here. Over one lap with fresh tires I'd say their car is as fast as Ferrari's. Great results and great driving from both drivers.
Low-key weekend for McLaren, OK performance from Kovalainen, off-colour weekend from Hamilton.
Fastest lap by Kovalainen was the result of fresh tires late in the race, with a light fuel load. Paremeters no-one else had.
Trulli and Toyota continue to do well, and are clearly well established as the fourth fastest package.
Webber had a fantastic race I think, to stay so close to Trulli and beat Rosberg. Contender for man of the race IMO. DC.... a weekend to forget, as soon as possible.
A shame what happened to Button at the start, 'cause his pace lying last was very good.
Alonso and Renault packs up point-less. Hard fights with others, and also with the R28.
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#2
Posted 06 April 2008 - 13:31
We've not even had a wet race yet either. Can't wait for that.
Regards
Andy
#3
Posted 06 April 2008 - 13:32
First time ever in this situation Massa didnt slow down Kimi.
Total disaster for Hamilton. I wonder what happened at the start, car or driver problem.
#4
Posted 06 April 2008 - 13:33
Kimi did well to get enough points to take the lead in the WDC.
Kubica said he hit some oil & debris in the early laps but did well to recover.
Nick's 4th in the race but 2nd in the WDC!
First four drivers have all driven for Sauber!
#5
Posted 06 April 2008 - 13:33
1. Explanation of Hamilton's poor / desastrous start
2. Effects on pace for LH and FA after the incident / brake testing / .. (whatever suits your brain)
#6
Posted 06 April 2008 - 13:34
It was good to see somebody else on pole for a change, but a shame that it ultimately counted for not much at all really.
The race was as dull as dishwater and the only interesting thing that happened the entire race was the 'whatever that was all about' incident between Alonso and Hamilton.
As a Brit and Hamilton fan it was a pity on one hand that he scored no points, but good on the other side that the championship battle remains open as we enter the European leg of the season.
A tedious race but good for setting up a decent mid-season and hopefully final part.
#7
Posted 06 April 2008 - 13:34
#8
Posted 06 April 2008 - 13:34
He dominated Kimi in qualifying and race, won his first race from non-pole position and picked himself up after a difficult start to season.
Kimi Seems to stuggle with this track but picked enought points to take the lead in the WDC
Nice overtake on Kubica!
BMW were VERY STRONG! They spanked McLaren's ass and were right behind Ferrari. Good job from both drivers.
BMW leading the WCC Mario must be proud.
A weekend to forget for Hamilton. His worst race ever.
#9
Posted 06 April 2008 - 13:35
Massa, on his day, can be faster than Raikkonen. It is a pity he seems to be rather irregular.
The BMWs are in the hunt, with Kubika ahead of Heidfeld (which does not surprise me)
Hamilton is not living up to his hype and Kovalainen is not fast enough to challenge Ferrari and BMW
Alonso is definitely out of the podium chase. Unless things improve a lot he will get nowhere.
#10
Posted 06 April 2008 - 13:35
His first laps battle with Kovalainen was an important step towards finishing 2nd.Originally posted by riffola
Kimi did well to get enough points to take the lead in the WDC.
#11
Posted 06 April 2008 - 13:36
Originally posted by Imperial
Hmmm...a pretty boring race weekend all round.
It was good to see somebody else on pole for a change, but a shame that it ultimately counted for not much at all really.
The race was as dull as dishwater and the only interesting thing that happened the entire race was the 'whatever that was all about' incident between Alonso and Hamilton.
As a Brit and Hamilton fan it was a pity on one hand that he scored no points, but good on the other side that the championship battle remains open as we enter the European leg of the season.
A tedious race but good for setting up a decent mid-season and hopefully final part.
like the battle would not be open if hamilton didnt ****up
#12
Posted 06 April 2008 - 13:36
He'll be fast at Spa, Monaco, Nurburgring and easily have the measure of Massa there, but in terms of Turkey and Bahrain, Massa likes the desert, Kimi hates the desert, neither have the consisntency over the season as Schumacher did, that is very clear with every passing race.
Kimi must improve qualifying on certain tracks.
But good race by ferrari, strong team result,
BMW and KUBE, good addition.
Alonso and Hamilton accident, interesting.
#13
Posted 06 April 2008 - 13:37
1 point seperates team 1 from 2 and team 2 from 3. My bet however would be on Ferrari and Kimi.
#14
Posted 06 April 2008 - 13:37
Congratulations to Felipe, though I think everyone knows that he is not really going to win the WDC, but atleast he can run close 2nd with these odd wins. :
Kimi was 'weak', but still got P2.
Kovalinen was anonymous. I think he didn't show the true pace of Mercedes car, if Lewis had a normal start and no accidents, the P3 might have been theirs.
Hamilton was amateurish today. Laughable start (which was really a non-start), ramming Fernando, and then silly gestures to Fisichella for having the audacity to race against him.
Poor start by Kubica, but then I do not think they'd have won today anyway. Heidfeld should study Robert's setup and telemetry for it will make him a better driver.
Button and Coulthard == dumb and dumber.
#15
Posted 06 April 2008 - 13:39
Massa completely proved me wrong so good on him for that. Finally off the mark in terms of his championship charge!
Mclaren lost out badly this race losing their lead in both championships. At the moment our pace is that of the third fastest team. BMW has gotten ahead of them and they really need to get their heads down and push for more developments come three weeks time in Spain.
Ferrari easily walked this, they are still a bit ahead of BMW as even with their engines turned down and the BMW's pushing, they were able to pace their way till the end of the race comfortably.
Trulli has been doing really really well, good on him, though I don't care much for Toyota.
JB vs DC, was pretty interesting, did JB lose it when DC closed the door and had to brake hard, or did he lose it, hence unable to do anything when DC closed the door?
Hamilton vs Alonso looks like a mistake on Alonso's part on the corner which led to Hamilton not reacting fast enough to not drive into the back of him.
Watching the scrap between Rosberg and Trulli was fun!
#16
Posted 06 April 2008 - 13:40
Originally posted by Tcas
BMW is now the second best team.
No, it was just this track and Mclaren weren't at their finest this weekend. To be sure BMW are fast but still a step behind Mclaren. Normal service will resume from next race onwards, rest assured.
#17
Posted 06 April 2008 - 13:41
Massa - Controlled the race, outqualified his teammate heavily with more fuel.
Kimi - Poor race by his standard but still did enough for 2nd, takes the lead of the WDC.
BMW -
Kubica - Good race, outfought by Raikkonen.
Heidfeld - Took his chances and had some good pace.
McLaren -
Hamilton - Poor in every way.
Kovaleinen - Quite and didn't show anything special apart from the outstanding start.
#18
Posted 06 April 2008 - 13:41
Originally posted by SeanValen
Kimi still has qualifying issues on some tracks, maybe he was better on Michelin.
He'll be fast at Spa, Monaco, Nurburgring and easily have the measure of Massa there, but in terms of Turkey and Bahrain, Massa likes the desert, Kimi hates the desert, neither have the consisntency over the season as Schumacher did, that is very clear with every passing race.
Kimi must improve qualifying on certain tracks.
But good race by ferrari, strong team result,
BMW and KUBE, good addition.
Alonso and Hamilton accident, interesting.
your hero retired moveon
#19
Posted 06 April 2008 - 13:41
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#20
Posted 06 April 2008 - 13:41
Originally posted by SeanValen
neither have the consisntency over the season as Schumacher did, that is very clear with every passing race.
No it's not very clear at all if you are not a MS fanboy. The Schumacher consistency is a myth especially during his latter years when his car was not uber dominant like in 2002 and 2004.
#21
Posted 06 April 2008 - 13:42
It will be close for 2nd between McLaren and BMW.
#22
Posted 06 April 2008 - 13:43
Massa was great.
Bimmer has great speed as well.
Hamilton's behaviour when passing cars was despicable.
#23
Posted 06 April 2008 - 13:43
lol just name a year except 2003 or 05 one. That were years when Ferrari had problem with B tyres.Originally posted by DoubleWDC
No it's not very clear at all if you are not a MS fanboy. The Schumacher consistency is a myth especially during his latter years when his car was not uber dominant like in 2002 and 2004.
#24
Posted 06 April 2008 - 13:43
Originally posted by primer
No, it was just this track and Mclaren weren't at their finest this weekend. To be sure BMW are fast but still a step behind Mclaren. Normal service will resume from next race onwards, rest assured.
Bmw blew off Mclaren at Sepang also.
#25
Posted 06 April 2008 - 13:44
#26
Posted 06 April 2008 - 13:45
Originally posted by cartman
I have to say hats off to Massa
He dominated Kimi in qualifying and race, won his first race from non-pole position and picked himself up after a difficult start to season.
Kimi Seems to stuggle with this track but picked enought points to take the lead in the WDC
Nice overtake on Kubica!
BMW were VERY STRONG! They spanked McLaren's ass and were right behind Ferrari. Good job from both drivers.
BMW leading the WCC Mario must be proud.
A weekend to forget for Hamilton. His worst race ever.
Agreed, Massa was invincible today, a truely deserved win which couldn't have come sooner for him. BMW were indeed very strong and if they Barcelona update is stronger than Ferrari and Mclaren's, then we might have a 3-way fight this year.
rodlamas, do you still think that Ferrari's management is incompetent and you were right all along throughout the winter?
#27
Posted 06 April 2008 - 13:47
Congrats to Kimi for leading the driver championship.
Ahnd the BMWs are very strong
I wonder why they put fast laps out of nowhere at last laps?
What happen to Jenson and Lewis?
#28
Posted 06 April 2008 - 13:47
how is that exactly?Originally posted by RSNS
The BMWs are in the hunt, with Kubika ahead of Heidfeld (which does not surprise me)
Overall, Heidfeld leads in the WDC
This race, RK lost 2 positions while NH gained 2.
Ahh, Robert has 2 podiums and a pole...
The BMW pair are evenly matched with different skills.
Robert has better raw speed and is quicker than Nick when things go right.
Nick has more racecraft and passing ability, (3 on track this race).
To me, that is the perfect driver pairing....
#29
Posted 06 April 2008 - 13:47
I'm very, very impressed by BMW! To be honest I didn't beleive they would be serious title-contenders this year yet, but I have to revision that opinion now. They are leading in the WCC and Heidfeld is 2nd in the WDC only 3 points off from Kimi. Wow! Well done to Kubica as well!
#30
Posted 06 April 2008 - 13:48
Kubica was good, which is becoming a habit for him. Heidfeld seems a bit on and off this year. He can be lightning fast for a few laps, but mediocre for the rest of the race.
Hamilton had a crappy start, ran into Alonso and was slow as hell throughout the race, even when he had a clear road. A very bad race from him. Kovalainen solid, but only found good speed on the hard tyre at the end of the race, when it was too late.
It seems the harder tyre was clearly better today. It would've been interesting to see what had happened if one of the top guys started on the hards.
#31
Posted 06 April 2008 - 13:51
Originally posted by Tcas
Bmw blew off Mclaren at Sepang also.
Just you wait, Mercedes are going to be stronger, they'll be challenging Ferrari for wins and not fighting for P3-P6 against BMW. BMW will keep both these guys honest, let us see.
#32
Posted 06 April 2008 - 13:51
#33
Posted 06 April 2008 - 13:52
2 3 Nick Heidfeld BMW 48 15:50:44 208.231 1:33.565
3 2 Felipe Massa Ferrari 38 15:34:12 208.153 1:33.600
4 1 Kimi Räikkönen Ferrari 35 15:29:34 207.911 1:33.709
5 4 Robert Kubica BMW 55 16:01:39 207.765 1:33.775
6 7 Nico Rosberg Williams-Toyota 57 16:05:37 207.109 1:34.072
7 11 Jarno Trulli Toyota 45 15:46:23 206.819 1:34.204
8 10 Mark Webber Red Bull-Renault 51 15:55:56 206.597 1:34.305
9 12 Timo Glock Toyota 56 16:04:16 205.503 1:34.807
10 17 Rubens Barrichello Honda 40 15:38:29 205.399 1:34.855
11 21 Giancarlo Fisichella Force India-Ferrari 56 16:04:43 204.963 1:35.057
12 6 Nelsinho Piquet Renault 31 15:24:22 204.808 1:35.129
13 5 Fernando Alonso Renault 35 15:30:24 204.668 1:35.194
14 19 Anthony Davidson Super Aguri-Honda 45 15:48:10 204.389 1:35.324
15 14 Sebastien Bourdais STR-Ferrari 33 15:27:41 204.369 1:35.333
16 9 David Coulthard Red Bull-Renault 43 15:45:18 204.331 1:35.351
17 8 Kazuki Nakajima Williams-Toyota 30 15:22:33 204.155 1:35.433
18 20 Adrian Sutil Force India-Ferrari 55 16:05:16 204.136 1:35.442
19 22 Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 25 15:14:42 203.969 1:35.520
20 18 Takuma Sato Super Aguri-Honda 56 16:05:56 203.180 1:35.891
21 16 Jenson Button Honda 11 14:52:27 202.686 1:36.125
#34
Posted 06 April 2008 - 13:52
#35
Posted 06 April 2008 - 13:52
Originally posted by The Big Guns
JB vs DC, was pretty interesting, did JB lose it when DC closed the door and had to brake hard, or did he lose it, hence unable to do anything when DC closed the door?
In his interview with ITV, JB said that in driver briefings, they had agreed not to move around in the braking zones.
So the story is... JB saw a gap and dived for it, but in the braking zone, DC moved across leaving JB nowhere to go except to call off the overtaking move and just start trying to avoid DC instead.... but as we saw it didnt work.
In some minor defence of DC, drivers have said modern day F1 mirrors are useless.
#36
Posted 06 April 2008 - 13:52
PROVISIONAL RACE RESULTS The Bahrain Grand Prix Bahrain International Circuit, Sakhir, Bahrain; 57 laps; 308.238km; Weather: Sunny. Classified: Pos Driver Team Time 1. Massa Ferrari (B) 1h31:06.970 2. Raikkonen Ferrari (B) + 3.339 3. Kubica BMW Sauber (B) + 4.998 4. Heidfeld BMW Sauber (B) + 8.409 5. Kovalainen McLaren-Mercedes (B) + 26.789 6. Trulli Toyota (B) + 41.314 7. Webber Red Bull-Renault (B) + 45.473 8. Rosberg Williams-Toyota (B) + 55.889 9. Glock Toyota (B) + 1:09.500 10. Alonso Renault (B) + 1:17.181 11. Barrichello Honda (B) + 1:17.862 12. Fisichella Force India-Ferrari (B) + 1 lap 13. Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes (B) + 1 lap 14. Nakajima Williams-Toyota (B) + 1 lap 15. Bourdais Toro Rosso-Ferrari (B) + 1 lap 16. Davidson Super Aguri-Honda (B) + 1 lap 17. Sato Super Aguri-Honda (B) + 1 lap 18. Coulthard Red Bull-Renault (B) + 1 lap 19. Sutil Force India-Ferrari (B) + 2 laps Fastest lap: Kovalainen, 1:33.193 Not classified/retirements: Driver Team On lap Piquet Renault (B) 42 Button Honda (B) 20 Vettel Toro Rosso-Ferrari (B) 1 World Championship standings, round 3: Drivers: Constructors: 1. Raikkonen 19 1. BMW Sauber 30 2. Heidfeld 16 2. Ferrari 29 3. Hamilton 14 3. McLaren-Mercedes 28 4. Kovalainen 14 4. Williams-Toyota 10 5. Kubica 14 5. Toyota 8 6. Massa 10 6. Renault 6 7. Trulli 8 7. Red Bull-Renault 4 8. Rosberg 7 8. Toro Rosso-Ferrari 2 9. Alonso 6 10. Webber 4 11. Nakajima 3 12. Bourdais 2 All timing unofficial
#37
Posted 06 April 2008 - 13:53
Originally posted by tormave
What the was Hamilton gesturing to Sato and Fisichella when passing?
Heh, I think that was just Formula 1's class system in evidence, teams like Mclaren etc are clearly 'superior' in more ways than one to Magma Aguri, Force India etc. No wonder the driver might feel that way too.
"Move outta my way, I'm Lewis Hamilton you fools!"
#38
Posted 06 April 2008 - 13:54
Congratulations on today's victory, if only he could drive with such consistency every time.
KR did the second best thing he should with the dominant car - however, in any case I expect him to be the no. 1 favourit for the title because of his greater consistency.
BMW has an excellent pair of drivers (the best of the moment, IMHO, with RK in particular showing the most of all drivers so far) and a very solid car - let's hope they make the final step towards the top - and it shows in the WCC table.
McLaren today, IMHO, showed the signs of the things to come. I was not surprised by their (and especially LH's) poor showing. McLaren made a big mistake with favouring LH last year, they already paid the price in 2007 and will pay a great deal more this year.
I'm sorry for FA but I don't know whether and how much his car was damaged. Obviously, Michelin was a very significant part of Renault's success.
All in all, a good race considering how dominant the F2008 is.
#39
Posted 06 April 2008 - 13:54
Originally posted by alfa1
In some minor defence of DC, drivers have said modern day F1 mirrors are useless.
As Button said, though, if Coulthard hadn't looked in his mirrors the incident would've been avoided. Coulthard's blocking is becoming ridiculous. Can't see him racing in F1 next year.
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#40
Posted 06 April 2008 - 13:55
I'm not so sure about that. Massa had way 3-4 laps more fuel than Kubica and set virtually the same time in Q3 (with traffic, apparently), and was streets ahead in Q2. I think we can agree that Massa was representative of Ferrari's pace this weekend.Originally posted by race addicted
BMW have definately had a faster race-car than McLaren here. Over one lap with fresh tires I'd say their car is as fast as Ferrari's.
Ferrari are looking ominous now that they've got to grips with their reliability. Its great to see BMW genuinely beat McLaren, but they both better hope that their Barcelona upgrade delivers more than Ferrari's. Otherwise, Ferrari are going to dominate.
#41
Posted 06 April 2008 - 13:56
#42
Posted 06 April 2008 - 13:58
Ferrari probably wasnt pushing very hard the last stint but it makes you wonder why the BMW;s and McLarens did not do 2 stints in the harder compount...
#43
Posted 06 April 2008 - 13:58
lap chart up....bmw are very consistent apart from stint 2 they were just about ferrari's speed in stint 1 and 3
#44
Posted 06 April 2008 - 14:00
Originally posted by SuperDaan
funny to see that the Beemers and the Macs set their fastest time on the hard tires, and the Ferrari's on the soft.
Ferrari probably wasnt pushing very hard the last stint but it makes you wonder why the BMW;s and McLarens did not do 2 stints in the harder compount...
Its because they had light-ish fuel loads.
Kova came in the pits with 9 laps to go...
#45
Posted 06 April 2008 - 14:00
I thought the same thing -- weird how everyone left the hards for the final stint.Originally posted by SuperDaan
funny to see that the Beemers and the Macs set their fastest time on the hard tires, and the Ferrari's on the soft.
Ferrari probably wasnt pushing very hard the last stint but it makes you wonder why the BMW;s and McLarens did not do 2 stints in the harder compount...
#46
Posted 06 April 2008 - 14:00
Nuff said, really. Excellent pairingOriginally posted by metz
The BMW pair are evenly matched with different skills.
#47
Posted 06 April 2008 - 14:00
no, it's again DC's brainfade, 2 times in 3 race. you can't keep driving into people who are A LOT on your insideOriginally posted by Lada Lover
I think JB brakes too late and to avoid hitting DC he took evasive action which was to dive to the inside but then DC took the racing line and that was it. JB made an error.
i really hope he gets a race ban
#48
Posted 06 April 2008 - 14:00
Have to congratulate Massa for recovering well from 2 bad races.
Kudos also to BMW - they really are troubling the front now me thinks.
Maclaren need to pull their socks up sharpish - thats for sure.
I'd also like to understand a bit more of what happened in the Alonso/Hamy incident. I must admit this was definitely a race to forget for Lewis after that. He was never going to make up the deficit. I give him credit for trying, even if he was a bit hot headed about it.
Also the Button/Coulthard incident. Button was definitely quicker than Coulthard but it just needed a bit of co-operation from the driver in front for an overtake to be successful, which DC clearly was not in the mood for. Jenson's explanation of the incident was clear enough. He went for a gap on the inside early in the corner but no sooner had he committed to the move than DC moved across into what was the gap, leaving Jenson with too much speed and nowhere to go. Thats why he slightly lost control under heavy braking and could not avoid a clash. Jenson also said something about discussions in drivers briefings about agreement not to move across to block another driver in the braking zone, which he felt DC had done. I've never heard that before. Any opinions out there? Did DC move across in the braking zone or did he take his legitimate racing line and just not see or expect to see Jenson trying a move there?
Anyway in general I'm disappointed with DC this year so far.
The other thing I'd like to know is what caused Jenson's and DC's punctures on the first lap as really it was that those that destroyed both driver's race.
Of other drivers today. Good drives by Fisichella and Webber.
#49
Posted 06 April 2008 - 14:02
True, but the BMWs set some very fast times after their final pitstop (with some fuel) than just before (with little fuel). It could just be a case of fresh vs. old tyres, but then perhaps the hard tyres would have been more consistent? Odd that no one tried that strategy.Originally posted by SchuOz
Its because they had light-ish fuel loads.
Kova came in the pits with 9 laps to go...
#50
Posted 06 April 2008 - 14:02
Originally posted by alfa1
In some minor defence of DC, drivers have said modern day F1 mirrors are useless.
Well, if you look at the replays you can clearly see David was very aware of Jenson, and reacting accordingly