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#51 inca_roads

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 14:04

Originally posted by pippin
Well the race was boring in most part with most entertainment provided by the Brits. :(

Have to congratulate Massa for recovering well from 2 bad races.
Kudos also to BMW - they really are troubling the front now me thinks.
Maclaren need to pull their socks up sharpish - thats for sure.

I'd also like to understand a bit more of what happened in the Alonso/Hamy incident. I must admit this was definitely a race to forget for Lewis after that. He was never going to make up the deficit. I give him credit for trying, even if he was a bit hot headed about it.

Also the Button/Coulthard incident. :( Button was definitely quicker than Coulthard but it just needed a bit of co-operation from the driver in front for an overtake to be successful, which DC clearly was not in the mood for. Jenson's explanation of the incident was clear enough. He went for a gap on the inside early in the corner but no sooner had he committed to the move than DC moved across into what was the gap, leaving Jenson with too much speed and nowhere to go. Thats why he slightly lost control under heavy braking and could not avoid a clash. Jenson also said something about discussions in drivers briefings about agreement not to move across to block another driver in the braking zone, which he felt DC had done. I've never heard that before. Any opinions out there? Did DC move across in the braking zone or did he take his legitimate racing line and just not see or expect to see Jenson trying a move there?

Anyway in general I'm disappointed with DC this year so far. :down:

The other thing I'd like to know is what caused Jenson's and DC's punctures on the first lap as really it was that those that destroyed both driver's race.


Of other drivers today. Good drives by Fisichella and Webber.


I agree it was partly DC's fault, although Button's move was going to be a bit optimistic from that far back. However, once he's committed to going up the inside under braking, Coulthard should know there's no way he is going to be able to stop if he moves over and blocks him.

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#52 mowaru

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 14:05

Originally posted by tormave
What the :confused: was Hamilton gesturing to Sato and Fisichella when passing? Should they have just moved over like Davidson did, who I am guessing thought Hamilton came up to lap him?



:up:

#53 BiH

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 14:05

his laps were really good compared to his first stint and second stint that were all in the 1:35 to 1:36
after heikkis 2 pitstop

1:33.193
1:33.238
1:33.525
1:33.430
1:34.047
1:33.847
1:33.874
1:34.673
1:34.738

#54 metz

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 14:06

Hard to pick the driver of the race.
Massa or Webber would be my vote.

#55 skonks

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 14:06

Originally posted by primer


Well, if you look at the replays you can clearly see David was very aware of Jenson, and reacting accordingly :D


not really trying a dig at DC, but as we have also seen in Australia, DC's mirrors are lately ALWAYS useless. ;)

#56 primer

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 14:07

Originally posted by pippin


The other thing I'd like to know is what caused Jenson's and DC's punctures on the first lap as really it was that those that destroyed both driver's race.


There were lots of carbon fiber bits on the track between turn 1 and 3 on the first lap, someone lost a wing too (IIRC, other than FA-LH thing))

#57 miniman

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 14:07

Good race from Felipe, finally, Kimi did very well too. The Ferrari brain trust performed brilliantly through the race so it seemed like an easy win.

The BMW drivers did as well as could be expected as their car is close but not quite yet at the same performance level as Ferrari and McLaren. Rumors of some performance enhancements to be introduced in a few weeks may finally give BMW the parity that they need to fight consistently for poles, podiums and wins.

Bad luck for McLaren today, I don't think Hamilton's misfortune was entirely his doing. He will rebound and so will the team's fortunes.

#58 Orin

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 14:07

Massa, fantastic pace all weekend and a deserved win, the only downside is that ITV showed his Q3 fastest lap (where he claimed he'd hit horrible traffic) which revealed he'd simply been over-driving (plus the lunacy of keeping his foot in for Q2, which he was fortunate to get away with). Still, on balance a great weekend - timely too. :up:

Raikkonen, not great, but he maximised the points. I guess he's not a fan of Bahrain.

Kubica, excellent race, pressing Raikkonen in the early stages. :up: :up:

Heidfeld, ran very well to keep Kubica honest. :up:

Well done to Glock for finishing a race, and Fisichella who Brundle nominated "Star in a reasonably priced car"! :lol:

Trulli and Webber both got the most out of their steeds. :up: :up:

Kovalainen, anonymous but for the fantastic move around the outside of Raikkonen at the start - great skill on display there. :up:

The downers...

McLaren, yeuch! Simply terrible, Kovalainen ran in clean air and couldn't get near the BMWs, Hamilton's terrible start was compounded by the collision with Alonso and seems to have ruined the undertray. An awful weekend for the team, most depressingly the car didn't look good enough for more than 5th. I suspect we're seeing the fallout from the prolonged Spygate saga. Will they be able to get back on terms with Ferrari? :(

DC, really poor timing to leave the door open for so long and then close it after Button had committed. :down:

Piquet, terrible reliability from the car. :

#59 GiancarloF1

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 14:09

Originally posted by metz
Hard to pick the driver of the race.
Massa or Webber would be my vote.


For me it's a tie between Massa and Fisi. C'mon, that India nearly caught Alonso's Renault. However probably Massa has the edge, handled the extreme pressure and expectations in fashion. :up:

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#60 WOOT

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 14:10

Originally posted by mowaru



:up:


I like how you bring up Hamilton's hand waving while completely waving Alonso's handwaving at Glock. Classic sign of fanboyism.

#61 GNT4ME

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 14:13

Originally posted by alfa1


In his interview with ITV, JB said that in driver briefings, they had agreed not to move around in the braking zones.
So the story is... JB saw a gap and dived for it, but in the braking zone, DC moved across leaving JB nowhere to go except to call off the overtaking move and just start trying to avoid DC instead.... but as we saw it didnt work.

In some minor defence of DC, drivers have said modern day F1 mirrors are useless.


No defence at all.
DC and JB had been racing in close proximity for a while so DC should have known exactly where JB was.
DC is starting to remind me of the “bridge keeper” from Monty Pythons Holy Grail film….” None shall pass……..”

#62 pUs

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 14:15

Whatever Mclaren had in 2007, they don't have it at the moment.

#63 Zoe

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 14:15

So who was it, who, according to Vettel bumped into the back of Vettel's car in lap 1?

Zoe

#64 hsvone

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 14:16

Driver of the race for me Robert Kubica. :smoking: :up:

Hamilton. :lol:

BMW showed impressive pace and deserve to be leading the WCC.

#65 Orin

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 14:18

Originally posted by WOOT


I like how you bring up Hamilton's hand waving while completely waving Alonso's handwaving at Glock. Classic sign of fanboyism.


I saw Hamilton wave at Fisi, but it was more like a thank you gesture - Fisi was driving as straight as an arrow, not contesting the corner at all.

Alonso's hysterical arm-waving at Glock on the other hand... :rolleyes:

#66 wawawa

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 14:19

Originally posted by hsvone
BMW showed impressive pace and deserve to be leading the WCC.

:up: Fantastic consistency!

#67 Lada Lover

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 14:26

Originally posted by Orin


I saw Hamilton wave at Fisi, but it was more like a thank you gesture - Fisi was driving as straight as an arrow, not contesting the corner at all.

Alonso's hysterical arm-waving at Glock on the other hand... :rolleyes:


Sarcasm does work on the internets. :up: with the right smileys.

Alonso barely raised his hand and he put it down quickly as if he realized how dumb it was when Glock did no wrong. It was just frustration.

I didn't see any of Hamilton's gestures so I can't comment.

#68 Tigershark

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 14:29

Originally posted by SchuOz
Its because they had light-ish fuel loads.
Kova came in the pits with 9 laps to go...

But then again; all cars had to go only nine more laps.

#69 Yellowmc

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 14:32

Originally posted by Tigershark

But then again; all cars had to go only nine more laps.


...he had fresh tyres at that point. Unlike anyone else.

#70 Atreiu

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 14:34

Kovalainen's last stint gives me hope Mclaren are much more competitive than a distant 5th. Bad day for Hamilton, wrong strategy for the finn. I'm sure they'll sort it out, but it better not be too late.




#71 gerry nassar

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 14:37

Kudos to Massa. Fast all weekend as is becoming a bit of a Bahrain specialist. Well deserved win. :up:

Kimi did well considering he comes away from his bogey track with 2nd and the championship lead! The early overtaking of Heikki and Kubica was nice to see in what would become a processional race.

Well done to the BMW boys who did very well also. Looks like BMW will be right there to take away points from Mclaren when they have a few problems.

#72 SchuOz

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 14:37

Originally posted by Atreiu
Kovalainen's last stint gives me hpe Mclaren are much more competitive than a distant 5th. Bad day for Hamilton, wrong strategy for the finn. I'm sure they'll sort it out, but it better not be too late.


Read posts 68 & 69.

#73 Atreiu

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 14:40

Originally posted by SchuOz


Read posts 68 & 69.


Kovalainen's stint was impressive regardless if the others were on cruise mode and with tyres not so fresh. I still believe McLaren are much better than a distant 5th. It doesn't mean they can win all races, but I'm not so sure of BMW being the second force at all.

These next races will tel if I'm right or wrong.

#74 vaavu

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 14:43

Originally posted by BiH
1 23 Heikki Kovalainen McLaren-Mercedes 49 15:52:37 209.062 1:33.193
19 22 Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 25 15:14:42 203.969 1:35.520


Oh dear... :stoned:

Heikki's stretegy was very strange indeed. Why so long middle stint with such a heavy fuel load? He lost too much time to BMWs because of this, he was way off their pace during the 2nd stint.

#75 mowaru

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 14:47

Originally posted by pUs
Whatever Mclaren had in 2007, they don't have it at the moment.


Alonso? privileged info? 100 $ million fine?

#76 mowaru

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 14:48

Originally posted by Orin


I it was more like a thank you gesture



:rotfl:

#77 wawawa

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 14:49

Originally posted by Atreiu
These next races will tel if I'm right or wrong.

The next few races will depend heavily on the new updates everyone is going to bring. We suspect Ferrari will roll out something revolutionary, and McLaren's Barcelona update last year was excellent so they may have something up their sleeves this year too. BMW will be the wild card. Did their efforts to overcome their teething troubles set back their Barcelona development? Thiessen claims that the team is technically stronger for having successfully overcome that problem -- stronger than if they hadn't had the problem -- so maybe they found something interesting. Either way, the teams are very close going into the European season, so its going to depend on who makes the biggest leap.

#78 wawawa

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 14:51

Originally posted by vaavu
Why so long middle stint with such a heavy fuel load? He lost too much time to BMWs because of this, he was way off their pace during the 2nd stint.

In hindsight, a long middle stint on hard tyres may have been the right choice.

#79 metz

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 14:51

Originally posted by vaavu


Oh dear... :stoned:

Heikki's stretegy was very strange indeed. Why so long middle stint with such a heavy fuel load? He lost too much time to BMWs because of this, he was way off their pace during the 2nd stint.

Maybe not. Heidfeld in front of him also had a very long middle stint.

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#80 Zarathustra

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 14:52

McLaren's nightmare weekend - Heikki couldn't keep Heidfeld and Raikkonen behind him at the start and never looked likely to finish any higher than he did and Lewis had a terrible getaway then a strange incident with Alonso.

Textbook stuff from Ferrari apart from poor qualifying from Kimi. If Massa had finished the last two races we'd be asking ourselves if we're in for another 2002/2004.

#81 pasadena

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 14:54

Originally posted by Zarathustra
If Massa had finished the last two races we'd be asking ourselves if we're in for another 2002/2004.

Most probably we are. F2008 seems to be capable of dominating easily. McLaren would go downhill, BMW is the only hope (a slim one, that is) of putting up a fight with Ferraris.

#82 AFCA

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 14:55

I was impressed with Alonso. Hamilton had damaged his rearwing quite severe, an endplate was missing as well as a part at the rearside...

#83 Sbastien

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 14:57

Good to see Ferrari so dominant again, like Kimi said he didn't have a very good weekend but easily secured second. Maybe the extra Bahrein test was part of the reason they were so much better than the rest.

Happy for BMW, boy did Dr Mario get it right when he put Kubica in the car.

McLaren nuff said, terrible weekend and Hamilton is surely not "leading" the team as could be expected imo.
Kovalainen did what could be done with the third best car by taking 5th.

Webber, Trulli & Rosberg did well to pick-up the remaining points.

Barrichello and Button was entertaining and Fisi did OK with the Force India, that car seems much improved.

As to the waving, gesturing in the car, who cares they can wave, signal all they want imo.

Man of the race, easy Felipe Massa did they only thing he could do to get back in the championship and restore some faith, well done Felipe now don't stuff it in Barcelona.

Man of the weekend Robert Kubica :up:

#84 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 14:57

Interesting race

Massa :up: :up: Almost perfect weekend after first two horror races.

Kimi, Heidfeld and Kubica :up: Solid

Force India, Fisi and Webber :up:

Will the Alonso telemetry come to light? Thats the only solution to that argument I think.

Things are generally looking bad for McLaren at the minute but it's worth remembering BMW had one of their strongest races at this super smooth tilke drome last year also. It seems mclarens problem is their mechanical/aero combo just doesnt provide enough downforce stability and bite at this track. The car seems too willing to rotate and squirm under power compared to both Ferrari and Beemers here. They seem to be falling back slightly.

Originally posted by pippin
Well the race was boring in most part with most entertainment provided by the Brits. :(

Have to congratulate Massa for recovering well from 2 bad races.
Kudos also to BMW - they really are troubling the front now me thinks.
Maclaren need to pull their socks up sharpish - thats for sure.

I'd also like to understand a bit more of what happened in the Alonso/Hamy incident. I must admit this was definitely a race to forget for Lewis after that. He was never going to make up the deficit. I give him credit for trying, even if he was a bit hot headed about it.

Also the Button/Coulthard incident. :( Button was definitely quicker than Coulthard but it just needed a bit of co-operation from the driver in front for an overtake to be successful, which DC clearly was not in the mood for. Jenson's explanation of the incident was clear enough. He went for a gap on the inside early in the corner but no sooner had he committed to the move than DC moved across into what was the gap, leaving Jenson with too much speed and nowhere to go. Thats why he slightly lost control under heavy braking and could not avoid a clash. Jenson also said something about discussions in drivers briefings about agreement not to move across to block another driver in the braking zone, which he felt DC had done. I've never heard that before. Any opinions out there? Did DC move across in the braking zone or did he take his legitimate racing line and just not see or expect to see Jenson trying a move there?

Anyway in general I'm disappointed with DC this year so far. :down:

The other thing I'd like to know is what caused Jenson's and DC's punctures on the first lap as really it was that those that destroyed both driver's race.


Of other drivers today. Good drives by Fisichella and Webber.


Was indeed interesting to hear from Button about the incident and while it was ultimately his fault (without his little slide he could have avoided evasive action at the apex which caused the accident), DC could have used a bit of noggin and still driven away infront of Jenson. DC had even less reason to give room in this case though than he did to Massa at Melbourne so its a bit harsh on DC to carry on criticising his driving.

I doubt we'll see a much more exciting race at Barcelona.

#85 Pep

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 15:02

Originally posted by AFCA
I was impressed with Alonso. Hamilton had damaged his rearwing quite severe, an endplate was missing as well as a part at the rearside...


I was too. Antonio Lobato (Telecinco broadcaster, spanish tv) has somebody in the Renault garage who pass him information during the race and shortly after the crash he said that Alonso had complained of oversteer, so he asked for less front wing in the first pit stop (they also changed a bit the pressures on the tyres).

Very good race from Massa, and also very good qualy yesterday, 3 tenths in front of Kmi with more fuel than him (and even so he admitted a mistake in sector 2 yesterday). He likes this track and he got everything right.

McLaren should worry after this race, although after the last stint in which Kova set the fastest lap with soft, maybe their car is genuinely quicker but they missed the set up or they didn't choose the better tyres for their car.

#86 Crazy Canuck

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 15:06

Pretty boring really.

Good results for Massa, Kimi, Robert, Nick.

Really BAD race if you're a McLaren fan....

VERY unimpressive race by Heikki and Lewis.....

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#87 Gecko

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 15:11

Originally posted by AFCA
I was impressed with Alonso. Hamilton had damaged his rearwing quite severe, an endplate was missing as well as a part at the rearside...


I guess that just shows how awful the aero on the Renault must be ;)

#88 Mila

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 15:11

interesting that FM stayed in the garage up until the final seconds of pit-lane-open. it was explained by someone at Ferrari that he had a problem with his earplugs--a problem, which you would think, could have been addressed once his car had taken its grid position.

outside of the first handful of laps, not a particularly entertaining race. we might have expected more wheel-to-wheel stuff from JT, MW, and NR, seeing how closely they ran together. and when conditions were apparently ripe for some quick ones it was HK, not the Ferrari or BMW boys, setting the fastest time. granted, the McLaren driver had the freshest tires, yet my guess is that, by this point of the race, the front four were in cruise-and-collect mode.

some nice dicing among KR, HK, and RK at the beginning. on the flip side, the FA-LH incident will have to be investigated.

and what is the deal with FA waiving his fist at TG? egads, the petulance.

I tend to think that JB was at fault for his demise. that said, DC has been having more than his share of contretemps of late.

the faces on the podium were a little long. I have a sneaking suspicion that more than a driver or two were knackered after the race. the F1 boys have done a lot of traveling over the past weeks, and that has to catch up with them at some point.

#89 kosmos

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 15:13

Boring race, and mark my words, Hamilton will regret his silly move over Alonso, he can´t loose point in such a silly way.

#90 wawawa

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 15:13

Originally posted by Gecko
I guess that just shows how awful the aero on the Renault must be ;)

Ouch :lol:

#91 Cenotaph

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 15:15

Massa :up: :up: That's how you respond to the critics
Kimi, Kubica, Heidfeld :up: Great speed, Heidfeld was particularly strong on the first stint with an heavy car.
Kovalainen was ok
Hamilton :down: :down: terrible race

Different tracks make the cars perform different, much like last year, but Ferrari seem to be more balanced overall, while McLaren are completely ordinary in some tracks. In Malaysia, the BMW were already equal if not faster than the McLaren, but in Bahrain, McLaren was a step behind for sure. Doesn't look good for them so far.

Glad to see BMW leading the WCC. :clap: There's one more team to count on, definitely.

#92 yr

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 15:25

Great race by Massa, driver of the race easily. :up:
Avarage race for Kimi, but 8 points are 8 points, so good for him.

Both BMW drivers did a great job too.

From silver camp Hamilton was awful and Kovalainen mediocre, lets hope they can raise their game.

Originally posted by pUs
Whatever Mclaren had in 2007, they don't have it at the moment.


Whatever that might be, it is not Alonso, because Renault is also doing worse now than they did in 2007. :wave:

#93 F1Champion

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 15:25

Great drive by Massa. Not only silents the critics but also comprehensively outpaces Kimi, making him look more like a WDC contender.

Kimi did well even though the car setup wasn't too good.

The BMW's were very fast today, a couple more upgrades and its going to be very tight at the top.

#94 mowaru

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 15:27

Kimi has said he's been strugling this weekend. This is not a Circuit of miki's taste.

#95 mclarensmps

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 15:27

Originally posted by yr
Great race by Massa, driver of the race easily. :up:
Avarage race for Kimi, but 8 points are 8 points, so good for him.

Both BMW drivers did a great job too.

From silver camp Hamilton was awful and Kovalainen mediocre, lets hope they can raise their game.



Whatever that might be, it is not Alonso, because Renault is also doing worse now than they did in 2007. :wave:


maybe fisichella gave them another 6 tenths of a second? :lol:

#96 tormave

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 15:31

Originally posted by Mila
interesting that FM stayed in the garage up until the final seconds of pit-lane-open. it was explained by someone at Ferrari that he had a problem with his earplugs--a problem, which you would think, could have been addressed once his car had taken its grid position.

How would Massa have driven the car to the grid? With his fingers in his ears?

Keke Rosberg was once asked about how loud the cars are in an interview. As an anecdotal answer he told about a driver who forgot to put earplugs before getting in the car to do an installation lap and was too lazy to put them on once he was already strapped in. When he came back to the pits there was blood oozing from both ears.

#97 yr

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 15:35

Originally posted by The Big Guns


maybe fisichella gave them another 6 tenths of a second? :lol:


You might be right on there. Now, come to think of it, Renault wasnt a WDC contender in the hands of Alonso before Fisi signed in, then Alonso took advantage of Fisi´s 6 tenths and went on to win couple of WDCs. :lol:

#98 F1 Tor.

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 15:37

Is it me, or is Fisi driving better now than at any other time in his career? I thought Massa drove very well, but now he has to build on this success and carry it over into Spain. Although I'm sure he's happy to be leading the WDC, I'm sure Kimi will be fiesty next race and want to reassert his authority. BMW-excellent and clearly on pace to challenge Mac. I don't think I've ever encountered a driver like Nick, though. He's just plain invisible at times, running in his own race it seems yet he manages great results. Robert. :up:, I expected more from Nico. :| , :down: Hamilton, Alonso, Jenson, and DC. Hiekki seemed very lonely most of the race. Overall, not a fabulous race but it wasn't bad. :wave:

#99 Sbastien

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 15:38

Originally posted by tormave

How would Massa have driven the car to the grid? With his fingers in his ears?

Keke Rosberg was once asked about how loud the cars are in an interview. As an anecdotal answer he told about a driver who forgot to put earplugs before getting in the car to do an installation lap and was too lazy to put them on once he was already strapped in. When he came back to the pits there was blood oozing from both ears.

Nope he had a problem with the radio and they choose to fix that in the pits.

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#100 mowaru

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 15:44

Originally posted by F1 Tor.
Is it me, or is Fisi driving better now than at any other time in his career? I thought Massa drove very well, but now he has to build on this success and carry it over into Spain. Although I'm sure he's happy to be leading the WDC, I'm sure Kimi will be fiesty next race and want to reassert his authority. BMW-excellent and clearly on pace to challenge Mac. I don't think I've ever encountered a driver like Nick, though. He's just plain invisible at times, running in his own race it seems yet he manages great results. Robert. :up:, I expected more from Nico. :| , :down: Hamilton, Alonso, Jenson, and DC. Hiekki seemed very lonely most of the race. Overall, not a fabulous race but it wasn't bad. :wave:


It's you ...

Fisi has been always a very good driver. Maybe you started seeing F1 when Button started to score podiums.