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Should Mclaren have better drivers this year?


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#1 BMW_F1

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Posted 07 April 2008 - 15:17

I just want to mimic the thread made about BMW's drivers.
IMO, Kubica and Lewis are equally talented, but I am not too sure about Heikki vs Nick. I think Nick is much better at the moment.

BMW is leading the WCC without a win, this tell a lot about their drivers' consistency and experience.

Mclaren is a different case, two drivers with only two years of experienced combined in Formula 1. IMO this is not going to be productive in the long run if they want to challenge for the WCC.

What driver pairing do you think would do a better job at challenging Ferrari for the titles this year. ?

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#2 BMW_F1

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Posted 07 April 2008 - 15:22

NOTE: I wanted this to be a poll.. :(

#3 Perigee

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Posted 07 April 2008 - 15:26

I thnk you could do a lot worse than Lewis and Heikki tbh.

Alonso would also do well....but he insists on having a no.2 driver in the 2nd car, and as DC is no longer the No.2 Mac driver (as he clearly was in the Mika days) , and as he's also blotted his copy book there, it is somewhat less than likely.

Vettel or the BMW drivers could also do well, but I don't see much else on the grid (apart from Massa and Kimi) who would do any better than Ham + Heik.



Originally posted by BMW_F1
NOTE: I wanted this to be a poll.. :(


Erm, Kubica! ;)


(Next time, click on "I want this to be a poll"!)

#4 BMW_F1

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Posted 07 April 2008 - 15:49

Originally posted by Perigee
I thnk you could do a lot worse than Lewis and Heikki tbh.

Alonso would also do well....but he insists on having a no.2 driver in the 2nd car, and as DC is no longer the No.2 Mac driver (as he clearly was in the Mika days) , and as he's also blotted his copy book there, it is somewhat less than likely.

Vettel or the BMW drivers could also do well, but I don't see much else on the grid (apart from Massa and Kimi) who would do any better than Ham + Heik.





Erm, Kubica! ;)


(Next time, click on "I want this to be a poll"!)


I don't know, knowing that Alonso was no longer going to be in the team and judging by Lewis slow start to the season and last season's end, I am inclined to believe that a more experienced driver would have benefited them more. I don't know perhaps Webber/Button.. paired with Lewis/Vettel..

#5 Owen

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Posted 07 April 2008 - 16:12

I'm happy with the line up. Any calls for a change are total 'knee jerk' reactions in reaction to one or two poor performances. Looking at the bigger picture I believe it's a strong line up with perhaps the biggest potential of any team on the grid.

#6 Most Fastest

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Posted 07 April 2008 - 16:16

Both Lewis and Heikki are excellent and fast drivers. The only objections to such a pairing, IMO, is the fact they have only one season of experience and in order to push the development of the car forward, I would rather have someone with 4-5 seasons under the belt. We'll see if during the progress of the season McLaren keeps its position right there with Ferrari or falls behind BMW.

#7 BiEs

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Posted 07 April 2008 - 16:17

Macca had a certain experienced driver in the team last season just to make him looking fool...They don't deserve a champion, cause they can't treat them properly. Now they are life sentenced to a champion like driver Lewis, which is bad for both Mc Laren and poor Lewis himself ...And Heiki? If he continue to develope his sleepy attitude, he can win a night race maybe.

#8 BMW_F1

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Posted 07 April 2008 - 16:21

Originally posted by BiEs
Macca had a certain experienced driver in the team last season just to make him looking fool...They don't deserve a champion, cause they can't treat them properly. Now they are life sentenced to a champion like driver Lewis, which is bad for both Mc Laren and poor Lewis himself ...And Heiki? If he continue to develope his sleepy attitude, he can win a night race maybe.


:lol:

At the moment I feel the results from yesterday do not reflect the true potential of the Mclaren car. IMO, a Kimi or Alonso would have battle for the win and certainly not finish outside the podium. Heikki had most of the fastest laps of the race - with that speed he should have been able to beat at least one of the BMW's. His defense to Nick was weak..

#9 alg7_munif

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Posted 07 April 2008 - 16:24

I would like to see Rosberg racing beside Lewis in the McLaren instead of Heiki because I think Rosberg is slightly faster than Heiki and he is also a good friend of Lewis.

#10 BiEs

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Posted 07 April 2008 - 16:39

I would like to see Rosberg racing beside Lewis in the McLaren instead of Heiki because I think Rosberg is slightly faster than Heiki and he is also a good friend of Lewis.



Not that we don't know that being the best friend for Lewis means being out or behind.

#11 Man of the race

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Posted 07 April 2008 - 16:43

When I look at it, Ferrari, BMW, McLaren, RedBull, Toro Rosso and even Williams and Force India have an excellent and interesting driver pairing but Renault, Toyota, Honda and Super Aguri could do better.

#12 WOOT

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Posted 07 April 2008 - 16:45

Originally posted by BiEs


Not that we don't know that being the best friend for Lewis means being out or behind.


Well, nico and lewis have raced in the same team before.

#13 BMW_F1

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Posted 07 April 2008 - 16:50

Originally posted by WOOT


Well, nico and lewis have raced in the same team before.


not under Ron.. that is the reason he is not with Mclaren today

#14 WOOT

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Posted 07 April 2008 - 16:51

Originally posted by BMW_F1


not under Ron.. that is the reason he is not with Mclaren today


Well lewis did beat him when they raced together. perhaps that has something to do with it as well?

#15 BiEs

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Posted 07 April 2008 - 16:55

Well, nico and lewis have raced in the same team before.



Right, for peanuts...All in all we don't need friends on the grid. It's enough when drivers can behave...

#16 alg7_munif

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Posted 07 April 2008 - 16:58

Maybe people don't want Rosberg to be Lewis's teammate because they can't bash Lewis anymore by saying that Lewis can't go along with his teammate.

#17 SlateGray

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Posted 07 April 2008 - 17:02

They need a good partner for HK, someone who can score more than 16 points in 4 races with a front line car.

#18 kismet

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Posted 07 April 2008 - 17:03

I thought it was Rosberg who didn't want to be Hamilton's teammate. Or was that just Bild being Bild?

#19 sopa

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Posted 07 April 2008 - 17:10

Besides McLaren and BMW threads we should also have a thread about Ferrari needing better drivers. The car is clearly the fastest, but they are still not leading the WCC. In conclusion drivers must be truly awful!:lol:

Let's sack all those six useless drivers from top teams and hire better drivers instead of them!:D

McLaren - Button and Rosberg
Ferrari - Vettel and Trulli
BMW - Webber and Bourdais

How about that?:drunk:

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#20 alg7_munif

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Posted 07 April 2008 - 17:12

Originally posted by sopa
Besides McLaren and BMW threads we should also have a thread about Ferrari needing better drivers. The car is clearly the fastest, but they are still not leading the WCC. In conclusion drivers must be truly awful!:lol:

:rotfl:

#21 kismet

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Posted 07 April 2008 - 17:15

We already had those threads after Australia and Malaysia... And pretty much continuously throughout the 2007 season as well, for that matter.

#22 Most Fastest

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Posted 07 April 2008 - 17:20

Besides McLaren and BMW threads we should also have a thread about Ferrari needing better drivers. The car is clearly the fastest, but they are still not leading the WCC. In conclusion drivers must be truly awful!



Imagine how bad McLaren's are for being behind Ferraris!!!!!!!! :rotfl:

OK, it has been established then , with your logic BMW is the 3rd best car but since it's leading the WCC, they must have the best drivers........ :drunk: :stoned:


Reality is that in the last 4-5 races we have seen two drivers with the best cars crack quite often and make pretty stupid mistakes (Lewis during the last 2 GPs of 07 and yesterday and Felipe at the start of Aussie 08 and Malaysia). Rather than a Ferrari fans vs. mcLaren fans, this is a problem both teams are paying a high price for since BMW is leading both thanks to their drivers inability to control their furor or excitement on a regular basis. One or two big mistakes a season are expected by every driver, two mistakes in a handful of GPs are a sign of emotional immaturity.

#23 BMW_F1

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Posted 07 April 2008 - 17:28

In reality nick and kubica are doing the best job at the moment given their equipment.

#24 Modern Lover

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Posted 07 April 2008 - 17:47

Better drivers? Compared to which parameters?

IMO we have the strongest line-up alongside Ferrari.

#25 mursuka80

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Posted 07 April 2008 - 17:54

i Dont no why but i have lots of respect for BMW maybe its because their management and drivers arent so pompous and arrogant :up: VIVA FERRARI!

#26 WOOT

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Posted 07 April 2008 - 17:57

Originally posted by Most Fastest
(Lewis during the last 2 GPs of 07 and yesterday and Felipe at the start of Aussie 08 and Malaysia).

I like how you leave out Kimi from that list.

#27 Most Fastest

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Posted 07 April 2008 - 18:16

Kimi did one mistake, Massa two, Lewis 3 over the last 5 GPs........as I mentioned, 1 or 2 major errors per season are the norm for EVERY driver.......I didn't leave Kimi out, he screwed Monaco last year all by himself in quali. He just seems to be making less than half the mistakes of the other two, who have been way too emotional.

Need me to remind you the episodes, or you are now clear?

#28 BMW_F1

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Posted 07 April 2008 - 18:19

Originally posted by Most Fastest
Kimi did one mistake,



make that two.. One chasing HK and another chasing Glock.

but I agree, overall Kimi is the driver which makes less mistakes along with Nick.

#29 John B

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Posted 07 April 2008 - 18:26

Sometimes the best combination for winning the WCC isn't always the best for WDC. Last year Hamilton and Alonso split their points evenly, and if that hadn't been the case one of them would likely have been the champ. My early read when HK moved to McLaren was Hamilton would have a clear shot at the title. Williams has had this situation historically several times as well, while the old Brabham team and of course Ferrari worked it to perfection to get WDC

#30 Most Fastest

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Posted 07 April 2008 - 18:40

Kimi had one bad race and still got 1 point. Massa tossed it at the first turn into the wall and then in absolute no pressure all alone situation in Malaysia.

Lewis went into the kitty litter while pitting, drove off fighting Alonso which he didn;t need to in Brazil, failed the start and then hit Alonso. Three races ruined. massa two, Kimi one.

They are all thre capable fo winning races, we know that, but if this trend of mistakes continues, it is easy to see who makes less......

It's all I am saying, now everyone chill, please

#31 WOOT

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Posted 07 April 2008 - 18:41

Originally posted by Most Fastest
Kimi had one bad race and still got 1 point.


he was lucky to get even that 1 point due to technical failures of other cars after making those stupid mistakes.

#32 d_view7

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Posted 07 April 2008 - 18:45

I thought his engine failed him when he was running ahead of Alonso and Kovalainen.

#33 BMW_F1

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Posted 07 April 2008 - 18:47

Originally posted by d_view7
I thought his engine failed him when he was running ahead of Alonso and Kovalainen.


he wasn't ahead. he was outside the points when his car died. He got that last point because Rubens got DNF.

#34 hello86

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Posted 07 April 2008 - 18:55

Originally posted by BMW_F1


he wasn't ahead. he was outside the points when his car died. He got that last point because Rubens got DNF.


yes but he was ahead of the when they problem begun.

#35 WOOT

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Posted 07 April 2008 - 18:58

actually kimi got the point only because Bourdais's engine died with 4 laps to finish.

#36 BMW_F1

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Posted 07 April 2008 - 18:58

Originally posted by hello86


yes but he was ahead of the when they problem begun.


his last spin sent him all the way to the back. Did he have the problem before then?

#37 Most Fastest

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Posted 07 April 2008 - 19:03

he was lucky to get even that 1 point due to technical failures of other cars after making those stupid mistakes.



It is besdies the point.....he still ruined one race, Massa tow, Lewis three. any way you slice it.

#38 Frank Booth

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Posted 07 April 2008 - 19:25

They need to dump that 2nd year rookie ASAP.

#39 Most Fastest

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Posted 07 April 2008 - 19:38

No, just help him mature and understand when to pick a fight. Proving a point when you don't need to is a sign of emotional immaturity and both Lewis and Massa are still emotionally immature. They showed it abundantly over the past 6 months.

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#40 d_view7

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Posted 07 April 2008 - 20:18

Originally posted by BMW_F1


he wasn't ahead. he was outside the points when his car died. He got that last point because Rubens got DNF.


His problems started before Alonso and Kovalainen overtook him.

#41 race

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Posted 07 April 2008 - 20:27

Originally posted by BMW_F1


he wasn't ahead. he was outside the points when his car died. He got that last point because Rubens got DNF.


No, that's false. Except if you mean that he was outside the points when his car came to a complete stop after he ran around 10km/h with a broken engine. Before the technical problem he was 6th.

#42 BMW_F1

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Posted 07 April 2008 - 20:33

Originally posted by d_view7


His problems started before Alonso and Kovalainen overtook him.



What I am saying is that when he had the DNF he was clearly outside the points due to his two spins.

by the way this is Way off topic.. Back to the original question please..

#43 Ricardo F1

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Posted 07 April 2008 - 20:40

Given that Alonso went off to Renault and Kimi is tied up with Ferrari where the hell were they going to get better drivers than Kovaleinen and Hamilton from??

#44 BMW_F1

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Posted 07 April 2008 - 21:00

Originally posted by Ricardo F1
Given that Alonso went off to Renault and Kimi is tied up with Ferrari where the hell were they going to get better drivers than Kovaleinen and Hamilton from??


a lot of names can be thrown out there .. Webber, Button, Bourdais, Roseberg, Massa, Vettel..

#45 Most Fastest

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Posted 07 April 2008 - 21:04

Webber, Button, Bourdais, Roseberg, Massa, Vettel..



Not really. The problem with Heikki and Lewis is NOT talent, but lack of experience. Bourdais, Rosberg, Vettel are not the solution in this area. Massa had a 3 year contract with Ferrari, so I don't see why you count him. Button and Webber yes, would have been better choices, specially Button. It would have made it also enourmously entertaining to watch the british press go nuts once the two would start get head to head and there is no Spanish or German driver to hate......... ;)

#46 Ricardo F1

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Posted 07 April 2008 - 23:52

Originally posted by BMW_F1


a lot of names can be thrown out there .. Webber, Button, Bourdais, Roseberg, Massa, Vettel..

And every one would be a step down - IF they were available.

#47 Most Fastest

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Posted 07 April 2008 - 23:56

Originally posted by Ricardo F1
And every one would be a step down - IF they were available.


ricardo you seem to confuse speed with experience. McLaren already had Lewis, so having another fast driver was not as important than having one with experience. Now, i don;t know what is contractual status was, probably unavailable, but Button would have been a 10 times better option in theory. Not a step down at all, since to help the engineer develop the car they need experienced feedback more than raw speed.

Not that I expect someone with a signature like yours to get it.......Kimi Raikonnen WDC 2007 ; McLaren WCC 2007*
*(on track)

You mean the MP 2007 won on track last year??? :rotfl:

#48 Ricardo F1

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Posted 08 April 2008 - 02:14

Originally posted by Most Fastest


ricardo you seem to confuse speed with experience. McLaren already had Lewis, so having another fast driver was not as important than having one with experience.

At which point you're talking out of your ass because you have no idea whether McLaren feel that way. Clearly they didn't otherwise they wouldn't have hired Heikki - and they have a bloke called Pedro De La Rosa testing for them who has quite a bit of experience last time I checked.

Originally posted by Most Fastest
Not that I expect someone with a signature like yours to get it.......Kimi Raikonnen WDC 2007 ; McLaren WCC 2007*
*(on track)

You mean the MP 2007 won on track last year??? :rotfl:

Put the points together for McLaren cars WHERE THEY FINISHED ON TRACK and they won the WCC. The only controversial part of that is counting Hungary - which personally I do, because they raced and finished in points positions.

#49 BMW_F1

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Posted 08 April 2008 - 02:27

Originally posted by Ricardo F1
And every one would be a step down - IF they were available.



you don't really know that..

#50 BMW_F1

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Posted 08 April 2008 - 02:29

Originally posted by Most Fastest


Not that I expect someone with a signature like yours to get it.......Kimi Raikonnen WDC 2007 ; McLaren WCC 2007*
*(on track)

You mean the MP 2007 won on track last year??? :rotfl:


a certain sprinter also won the 1988 Olympics on track if I am not mistaken too bad he cheated just like Mclaren..

:lol: