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Should Liuzzi step in (instead of Sutil)?


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Poll: Should Liuzzi step in (instead of Sutil)? (133 member(s) have cast votes)

  1. Yes (49 votes [37.12%])

    Percentage of vote: 37.12%

  2. No (give Sutil 3 more races) (83 votes [62.88%])

    Percentage of vote: 62.88%

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#1 glorius&victorius

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Posted 08 April 2008 - 13:28

In Bahrain I was interested to see how Sutil would be doing. I wasn't very impressed and wondered if Liuzzi should step in. Before departing with STR he had a reasonable impressive run.

Your opinion please. :up:

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#2 BMW_F1

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Posted 08 April 2008 - 13:36

absolutely ..

#3 noikeee

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Posted 08 April 2008 - 13:54

Sutil is the disappointment of the year so far to me (he couldn't afford to be beaten by Fisichella in the first place, nevermind by this margin), but it's too early. He has proved his worth to the team last year and as such, deserves a couple more chances!

Besides, I don't think he's had a clean race yet, to compare to Fisichella's. He had some problem last race, didn't he? Qualifying has been very one-sided though.

I do think Liuzzi is queuing up as the #1 candidate for a possible replacement... he too deserves another chance in F1.

#4 Hacklerf

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Posted 08 April 2008 - 14:06

like i said in the bye bye sutil thread, ive been told he is really struggling with the new rules, but the team for sure haven't lost faith in him at all

#5 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 08 April 2008 - 15:11

I do not think he should, but will not use the no option, since there is a qualifier on it with it, making it a 3 race extention.

:cool:

#6 WOOT

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Posted 08 April 2008 - 15:12

I think someone should replace Vettel as well.

#7 potmotr

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Posted 08 April 2008 - 16:27

Far too early in the season. He needs at least half a season. And Liuzzi hardly set the world on fire during his time at Toro Rosso.

#8 Crazy Canuck

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Posted 08 April 2008 - 16:38

It's still early days to make this kind of decisoin. But I would make it clear to him that he needs to be performing much better my mid season otherwise he will have a new testing job!

For his future worth he REALLY needs to start beating Fisi...and fast! If he does not beat Fisi then I'm afraid his F1 career will be over.

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#9 Juan Kerr

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Posted 08 April 2008 - 18:21

Karun Chandok ?

#10 Jerome

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Posted 08 April 2008 - 18:36

For a fan of David Coulthard it pains me to say it, but if we are thinking about someone Liuzzi should replace, it is him. Sutil deserves to ride out this year, even if he keeps being beaten. But if Coulthard gets involved in one more incident like in the last two Grand Prix....

#11 CWeil

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Posted 08 April 2008 - 19:51

Originally posted by Jerome.Inen
For a fan of David Coulthard it pains me to say it, but if we are thinking about someone Liuzzi should replace, it is him. Sutil deserves to ride out this year, even if he keeps being beaten. But if Coulthard gets involved in one more incident like in the last two Grand Prix....


I am also a big fan of Coulthard, but also agree with you on this one. It's too bad it'll never happen, but really, it should.

#12 ehagar

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 02:24

Forget Liuzzi... BRING BACK MARKUS WINKELHOCK

#13 armchair expert

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 03:07

Originally posted by ehagar
Forget Liuzzi... BRING BACK MARKUS WINKELHOCK


Yeah!
How many others have led their first race in arguably the worst car on the grid!*



(Okay, so he was a little lucky ;) )

#14 runggald

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 04:00

Of course Sutil deserves more time. At least until mid-season. He's young and hasn't had much luck so far which he will definitely need against Fisi in this situation. Fisi had no luck in Melbourne. But for that he would've scored 2 or 3 points for sure in that crazy race.

Some have suggested he should have at least another 3 races but I feel the next 3 races are going to be even worse for him when you look at the tracks that are coming up: Barcelona, Turkey and Monaco - 3 of Fisi's best. Especially at Monaco, Fisi's best track by far, the gap could be frightfully big. Then shortly after that we have Canada and the USA which are also top tracks for Fisi.

No matter what happens I would let him ride out the season to really get a measure of his long term potential.
Somehow, I don't think Liuzzi would do much better, and after all Liuzzi did have his chance at Toro Rosso for a season and a half. Although, we didn't see the best of him there I am sure. Two Italians driving for the one Indian team - who would've thought?

P.S. The difference between Coulthard and Fisi: Fisi still has the speed to beat one of the new young guns with ease. Coulthard has no speed left and does not even use his experience to let a much faster guy past, without an accident, so as to least finish the race (and maybe score a point).

#15 qwazy

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 04:27

Lol, you wish USA was still on the calender.

I mean, I wish USA was still on the calender.

#16 runggald

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 04:33

Oops, I forgot the US GP is now gone. Still, it was one of Fisi's best. At least he still has Canada in the North American leg.

#17 wingwalker

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 08:52

To early to tell. But Sutil definitely has to up his game.

#18 angst

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 10:18

Seems to be a case, again, fo too much too soon. McLaren were very wise with Hamilton, in that they put him right through to GP2 before considering him for F1. I know one can't make sweeping judgements, but I think too many drivers are being rushed through to F1 without necessarily gaining the experience they really need to succeed - and once your in F1 the pressure is enormous. Clearly for the likes of Raikkonen this hasn't been a problem. But for someoen like Klien it has been damaging. I fear for Sutil, the pressure is really on and I don't think F1 is the environment to be getting it wrong - too much is at stake. Nakajima is another who, imo, could have done with another, more solid, season in GP2.

#19 Most Fastest

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 14:11

Originally posted by paranoik0
He has proved his worth to the team last year


Yeah, by outperforming a total nobody........ Sutil is the most overhyped driver in F1 today

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#20 Keir

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 15:19

He deserves the same amount of time any driver in a "back of the grid" car deserves - a whole season.

Tonio is a team player. When and if they need him, he'll be there and ready.

#21 juary

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 15:24

It deserves another 5/6 races to show how is capable of in comparizon with Fisi.
Anyway if the difference in terms of race pace will be the same during the european season, Sutil could start to worry about his F1 future...
IMO also for Nakajima and Piquet jr. it's time to show something....

#22 SlateGray

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 15:29

Originally posted by KWSN - DSM
I do not think he should, but will not use the no option, since there is a qualifier on it with it, making it a 3 race extention.


AS should stay till season's end or longer

#23 WOOT

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 15:58

Originally posted by Most Fastest


Yeah, by outperforming a total nobody........ Sutil is the most overhyped driver in F1 today


I think Vettel takes that crown.

#24 gem

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 17:49

Fisi is underrated , and Liuzzi hasn't been anything special so far. Then again, can you ever imagine ForceIndia with 2 Italian drivers? The second (or first) driver will be an Indian.

#25 Imperial

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 18:06

I voted no on the basis that Liuzzi is equally as crap if not worse than Sutil.

#26 Imperial

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 18:12

Originally posted by angst
Seems to be a case, again, fo too much too soon. McLaren were very wise with Hamilton, in that they put him right through to GP2 before considering him for F1. I know one can't make sweeping judgements, but I think too many drivers are being rushed through to F1 without necessarily gaining the experience they really need to succeed - and once your in F1 the pressure is enormous. Clearly for the likes of Raikkonen this hasn't been a problem. But for someoen like Klien it has been damaging. I fear for Sutil, the pressure is really on and I don't think F1 is the environment to be getting it wrong - too much is at stake. Nakajima is another who, imo, could have done with another, more solid, season in GP2.


Agreed.

I know there's not enough lower formulae champions for the F1 teams to sign up every year (i.e. there's only one GP2 champ every season) but the level of dross that F1 teams sign up is beyond belief.

F1 doesn't ever even seem to try and sign up the drivers who came 2nd and 3rd in GP2 etc. I don't understand this F1 thing where the teams sign up bog-standard drivers, especially if they are not pay drivers.

To this day I shall never understand why Jenson Button was so readily snapped up by Williams after an F3 season where he measurably had his arse kicked by Marc Hynes. Williams doing a driver shoot-out was sad enough, that Hynes wasn't a part of it was amazing. Button's management were serious silver-tongued smooth talkers to get him into that shoot-out and into that team.

Meanwhile the superior Marc Hynes no longer has a motorsport career.

#27 Sakae

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 19:52

Originally posted by WOOT


I think Vettel takes that crown.

let me guess - you are of Polish descent, and watching F1 whole two weeks

#28 tkulla

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Posted 10 April 2008 - 01:53

Originally posted by Imperial


Agreed.

I know there's not enough lower formulae champions for the F1 teams to sign up every year (i.e. there's only one GP2 champ every season) but the level of dross that F1 teams sign up is beyond belief.

F1 doesn't ever even seem to try and sign up the drivers who came 2nd and 3rd in GP2 etc. I don't understand this F1 thing where the teams sign up bog-standard drivers, especially if they are not pay drivers.

To this day I shall never understand why Jenson Button was so readily snapped up by Williams after an F3 season where he measurably had his arse kicked by Marc Hynes. Williams doing a driver shoot-out was sad enough, that Hynes wasn't a part of it was amazing. Button's management were serious silver-tongued smooth talkers to get him into that shoot-out and into that team.

Meanwhile the superior Marc Hynes no longer has a motorsport career.


Come on. I don't know a whole lot about Marc Hynes, but implying that Button didn't deserve a test a look is ridiculous. The guy won three races in F3 as a rookie (which Hynes was not) in only his second year in cars, a year after dominating British Formula Ford with 9 wins. That shows a lot of natural talent. In retrospect, a couple more years in a lower formula would have served him well, but he showed his speed in those tests and earned the seat.

#29 Imperial

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Posted 10 April 2008 - 07:18

Originally posted by tkulla


Come on. I don't know a whole lot about Marc Hynes, but implying that Button didn't deserve a test a look is ridiculous. The guy won three races in F3 as a rookie (which Hynes was not) in only his second year in cars, a year after dominating British Formula Ford with 9 wins. That shows a lot of natural talent. In retrospect, a couple more years in a lower formula would have served him well, but he showed his speed in those tests and earned the seat.


I'm not quite swayed, but nevertheless that Hynes as British F3 Champ (arguably the best below-F1 single-seater series in the world at that time) was completely ignored by single-seater motorsport after taking the title shall always be one of the great mysteries. Little wonder he's been the subject of more than one "what went wrong?" style article in major motorsport magazines.

#30 Galko877

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Posted 10 April 2008 - 07:57

Not a bad idea. I'm not impressed by Sutil.

#31 Frogman

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Posted 10 April 2008 - 07:59

Originally posted by gem
Fisi is underrated

:lol: :rotfl: :lol: :rotfl: :lol:

Oh, you were serious? Sorry!
I wouldn't go as far as calling him overrated, but he's certainly not underrated.

#32 Imperial

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Posted 10 April 2008 - 08:01

Fisichella is long since past the stage where he could be considered underrated.

#33 WOOT

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Posted 10 April 2008 - 11:39

Originally posted by MiPe
let me guess - you are of Polish descent, and watching F1 whole two weeks


he's being hailed as being the next schumacher. his results are dismal. in indy he came 8th in the 3rd best car with nicks car already out due to mechanical failure. Not spectacular is he? and he's being outscored by his teammate this season already.

#34 glorius&victorius

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 15:57

I am loosing my patience with Sutil. Better to put Sato in the second Force India.

The big shame is that Force India is now getting to a point where if one driver doesn't score points, the other could...

I dont know why they still hold on to Sutil. Yes he looked promising and fast last year on some occasions, and yes his stock rose because in F3 he was the only one who could keep within 5 seconds of Lewis during their races... but he's not materializing all the hope that has been put on him.

I dont know if Liuzzi is the best, but I wish to see a solid point scoring driver.... someone like Tiago Monteiro.;) Not fast but brings home the car.

Even Ralf would have done better.

#35 WOOT

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 15:59

Originally posted by MiPe
let me guess - you are of Polish descent, and watching F1 whole two weeks


No I am not of Polish descent. And I think Kubica is overrated. On the other hand someone really needs to replace Vettel. He's the only driver so far not to have finished a race.

#36 StefanV

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 16:14

What I can not understand is why drivers in teams that have very small budgets to begin with crashes cars like there was no tomorrow. It was not like Sutil was making a pass for the lead or anything like that. Vettel was unlucky today, but he seem to suffer from the same "playstation" syndrome as Sutil. You can not simply reset & restart a REAL F1 race.

#37 DarthWillie

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 16:16

Originally posted by WOOT


No I am not of Polish descent. And I think Kubica is overrated. On the other hand someone really needs to replace Vettel. He's the only driver so far not to have finished a race.

You can't seriously blame Vettel for today can you??????????????????

#38 sopa

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 16:20

0,7-second loss in qualifying was way-way too much. I think Liuzzi could do better than that. Although Liuzzi has been prone to errors too, he also makes them less than Sutil.

#39 WOOT

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 16:23

Originally posted by DarthWillie
You can't seriously blame Vettel for today can you??????????????????


Yes I can. He doesn't seem to have the race craft necessary to navigate his way through starts.

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#40 Sakae

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 16:37

Originally posted by WOOT
I think someone should replace Vettel as well.

Agree; I nominate Kubica.

#41 WOOT

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 16:38

Originally posted by MiPe
Agree; I nominate Kubica.


But who's going to replace Kubica? Webber?

#42 Sakae

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 16:43

Originally posted by WOOT


Yes I can. He doesn't seem to have the race craft necessary to navigate his way through starts.

F1 live timing cleared him not only from having reponsibility for what those two other guys did, but also stated that Vettel had nowhere to go when impact occurred.

#43 Sakae

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 16:44

Originally posted by WOOT


But who's going to replace Kubica? Webber?

Vettel, of course.

#44 DarthWillie

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 16:47

Originally posted by WOOT


Yes I can. He doesn't seem to have the race craft necessary to navigate his way through starts.

Ofcourse you can, free rights and stuff. But you shouldn't. People might not take you seriously.

#45 WOOT

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 17:00

Originally posted by MiPe
F1 live timing cleared him not only from having reponsibility for what those two other guys did, but also stated that Vettel had nowhere to go when impact occurred.


I am not blaming for the incident. I am just saying he doesn't seem to have the race craft to avoid them. He's the only driver who's yet to finish a race. The stats don't lie.

#46 DarthWillie

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 17:26

Statistics are meaningless. In 1989 Gerhard Berger didn't finish the first 9 races. Doesn't mean he is a bad driver.

#47 WOOT

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 17:28

Originally posted by DarthWillie
Statistics are meaningless. In 1989 Gerhard Berger didn't finish the first 9 races. Doesn't mean he is a bad driver.


Statistics are meaningless but if you look at the causes then they give you the bigger picture. Vettel either doesn't have the concentration or lacks the race craft to navigate around other cars safely.

#48 StefanV

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 17:29

Originally posted by DarthWillie
Statistics are meaningless. In 1989 Gerhard Berger didn't finish the first 9 races. Doesn't mean he is a bad driver.

Hehe, you could have picked a better example ;)

#49 Youichi

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 17:55

Originally posted by DarthWillie
You can't seriously blame Vettel for today can you??????????????????


why not ? who was driving his car ?

#50 Ivan

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 17:58

Why on earth would Kubica want to go to a worse team? One that may not be here in a few years.