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What if it was a driver ?


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#51 Spunout

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Posted 16 April 2008 - 12:33

Originally posted by geGR


:) .I am sorry, I just can't bear to hear a man talking this way about women, regardless of whether he is a race driver. This is solely my personal opinion, of course.


Too bad. That´s the way most 20 something guys talk.

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#52 Locai

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Posted 16 April 2008 - 12:37

Originally posted by Perigee

Not that I've ever been to one but....not everybody pays a hooker because they cannot pull themselves. Plenty of high profile footballers been caught with hookers. Perhaps it is because, although you are constantly in demand, if your particular fetish for being whipped/ shat on or whatever is a bit weird or nasty, you might still have an unsatisfied lust that most of the girls who throw themselves at you would be unwilling to perform...or be even more likely to go to the papers with.


I believe that Charlie Sheen once said something like, "I don't paying women for sex. I pay them to LEAVE afterward."

But, on a more serious note: Right or wrong, a member of a governing body is expected to behave in a much more conservative manner than those he governs. A leader should lead by example.

Contrary to what Max may believe, the FIA is not his kingdom. He was elected. And those same people that elected him are having serious questions as to his continued abilities to govern the sport of motor racing. My guess is that if he doesn't leave voluntarily soon (and he's shown no inclination to do so) then he will eventually be forced out. The longer he 'digs in his heels' then the more he will damage the credibility of the FIA and damage his legacy.

There is nobody that I have heard of who is publicly supporting him and way too many people that are publicly calling for his resignation. Eventually, there will be a vote and I doubt that anybody will dare to vote to keep him. The sooner he realizes this, the better off everybody will be.

#53 FLB

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Posted 16 April 2008 - 12:49

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
Sheckter actually got hauled into court over it, which is a problem. He was also driving for Jaguar which was more than a little image conscious. They had sponsors like HSBC at the time. In some ways more corporate than McLaren. I also get the impression they weren't that keen to keep him.

The more I've thought about it, the more I have the impression that it was actually a very cleaver way for him to get out of his Jaguar contract...

#54 geGR

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Posted 16 April 2008 - 14:01

Originally posted by Spunout


Too bad. That´s the way most 20 something guys talk.


Sadly, I am aware of that. Sadly x 2, it's not even limited to the age you mention. But I am sure this is off topic...

#55 Chiara

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Posted 16 April 2008 - 14:33

Originally posted by Perigee

Not that I've ever been to one but....not everybody pays a hooker because they cannot pull themselves. Plenty of high profile footballers been caught with hookers. Perhaps it is because, although you are constantly in demand, if your particular fetish for being whipped/ shat on or whatever is a bit weird or nasty, you might still have an unsatisfied lust that most of the girls who throw themselves at you would be unwilling to perform...or be even more likely to go to the papers with.


I think also footballers (well in the UK anyway) are targetted by a certain type of pretty girls intent on getting them into bed, only to go to the NOTW the following day and get them in all sorts of trouble by doing a kiss and tell. Because tabloids do pay money for this sort of trashy rubbish. I remember a friend of mine once went out with a footballer and he was very very cagey about the risk of being exposed in a kiss and tell story.

So maybe the thought on behalf of the footballers is that if they fancy anything a little bit kinky they are best off going to a prostitute because they are paying her already to keep silent so to speak.

#56 MarkWRX

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Posted 16 April 2008 - 15:39

Originally posted by Cosworth-Daz
Well i know we have had enough topics about mosley etc,

But What if it was a formula 1 driver who had been caught up in such a thing(spankgate),
What do you think would happen? would his team drop him?
Would he be punished by the FIA??

what would happen in gereral???


Wasn't it Tomas Schecter who was caught "curb crawling" (which is, I guess, UK speak for soliciting prostitutes) and was summarily sacked from his testing duties with Jaguar F1?

His next stop was the US since he couldn't find a ride in the UK or EU.

I think any major figure in motorsport who was caught up in a similar situation would face the same problems and, since drivers are employees or contractors, they can be dismissed somewhat more easily than can Max.

A Team Principal? Same thing, unless it was Flavio, in which case he would probably ask for his personal copy of the video.

#57 lukywill

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Posted 16 April 2008 - 15:50

Originally posted by Spunout


Sure. Toyota people would hire more bodyguards for Max to keep paparazzis away, while their own executives play school girl fantasies behind closed doors.

;)


:D

#58 giacomo

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Posted 16 April 2008 - 21:02

Originally posted by FLB
These guys never have been exactly saints.

DC had a crash a couple of years ago in Monaco. He supposedly had 8 girls riding in his car and lost control when a girl decided to sit on his lap while he was driving. The antics of James Hunt are legendary. There's an anecdote in one of Rainier Schlegelmilch's about Ronnie Peterson, an air stewardess and a garden hose. Nelson Piquet (Sr.) saw multiple women at the same time: he had four kids from three women.

Enzo Ferrari's son Piero was the result of a long-term affair with his secretary, Lina Lardi. Stirling Moss was a reknown skirt chaser. Mike Hawthorn had an illegitimate daughter.

If Spankgate had involved a driver, people would have laughed it off.

None of this mentioned cases is comparable with the Spankgate affair: No prostitution, no exploitation, no degradation, no humiliation, no film camera.

If a driver or teamboss would have been filmed while doing suchlike dubios degrading and humiliation acts with five prostitutes, Mosley would have digged out the ambigouos clause about 'bringing the sport into disrepute'.

#59 Vitesse2

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 08:40

Originally posted by giacomo
None of this mentioned cases is comparable with the Spankgate affair: No prostitution, no exploitation, no degradation, no humiliation, no film camera.

If a driver or teamboss would have been filmed while doing suchlike dubios degrading and humiliation acts with five prostitutes, Mosley would have digged out the ambigouos clause about 'bringing the sport into disrepute'.

As far as Mosley goes there's also the "dirty old man" aspect. FLB mentioned several near-legendary F1 "pork swordsmen" - Fon de Portago was no slouch with the ladies either ;)

I can't think of any career-ending incidents involving sex (although there is one that doesn't get talked about - for various reasons ;) ), but two well-known 1930s British drivers slipped from view after serving prison sentences for their involvement in fatal road accidents. Kaye Don was jailed on the Isle of Man when his riding mechanic was killed during an unofficial practice run.

In 1935 Le Mans winner Luis Fontes received a 3-year sentence for manslaughter after killing a motorcyclist while driving under the influence of alcohol and also had his driving licence rescinded for ten years. The latter would have effectively ended his career, but that became academic when he died in an air crash in 1940.

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#60 Kaz-F1

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 08:49

Can't compare Scheckter with Max

Scheckter was a police matter, Max broke no laws and is not the subject of a police enquiry, Scheckter was arrested so much more serious than the Max thing as what Max did was private and broke no laws

Kaz xx

#61 Pikku Pakkanen

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 12:13

Originally posted by Kaz-F1
Can't compare Scheckter with Max

Scheckter was a police matter, Max broke no laws and is not the subject of a police enquiry, Scheckter was arrested so much more serious than the Max thing as what Max did was private and broke no laws

Kaz xx


Soliciting a prostitute - a serious police matter

Bying five prostitutes and then spanking them and penetrating them in many different ways - nothing wrong with that

Rule Britannia!

:lol:

#62 Locai

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 12:20

Originally posted by Kaz-F1
Can't compare Scheckter with Max

Scheckter was a police matter, Max broke no laws and is not the subject of a police enquiry, Scheckter was arrested so much more serious than the Max thing as what Max did was private and broke no laws

Kaz xx


I wasn't aware that hiring (5!) prostitutes was legal in Britain????

As far as I know, Scheckter was only (allegedly) TRYING to hire 1 prostitute. Max (allegedly) successfully hired 5 prostitutes. How is Max's thing not more serious?

At least in the US, successfully committing a crime is usually more serious than attempting and failing to commit the same crime.

#63 Paolo

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 12:32

Originally posted by geGR


After reading that interview, I confess to being rather glad that his career was ruined.


Me, I just became a Tomas Sheckter Fan.

#64 supersato

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 18:16

Originally posted by geGR


After reading that interview, I confess to being rather glad that his career was ruined.


agreed :up:

#65 Villes Gilleneuve

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 18:34

Originally posted by Josta
Somehow, I don't see an F1 driver needing to pay hookers to do whatever he wants them to. Any F1 driver can have their pick of girls. Even the really ugly ones.


I too have my pick of the really ugly girls.

No sponsors for me yet.


Jody Scheckter is no saint.he's rumored to supply arms to most of the juntas in Africa.

#66 Vitesse2

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 19:58

Originally posted by Villes Gilleneuve

Jody Scheckter is no saint.he's rumored to supply arms to most of the juntas in Africa.

Pardon?

Since 1996 he's run an organic farm in Hampshire called Laverstoke Park. His previous - very successful - business was called Firearms Training Systems, which used computer simulators to train police and armed forces how best to use guns. He sold that for $200 million.

#67 se7en_24

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 20:11

Originally posted by Pikku Pakkanen


Soliciting a prostitute - a serious police matter

Bying five prostitutes and then spanking them and penetrating them in many different ways - nothing wrong with that

Rule Britannia!

:lol:

It's mainly to try and keep prostitutes off the street where they are in danger and also bring the area down - who would like hookers looking for business walking up and down their street and perverts driving up and down. If you were a woman walking home in an area known for prostitution would you like men slowing down next to you and asking "How much love?". Seems like a perfectly reasonable law to me.

#68 se7en_24

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 20:12

Originally posted by Locai


I wasn't aware that hiring (5!) prostitutes was legal in Britain????

As far as I know, Scheckter was only (allegedly) TRYING to hire 1 prostitute. Max (allegedly) successfully hired 5 prostitutes. How is Max's thing not more serious?

Max wasn't kerb crawling. :)

However the whole 'incident' as a package is far more serious than what Scheckter got up to, but only morally and not legally.

#69 giacomo

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 20:16

Originally posted by se7en_24
It's mainly to try and keep prostitutes off the street where they are in danger and also bring the area down - who would like hookers looking for business walking up and down their street and perverts driving up and down. If you were a woman walking home in an area known for prostitution would you like men slowing down next to you and asking "How much love?". Seems like a perfectly reasonable law to me.

In fact that means that shagging whores is fine and dandy as long nothing is visible at the facade. But if you dare to show your true colours you're in trouble and will be punished.

Sounds like a goddamn hypocrite law for me.

#70 se7en_24

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 20:20

Originally posted by giacomo
In fact that means that shagging whores is fine and dandy as long nothing is visible at the facade. But if you dare to show your true colours you're in trouble and will be punished.

Sounds like a goddamn hypocrite law for me.

It's a law to protect the prostitutes or other women in the area more than anything. A far, far higher amount of prostitutes are raped and murdered on the streets rather than in well run brothels. All those 5 or so prostitutes that were murdered in Ipswich last year were on the street. It's not a hypocrite law at all, you choose to look at it that way that's all.

#71 giacomo

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 20:32

Originally posted by se7en_24

It's a law to protect the prostitutes or other women in the area more than anything. A far, far higher amount of prostitutes are raped and murdered on the streets rather than in well run brothels. All those 5 or so prostitutes that were murdered in Ipswich last year were on the street. It's not a hypocrite law at all, you choose to look at it that way that's all.

And you choose to look at it the other way, right?

Here some interesting facts about your mentioned "well run brothels" where the prostitutes are so well protected:
http://www.uri.edu/a...s/hughes/uk.htm

One hundred Brazilian women, aged between 18 and 25, were promised work in London, as nannies, maids, dancers, escorts by Carlos Pires and his girlfriend. Once in the UK, they were prostituted to 10 to 15 men in 12-hour sessions, six to seven days a week. The women's passports and travel documents were confiscated so they could not get away. From the minimum charge of £250 for sex, the women were allowed to keep £50-60. Each woman was charged £7, 500-9, 000 for being brought to the UK and £350-450 a week for accommodation and expenses.
...
In London, Glasgow, Manchester and Dublin, Chinese Triads keep 10 women in each house; they are only allowed out with a minder.
...
In a raid in six separate Triad-run brothels in London, 10 women from Malaysia, Hong Kong and Thailand were found. They were prostituted in 12-14 hour shifts, seven days a week. The women were given only a small percentage of the fee; from which was deducted airfares, rent and meals. Their identification papers were confiscated.

#72 Spunout

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 20:32

Yep. I suppose giacomo means "we know prostitution is evil but we´ll allow it anyway, as long as nobody sees it". But if you assume prostitution isn´t evil (according to lawmakers), then everything makes sense. You aren´t allowed to sell vodka anywhere you want. Does that make alcohol laws hypocrite?

#73 giacomo

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 20:35

Originally posted by Spunout
Yep. I suppose giacomo means "we know prostitution is evil but we´ll allow it anyway, as long as nobody sees it". But if you assume prostitution isn´t evil (according to lawmakers), then everything makes sense. You aren´t allowed to sell vodka anywhere you want. Does that make alcohol laws hypocrite?

Yes. It makes absolutely no sense to prohibit the selling of vodka at place A, when it's perfectly legal to buy it at place B.

Suchlike laws only protect place B. Without any effect onto the essence of the whole thingy - the selling of vodka at all.

#74 se7en_24

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 21:02

Originally posted by giacomo
And you choose to look at it the other way, right?

Here some interesting facts about your mentioned "well run brothels" where the prostitutes are so well protected:
http://www.uri.edu/a...s/hughes/uk.htm

One hundred Brazilian women, aged between 18 and 25, were promised work in London, as nannies, maids, dancers, escorts by Carlos Pires and his girlfriend. Once in the UK, they were prostituted to 10 to 15 men in 12-hour sessions, six to seven days a week. The women's passports and travel documents were confiscated so they could not get away. From the minimum charge of £250 for sex, the women were allowed to keep £50-60. Each woman was charged £7, 500-9, 000 for being brought to the UK and £350-450 a week for accommodation and expenses.
...
In London, Glasgow, Manchester and Dublin, Chinese Triads keep 10 women in each house; they are only allowed out with a minder.
...
In a raid in six separate Triad-run brothels in London, 10 women from Malaysia, Hong Kong and Thailand were found. They were prostituted in 12-14 hour shifts, seven days a week. The women were given only a small percentage of the fee; from which was deducted airfares, rent and meals. Their identification papers were confiscated.

I think you'll find what happened there is also illegal, whats your point? :confused:

#75 giacomo

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 21:12

Originally posted by se7en_24

I think you'll find what happened there is also illegal, whats your point? :confused:

The point is that I don't believe for a second into the "well run brothels" you mentioned.

AFAIK running a brothel is illegal in Britain. So brothels are run by professional criminals - people who make a living by offend against the law.

It is absolutely implausible to assume that those criminals are running their illegal brothels 'well', as you claimed.

#76 Pikku Pakkanen

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 21:12

Originally posted by se7en_24

I think you'll find what happened there is also illegal, whats your point? :confused:



I think the point is: Why is hiring a prostitute legal in a brothel but illegal in the street, when in both places the prostitutes are in great danger and exploited by criminals?

#77 se7en_24

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 21:22

Originally posted by Pikku Pakkanen



I think the point is: Why is hiring a prostitute legal in a brothel but illegal in the street, when in both places the prostitutes are in great danger and exploited by criminals?

Because prostitutes are far more in danger on the streets. It doesn't matter how they got there, that isn't what we are talking about. The fact is that a much much higher percentage of prostitutes on the streets get raped or murdered than in brothels, I don't see why there is so much confusion here. :confused:

Feel free to prove me wrong on that fact.

#78 giacomo

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 21:25

Originally posted by se7en_24

Because prostitutes are far more in danger on the streets. It doesn't matter how they got there, that isn't what we are talking about. The fact is that a much much higher percentage of prostitutes on the streets get raped or murdered than in brothels, I don't see why there is so much confusion here. :confused:

Prove it. Deliver figures about the raping and murdering of hookers on the street and in brothels.

With reliable sources.

#79 Pikku Pakkanen

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 21:26

Originally posted by se7en_24

Because prostitutes are far more in danger on the streets. It doesn't matter how they got there, that isn't what we are talking about. The fact is that a much much higher percentage of prostitutes on the streets get raped or murdered than in brothels, I don't see why there is so much confusion here. :confused:

Feel free to prove me wrong on that fact.


So this

http://www.uri.edu/a...s/hughes/uk.htm

is all fine as long as they are not killed in the streets?

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#80 giacomo

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 21:35

Originally posted by Pikku Pakkanen

So this
http://www.uri.edu/a...s/hughes/uk.htm
is all fine as long as they are not killed in the streets?

Abused whores in the streets bring the area down. To quote se7en_24: "Who would like hookers looking for business walking up and down their street and perverts driving up and down?"

Much better to store them in well run brothels where their pimps and clients can exploit and abuse them peaceable and without irritating neighbours and passerbys.

#81 se7en_24

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 21:39

Originally posted by Pikku Pakkanen


So this

http://www.uri.edu/a...s/hughes/uk.htm

is all fine as long as they are not killed in the streets?

Sorry, where did I say it was fine? It's completely irrelevant to the conversation we are having though, no matter how much you and giacomo seem to want to divert the subject into that completely different area.

I'll try and dig up some stats if I can be bothered, I however didn't make up this law and the only prostitute murders I can think off have all been prostitutes on the street. I can think of at least 5 prostitute murders in the last year or so (and it's not like I follow these kind of things), all prostitutes that were looking for business on the streets.

We're getting way off topic anyway, I don't see why you two are so obsessed with what seems to me to be an obvious reason why they would ban street prostitution.

#82 se7en_24

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 21:40

Originally posted by giacomo
Abused whores in the streets bring the area down. To quote se7en_24: "Who would like hookers looking for business walking up and down their street and perverts driving up and down?"

Much better to store them in well run brothels where their pimps and clients can exploit and abuse them peaceable and without irritating neighbours and passerbys.

Nice bit of selective quoting there, I can't even be bothered 'debating' with you anymore, bye. :wave:

#83 giacomo

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 21:43

On the other hand your obsession to defend what I rate as a goddamn hypocrite law is a mystery for me.

Do you run a brothel? Or do you frequent brothels?

#84 Pikku Pakkanen

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 21:45

Originally posted by se7en_24
Sorry, where did I say it was fine? It's completely irrelevant to the conversation we are having though, no matter how much you and giacomo seem to want to divert the subject into that completely different area.

I'll try and dig up some stats if I can be bothered, I however didn't make up this law and the only prostitute murders I can think off have all been prostitutes on the street. I can think of at least 5 prostitute murders in the last year or so (and it's not like I follow these kind of things), all prostitutes that were looking for business on the streets.

We're getting way off topic anyway, I don't see why you two are so obsessed with what seems to me to be an obvious reason why they would ban street prostitution.


Oh come on, it's just like Giacomo said, people just want the whores off the streets because it doesn't look nice.

If they wanted to protect the women, hiring prostitutes would be illegal in brothels too.

#85 se7en_24

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 21:52

Originally posted by Pikku Pakkanen


Oh come on, it's just like Giacomo said, people just want the whores off the streets because it doesn't look nice.

If they wanted to protect the women, hiring prostitutes would be illegal in brothels too.

I'm not saying it shouldn't be, but both kerb crawling and trafficking (which you seem to obsessed about) is. Like I said I don't make the laws but I can see why both of those things are illegal.

It's not just people want them off the streets because it doesn't look nice, it attracts all kinds of criminal elements to the area, drugs, trafficking (!!!!!!!) etc. plus it makes it dangerous for all women in the area to walk around, not just prostitutes.

Anyway, that's my last word on this subject, it's obvious to me why the law on kerb crawling exists, but not to you - we're not going to change each others minds so let's just agree to disagree. At least you didn't start the personal insults and selective quoting like giacomo. :up:

#86 Pikku Pakkanen

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 22:13

Originally posted by se7en_24

I'm not saying it shouldn't be, but both kerb crawling and trafficking (which you seem to obsessed about) is. Like I said I don't make the laws but I can see why both of those things are illegal.

It's not just people want them off the streets because it doesn't look nice, it attracts all kinds of criminal elements to the area, drugs, trafficking (!!!!!!!) etc. plus it makes it dangerous for all women in the area to walk around, not just prostitutes.

Anyway, that's my last word on this subject, it's obvious to me why the law on kerb crawling exists, but not to you - we're not going to change each others minds so let's just agree to disagree. At least you didn't start the personal insults and selective quoting like giacomo. :up:



I'm obsessed about trafficking? Well, I do think about it about once every five years so I guess I am.

Also brothels attract all kinds of criminal elements to the area, drugs, trafficking etc.

I've never said kerb crawling should be legal. On the contrary, I think visiting brothels should be illegal too.

Do we know who those young girls, that Max was spanking and f---ing, were? Did they get their share of the £2500 or did they just have to pay for their flights, food and accommodation. Did they have to service 5 other violent customers that day? And 50 more next week? Every week?