81 replies to this topic

[Manfred Cubenoggin]

I was just about to post when I noticed that 'fines' had already mentioned the Yamaha OX99 above and it would seem that he wasn't too keen on the experience. Evidently, 'green-blood' has 1st-hand experience with hearing this unit as well but is at the opposite end of the stick.

The last GP that I attended in the flesh was Montreal, 1992. I was quite favourably impressed with sound of the 5-valve mill. It seemed to have that extra little 'trill' at the top of the rev range just before an upchange that really appealed to my ears.

It seemed that every other person at the meet was flogging ear plugs. Every other person was wearing them. Tsk, tsk...

A link to Yamaha's own page with two pix and a brief description of the car & engine.

http://www.yamaha-mo...y192/index.html

[simonlewisbooks]

Originally posted by Manfred Cubenoggin

The last GP that I attended in the flesh was Montreal, 1992. I was quite favourably impressed with sound of the 5-valve mill. It seemed to have that extra little 'trill' at the top of the rev range just before an upchange that really appealed to my ears.
[/url]

The Tickford built JUDD V8 5 valve which Lotus tested (did it ever race) in, I think, 1989, also had a very exotic sound compared to the somewhat flat bark of the standard 4 valve version. Wonder what happened to those engines after the Lotus connection ended?

[Doug Nye]

Another candidate for 'best noise' could well be the 250LM Ferrari. Richard Attwood still can't help smiling when he recalls the car he shared - I think with Lucien Bianchi - echoing between pits and grandstands at Reims during the 12-Hour race. With those small-bore tail-pipes, max revs on the straight and crisp chill night air the nose was absolutely distinctive, and absolutely piercing.

DCN

[Andrew Stevens]

The Jaguar XJ13 firing up in the Wakefield Garage in Adelaide when it came 'downunder' for the Grand Prix was pretty good. Lots of dust and flecks of paint started to gently rain down from the rafters of the building Getting my photo taken sitting in it was a bonus! Surely one of the best looking cars ever built and on my favourites list...

[ralt12]

My addition would be the Ferrari 712, in the very early morning at the Kendall Tech Center in Watkins Glen for its first Can-Am race. The car didn't have a single decal on it, having just arrived, and as the mechanics started it in the cool, crisp morning air the whole crowd surrounding it knew that was a special moment. Truly impressive stuff.

[fuzzi]

My nominations are :

The Alfa Romeo Alfetta 159 - Straight 8 and supercharged. I first heard one extended when Mike Sparken demonstrated Carole Spagg's car at a Vintage Silverstone and really gave it some beans out of the corners.

The second: Anthony Hartley's Maserati V4 being run up in the paddock at Goodwood - 16 cylinders, two superchargers and no silencers added up to a symphony and a lot of smiling faces.

An ERA being driven up Shelsley Walsh with the sound echoing off the tree lined slopes.

[race4aliving]

I love the sound of the "Rolls Royce Merlin"

[tomkatf]

The loudest I ever heard was the blaring, grating, piercing, earwax-crystallizing screech of the IMSA Camel Light Mazda's (Jim Downing's Mazda/Argo ?) at Riverside in the mid-80's. Painful even with plugs and muffs. I can't imagine what the 4-rotor must have been like!

Best,
Tom

[JacnGille]

Yes, when the first Mazdas ran in IMSA they were unmuffled. I was standin with the turn seven workers at Road Atlanta durin a practice session. We all heald our ears and the corner workers wondered out loud how they be able to hear their radio communications over the howl of the Mazdas.

[john aston]

ERAs - another of my favourites I forgot to nominate.Like all supercharged engines they sound different - the revs don't seem to rise and fall incrementally - there is just a great percussive WHAP which makes the hairs on your neck stand up.Used to do lots of hillclimb marshalling and the sight sound and smell of an ERA was something special.

As we have strayed off topic here are a couple more favourites - Metro 6R4 - plug ugly but sounded more like a Ferrari than the real thing and of course the full house Quattro Sport rally car- fantastic warbling bellow , punctuated by bangs pops and hisses - quite a beast to encounter in the depths of a Yorkshire forest.Just like WRC rallying now- not...

If anyone also shares my V8 habit google musclecar calendar -some heavy metal thunder on there.

[nmansellfan]

The BMW V12's in the McLaren F1 GTR made your stomach rumble when they went past, i saw them at Donnington in about '95 or '96 at British GT race. The main event that day was a round of the Thoroughbred GP championship, it was the first time i had actually heard Grand Prix cars of any sort in the flesh. We were standing outfield at the entry to Coppice, and i swore under my breath when they left the grid in anger; you couldn't hear anthing else and they were over 1/2 a mile away...

The stand out engine in that race was the V12 in the back of a BRM P201 (i think, green and silver with MOTUL sponsorship, huge engine cover). When it accelerated out of Coppice and down under the Dunlop bridge with the exhausts directly at you, the sound kind of tore the air in the same way a jet fighter does when it does a low pass with the throttles wide open.

I've never heard a turbo GP car live, but the Champcars didn't sound quiet to me when listening to them warming up in the pits at Rockingham, 6ft away...

I must give a mention to the current A1GP cars, the sound of them blasting down to Hawthorns while sitting at the outside edge entry (and very close, there are places round the back of Brands Hatch where you can definately still get very close to the action) was fantastic, particularly the popping and banging when the drivers came off the throttle.

[Thundersports]

Agree with earlier posts the V10 cars are definently the loudest in Euroboss there are a handful which are running 4000cc V10 Judds ear splitting! The Turbo cars were a little dissapointing in the decibels stakes. My favourite for sound was the Aston Martin AMR1 I will take the noise of that beast blasting up Hailwood Hill to the grave with me.

[JSF]

The big block 9 litre Can Am cars engines are my thing, i just love the way they beat on your chest. I cant stand the DFV and similar engines, i find them painfull, modern F1 engines have nothing going for them, back when we had the V12's it was far more bearable and characterfull. The worst for me are the Mazda tripple and quad rotor powered cars, absolute agony to be around at full chat.

The TDi race engines are so quiet, because they have to run with exhaust particulate scrubbers, thats what stops all the black smoke which the engines are producing when generating big torque being seen out the exhaust pipe. Not my idea of a race engines sound, but sadly the future, we now see TDi's in the BTCC for the first time with the SEAT's.

[Rob Semmeling]

Originally posted by HDonaldCapps
While I fully appreciate the notion that the noise is important aspect of racing for just about everyone here, I am one of those who definitely prefers the Audi R10 level of noise.

Well put and I agree, especially since one of my ears is already slightly damaged. That may well have something do to with Nick Heidfeld coming by at full tilt with his BMW F107 three metres away at the old Nürburgring. My earplugs weren't up for the job.

And louder certainly does not always equal better. Watching a demo of vintage 1920s and 1930s cars and motorcycles was just splendid. They were nowhere near ear-shattering but sounded magnificent all the same.

[Gary Davies]

Originally posted by Stephen W


I'll second that! Oh and the best place to experience the ear-drum shattering noise - Casino Square, Monaco!

Yum! That would been good indeed. I had been thinking along the lines of hearing it winding through the hills of the Auvergne. I had the pleasure of witnessing a Clark masterclass there in 1965 and loved the place, primitive as it was. In the 1972 Grand Prix at Clermont-Ferrand Chris Amon had his customary bad luck in the early laps, a puncture, and I imagine he was running alone for a while after his forced pit stop. How marvellous it would have sounded as the car wound its place towards your vantage point, then passed, and disappeared up and away round the bends.

Actually, I do have a recollection of the Matra running alone for a while at Silverstone. Was it the 1971 British Grand Prix? Didn't he get held up at the start or something? Whatever... I have a memory of the pack coming past me somewhere around Chapel, with the Matra being quite audible even though it would have been way over towards Abbey at the time.

All of which fills me with dismay when I reflect on the homogeneous noise of a modern Grand Prix pack passing by. Too noisy, certainly, and with a thrilling wail, but they're all the bloody same!

[lanciaman]

Originally posted by Andrew Kitson
I agree with John...nothing compares to the 8000bhp of a modern top fuel nitro dragster when the light turns green. The earth does shake, as does your whole body even from the spectator bank. Huge 5ft high flames from the exhausts add to the spectacle and trying to understand the rapid acceleration of a machine that can reach 100mph within 60ft, guzzling it's nitro-methane mix at a rate of 15 gallons over the quarter mile.

When I became the advert/pr director for Indianapolis Raceway Park in the 1970s, I'd never been to a drag race though that was the backbone of the circuit's revenue stream (IRP has a 2.5 mile road course, a 7/10ths banked oval and the famous dragstrip, home of the US Nationals; the track came under National Hot Rod Ownership, to the disadvantage of the road course, which has virtually never paid for itself, though the oval track is site for many successful races each year). As a road racer, I had a decided lack of respect and high degree of ignorance about drag racing.

As some of my most important responsibilities were to revolve around drag racing events, I wanted to get a good briefing on how things worked and went to the first weekend event I could.

Two Funny Cars were next on the program. I went to the Christams Tree and positioned myself behind the starter, figuring to get a real close view of things. I wondered why he looked at me with a smile; I was wearing no ear protection and had on a short sleeve shirt and shorts.

When the lights went and the cars lit up up, I had about 5000 horsepower in each ear; the fuel fumes made my contact lenses feel like they'd bonded themselves to my corneas. I was sure my ears were bleeding. The earth shook. My skin stung. I probably wet myself. I was sure it was the equivalent of standing at the base of a Saturn rocket as the fuse was lit.

It was incredible and made ANY other engine sound absolutely puny by comparison.

A few years later I had occasion to observe Don Prudhomme's team change pistons-- after each run-- in 20 minutes. Amazing precison and organization.

Any motorsport that sees drivers retire because of detached retinas-- from decelleration-- has got my respect!

A few years ago I did a project for a fellow that housed the championship team of Kenny Bernstein, a multiple Double A fuel dragster champion. One day I asked Kenny's son, a racer in his own right, if they ever ran up the engine in the large, two-story building. He looked at me like I was daft. "If we did," he said, "we'd blow out all the windows and probably bring down the building."

You gotta love horsepower.

[simonlewisbooks]

Originally posted by JSF
The TDi race engines are so quiet, because they have to run with exhaust particulate scrubbers, thats what stops all the black smoke which the engines are producing when generating big torque being seen out the exhaust pipe. Not my idea of a race engines sound, but sadly the future, we now see TDi's in the BTCC for the first time with the SEAT's.

The way the price of diesel is racing ahead of unleaded at the pumps, I'm not sure it is the future any more!

[Andrew Kitson]

Originally posted by lanciaman

As a road racer, I had a decided lack of respect and high degree of ignorance about drag racing.

That, lanciaman, still exists to a large extent throughout the whole circuit racing community.
99% of those have never been. Racing journos Nigel Roebuck and Marcus Pye were both gobsmacked
at this relatively unknown form of the sport (to circuit racers) when they attended a drag meeting.

Only when they have actually been and witnessed these beasts in the flesh and seen the high level
of technology and professionalism that the top teams have, do they come to accept how serious a
business it is and how difficult it can be. A fast run might only last 4.5 seconds, but keeping it away
from the wall or centreline at almost 320mph (330 in the USA) with tyre shake and wheelspin for the
entire 1/4 commands respect. It is often said steering a nitro dragster is like trying to steer a corkscrew!
Then the crew get to work as lanciaman says, engine out, new bearings, new clutch, new pistons if
necessary and an engine warm-up and check and all of this after every 1/4 mile run! Just watching the
crews frantically working under their awnings is fascinating enough.

What I like about this sport more than anything is the wide variety of vehicles ( and bikes, jet cars etc)
taking part throughout the many classes. There does not seem to be any problems with noise issues either
( at Santa Pod ) with an evening curfew at 9pm all year round. There is no better place to hear a big V8!
May 24-26th at the Pod is the first round of the European FIA Championships.

These statistics are a few years out of date, but gives some idea of the power of a top fueller:

A typical engine would be a supercharged 500 cubic inch (8 litre) V8 hemi, generating around 6000bhp or more. This is more power than the front three rows of a Formula 1 starting grid!

They are capable of running down a 1/4 mile drag strip in around 4.5 seconds and have crossed line in the past at 330mph. They can accelerate from 0 to 100mph in under 0.8 seconds and this can cause up to 8Gs of G-Force on the driver at the start line

A Top Fuel dragster running flat out will consume around 1.5 gallons of Nitromethane per second; a fully loaded Boeing 747 consumes jet fuel at about the same rate but with 25% less energy being produced.

The spark plugs operate at around 44 amps, using the same sort of power as an Arc Welder; this causes the electrodes on the ends of the spark plug to completely disintegrate within the first 1/8 mile. However this doesn't cause a problem as by the second half of the run, the motor is dieselling ie: it is igniting the air-fuel mixture without the help of a spark due to the sheer force of the compression and the extremely hot exhaust valves.

Nitromethane burns yellow, yet during a night race-meet you can occasionally see white flames above the exhausts, this is actually raw burning hydrogen. It will have been disassociated from the water vapour in the surrounding air by the searing hot exhaust gases being pumped out of the exhaust stack. The force of the escaping gases also adds to the cars' traction by creating a downforce of some 3558 newtons(800 pounds).

Running at a redline of 9500rpm the engine will only manage about 600 revolutions from start light to finish line, yet they will still need a complete strip down and rebuild after every run. This means that assuming all the equipment is paid off, the crew work for free, and nothing actually goes wrong, each run is estimated to cost about £850 per second.

A Top Fuel dragster can reach 300mph before you have completed reading this sentence.

[Manfred Cubenoggin]

I've been to exactly ONE organized drag race in my entire life of almost six decades.

It was 1965. The event was staged at the now-abondoned strip near Deseronto, Ontario. A local rodder from my hometown of Bowmanville...not far from Mosport...treated myself and a couple of buddies to a trip to the strip to watch the action. We got there quite early and spent the entire day up in the bleechers.

Two memories still remain. The first was the Canadian-based rail that cranked off an impressive 8-3/4 second ET with a top speed of something like 180+ mph. Those were pretty good times for the day compared to the hot stuff South of the border. I was so proud. (Of course, such performance wouldn't even get you in the show in the Pro Stock class these days)

The second was the 'grudge match' between a Chevy Impala 427 vs a Ford Galaxie ditto. The Chevy used a 4-speed manual trans; the Galaxie, an automatic. I don't recall the numbers but the races were very entertaining and the two traded wins til finally, the Galaxie prevailed in the final run.

I haven't been back since but it was a fun day nonetheless. I can barely imagine what I'd find in this day & age. One of these days...

[JSF]

Originally posted by simonlewisbooks


The way the price of diesel is racing ahead of unleaded at the pumps, I'm not sure it is the future any more!

It would have to be double to not be financially viable, and the way the tax system is being manipulated, it's very much being pushed as the fuel to use regarding CO2 banding. It's horible stuff, with far more dangers for health than pump petrol, but that doesnt seem to be on the agenda these days where MMGW is the gospel message.

[simonlewisbooks]

Originally posted by JSF

It's horible stuff, with far more dangers for health than pump petrol, but that doesnt seem to be on the agenda these days ...

There is but one thing that is truly on any government's agenda - TAX - and how to screw the maximum amount of it out of all of us, by any means possible (multi-millionaire Hedge Fund managers apparently exempt from this in Britain....)

George Harrison's perceptive song has never been more apt!

[RacingMonk]

Originally posted by man
I seem to remember the Porsche V12 in the back of the Footwork had quite a distinctive sound.

Usually valve hitting piston if I remember correctly.

[Francois78]

Hello .
A motorsport video with the noisy Aston martin AMR1 during test sessions at Dijon in 1989 .
http://hoslotfrance.free.fr/?p=229

Hope you'll enjoy . François.

[ron54]

A little bit O.T. perhaps but I did notice that the helpful femail startline marshal at the
recent Goodwood F.O.S. was not wearing ear mufflers.
I,m sure she would have been wearing foam plugs but even so brave lady!.

[jimclark]

Having just discovered this thread, I may be too late but I will ask anyway.

'Curious whether the numerous mentions of the BRM V-16 were really s'posed to be mentions of the '66 H-16 that only won once (Watkins Glen, behind Jimmy)....????

'Never heard either as I was just getting hooked on racing as a 12 year old here in the states in '66. I know the V-16 was some years prior to the H so I, again, am just wondering. I find the H-16 to be quite a n interesting concept. Too heavy and fragile but neat nonetheless....

[onelung]

Hopefully on topic: we lived less than a km from the Adelaide street circuit used in the days of turbo F1 cars and the subsequent normally aspirated cars.
This is before the Victorians stole the race from us, of course... 'though now that might not be such a bad thing since they're now wearing the financial burden.
From our place of residence, the sound level of the turbo cars was significantly greater than the 3.5's - no question about it.
As to the "quality" of the sound ..?
I still have memories of an ERA at Oulton Park, and the Mercedes-Benz W 154 at Sandown. No substitute for a blown car, I reckon, but if we can include motorcycles I'll take the Hondas anytime - still recall the sound of one at the 2011 Goodwood Revival echoing across from the far side of the track. Superb!

[RogerFrench]

Having just discovered this thread, I may be too late but I will ask anyway.

'Curious whether the numerous mentions of the BRM V-16 were really s'posed to be mentions of the '66 H-16 that only won once (Watkins Glen, behind Jimmy)....????

'Never heard either as I was just getting hooked on racing as a 12 year old here in the states in '66. I know the V-16 was some years prior to the H so I, again, am just wondering. I find the H-16 to be quite a n interesting concept. Too heavy and fragile but neat nonetheless....

I'm pretty sure they all meant V16, not H. I did anyway.

[jimclark]

I'm pretty sure they all meant V16, not H. I did anyway.

I reviewed the posts...and you mentioned "maybe" 1965...did you mean 1966 which would have been the H-16?

[retriever]

I'll second that! Oh and the best place to experience the ear-drum shattering noise - Casino Square, Monaco!

The sound of Amon's Matra rebounding off of the walls of Monaco as he played catch-up after a delayed start. Even muted via the BBC broadcast it still was a sound to rejoice.

[RogerFrench]

I reviewed the posts...and you mentioned "maybe" 1965...did you mean 1966 which would have been the H-16?

The car to which I referred has the engine at the front, narrow tyres, a B... great supercharger, and 16 stub exhaust pipes. I'm pretty sure it was the V16!

On the other hand it might well have been 1966, but if so he would have been competing in the H-16, not demonstrating, surely?

[Macca]

Definitely the V16 1.5 litre s/c from 1950-53 - absolutely a banshee scream when revving, whichever exhausts used, from 16 little cylinders.

The H16 from 1966-67, while also having 16 cylinders, makes a deeper bellowing noise, if one is polite about it..........or if not, it sounds like a bag of rusty nuts being shaken! I remember being disappointed at the sound when I first heard it at Brands Hatch in 1967, and seeing and hearing it at Goodwood in recent years only confirms it.

BRM V16:

BRM H16:

Paul M

[jimclark]

Thanks for the clarification gents. I sure would liked to hear them both live....

edit: My nuts are rusty...and they sure as bloody 'eck can't take too much of a shakin'....

Edited by jimclark, 25 July 2013 - 01:56.