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Montezemolo: Alonso not desirable at Ferrari


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#101 WOOT

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 17:54

Originally posted by SlateGray

You mean a driver that can live up to an agreement between team and teammate, a driver that does not complain that they
"have #2 on the car so they must be a #2 driver" or a driver that can finish what they start, a driver that does not collapse under pressure when the championship is only 4 points away with two full races to go. Looks like Ferrari will never have use for a prat like Hamilton anytime soon if those are the conditions, you never know perhaps the kid will grow up and in the process learn the value of keeping your word to your team and teammate. He may also manage to learn some race craft along the way. Stranger things have happened but don't expect to see Lewis (me me me) Hamilton at Ferrari any time soon.


Yes because Alonso didn't lose a similar lead to Kimi during the last few races. Considering his experience advantage over Hamilton that makes it even more of an embarrassment. Him all over the place in Canada, acting like an idiot in Indy when he couldn't pass Hamilton on track, crashing out in Fuji. Embarrassing that for a guy of his experience he couldn't take advantage of Hamilton's mistakes. Just imagine that, with all the mistakes Hamilton did, the best Alonso could do was to finish level with him (on points, but behind him in the WDC standing). Shockingly bad performance from a driver who was expected to thrash hamilton at the start of the season. Just goes to show Alonso is nothing without the best car, best tires, a subservient teammate, undisputed #1 status and a team willing to sabotage Fisi just so that Alonso can finish ahead of him. He is just a flash in a pan.

Look at where Alonso is now when he doesn't have a good car. Pathetic excuse of an driver.

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#102 Man of the race

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 18:04

Originally posted by Mrv
Kubica looks pretty good to me. What about Rosberg? You guys fail to realize that in F1 today there is very little to chose between the drivers. Give them that Ferrari and they will open your eyes. The difference in ability is not that huge like everyone thinks at this level.


You hit the head of a nail. There are more options than Alonso, and truly seriously capable. If not yet, after two years definitely. Those you mentioned, Kovalainen, or some else. Maybe Hamilton too is the man to have. As we have been told, an agreement can be rewritten.

#103 WOOT

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 18:06

That's true. A lot of guys would outperform Alonso in the same car as long as they are given equal chance. Vettel, Rosberg, Webber, Button, Trulli, Kova, Kubica, Heidfeld. Alonso isn't anything special.

#104 BMW_F1

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 18:14

If we read Luca's comments about Alonso and Lewis after the end of last season. ( I posted his quotes on top of this page), it is clear who he would prefer as a replacement for Kimi if he was to retire.
All this garbage about Alonso not being wanted because of how he behaved last season is pure garbage and a fabrication of those who dislike the Spaniard. I had already asked in different threads for comments or quotes from important people in the paddock to back up this claim and I've yet to see one. To the contrary, we still see him get praised by many people/bosses/drivers.
I think what happens is that some people in here pay too much attention to the British press including the TV commentaries and forget to think on their own to draw their own conclusions.

#105 Crazy Ninja

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 18:24

Originally posted by WOOT



Look at where Alonso is now when he doesn't have a good car. Pathetic excuse of an driver.


Yep, double world chamions tend to be just that......

Anyway, from a Formula 1 fans point of view i'd love to see Alonso and Raikkonen in the same car, although from a Ferrari fans point of view i'd be unsure due to the way last season turned out for him at Mclaren. Having said that though, it seems as if Alonso and Raikkonen have a healthy amount of respect for each other and i doubt Domenicali is as emotionally involved with his drivers as Ron was/is which would (hopefully) eradicate any doubts on favoritism within the team if Raikkonen (hypothetically) were to be quicker than Alonso.

#106 RedFury

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 18:32

Originally posted by as65p


And this year it's even more fun because he's embarassing himself. What a entertainer


Hehe. Honesty truly is a double-edged sword.

#107 RedFury

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 18:36

Originally posted by WOOT
That's true. A lot of guys would outperform Alonso in the same car as long as they are given equal chance. Vettel, Rosberg, Webber, Button, Trulli, Kova, Kubica, Heidfeld. Alonso isn't anything special.


If my grandma had wheels she'd be an F-1 car and undoubtedly beat Alonso as well.

#108 Jerome

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 18:40

Perhaps it has already been mentioned, but I would advise the anti-Alonso people and Ferrari fans who don't like him to hold on to their butts. Some posters here find the Luca quote something to conclude: 'Oh right, Alonso won't be coming to Ferrari then.' But, if you know Formula 1, Italy and Ferrari, it means something else.

Political and public denial.

Why is Luca saying stuff like this? Why doesn't he just say: 'Alonso and Ferrari, that is just not a serious option. We are not in talks with him, we have not been, and anywas, he wouldn't fit in.'

Because Ferrari and Alonso is a very big possibility.

The way Luca di Montezemelo talks about Ferrari and Alonso, is very, very political. I would never write it down as a journalist, because it's conjecture, but I think, just like many of the cognoscienti probably: 'Aha. So Ferrari IS talking to Alonso. They ARE thinking about him. But Luca wants his first driver Kimi to know he has nothing to worry about... AT THIS moment.'

I can't see another reason why Luca would otherwise deny contacts between Ferrari and Alonso the way he does now.

#109 Suntrek

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 18:44

Originally posted by britishtrident
What a surprise Ferrari have finally decided that Massa ain't that bad and Alonso is poision -- Ron Dennis could have told them that last year.

Only weeks into a new season and Alonso still hasn't learned the old adage -- When you are in a hole stop digging !

Alonso by moaning about his new team he has just reminded everybody of his antics at McCedes, FA is a pretty decent driver but he comes with just too much baggage. He carries more chips than Harry Ramsdens.


(To those from outside the UK Harry Ramsden's is a a very famous national chain of Fish and Chip restraunts )


You don't have to make amends for those outside UK, from your post alone we perfectly realize you are
INSIDE the UK. And here I beg forgiveness because there are a lot of Brit guys I am perfectly willing to listen to.









However, you are not one of them, brítishtrident. :(

#110 Beyond

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 18:45

in fact alonso would be at ferrari now were not raikkonen there, obviously. but since also massa is good enough, he won't be at ferrari soon at least

#111 se7en_24

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 18:47

Slategray thinks Alonso will be going to Ferrari, so that basically means there is no chance of it happening.

#112 SlateGray

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 18:55

Originally posted by se7en_24
Slategray thinks Alonso will be going to Ferrari, so that basically means there is no chance of it happening.

Who is Slategray?

#113 SlateGray

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 18:59

Originally posted by WOOT
Their relative orders should be Alonso over Kimi wherever they are on the list.



#114 britishtrident

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 19:06

Originally posted by Suntrek


You don't have to make amends for those outside UK, from your post alone we perfectly realize you are
INSIDE the UK. And here I beg forgiveness because there are a lot of Brit guys I am perfectly willing to listen to.









However, you are not one of them, brítishtrident. :(


At least I don't keep knocking a team good enough to give me a drive when no other major team would touch me.

Alonso can drive BUT ....



#115 SlateGray

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 19:19

Originally posted by britishtrident


At least I don't keep knocking a team good enough to give me a drive when no other major team would touch me.

Alonso can drive BUT ....


Who do you drive for and why are you knocking your team? :stoned:

If you mean Alonso is knocking his team perhaps you could show a quote?

When eating Ham chew it well to help prevent a choking problem.

#116 Suntrek

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 19:21

Originally posted by britishtrident


At least I don't keep knocking a team good enough to give me a drive when no other major team would touch me.

Alonso can drive BUT ....


I think you sort of lost me somewhere around "team good enough to give me a drive when no other major team would touch me" :stoned:


But thanks for the effort.

#117 BMW_F1

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 19:26

this dude britishtrident is clueless..

#118 F1Johnny

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 19:49

Originally posted by SlateGray

You mean a driver that can live up to an agreement between team and teammate, a driver that does not complain that they
"have #2 on the car so they must be a #2 driver" or a driver that can finish what they start, a driver that does not collapse under pressure when the championship is only 4 points away with two full races to go. Looks like Ferrari will never have use for a prat like Hamilton anytime soon if those are the conditions, you never know perhaps the kid will grow up and in the process learn the value of keeping your word to your team and teammate. He may also manage to learn some race craft along the way. Stranger things have happened but don't expect to see Lewis (me me me) Hamilton at Ferrari any time soon.


You really have a Hamilton complex. The thread is about Alonso and Ferrari, yet you feel compelled to raise Hamilton and that Hamilton will not be at Ferrari. Did anyone say that LH should be at Ferrari?

#119 prxty

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 20:01

Originally posted by Man of the race
What Luca said was that signing Alonso would damage the team. If it is more or less the same than what the title says, one can decide by himself.

I guess you are not very good at reading. Nor are the many British motorsport websites. The only thing that Montezzemolo says is:

"To line up a Raikkonen-Alonso double act would mean wanting to damage yourself. I want two equal drivers that work together,"



He only says that the two together will not work. Not that Alonso is not desirable at Ferrari. Not as long as Kimi is one of their drivers. But this is the opinion of many, two big horses together is not good.

On the on-line version of "La Gazzetta dello Sport" this is the "extract" of the paper interview:

Si dice compiaciuto della passione di Alonso per la Ferrari ma "schierare una coppia Raikkonen-Alonso significherebbe volersi far male: io voglio due piloti equilibrati, che collaborino".

.

Has anyone of the so-called journalists from Autosport or F1-Live or whoever read the full interview? Do you want to bet? No, no need.

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#120 Gecko

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 20:03

Originally posted by SlateGray

You mean a driver that can live up to an agreement between team and teammate, a driver that does not complain that they
"have #2 on the car so they must be a #2 driver" or a driver that can finish what they start, a driver that does not collapse under pressure when the championship is only 4 points away with two full races to go. Looks like Ferrari will never have use for a prat like Hamilton anytime soon if those are the conditions, you never know perhaps the kid will grow up and in the process learn the value of keeping your word to your team and teammate. He may also manage to learn some race craft along the way. Stranger things have happened but don't expect to see Lewis (me me me) Hamilton at Ferrari any time soon.


Remind me, when did Ferrari ever even mention Hamilton as a possible driver?

#121 prxty

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 20:06

Originally posted by MichaelPM


Hamilton complains Alonso is favoured = Hamilton wants equality.
Alonso complains Hamilton is favoured = Alonso will not expect anything but No.1 seat unchallenged.

How long will this stupidity continue?

As long as this BB exists. This is a biased with a great majority being pro-Hamilton, anti-Ferrari, anti-Alonso as they were anti-Schumacher. And don't bother telling the opposite if you don't want to be banned.

So is the life.

#122 prxty

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 20:12

Originally posted by BMW_F1


what we don't know is what he was specifically asked. Its the same story again as it happened with Alonso.
The journo asks a question specifically about Ferrari to Alonso so its only obvious that he answers about what he's being asked.
In this case we do not know what they asked LdMz, most probably it was a question directly about the teams trying or wanting to hire ALonso next year. It is obvious that since this is not on their scope (did people forget Massa's and Kimi's contracts), he says Alonso is not being considered.

Actually all sites jumping on the "news" Reuters prepared without having any real information on the interview shows what is to be a journalist nowadays. Pay to buy news from an agency that writes from "I head that ...".

:down:

#123 se7en_24

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 20:15

Originally posted by Gecko


Remind me, when did Ferrari ever even mention Hamilton as a possible driver?

Don't bother. He's an obsessed middle aged fool who's initial obsession has retired (after becoming the most successful F1 driver ever) has now a new target to work with. Pretty sad really.

#124 prxty

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 20:22

Originally posted by WOOT
That's true. A lot of guys would outperform Alonso in the same car as long as they are given equal chance. Vettel, Rosberg, Webber, Button, Trulli, Kova, Kubica, Heidfeld. Alonso isn't anything special.

Interesting that Alonso has more GP wins that all of them together. And it's eight drivers.
You must be well known for seeing what others can not see.

#125 SlateGray

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 20:24

Originally posted by Gecko
Remind me, when did Ferrari ever even mention Hamilton as a possible driver?


Why would they when they only want quality drivers. Both Kimi & Massa are head and shoulders better than the Ham. Now Alonso may or may not be better than Kimi but he does have Massa covered. So Ferrari could improve the lineup by ditching Massa for Alonso.

#126 WOOT

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 20:25

Originally posted by prxty

As long as this BB exists. This is a biased with a great majority being pro-Hamilton, anti-Ferrari, anti-Alonso as they were anti-Schumacher. And don't bother telling the opposite if you don't want to be banned.

So is the life.


Which is surprising considering the majority of the poster heres seem to be Ferrari fanatics and Hamilton bashers.

Originally posted by SlateGray


Why would they when they only want quality drivers. Both Kimi & Massa are head and shoulders better than the Ham. Now Alonso may or may not be better than Kimi but he does have Massa covered. So Ferrari could improve the lineup by ditching Massa for Alonso.


If Alonso couldn't even beat Hamilton then he has no chance with Kimi or Massa because like you said, Kimi and Massa are head and shoulders better than Ham.

Originally posted by prxty

Interesting that Alonso has more GP wins that all of them together. And it's eight drivers.
You must be well known for seeing what others can not see.


They don't have the cars. Let's see Alonso win a GP this year. Everyone of the drivers I listed would have dominated Alonso if given the same car and equal treatment.

#127 prxty

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 20:42

Originally posted by WOOT

They don't have the cars. Let's see Alonso win a GP this year. Everyone of the drivers I listed would have dominated Alonso if given the same car and equal treatment.

This is a bold assumption. You can hold this BS only in a BB. And you know it (I hope cos I don't want to think you are stupid).

Jenson had the second best car for one year. Kubica and Heidfeld do have the second best car on the grid.

Webber and Trulli are "only" fast qualyfiers that do not have the race pace Alonso has (therefore no WDC material). Button is a Ralf Schumacher type of racer. With a good car when all things are OK it's blindly fast. This is three or four races per year. Rosberg, Vettel and Kovalainen are not (yet?) prepared to win a WDC in car like the Renault of 2005 or 2006 and against Kimi or MSchu. Heidfeld is slightly above Trulli but nothing special, even if he could win a WDC with the right car. Kubica is the only one that could become something similar to Alonso but it is not yet at the same level.

#128 SlateGray

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 20:47

Originally posted by WOOT
Kimi and Massa are head and shoulders better than Ham.


Originally posted by WOOT
Their relative orders should be Alonso over Kimi wherever they are on the list.


:lol:

#129 Bluesmoke

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 20:55

It's beyond me how people can be so guillible. Luca's comments mean absolutely nothing! He may or may not want Alonso. There's no way to know.

What did people expect him to say: "I wouldn't mind having Alonso on the team"?

That would be an absolute disaster for Ferrari, with Massa being constantly asked where he will go by the press, and in turn may cost Ferrari the WCC or WDC if one of their drivers isn't motivated and creates team rift.

If Alonso goes to Ferrari, it will happen the same way Alonso went to Mclaren - in secrecy that the press didn't know of. Like Button signing for Williams and Montoya to Mclaren 4 years ago.

#130 Bluesmoke

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 20:57

Originally posted by WOOT


Which is surprising considering the majority of the poster heres seem to be Ferrari fanatics and Hamilton bashers.



If Alonso couldn't even beat Hamilton then he has no chance with Kimi or Massa because like you said, Kimi and Massa are head and shoulders better than Ham.



They don't have the cars. Let's see Alonso win a GP this year. Everyone of the drivers I listed would have dominated Alonso if given the same car and equal treatment.


You're an idiot! Next time when you inhale carbon monoxide from your crappy car, breath in a little more. :rolleyes:

#131 WOOT

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 21:07

Originally posted by SlateGray




:lol:


What I did was I used your original statement of "kimi and massa being above ham" to show the consequences if alonso raced with kimi, i.e. alonso has no chance. everything in the previous statement is based on logic
from your statement and what happened to alonso in 2007. of course i have my preferences and I think alonso would beat kimi, but by your logic of kimi and massa being above ham, that means alonso wouldn't come anywhere near kimi.

#132 Rustygordon

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 21:10

Its been a long month since WOOT joined the message board. At least its somewhat entertaining to those that normally don't get involved

#133 WOOT

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 21:10

Originally posted by prxty

This is a bold assumption. You can hold this BS only in a BB. And you know it (I hope cos I don't want to think you are stupid).

Jenson had the second best car for one year. Kubica and Heidfeld do have the second best car on the grid.

Webber and Trulli are "only" fast qualyfiers that do not have the race pace Alonso has (therefore no WDC material). Button is a Ralf Schumacher type of racer. With a good car when all things are OK it's blindly fast. This is three or four races per year. Rosberg, Vettel and Kovalainen are not (yet?) prepared to win a WDC in car like the Renault of 2005 or 2006 and against Kimi or MSchu. Heidfeld is slightly above Trulli but nothing special, even if he could win a WDC with the right car. Kubica is the only one that could become something similar to Alonso but it is not yet at the same level.


Jenson had the second best car for a year ( when Ferrari absolutely dominated). Webber and Trulli not having race pace? Maybe they were outqualifying their cars and that's why their race pace looked slower. Perhaps this is exactly the reason why Kimi's race pace looks faster, because he doesn't qualify his car as well as it should? Rosberg, Vettel and Kova have good quali but absolutely stunning race pace. They would decimate Alonso in a same car. I don't want to even go what Kubica or Heidfeld would do to Alonso in the same car. Utter domination.

#134 giacomo

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 21:12

One has to love those threads about out-of-context one-liners.

Especially the augurs who are reinterpreting 'To line up a Raikkonen-Alonso double act would mean wanting to damage yourself. I want two equal drivers that work together' into 'I desperately want Alonso, but shush, don't tell anyone'.

#135 SlateGray

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 21:13

Originally posted by WOOT


What I did was I used your original statement of "kimi and massa being above ham" to show the consequences if alonso raced with kimi, i.e. alonso has no chance. everything in the previous statement is based on logic
from your statement and what happened to alonso in 2007. of course i have my preferences and I think alonso would beat kimi, but by your logic of kimi and massa being above ham, that means alonso wouldn't come anywhere near kimi.

:lol:

#136 Suntrek

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 21:50

Originally posted by WOOT


What I did was I used your original statement of "kimi and massa being above ham" to show the consequences if alonso raced with kimi, i.e. alonso has no chance. everything in the previous statement is based on logic
from your statement and what happened to alonso in 2007. of course i have my preferences and I think alonso would beat kimi, but by your logic of kimi and massa being above ham, that means alonso wouldn't come anywhere near kimi.



Who needs drugs when this kind of posts produce the same feeling? :stoned:

#137 as65p

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 21:59

Originally posted by Suntrek


Who needs drugs when this kind of posts produce the same feeling? :stoned:


:) If only he had avoided this typing error when chosing a nick... "MOOT" would have fitted perfectly.

#138 Suntrek

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 22:18

Originally posted by as65p


:) If only he had avoided this typing error when chosing a nick... "MOOT" would have fitted perfectly.


:lol:

#139 mowaru

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 22:20

Originally posted by Gareth
It's also good business to avoid annoying those you might want to employ.

So whilst you wouldn't expect anything from LdM saying "Alonso is amazing, I must have him regardless of the price" if he was after him, I wouldn't expect to see something quite this strong in the other direction either.


I'm sure Teams and drivers don't communicate with each other through newspapers ... or internet media ...

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#140 mowaru

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 22:33

Originally posted by Bluesmoke
It's beyond me how people can be so guillible. Luca's comments mean absolutely nothing! He may or may not want Alonso. There's no way to know.

What did people expect him to say: "I wouldn't mind having Alonso on the team"?

That would be an absolute disaster for Ferrari, with Massa being constantly asked where he will go by the press, and in turn may cost Ferrari the WCC or WDC if one of their drivers isn't motivated and creates team rift.

If Alonso goes to Ferrari, it will happen the same way Alonso went to Mclaren - in secrecy that the press didn't know of. Like Button signing for Williams and Montoya to Mclaren 4 years ago.


:up:

I totally agree with you ...

#141 mowaru

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 22:35

Originally posted by Suntrek


Who needs drugs when this kind of posts produce the same feeling? :stoned:


what kind of drugs do you take? :rotfl:

#142 quasi C

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 22:40

I like how he completely ignored Massa and immediately talks of Alonso-Raikkonen even if Massa has the longest contract of all of them. It might've been said already but I haven't read all the thread.

#143 Mauseri

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 22:56

Interesting to hear this from Montezemolo. He didnt like the time of unequal drivers then, the MS time :up: :up: :up: :up: :up: Although :down: :down: :down: :down: :down: for doing nothing to it.

Originally posted by vsubravet
Why do most presume that KR is going to retire after he gets one more title? Maybe his appetite will be whetted so much with WDCs & he savours the sweet taste of glory that he might want to continue racing beyond for many years.

I dont think KR has set targets he wants to win so and so many titles. First his goal was to win a championship. After first the natural goal is to try second... and so on :up:

Originally posted by as65p
Second the Kimi fans who fear that Alonso could be more of a threath than Massa. Those I don't understand at all - shouldn't we all look forward to another possible clash of the titans?

I think Kimi fans (or Kimi for that matter) havent really voiced concern against open competition.

It's rather the Alonso and Schumacher (together with their fans) who couldnt live with a straight fight.

#144 Suntrek

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 23:33

Originally posted by micra_k10
I think Kimi fans (or Kimi for that matter) havent really voiced concern against open competition.

It's rather the Alonso and Schumacher (together with their fans) who couldnt live with a straight fight.


:confused:

And when did you hear an Alonso fan - or Alonso himself for that matter - voice any concern for a straight fight with Kimi at Ferrari?

#145 WOOT

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 23:37

Originally posted by Suntrek


:confused:

And when did you hear an Alonso fan - or Alonso himself for that matter - voice any concern for a straight fight with Kimi at Ferrari?


I think Kimi fans know deep that in their heart that Kimi isn't as good as Alonso.

#146 Suntrek

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 23:57

Originally posted by mowaru


what kind of drugs do you take? :rotfl:


Don't need any, just reading this thread is mind-altering experience enough for a month. ;)

#147 GustavoB

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Posted 23 April 2008 - 00:06

4 pages of useless discussion from a quote that is not saying anything special. Just a reason for bashing between users.

Sometimes I feel sad...... :down:

Sorry

#148 Chiara

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Posted 23 April 2008 - 00:10

Originally posted by quasi C
I like how he completely ignored Massa and immediately talks of Alonso-Raikkonen even if Massa has the longest contract of all of them. It might've been said already but I haven't read all the thread.


Perhaps because it has often be touted in the media that Massa is out the door with a bootprint on his rear end in favour of Alonso, so perhaps LdM doesn't feel the need to clarify what Massa's position would be since its been trotted out enough.

#149 primer

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Posted 23 April 2008 - 00:16

Originally posted by ensign14
Damaged goods.

Fernando's best chances are to stick with Renault (Flavio?), and hope they get competetive soon.

#150 Mauseri

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Posted 23 April 2008 - 03:27

Originally posted by Suntrek
:confused:

And when did you hear an Alonso fan - or Alonso himself for that matter - voice any concern for a straight fight with Kimi at Ferrari?

Well, plenty of them, Alonso included, had a problem with a straight fight with Lewis. Why would it be any different with any other driver? What all should you have to do to please them? It would only cause instability.

Originally posted by WOOT
I think Kimi fans know deep that in their heart that Kimi isn't as good as Alonso.

Woot makes you think so? JPM was said to be a tough nut for Kimi... how did it turned out? And Hamilton last year sowed Alonso isnt unique. Alonso would be just another teammate, one I would very much like to see Kimi to drive him into weeds, but I presume not any teammanager was impressed with his behaviour last year.