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Bourdais - Ferrari link?


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#1 glorius&victorius

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 14:57

Is there some serious contact between Bourdais and Ferrari, for post-Massa or post-Kimi era??

I thought I heard ITV or RAI saying something about it.... (I watched the qualy on live TV with RAI and with 1.5 minute delay on ITV web feed...) It got a bit confusing in the end...but I thought I caught something about Ferrari's interest to SB.

Any news on Bourdais - Ferrari link?



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#2 modamas

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 15:07

Nicholas Todt is Bourdais´manager since last year, not? :confused:

#3 glorius&victorius

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 15:13

I think it was ITV saying it... but then they also mentioned something about Kimi extending his contract.. so I am not sure where how it would fit...

#4 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 16:14

I think that every driver seen with an upside will be rumored to be of interest to Ferrari, Renault, McLaren and BMW as long as both seats in those teams are not seen as secure for the current drivers.

Honestly can not see any driver be placed at Ferrari due being managed by Nicolas Todt, Ferrari take their racing a little more seriously than that.

Bourdais may one day become a Ferrari driver, but need to show some consistent great results, and both Kimi and Massa have to race for a couple of seasons more anyway.

So I am sure that there is nothing to these stories.

:cool:

#5 BMW_F1

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 16:16

I got a tell you Bourdais did an amazing job today putting that car in P6 in Q2. Vettel has a lot of catching to do..

#6 Juan Kerr

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 16:47

I've got this feeling lately that Bruno Senna will end up at Ferrari even though Ayrton drove for British teams.

#7 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 16:48

Originally posted by BMW_F1
I got a tell you Bourdais did an amazing job today putting that car in P6 in Q2. Vettel has a lot of catching to do..


I am not slamming either driver, I think that Renault were close to moronic in not holding on to Bourdais, I think that all teams are shown as poor at talent spotting for letting him win 4 Champcar championships without even thinking that he may be an upgrade for them on their driver side.

Vettel is a very good driver.

Bourdais is a very good driver.

This is the 4th Q they are tied 2 - 2 now IO think.

Vettel had them in Q3 at Australia.

I do not understand why there is this rush to mark either as the next great driver and the next great disappointment.

Come Monaco we will see Vettle battling for points during the race, and likely with Bourdais right there as well.

The Sebastians are seriously talented drivers, there really is not controversy in my mind.

And I will not judge either on one or two failed Q efforts. The team is one of the small ones, they will on occasion be struggling, today when all teams bring upgrades to their 2008 cars, Toro Rosso is still racing their 2007 car, Toro Rosso is doing very well, as they have since they got rif of Speed in favour of Vettel.



:cool:

#8 Imperial

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 17:07

Originally posted by Juan Kerr
I've got this feeling lately that Bruno Senna will end up at Ferrari even though Ayrton drove for British teams.


Bruno Senna?

I'm thinking Williams.....

#9 Imperial

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 17:10

Ferrari looks like a closed shop for several years. Massa and Raikkonen are both either signed up or won't want to leave and will sign again (if Raikkonen hasn't already extended his contract).

By the time a berth comes free at Ferrari I suspect Bourdais will have long since moved on from Toro Rosso and will be with a manufacturer elsewhere.

I don't think he needs to wait for them.

#10 IOU 16

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 17:12

Originally posted by Imperial
Ferrari looks like a closed shop for several years. Massa and Raikkonen are both either signed up or won't want to leave and will sign again (if Raikkonen hasn't already extended his contract).

By the time a berth comes free at Ferrari I suspect Bourdais will have long since moved on from Toro Rosso and will be with a manufacturer elsewhere.

I don't think he needs to wait for them.


I think Massa is on a short leash. But saying that, Ferrari would have to sign Bourdais for 2009 to get anything out of him. Bourdais is quite old compared to the other young drivers.

#11 primer

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 17:20

Originally posted by IOU 16

But saying that, Ferrari would have to sign Bourdais for 2009 to get anything out of him. Bourdais is quite old compared to the other young drivers.


A contract with options for extension would be best. I would like to see Bourdais at BMW (replace Heidfeld) or Ferrari (Massa).

#12 IOU 16

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 17:22

Originally posted by primer


A contract with options for extension would be best. I would like to see Bourdais at BMW (replace Heidfeld) or Ferrari (Massa).


Never thought about BMW. I thought about McLaren until they signed Heikki.

#13 giacomo

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 17:26

Yeah, link every single driver on the grid with Ferrari. :rolleyes:

#14 DarthWillie

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 17:26

Originally posted by KWSN - DSM


I am not slamming either driver, I think that Renault were close to moronic in not holding on to Bourdais, I think that all teams are shown as poor at talent spotting for letting him win 4 Champcar championships without even thinking that he may be an upgrade for them on their driver side.

Vettel is a very good driver.

Bourdais is a very good driver.

This is the 4th Q they are tied 2 - 2 now IO think.

Vettel had them in Q3 at Australia.

I do not understand why there is this rush to mark either as the next great driver and the next great disappointment.

Come Monaco we will see Vettle battling for points during the race, and likely with Bourdais right there as well.

The Sebastians are seriously talented drivers, there really is not controversy in my mind.

And I will not judge either on one or two failed Q efforts. The team is one of the small ones, they will on occasion be struggling, today when all teams bring upgrades to their 2008 cars, Toro Rosso is still racing their 2007 car, Toro Rosso is doing very well, as they have since they got rif of Speed in favour of Vettel.



:cool:

I think you're right. What I didn't expect, was how quick Bourdais got used to F1 qualifying. Seeing the recent history of champcars drivers that switched to F1 I thought he would need a longer time adapting.

#15 noikeee

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 17:28

Originally posted by BMW_F1
I got a tell you Bourdais did an amazing job today putting that car in P6 in Q2.


I missed Q1 and Q2 today and only gave a quick look at the times, so I didn't know that. Very impressive indeed, well done for Bourdais.

But as I said in the other thread, calm down everyone. 3 grand prixs ago, in Melbourne, it was the other way around. Vettel isn't a loser, and Bourdais isn't a god. Just like Bourdais wasn't a loser and Vettel wasn't a god a couple weeks ago. These threads don't make any sense.

#16 noikeee

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 17:32

Wait there a minute, I thought you were saying he put in P6 in Q1. :drunk: Still doesn't make sense.

The actual results:

Q1 -> Bourdais P13, Vettel P18, 6 tenths behind.
Q2 -> Bourdais P16.

#17 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 17:48

Brundle made a comment on ITV during qualifying and it wasn't Ferrari showing interest in Bordais, but in Vettel and thats why he had to pull up his socks.

#18 AFCA

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 17:59

Originally posted by Juan Kerr
I've got this feeling lately that Bruno Senna will end up at Ferrari even though Ayrton drove for British teams.


There are some rumours that Vettel will race for Red Bull in the last three races instead of Coulthard, and that Senna will step in the STR. I don't see it happen...

#19 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 18:14

Originally posted by DarthWillie
I think you're right. What I didn't expect, was how quick Bourdais got used to F1 qualifying. Seeing the recent history of champcars drivers that switched to F1 I thought he would need a longer time adapting.


I never really rated the previous couple of Champcar drivers as anything special, and I do think that Bourdais is a talented driver, he is mature and he is intellectually a smart racing driver, he knows what he talks about when he suggest corrections in the setup.

It is possible that he is a better F1 driver for the fact that he had some tenure maturing outside F1, some of the young ones are simply rushed to fast, fail and will never get the chance again.

Christian Klien should start looking at F1 now, instead he was dumped on the scrap heap and will never get another chance. Speed and Liuzzi were rushed to fast in to F1.

:cool:

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#20 WOOT

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 18:17

It would be shocking if Vettel got a place in Ferrari while being outperformed by Bourdais. It would be like DC getting a place in McLaren instead of Webber.

#21 glorius&victorius

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 18:19

Originally posted by Gilles4Ever
Brundle made a comment on ITV during qualifying and it wasn't Ferrari showing interest in Bordais, but in Vettel and thats why he had to pull up his socks.


ah... there we go... thanks for clearing that up :up:

(....perhaps Brundle mentioned this while the camera was on SB, who by the way got a lot of airtime today)

But anyway... would be nice to see a French driver in a Ferrari...
Lets hope SB maintains / betters his form this year and that nice opp's come up for him.

#22 pingu666

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 18:41

SB was pretty handy in sportscars or whatever too, at le mans?

#23 giacomo

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 18:41

Originally posted by KWSN - DSM
Christian Klien should start looking at F1 now, instead he was dumped on the scrap heap and will never get another chance. Speed and Liuzzi were rushed to fast in to F1.

Oh the benefit of hindsight. :

Also Raikkonen was rushed too fast into F1. But other than the mentioned drivers he shone immediately.

#24 pingu666

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 18:45

no one really rated speed well, so when they was pretty equal... liuzzi became poop too :/

#25 tahadar

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 19:10

Originally posted by Imperial


Bruno Senna?

I'm thinking Williams.....

i think it would be great if williams got a hold of bruno. drove pretty well today in the feature race at barca

#26 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 19:44

Originally posted by giacomo
Oh the benefit of hindsight. :

Also Raikkonen was rushed too fast into F1. But other than the mentioned drivers he shone immediately.


For what it is worth I am on record for saying that Kimi should not be allowed a Superlicense when he got one, and regardless of how it turned out that is still my opinion.

Likewise for Klien, I stated that he were being thrown in to F1 to early in his career when he came to F1.

So for me not hindsight at all, I think that the trend of bringing marginal driver in to early is hurting these drivers longterm some may be the next Kimi, but most will be the new Klien, Liuzzi, Speed.

:cool:

#27 CWeil

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 20:03

Originally posted by giacomo
Oh the benefit of hindsight. :

Also Raikkonen was rushed too fast into F1. But other than the mentioned drivers he shone immediately.


Raikkonen also had a better car than any of the other three have ever had.

#28 Risil

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 20:05

Originally posted by IOU 16


I think Massa is on a short leash. But saying that, Ferrari would have to sign Bourdais for 2009 to get anything out of him. Bourdais is quite old compared to the other young drivers.


Michael Schumacher had lost little of his speed by the time he was 38, and he was by no means unique. I think if anything it's more a question of motivation, which is obviously linked to the amount of time one has spent in F1 (and quite probably the success achieved).

By the time Ralf entered his 10th year of Formula One, he drove like a jaded senoir, in spite of being only 31. Aged 31, Rene Arnoux was battling with Gilles Villeneuve (who was 29) for second place of the 1979 French Grand Prix. Two years later Villeneuve produced the drive of his life to coax to victory a chassis for which the word recalcitrant could have been invented at Jarama. Nigel Mansell charged through to pass Nelson Piquet with two laps to go in the 1987 British Grand Prix aged 34. Alex Zanardi drove with verve, passion and youthful exuberance (enough clichés!) in the mid-'90s CART, after beginning his third decade.

Age is rarely a factor in driving ability - experience, and not being crushed by years of driving a car where a stunning, perfect weekend will see you pick up a couple of points to the indifference of all observers, is. As far as I can tell, the main reasons top drivers are getting so young these days are because they'll do what they're told, and to stop anyone else from getting their hands on them. Hamilton is a fantastic driver, but had Mclaren opted against putting him in the car Alonso would still have won them the title. However, Lewis could easily have walked away and signed for Williams or someone, and five years down the line would've been Champion in a car other than a Mclaren.

I for one do not wish to see a WDC incapable of growing a full beard. Unless it's Danica. :love:

#29 WACKO

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 20:20

Originally posted by WOOT
It would be shocking if Vettel got a place in Ferrari while being outperformed by Bourdais. It would be like DC getting a place in McLaren instead of Webber.


:lol: DC getting a place in McLaren. Only in the FIA season reviews of a good couple of years ago my friend. :)

I can only think of Bourdais at Ferrari as a successor of Badoer as a test driver. Doesn't take the team much shuffling the letters of the name sticker too.

#30 WACKO

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 20:27

Originally posted by Imperial


Bruno Senna?

I'm thinking Williams.....


As much as I can see the link... I don't think it wouldn't be most appropriate. Still. Not blaming Williams in the slightest of ways. It's just that it would be... odd.

#31 TennisUK

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 20:40

Originally posted by KWSN - DSM
Honestly can not see any driver be placed at Ferrari due being managed by Nicolas Todt, Ferrari take their racing a little more seriously than that.


Umm, Massa? (me ducks)

#32 Risil

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 20:58

Originally posted by TennisUK


Umm, Massa? (me ducks)


:D I think we both know that was a cruel thing to say.

#33 cathal

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 21:00

I'd see Vettel going to Ferrari before Bourdais. Bourdais seems kinda linked to Berger anyway so Id say he'll follow where ever he goes.

#34 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 21:30

Originally posted by TennisUK


Umm, Massa? (me ducks)


You think that Massa is with Ferrari due to Nicolas Todt being Jean's son?

I do not share that view, Massa is often portrayed as a 'mediocre', 'also ran', 'not worthy of his seat'. But he has for the past two seasons, won 6 races, taken 10 Pole postions, had 8 fastest laps and scored a 3rd and a 4th in the WDC, while scoring 174 points, in the same car that the most 'winning driver ever' and 'fastest F1 driver' have managed, 7 Pole positions, 13 fastest lap and 14 wins.

Massa is in a Ferrari race seat, because there are very very few drivers who will deliver as he is delivering, spoken or not as the defacto number 2 driver of the team.

He like all other drivers have his 'issues', and the stronger drivers are better to drive around or away from those, but he is a seriously fast racing driver who more times than not can be counted on to deliver.

Ferrari (or any other F1 team for that matter) do not hire drivers based on who their team managers son manage, they chose them based on racing capability for the most part. And Massa may not be Raikkonen, Hamilton or Alonso, but how many other drivers in the current field would you take over Massa for the inenviable position that being Ferrari 1B driver is??

:cool:

#35 Andrew Ford &F1

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 22:29

I'd love to see Bourdais in a top car! First of all, because he's an excellnt driver and deserves that and, secondly, because it'd be good for the sport. In the long run, I think Vettel has better chances of succeeding due to his age and also talent.

But since Bourdais is managed by Nicolas Todt, who knows. Imagine: in 2011 both Sebs are teammates again in FERRARI!

#36 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 22:37

Originally posted by Andrew, Ford &F1
I'd love to see Bourdais in a top car! First of all, because he's an excellnt driver and deserves that and, secondly, because it'd be good for the sport. In the long run, I think Vettel has better chances of succeeding due to his age and also talent.

But since Bourdais is managed by Nicolas Todt, who knows. Imagine: in 2011 both Sebs are teammates again in FERRARI!


Unless Vettel massively underperforms, then he will be THE driver BMW will go after.

:cool:

#37 WOOT

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 23:08

Originally posted by KWSN - DSM


Unless Vettel massively underperforms, then he will be THE driver BMW will go after.

:cool:


Why did they let him go in the first place? Vettel didn't do anything impressive even when he got the chance in Indy. He qualified low and finished low in the 3rd best car on that track. This season he's the only driver not to finish a race.

#38 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 02:08

Originally posted by WOOT


Why did they let him go in the first place? Vettel didn't do anything impressive even when he got the chance in Indy. He qualified low and finished low in the 3rd best car on that track. This season he's the only driver not to finish a race.


They let him go, since they have a driver pairing which in the short term will deliver better results, while they mold their team into a true contender for both titles. The option were to hold him to a testing contract for rest of 2008, and all of 2009, or let another team give him the race experience that he needs to evolve as a driver.

Vettel was not crap, he scored points in his first F1 race, the list of drivers doing that is pretty short, and not filled by many also rans.

Do you even follow F1?

I am yet to see a post from you that indicate that you do.

:cool:

#39 WOOT

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 02:14

Originally posted by KWSN - DSM


They let him go, since they have a driver pairing which in the short term will deliver better results, while they mold their team into a true contender for both titles. The option were to hold him to a testing contract for rest of 2008, and all of 2009, or let another team give him the race experience that he needs to evolve as a driver.

Vettel was not crap, he scored points in his first F1 race, the list of drivers doing that is pretty short, and not filled by many also rans.

Do you even follow F1?

I am yet to see a post from you that indicate that you do.

:cool:


He scored a point in his very first race in the 3rd best car. Big whoop! Am I supposed to be impressed? He qualified 7th. Heidfeld 5th. Vettel then proceeded to lose one place in the 3rd best car! And it's not like he was unfamiliar to the car, he was their test driver. Hyped beyond belief. I am glad that Bourdais is beating Vettel.

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#40 speedmaster

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 02:52

Originally posted by KWSN - DSM


You think that Massa is with Ferrari due to Nicolas Todt being Jean's son?

I do not share that view, Massa is often portrayed as a 'mediocre', 'also ran', 'not worthy of his seat'. But he has for the past two seasons, won 6 races, taken 10 Pole postions, had 8 fastest laps and scored a 3rd and a 4th in the WDC, while scoring 174 points, in the same car that the most 'winning driver ever' and 'fastest F1 driver' have managed, 7 Pole positions, 13 fastest lap and 14 wins.

Massa is in a Ferrari race seat, because there are very very few drivers who will deliver as he is delivering, spoken or not as the defacto number 2 driver of the team.

He like all other drivers have his 'issues', and the stronger drivers are better to drive around or away from those, but he is a seriously fast racing driver who more times than not can be counted on to deliver.

Ferrari (or any other F1 team for that matter) do not hire drivers based on who their team managers son manage, they chose them based on racing capability for the most part. And Massa may not be Raikkonen, Hamilton or Alonso, but how many other drivers in the current field would you take over Massa for the inenviable position that being Ferrari 1B driver is??

:cool:


Only problem with Massa is the fact that he is from a Latin American country who has won more championships than any other country - even Germany - in the last 30 years.... I agree totally with everything you wrote. He is as fast as any of them and lacks only a little more concentration but adding to what you said the kid has been put down twice and came back to the top in a unforgiving sport where come backs are extremelly rare. And, man, he is fast...very fast.... :up: :up: :up:

#41 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 04:14

Originally posted by speedmaster


Only problem with Massa is the fact that he is from a Latin American country who has won more championships than any other country - even Germany - in the last 30 years.... I agree totally with everything you wrote. He is as fast as any of them and lacks only a little more concentration but adding to what you said the kid has been put down twice and came back to the top in a unforgiving sport where come backs are extremelly rare. And, man, he is fast...very fast.... :up: :up: :up:


I concur.

He is indeed fast very very very fast, but he is not as 'complete' a package as Kimi, Fernando and Lewis (I think he is better than what he has show the last couple of races), and for that reason will have a career being 'Coulthard', 'Barichello', no mean feat, fine drivers who on their day can beat even the glorified team leader, but he will over a season have more off days, and days where he can just not stay with Kimi at all, presume we can agree that his not acknowledging that at Malaysia is why he did not finish second, as he should have.

I do not see another up and coming Brazilian who is the equal of Massa, and that is knowing full well that there is a fairly talented Senna in GP2.

:cool:

#42 kamix

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 04:24

Originally posted by KWSN - DSM


You think that Massa is with Ferrari due to Nicolas Todt being Jean's son?


Of course he is. He's driven Ferrari engines almost his whole career, and the year Sauber had no seat for him he tested Ferraris. They mapped his career moer than Hamilton at Mclaren.

#43 Ricardo F1

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 04:30

Massa is very quick - and like Barichello is settling in to being number two in the Ferrari team. Rubens probably actually wasn't as quick over a lap as Felipe is, but Felipe isn't going to win a WDC over Kimi. Ferrari is happy with a 1-2 situation, Massa will defect in a couple of year after feeling the shaft and end up where Rubens is.

#44 Digitaldrug

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 06:10

Originally posted by KWSN - DSM


You think that Massa is with Ferrari due to Nicolas Todt being Jean's son?

I do not share that view, Massa is often portrayed as a 'mediocre', 'also ran', 'not worthy of his seat'. But he has for the past two seasons, won 6 races, taken 10 Pole postions, had 8 fastest laps and scored a 3rd and a 4th in the WDC, while scoring 174 points, in the same car that the most 'winning driver ever' and 'fastest F1 driver' have managed, 7 Pole positions, 13 fastest lap and 14 wins.

Massa is in a Ferrari race seat, because there are very very few drivers who will deliver as he is delivering, spoken or not as the defacto number 2 driver of the team.

He like all other drivers have his 'issues', and the stronger drivers are better to drive around or away from those, but he is a seriously fast racing driver who more times than not can be counted on to deliver.

Ferrari (or any other F1 team for that matter) do not hire drivers based on who their team managers son manage, they chose them based on racing capability for the most part. And Massa may not be Raikkonen, Hamilton or Alonso, but how many other drivers in the current field would you take over Massa for the inenviable position that being Ferrari 1B driver is??

:cool:


Absolute garbage. Massa was hired as a ferrari driver after two seasons in F1 which consisted of being blown away by Heidfeld and then Fisichella. Hardly great credentials to be hired in any team let alone the best team. He got the seat because his manager was Todts son. And what hes done so far in the fastest car is nothing that a large part of the grid couldnt have done. Nothing special at all.

#45 MONTOYASPEED

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 06:23

Originally posted by speedmaster
Only problem with Massa is the fact that he is from a Latin American country who has won more championships than any other country - even Germany - in the last 30 years....


That argument does not do you any good if you think about it. Then Schumacher could say that he won more championships than Senna and Piquet combined :D