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Kovalainen's Crash


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#1 tahadar

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 19:53

has anybody else noticed that the whole front bulkhead was completely destroyed, possibly more so than in the the Kubica crash? the entire steering rack assembly is also missing from the front of the car. my question is, even though heikki seems to have come off completely unscathed, should the front of the cars, in your opinion be stronger? i was alarmed last year when i saw kubica's feet sticking out; he would have had really bad injuries had there been another seconday impact to the front of the car.

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#2 Enkei

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 19:55

The front of the car is designed that way to reduce the blow of impact during a crash.
It absorbs the energy, if the front of the car would be as hard as the monocoque, drivers would easier get hurt.

#3 wingwalker

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 20:14

I really afraid he is seriously hurt. Car went off at such a high speed, and it loose relatively little of it in the gravel trap(suddenly pavement run offs seem like a good idea) and smashed into the tyre barrier head on. Didn't bounce back, didn't loose any parts, just stopped. G's were probably higher than in Kubica crash. I was also afraid his legs are broken when they showed the car after he gave thumbs up - which was easily the moment of the race.

I think a few years ago race would be rad flagged, but they rely on safety car more these days.

#4 K-One

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 20:20

I looked quite serious indeed, but also good that car didn't go sideways and started to roll - then it could have really bad both for Heikki and spectators/marshals. Front was gone, also was afraid of leg injuries.

Let's see if he is going to race in Turkey, apparently he already called Haug and was making jokes

Really amazing that nothing bad happened, safety level is quite good nowdays :up:

#5 cathal

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 20:21

Safety is alot better in F1 than years ago and I'm sure HK will be fine. As mentioned the front is designed to buckle like that, absorbs the impact.

#6 pingu666

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 20:22

been awhile since theyve made the cars safer, should step it up again, stronger front bulkhead atleast... we dont need another herbert/schumi/zinardi acciedent

#7 Walsingham

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 20:25

Looked pretty scary. Did he suffer any concussion?

#8 smartie_f1

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 20:25

I was certain there'd be at least one broken leg. The accident looked similar to Schumacher at silverstone. Even the thumbs up, i thought was to stop fans worrying and not an indication of no injuries, but it seems he's a bit knocked around and concussed.

#9 tahadar

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 20:27

apparently he was out cold after the crash. in the autosport interview with Ron Dennis he said they couldnt communicate w/ him because he was unconscious.

#10 undersquare

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 20:33

Originally posted by tahadar
has anybody else noticed that the whole front bulkhead was completely destroyed, possibly more so than in the the Kubica crash? the entire steering rack assembly is also missing from the front of the car. my question is, even though heikki seems to have come off completely unscathed, should the front of the cars, in your opinion be stronger? i was alarmed last year when i saw kubica's feet sticking out; he would have had really bad injuries had there been another seconday impact to the front of the car.


The crash test is a perfect head-on, so that's what the teams develop for. If there's any angle involved like today and Kubi's impact then the structure can behave completely differently, for example being torn off instead of purely crushing.

So the next step in answer to your question would be to add an angled test.

#11 jesee

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 20:52

Originally posted by tahadar
has anybody else noticed that the whole front bulkhead was completely destroyed, possibly more so than in the the Kubica crash? the entire steering rack assembly is also missing from the front of the car. my question is, even though heikki seems to have come off completely unscathed, should the front of the cars, in your opinion be stronger? i was alarmed last year when i saw kubica's feet sticking out; he would have had really bad injuries had there been another seconday impact to the front of the car.


The principle is to let the vehicle absord as much energy as possible, while maintaining structural ridgidity of the monoqoque and therefore protect the driver. The parts are supposed to destruct thereby absorbing the energy. If they didnt those forces would be transferred to the driver.

#12 D A

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 21:07

I wonder if they could improve the energy absorption without exposing the drivers feet in an impact? If the feet are exposed and they have another hit it could lead to some serious injuries.

#13 jokuvaan

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 21:15

TS says that Heikki pulled his legs away from the front before the crash, he also removed hands from streering wheel. If he had not done those, he would not be racing in Turkey.

#14 D A

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 21:17

Originally posted by jokuvaan
TS says that Heikki pulled his legs away from the front before the crash, he also removed hands from streering wheel. If he had not done those, he would not be racing in Turkey.


Smart move, I wonder how he had time do it though, the crash happend so quick.

#15 wingwalker

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 21:30

In the video it is clearly visible he is letting the steering wheel go fractions before the impact.

#16 undersquare

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 21:39

Originally posted by jokuvaan
TS says that Heikki pulled his legs away from the front before the crash, he also removed hands from streering wheel. If he had not done those, he would not be racing in Turkey.


The deceleration was something like 100g so he wouldn't have been able to hold his legs away through the impact. Fortunately the 6-tyre thick tyre wall mainly did its job, even though the car went underneath it a bit.

#17 Clatter

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 21:43

Originally posted by jokuvaan
TS says that Heikki pulled his legs away from the front before the crash, he also removed hands from streering wheel. If he had not done those, he would not be racing in Turkey.


I very much doubt there is enough room in the cockpit to move his legs anywhere.

#18 manchild

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 21:44

Some of you are very wrong about feet position. Pedals are located 300mm behind the front axle and there's at least additional 100 mm up front. Also, Kubica's crash was much more dangerous and with more G force involved.

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#19 Dragonfly

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 21:50

I made a short clip of the crash at twice slower speed starting just before something broke on the front left end.
http://www.vbox7.com/play:ddaed1be

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#20 wingwalker

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 21:51

KR has feet more to the front, but he is tall.
edit: I meant RK.

Posted Image
Posted Image

#21 wingwalker

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 21:53

Originally posted by Dragonfly
I made a short clip of the crash at twice slower speed starting just before something broke on the front left end.
http://www.vbox7.com/play:ddaed1be


cool, do you have full speed version?

#22 jokuvaan

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 21:54

The deceleration was something like 100g


29 g

#23 Crazy Ninja

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 22:03

Originally posted by Clatter


I very much doubt there is enough room in the cockpit to move his legs anywhere.


Dunno bout this years car and if anything has changed in the cockpit, but last year at the nurburgring when hamilton crashed you could see him pushing his legs up and down a few inches so if the cockpit is similar im sure heikki could pull his legs up a couple inches

#24 Dragonfly

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 22:18

Originally posted by wingwalker


cool, do you have full speed version?

Yes, but it's not on my home PC. I can upload it tomorrow.

#25 Jackman

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 22:26

Originally posted by wingwalker
KR has feet more to the front, but he is tall.

No he doesn't, and no he's not.

#26 undersquare

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 22:30

Originally posted by jokuvaan

29 g


I was quoting Blundell :rotfl:

Still 29g is too much to resist. What's your source?

#27 wingwalker

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 22:33

Originally posted by Jackman
No he doesn't, and no he's not.


uh? I think he is the tallest of current F1 drivers, 184-5 cm. So he definitely has feet more to the front compared to folks who are often 15-20 shorter than him

Planet F1 pictures from the aftermath

#28 Crazy Ninja

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 22:37

Originally posted by undersquare


I was quoting Blundell :rotfl:

Still 29g is too much to resist. What's your source?


Yeah thats a bad idea :lol:

#29 Clatter

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 22:46

Originally posted by manchild
Some of you are very wrong about feet position. Pedals are located 300mm behind the front axle and there's at least additional 100 mm up front. Also, Kubica's crash was much more dangerous and with more G force involved.

Posted Image


From the Tech regs.
13.4.2 When he is seated normally, the soles of the driver's feet, resting on the pedals in the inoperative position, must not be situated forward of the front wheel centre line.

Where did you get the 300mm measurement from?

#30 Dragonfly

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 22:56

Originally posted by wingwalker
KR has feet more to the front, but he is tall.

No,
KR is short
RK is tall, in fact the tallest
:)

#31 Jackman

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 23:03

Originally posted by wingwalker
uh? I think he is the tallest of current F1 drivers, 184-5 cm.

He's well shorter than me, so you're out by a bit there.

#32 jb_128

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 23:20

Is 29 G official? Would have thought a lot more. And are there hi res pics of the car in the wall anywhere? I just can't get how he didn't suffer serious injuries by hitting the tyres with his head. Or didn't he go in far enough for that to happen?

#33 manchild

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 23:30

Well, the axle is almost in-line with the front end of the chassis, probably not more than 50mm or 100mm backwards. The regulations say that "13.4.1 The survival cell must extend from behind the fuel tank in a rearward direction to a point at least 300mm in front of the driver's feet, with his feet resting on the pedals and the pedals in the inoperative position." That's why I wrote that feet are 300mm behind front axle having in mind 13.4.1 and 13.4.2 combined.









#34 Bruce

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Posted 28 April 2008 - 00:34

Originally posted by Dragonfly

No,
KR is short
RK is tall, in fact the tallest
:)


Not to be pedantic, but I think Mark Webber is the tallest of these guys - he is listed as being 185 cm and Kubica at 184cm.

#35 BuonoBruttoCattivo

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Posted 28 April 2008 - 00:53

Originally posted by Bruce


Not to be pedantic...


too late!

After seeing this crash, which follows Kubika's in Montreal and Hams in Germany 2006, we must all at least admire Max Mosley's fervent, religious-even priority on SAFETY...Because not only F1 is cheating deaths, but now even injuries serious or not...amazing really. :up: :up: :up: :up:

#36 woftam

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Posted 28 April 2008 - 01:02

Originally posted by wingwalker


uh? I think he is the tallest of current F1 drivers, 184-5 cm. So he definitely has feet more to the front compared to folks who are often 15-20 shorter than him

Planet F1 pictures from the aftermath


I think you mean RK and not championship leader KR.
I think everyone knew that but some people are having a lend of you. ;)

#37 Bruce

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Posted 28 April 2008 - 01:03

Originally posted by BuonoBruttoCattivo


too late!


Sorry - typo - I meant to write "To be pedantic.... "


A waste really, as such pedantry needs no introduction.

#38 Lada Lover

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Posted 28 April 2008 - 01:27

Originally posted by BuonoBruttoCattivo


too late!

After seeing this crash, which follows Kubika's in Montreal and Hams in Germany 2006, we must all at least admire Max Mosley's fervent, religious-even priority on SAFETY...Because not only F1 is cheating deaths, but now even injuries serious or not...amazing really. :up: :up: :up: :up:


Yes but what about the hookers?

#39 Italiano Tifoso

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Posted 28 April 2008 - 01:48

Originally posted by Lada Lover


Yes but what about the hookers?


I'm not sure what contribution the hookers made in making F1 safe Lada. Maybe they just enabled Mosley to do his work with a 'clear head'?.

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#40 tahadar

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Posted 28 April 2008 - 01:54

Talk about legs sticking out :eek: :eek: :eek:
http://st.blog.cz/j/...zky/1413127.jpg

this is Frederico Kroymans in his ferrari F399 which apparently was the same chassis as the one that broke shumi's legs in 1999.

#41 kamix

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Posted 28 April 2008 - 05:00

Heikki's car held up nicely but how long was his car stuck under those tyres? Can you imagine if a car caught fire and lodged underneath a tyre wall like that ... ouch.

#42 Chiara

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Posted 28 April 2008 - 05:22

I'm quite surprised they are talking already about Turkey if Heikki lost conciousness with his concussion, I suppose we don't know how bad the concussion was, but it can take a few weeks or even months with a particularly bad concussion for things to settle down again in the brain. At a minimum doctors usually recommend at least a week with no physical activity...but then if there is risk of a repeated incident and second impact syndrome....they might recommend he doesn't race in Turkey to be on the safe side.

http://en.wikipedia....impact_syndrome

#43 K-One

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Posted 28 April 2008 - 06:01

26G's according to Autosport with 220 km/h, Kubi had something like over 70 G's, but the next race was within one week from his crash.
Kovi couldn't remember anything from the accident and first thing he asked was about Hamilton. Mclaren doctoc wasn't 100% confident of Heikki participating to Turkey. Marshals were really worried as they saw a lot of red on his helmet, but luckily that was colour from tyre barrier

#44 Arion

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Posted 28 April 2008 - 06:26

Originally posted by K-One
26G's according to Autosport with 220 km/h, Kubi had something like over 70 G's, but the next race was within one week from his crash.
Kovi couldn't remember anything from the accident and first thing he asked was about Hamilton. Mclaren doctoc wasn't 100% confident of Heikki participating to Turkey. Marshals were really worried as they saw a lot of red on his helmet, but luckily that was colour from tyre barrier


Couldn't remember anything? Sound like the concussion is quite bad. I hope he's not too shaken by the accident :|

#45 Oho

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Posted 28 April 2008 - 06:31

Perhaps racing drivers should have their brains suspended like woodpeckers...

#46 Joe Bosworth

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Posted 28 April 2008 - 06:45

From 160 km/hr it takes just a fraction over 1 meter to stop at 100 G.

If the report of 220 km/h and 26 G is accurate it would have taken 7.3 meters to come to a stop.

#47 Bex37

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Posted 28 April 2008 - 06:54

Originally posted by Oho
Perhaps racing drivers should have their brains suspended like woodpeckers...


A few of them drive like wood ducks. Does that count?

#48 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 28 April 2008 - 07:45

Originally posted by kamix
Heikki's car held up nicely but how long was his car stuck under those tyres? Can you imagine if a car caught fire and lodged underneath a tyre wall like that ... ouch.


He wouldnt have had a chance. Very lucky that F1 cars dont set aflick so easily these days.

#49 vaavu

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Posted 28 April 2008 - 07:49

Some of these pieces of information have already been covered here, but here is a translation from Turun Sanomat:

From Turun Sanomat
Heikki Kovalainen lead the race fifth time in his career for only eight turns. In the ninth turn, his left front tire exploded and the car was catapulted straight into the track barrier.

The collision buried the car under the tire barrier and cropped the nose and part of the cockpit. Kovalainen managed to spontaneously bend his knees inside the cockpit, which saved his ankles from damage. He also let go of the steering wheel at the very moment he noticed it does not turn the car.

The stewards were badly frightened when they arrived at the spot and saw Kovalainen's helmet being all over in red. However, the red colour was a transfer from the upper belt of the tire barrier; the purpose of the belt was to press down the barrier against the ground.

Kovalainen had a concussion and hurt his elbow. He was transferred from the track to Sant Cugar del Valles hospital with a helicopter. The head scan indicated that his head was OK. To be sure, Kovalainen stayed in the hospital under supervision for the night; McLaren doctor Aki Hintsa stayed with him over night.

The location of the accident is approached using sixth gear with velocity of 220kmph. The sudden stop was measured to involve 26 g force deceleration.



#50 Mika Mika

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Posted 28 April 2008 - 07:59

Get Well Seoon Heikki!!!

Bravo to McLaren for building a superbe safe car!!! :clap: :clap: :clap: