318 replies to this topic

[Kimi07WDC]

GERMAN FIRM WEIGL TO BAIL OUT SUPER AGURI

[lukywill]

ross is wearing those beautifull green pants.

for sure honda knows more.

aguri

[UPRC]

Excellent news! Source?

[noikeee]

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/67022

Who are these Weigl guys, and how credible are they?

[Clatter]

Hope it's true. I really don't want to see another team go to the wall.

[AFCA]

Franz Josef Weigl was indeed a Super Aguri guest in Barcelona but the Weigl Group has already denied they would be taking over the team saying ''there's nothing to it.''

[Kimi07WDC]

Originally posted by UPRC
Excellent news! Source?

Originally posted by paranoik0
http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/67022

good enough ??

[Craven Morehead]

hope its all good. they are a decent little team. and I enjoy Sato

[Orin]

I hope it's true. A year would give them enough time to sort out finances.

[IOU 16]

Originally posted by paranoik0
http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/67022

Who are these Weigl guys, and how credible are they?

http://www.autohaus-weigl.de/

Giant auto dealer group in Germany selling BMW's and Citroens.

[cathal]

Might be a nice investment, keep SA going untill a proper buyer can be got. Apparently there only gona pay 5.6 million GBP for the company, seems like nothing to me.

[StefanV]

The Honda connection seems odd now. New engines? Citroen?

[MOOT]

So are they going to build their own chassis any time soon?

[kNt]

http://www.weigl-gru...en.cfm?lang=eng

^ I think it's this company, they seem way to small to me to seriously found anything.

[Chiara]

Originally posted by AFCA
Franz Josef Weigl was indeed a Super Aguri guest in Barcelona but the Weigl Group has already denied they would be taking over the team saying ''there's nothing to it.''

http://en.f1-live.co...430095809.shtml

The German automotive engineering company Weigl Group has played down reports that it is behind an eleventh-hour rescue of the Super Aguri team.

Reports on Tuesday said the firm's Chief Executive Franz Josef Weigl visited the Spanish Grand Prix last weekend where he discussed financing the struggling Japanese team for at least the remainder of 2008.

Honda bankrolled Super Aguri's Barcelona action to the tune of two million Euros, but has ruled out offering any further race-by-race assistance to the cash-strapped team.

Some pundits, however, reacted with surprise to the Weigl reports, pointing out that the company had already been rejected recently by Honda as a possible takeover partner.

An official source at Weigl reacted by pointing out that while CEO Franz Josef Weigl was a Super Aguri guest at the Circuit de Catalunya, this does not mean the company is going to get involved with the team.

Weigl was previously involved in a technical partnership with the Midland team, involving the design and construction of a gearbox.

Source: GMM
© CAPSIS International

[IOU 16]

Originally posted by kNt
http://www.weigl-gru...en.cfm?lang=eng

^ I think it's this company, they seem way to small to me to seriously found anything.

That actually sounds more right. Engineering firm to large auto dealership chain. Hmmm... maybe for GP2 or WSR, a dealership group might work.

Google not always works.

[Risil]

In a couple of months the budget capping proposals will be sorted (and Max might be gone) - by then F1 will be far more attractive for long-term investors, customer cars or no.

[stevewf1]

Sorry, but this F1 fan misses the days when a Roger Penske could buy a McLaren, enter Mark Donohue at the 1971 Mosport GP and finish 3rd.

I think F1 has become way too much of an "investment" instead of a "sport"...

[David M. Kane]

Stevewf1:

How true, how right you are. I was at the next race at Watkins Glen, the M19 sure looked nice in Sunoco Blue.

[gocraig!]

this news has been around for a few weeks. nick todts site revealled it after bahrain. they now have an update on it.

http://f1.automoto36...m&news_id=30970

[clipper]

Originally posted by gocraig!
this news has been around for a few weeks. nick todts site revealled it after bahrain. they now have an update on it.

http://f1.automoto36...m&news_id=30970

If thats accurate, bloody Nick Fry! how the hell does he still have a job!

[mach4]

Burti said on the Brazilian TV coverage of the Spanish GP that Ross Brawn was basically responsible for shutting down Super Aguri... apparently his position was that Honda couldn't afford to waste any resources on another team

[glorius&victorius]

Originally posted by paranoik0
http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/67022

Who are these Weigl guys, and how credible are they?

indeed, lets first see Aguri get through the next three races without any destabilizing rumours.

But if true, then

[Andrew Ford &F1]

I keep my fingers crossed for Super Aguri. Not beacuase I'm from Japan and not beacuse I'm a Honda supporter. I hope that the Leafield-based team will survive, because I'm an F1 fan to the bone and I want to see as many as 24 cars on the grid, and definitely not fewer than 22.

[AFCA]

Originally posted by Andrew, Ford &F1
I want to see as many as 24 cars on the grid, and definitely not fewer than 22.

And that's also why Ecclestone is being involved in the negotiations so much and perhaps even financing the team with his on money.

The agreement made by FOM with the (Grand Prix) organisors and tv companies says there should be a fully lined up grid, that is to say: 22 cars. In case Super Aguri goes bankrupt ('only' loosing two cars) the revenues of selling the tv rights go down drastically, we're talking even more money here than is necessary to keep Super Aguri alive.

[Andrew Ford &F1]

Originally posted by AFCA


And that's also why Ecclestone is being involved in the negotiations so much and perhaps even financing the team with his on money.

The agreement made by FOM with the (Grand Prix) organisors and tv companies says there should be a fully lined up grid, that is to say: 22 cars. In case Super Aguri goes bankrupt ('only' loosing two cars) the revenues of selling the tv rights go down drastically, we're talking even more money here than is necessary to keep Super Aguri alive.

Good news then. Bernie will not let SA die, as the "funeral" will cost him more than the life-support.

[Gareth]

Originally posted by AFCA


And that's also why Ecclestone is being involved in the negotiations so much and perhaps even financing the team with his on money.

The agreement made by FOM with the (Grand Prix) organisors and tv companies says there should be a fully lined up grid, that is to say: 22 cars. In case Super Aguri goes bankrupt ('only' loosing two cars) the revenues of selling the tv rights go down drastically, we're talking even more money here than is necessary to keep Super Aguri alive.

I thought the magic number for Bernie was 20 cars on the grid - so if it dips below 20, he loses a lot of cash.

Bernie's concerned about SA going because it takes him a step closer to dropping below the magic 20, especially with Torro Rosso looking a tad shaky. But as it doesn't actually take him below 20, so I don't think he'll fork out any of his own cash to keep them afloat.

[Melbourne Park]

Originally posted by Gareth
... so I don't think he'll fork out any of his own cash to keep them afloat.

A small point: its already been talked about in the Press that Bernie assisted SA getting to Barcelona.

However various amounts of cash assistance is not the same as buying the team.

I am not sure about the 20 cut off you speak about - do you have a link for that?

[MichaelJP]

I'm sure Bernie would help out short-term if SA look close to a deal, but wouldn't have thought he would do much more than that.

They have to change the rules about customer cars, with a global economic slow-down it will be very hard to keep a full competitive grid. Even now I find it hard to understand how multinational boards can justify the huge expenditures to stay in F1 when the best they can hope for is an embarrassing mid-field result.

[scousepenguin]

Fingels clossed fol Supel Aguli!

Samulai walliols.

Comedy lisping aside, I really like them and hope it works out.

[Gareth]

Originally posted by Melbourne Park
A small point: its already been talked about in the Press that Bernie assisted SA getting to Barcelona.

However various amounts of cash assistance is not the same as buying the team.

I am not sure about the 20 cut off you speak about - do you have a link for that?

I believe it's a Concorde Agreement/agreement between the race promoters anf FOM thing - i.e FOM guarantee to the promoters under their contract that the races will consist of 20 cars minimum, if they fail to do that FOM owes the promoters money, to cover itself from this FOM have made it a term of the Concorde Agreement that the teams agree to put forward a minimum field of 20 cars so, if they fall below 20, teams are obliged to run a third non points paying car (team decided by ballot).

This is why the '05 US GP had the farce of a parade lap - to ensure there had technically been a 20 car start, so FOM didn't breach its contract with the USGP and the teams didn't breach Concorde.

This all really comes from memory picked up from various sources over the years. The best thing I can point to quickly is this site on the Concorde Agreement and in particular this quote from Stoddart (although he ain't the most reliable of guys!) :

When we lost Prost, we had twelve teams and then we had eleven, then we lost Arrows we now had ten teams. Were we to go below ten teams, we'd breach all kinds of regulations within the Concorde Agreement, the governing document of F1. In doing so, we would expose ourselves, if we fall below twenty cars, to the need, and it is quite clearly described in Concorde, to run non-points scoring third cars, and the way it would happen is as follows: Or one - either way. If it's one, then the FIA ballots two of the remaining competitors to put two non-points scoring, non-podium or press conference participating cars into the field. If it had been two of us it would be four ballots, four cars would come out.

[Melbourne Park]

Originally posted by Gareth
I believe it's a Concorde Agreement/agreement between the race promoters anf FOM thing - i.e FOM guarantee to the promoters under their contract that the races will consist of 20 cars minimum, if they fail to do that FOM owes the promoters money, to cover itself from this FOM have made it a term of the Concorde Agreement that the teams agree to put forward a minimum field of 20 cars so, if they fall below 20, teams are obliged to run a third non points paying car (team decided by ballot).

This is why the '05 US GP had the farce of a parade lap - to ensure there had technically been a 20 car start, so FOM didn't breach its contract with the USGP and the teams didn't breach Concorde.

This all really comes from memory picked up from various sources over the years. The best thing I can point to quickly is this site on the Concorde Agreement and in particular this quote from Stoddart (although he ain't the most reliable of guys!) :

Thanks Gareth. However I think the Concorde Agreement no longer applies. So much for transparency, its not easy to find basic information is it? I appreciate your efforts.

You may not like Stoddart, but he says what he thinks and rarely pulls any punches. There is always two sides to a story though.

[MichaelJP]

Originally posted by Melbourne Park

Thanks Gareth. However I think the Concorde Agreement no longer applies. So much for transparency, its not easy to find basic information is it?

Absolutely - F1 is masked in secrecy. For example, how much is the prize money?

[Gareth]

Originally posted by Melbourne Park
Thanks Gareth. However I think the Concorde Agreement no longer applies. So much for transparency, its not easy to find basic information is it? I appreciate your efforts.

Concorde may no longer apply but the agreements between FOM and the promoters do. They always carried clauses guaranteeing a 20 car field in the past (see Stoddy quote, Indy fiasco) and I suspect they still carry them.

Originally posted by Melbourne Park
You may not like Stoddart, but he says what he thinks and rarely pulls any punches. There is always two sides to a story though.

I lost a lot of respect for Stoddy over the: "if we don't get the consent of all the other teams to race in last year's configuration, we cannot race" ... two days later they race; fiasco. But that's a subject for another thread.

[Melbourne Park]

Originally posted by Gareth

Concorde may no longer apply but the agreements between FOM and the promoters do. They always carried clauses guaranteeing a 20 car field in the past (see Stoddy quote, Indy fiasco) and I suspect they still carry them.

I lost a lot of respect for Stoddy over the: "if we don't get the consent of all the other teams to race in last year's configuration, we cannot race" ... two days later they race; fiasco. But that's a subject for another thread.

Yeh ... but if you push someone into a corner, they are going to fight aren't they? A bit like Max is at the moment.

[Chiara]

http://en.f1-live.co...502101557.shtml

Spaniards back in frame for Aguri rescue
Ongoing speculation and rumour regarding Super Aguri
02/05/08 10:15

Spaniards Alejandro Agag and Adrian Campos have returned to the frame of potential Formula One team ownership as Super Aguri fights for survival ahead of the Turkish Grand Prix.

The Leafield-based outfit faces not only a race to find the couple of million Euros necessary to compete at Istanbul Park, but also a race against the clock to retrieve its cars from supplier team Honda's Brackley base and dispatch them across Europe.

Although there were one or two exceptions, such as Renault, most F1 teams headed from Barcelona directly to the Italian port city of Trieste, where their cars will be boarded on a ferry to cross the Adriatic Sea bound for Turkey.

Aguri's unexplained UK detour means that the team must now imminently depart if it is to be stationed in the Istanbul garages for the start of free practice next Friday.

It is understood that the Dubai-funded Magma Group buyout is now completely lifeless, while Honda is not keen on the recently reported Weigl Group alternative because the German automotive company is only proposing an initial short-term rescue package rather than a full buyout.

Super Aguri boss Aguri Suzuki earlier this year engaged in detailed negotiations with Agag and Campos, co-owners of a GP2 team, about the sale of the Honda-supplied squad.

The Swiss publication Motorsport Aktuell reports that the Agag-Campos solution may again be on the table.

It is suggested that the Spanish companies Telefonica and Repsol are keen to get behind the idea of a Spanish Formula One team.

Source: GMM
© CAPSIS International

[prxty]

But it was supposed that Aguri already sold some stakes (50%?) to Agag and Campos at the beginning of the year.

http://www.grandprix...e_to_Agag.shtml

They need to make public their finances if they want to have some credibility. They are on the verge of disappearing very quickly.

[Melbourne Park]

its not just about paying out Honda IMO. With the dual team concept extinct - which was why RBR and Honda bought other teams - now Honda want to focus totally on their own car. And whoever takes over Super Aguri, might have to finance the R&D of a KERS system as well, which seems by all reports to be a very expensive endeavor. Mercedes Haug was saying that it is a very expensive development, and that Mercedes engine operation in Braxworth (I think that is the spelling) had the support of their Stuttgart R&D area. Without Honda providing that R&D, they'd have to get it from another engine and KERS supplier IMO, otherwise the funding requirement would go up a lot.

[gocraig!]

havent u guys seen this ?

Aguri and Weigl confirm takeover talks

http://f1.automoto36...m&news_id=30989

[Timstr11]

Originally posted by kNt
http://www.weigl-gru...en.cfm?lang=eng

^ I think it's this company, they seem way to small to me to seriously found anything.

Correct.
They have been involved in F1 though. Via the former Midland F1 team, co-designing the transmission Midland-Spyker-Force India is currently running:
http://www.f1technical.net/news/1474

[Timstr11]

Interesting interview with Franz Josef Weigl: http://www.motorspor...ID=287854&FS=F1

A deal breaker could be how fast they pay the debt Super Aguri owes to Honda.
I read somewhere else the figure is around U$ 100 000 000.

[Dudley]

Originally posted by prxty
But it was supposed that Aguri already sold some stakes (50%?) to Agag and Campos at the beginning of the year.

http://www.grandprix...e_to_Agag.shtml

They need to make public their finances if they want to have some credibility. They are on the verge of disappearing very quickly.

That never happened, a few sites made stuff up because they were bored.

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/64875

http://www.autosport...ne.php/id/64773

[Chiara]

What's this all about then?

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/67142

[SevenTwoSeven]

I was just reading that. Seems what Nick Fry says goes

Does Nick Fry speak on behalf of honda, for honda, or what he wants honda to say?

[kar]

Originally posted by SevenTwoSeven
I was just reading that. Seems what Nick Fry says goes

Does Nick Fry speak on behalf of honda, for honda, or what he wants honda to say?

I think he speaks for the racing team which are still embarrassed at being outperformed last year while he was the boss.

He's certainly doing a great job at damaging any positive PR Honda have gained supporting Super Aguri. In a long line of incompetencies he's doing his best to make his team look like callous bastards.

[zarooch]

seems like he's the one (Nick Fry) who is calling the shots! IIRC Bernie owns the track, doesn't he? so Super Aguri THE END OF STORY.

I would have liked them to at least complete the season.

[SevenTwoSeven]

That being the case,i still find this excerpt very odd from the autosport article....

When asked for an explanation from officials about why they were not allowed access to the paddock, sources claim the reason was that Honda Racing CEO Nick Fry had informed Formula One management that Super Aguri would not be racing in Turkey.

Why didnt they ask Super Aguri or even Honda?

[Timstr11]

Originally posted by kar
I think he speaks for the racing team which are still embarrassed at being outperformed last year while he was the boss

Get serious Kar.

Originally posted by kar
He's certainly doing a great job at damaging any positive PR Honda have gained supporting Super Aguri. In a long line of incompetencies he's doing his best to make his team look like callous bastards.

Surely Fry is speaking on behalf of Honda, the mother company...
As has been stated in the autosport.com article, Honda has poured a lot more money into Super Aguri than was ever intended. They should have been a self supporting team by now. Unfortunately this did not happen and Honda do not wish to continue bailing Super Aguri out (rumour is that Aguri owes Honda U$ 100 mil.).

Apparently the reason the deal with Magma was not accepted by Honda was because they would not commit to paying the debt to Honda in shorter time span. The proposal from Weigl is not any better in that respect, hence we should not expect Honda to accept the deal tabled by Weigl.

[i.am.cloned]

Originally posted by Timstr11
Honda has poured a lot more money into Super Aguri than was ever intended. Honda do not wish to continue bailing Super Aguri out (rumour is that Aguri owes Honda U$ 100 mil.).

I still don't see why it would be better for Honda if Agury goes bankrupt rather sooner than later. If they don't want to give them more money - it's ok, they can stop any moment can't they? Why making them sink deeper and faster with all this bad PR from Fry? And not allowing access to paddock is ridiciulos - how could that improve Honda's chances to get their 100 mil back?

[Dudley]

What the ****?

Why didn't Ron Dennis think of this, he should have told the track that Ferrari won't be racing and then they wouldn't be let in.