46 replies to this topic

[5000gt]

I will try this.Knutstorp Ring 1992.Anyone got any photos? I have a couple,coming soon.

[D-Type]

Read the sticky 'How to post images'. It explains that to post an image here it must first be put somewhere else on the web. I don't understand it, but the instructions are in there somewhere between various attempts.

[5000gt]

I

[Alan Cox]

It looks like Robin Lodge in his Maserati to me - Is that correct?

[5000gt]

One more.[IMG]http://img134.images...mg085el9.th.jpg[/IMG]

[5000gt]

Originally posted by Alan Cox
It looks like Robin Lodge in his Maserati to me - Is that correct?

If he raced a 4CM i think its him.The only prewar Maserati we had in Sweden was owned bye late Gunnar Elmgren in 1992.I always thought thats the reason this Maserati turned up in Sweden.

[David McKinney]

Robin Lodge had a 6CM - more than one actually.
He was good friends with Gunnar Elmgren.
I agree with Alan that it looks like Lodge in the photo

[5000gt]

One more.http://[IMG]http://img99.imagesh...mg087yx1.th.jpg[/IMG]

[Adam F]

David and Alan, I agree it looks like Robin Lodge in 6CM 1531.
By my reckoning, he at one time or another has owned at least four 6CMs

[5000gt]

It was a European historic race. I think it was a FIA race.This is the cars Elva 200 from GB,TVR Griffith from GB,AC Cobra mk3 GB and a couple of formula cars from Italy bt6 bt6 22 Wainer.One swedish driver drove an EBA.And 4 Lotus Elite 2 from S, 1 from D and 1 dutch driver.

[Tomas Karlsson]

Gunnar Elmgren in his Maserati 6CM-1537 at Mariestad in 1992.

[5000gt]

Nice photo Tomas.Have you take it? I met him on Knutstorp Ring the same year Robin Lodge drove his Maserati. It was one week after Denmark won the European cup in Fotboll.

Med vänliga hälsningar Magnus

[5000gt]

Do anyone know when 1537 first came to Sweden. I know that it has been in GB for a renovation in the 1978.
I will look for an article in our swedish automobileclub AHKs paper Autohistorica.I will be back soon or not i have a lot of Autohistorica.I hope i find the number with the register.
Magnus.

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by 5000gt
Do anyone know when 1537 first came to Sweden

1947
I believe it's now living in Germany

[5000gt]

Thanks David

Magnus

[pingst]

Originally posted by 5000gt
Thanks David

Magnus

In the Swedish magazine "Bilvarlden" from 1988 You can find a lot of information about the Maserati 6CM 1537. The car come to Sweden 1947. A lot of different drivers used the car. Some of them changed the motor, some changed the gearbox and at last the car get a front of Morris Minor. At last the car was saved and the new owner search for parts to the car both in Sweden and other country in order to rebuilt the car to its origin.

The article in the magazine was written by Gunnar Elmgren who owned the car 1988. I think that is a guarentee for a wellresearched article. If anyone are intrested in the car contact me for a copy of the article.

I also have a question if anbody know were the car is today.

[Tomas Karlsson]

Well, there weren't that many who raced the Maserati, during its active years in Sweden (1947-53). In fact it was only Valdemar Stener and his mechanic Rune Bertilsson. Stener bought the car in October '47 but he did very few races with it in it's original form. From 1950 there were no races for it in Scandinavia. But a rebuild in 1952 by Gustav Nobelius made it into a Nordic Special. It got a Ford V8 with Ardun heads, a new body... and a Morris Minor front. In this form it was raced by Stener and Bertilsson during 52-53. Bertilsson wasn't impressed by Nobelius work and threw away the Morris grille after the first race...

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by pingst
I also have a question if anbody know were the car is today.

I think it is still with Josef Otto Rettenmaier in Germany

[Red Socks]

Gunnar and Robin jointly owned a Maserati 4CM and a Maserati 250F at this time. Later they untangled the deal and Gunnar took the 250F and Robin the 4CM.
In the context of the picture it really could be either.

[Jonas]

The car Robin Lodge raced at Knutstorp 1992 was indeed a 4CM, not a 6CM. I remember it well..

[David McKinney]

It was actually built as a 6CM, but had a 4C engine ;)

[fines]

Meaning, it was a 4CMS?

[David McKinney]

No, it wasn't a sportscar
It started as a 6CM, but at the time in question was a 4CM

[Dutchy]

It's car that was raced for many years by Paul Colborne in VSCC events. It was a very quick car having a late spec. 4CM engine.
Robin Lodge did have several 6CMs over the years but the car depicted is not one of them as others have pointed out.

[fines]

Originally posted by David McKinney
No, it wasn't a sportscar

Nononono, not a 4 CS - 4CMS, as in quattro cilindri monoposto speciale! There were only very few built, four I believe, in 1937 or '38, and they've given me headaches some years ago trying to identify. Sheldon, for one, usually lists them as 6CM chassis with 4C-1500 engines, but iirc he's got them misidentified a lot. Hardly my special interest atm, but I thought I'd butt in...

[Adam F]

Originally posted by fines

Nononono, not a 4 CS - 4CMS, as in quattro cilindri monoposto speciale! There were only very few built, four I believe, in 1937 or '38, and they've given me headaches some years ago trying to identify.

I have never heard of this before. What sources mention such a "4CMS"?

Either way, the car raced by Colborne and Lodge started out as a normal 6C-engined 6C in 1936 and was fitted with a 4C engine in ealy 1937. As far as I know it has kept a 4C engine throughout the rest of its life.
For the avoidance of doubt, this is the car pictured in the original post by 5000gt.

[fines]

Venables Racing Fifteenhundreds, Nye History of the Grand Prix Car, from memory. Perhaps more.

I understand by now the car was a 'regular' 6CM, fitted with a 4C engine later on. 1936 is too early for the CMS, and the quoted chassis number seemed too early, too.

[coco]

Originally posted by fines

Nononono, not a 4 CS - 4CMS, as in quattro cilindri monoposto speciale! There were only very few built, four I believe, in 1937 or '38, and they've given me headaches some years ago trying to identify. Sheldon, for one, usually lists them as 6CM chassis with 4C-1500 engines, but iirc he's got them misidentified a lot. Hardly my special interest atm, but I thought I'd butt in...

The car in question is 6CM #1543 but fitted with a 4-cyl.-engine. Robin had the car for some years and had it restored. It is now owned by an Italian.
I have copies of the original Italian registration from 1937.

Ciao!
Walter

[David McKinney]

No, Walter
The car all the discussion is about is 1537
1543 certainly was owned by Robin Lodge at one time, but I have never heard of it ever getting a 4C engine

[Adam F]

Originally posted by David McKinney
No, Walter
The car all the discussion is about is 1537
1543 certainly was owned by Robin Lodge at one time, but I have never heard of it ever getting a 4C engine

Yes, David - the original photo posted was of 6CM 1531, and the car discussed in most of the thread is 6CM 1537.

Re. the so-called "4CMS" mentioned, two 4CMs were built in 1937, and three to a slightly later spec in 1938.
All of these cars were run by private owners, unlike 6CM 1531 which was raced by the Maserati works team.

[coco]

Originally posted by David McKinney
No, Walter
The car all the discussion is about is 1537
1543 certainly was owned by Robin Lodge at one time, but I have never heard of it ever getting a 4C engine

No, David
#1543 had and still had a 4-cy.-engine installed! I saw the car 3 or 4 times thru the last 4 years and have photos of it with the 4CM-engine fitted!

Ciao!
Walter

[David McKinney]

Not the 1543 I saw ;)

[GIGLEUX]

Originally posted by fines
Venables Racing Fifteenhundreds, Nye History of the Grand Prix Car, from memory. Perhaps more

Nothing such in Venables, Orsini-Zagari, Tabucchi, Crump-de la Rive Box or Pritchard. Page 247 of History of the Grand Prix car: "Four of these 4CM speciali were produced during 1937...". As "speciali" is writen in italics we can think it is an addentum bye Doug to show they were different from the older 4CMs.

To add a little more, nothing in the official files of the factory established in 1968 by Sign.Cozza.

[Adam F]

Originally posted by coco
#1543 had and still had a 4-cy.-engine installed!

6CM 1543 had a 6C engine when raced in period, and a 6C engine when auctioned by Brooks in 1990 and also when auctioned by Coys in 1994........
I also believe this was the car raced by Rick Hall at the 2006 Goodwood Revival, again with a 6C fitted.

[Tomas Karlsson]

This thread has turned into something very strange....

Let's get back to where we started!

Erik Berger, nine and a half time Swedish champion in Ford Cortinas and Escorts in the sixties and seventies. He is racing again together with his son. And he is still winning at 80+!!

[5000gt]

What was the chassies number of the first Maserati on my thread?1531 or 1543?

[Dutchy]

1531

[vintagecon]

Some pictures of Gunnar Elmgren in his 6CM no 1537 from a race at Karlskoga in 1989.






Also a pic from the same weekend of a De Cadenet Lola T380, I believe its Eje Elgh testdriving the Lola and it was the first time since Le Mans -79 this car turned its wheels.

[5000gt]

Thank you nice photos.I have not post any more photos its too complicated.I forgot how to do it. Did you take the photos vintagecon?

[onelung]

Wasn't there a SAAB based Formula Junior car at one stage - ?
Surely someone must have a shot of one such which would be pertinent to this thread .. ?

[Tomas Karlsson]

The Saab FJunior. Not in historic racing, but at an exhibition run through the streets of Mariestad in 1992. Erik Carlsson at the wheel.

[onelung]

Thanks Tomas - I've obviously misinterpreted the narrower meaning of "historic racing".
I imagine the SAAB would have sounded great when "on song"......

[vintagecon]

Two more pics showing Elmgrens Maserati shot at Karlskoga -89






And another pic also from Karlskoga but this time in 1983 with a great mix of cars. In the lead is what I believe Lasse Jönsson in a Porsche 907 Spyder? followed by Robert Anderssons genuine 427 Cobra (later he moved to US with this car in luggage and he still drives vintage races in it) and a Chevron B8, Ferrari Daytona and Lotus 23.



Perhaps somone has better details of these cars, who drove them at that time and where are they nowadays? still in Sweden?

/Conny

[5000gt]

Thanks Conny i think the Daytona is Jon Fasts.He drove Osca in 1957 and 1958.I think the Porsche is still with Jönsson and Cobra you know. The Lotus could be Bergqvists.

Ciao!

Magnus

[5000gt]

I have too correct my self Anders Jansson drove this Daytona.The b8 is that Gunnar Brismans?Ihave a photo then his car was red.

Ciao!
Magnus

[biz5300]

I can confirm 907 Posrsche as still with Lasse Jönsson..

[Harvc]

No, it wasn't a sportscar
It started as a 6CM, but at the time in question was a 4CM

Hi, I'm probably a bit late to this thread but, in case anyone is still receiving emails from it; Maserati 6CM 1531 was owned and raced by my father Paul Colborne between 1980 & 1989 at the VSCC events. It did start life as a 6CM but was fitted with a 4CM shortly after and still had that config when we got it. We later bought a 6CM engine and tried that over a couple of seasons but went back to the now rebuilt 4CM as we had a lot more luck in it.
The old man sold it after one of the Silverstone events in '89 when one of the pistons caught the sleeve, left the block into the glass fuel filter bowl and basically fried the car and him in pressurised Methanol mix. Burning, as it does, virtually invisibly to the marshalls. He managed to hop out, return and cut the fuel but then, decided to sell it. It was in quite a state.
Great times, great memories, great car. Would love some of those pics if anyone can send to me?

Paul Harvey Colborne

Edited by Harvc, 18 February 2011 - 14:21.