Jump to content


Photo

I hate people, Brands Hatch forced to keep quiet...


  • Please log in to reply
99 replies to this topic

#1 Dudley

Dudley
  • Member

  • 9,245 posts
  • Joined: March 00

Posted 04 May 2008 - 19:56

http://news.bbc.co.u...ent/7377543.stm

Brands Hatch has signed a deal to reduce noise and disturbances at its events.

Owners of the race track in Longfield, Kent, drew up the deal with Sevenoaks District Council, after listening to proposals from residents groups.

The voluntary agreement sets out days and times of operation, noise limits, as well as a code of practice for tannoy use and aircraft flightpaths.

A special phone line and email address has been set up for complaints.


They can just **** off. The tracks been there 50 years. Don't tell me they didn't notice it when they bought the house.

Put up with it or move. I've already been to one meeting at BH that ran slightly late so a 40 minute historic GT race was reduced to a 3 lap parade, presumably this new agreement is even more pathetic.

Advertisement

#2 SeanValen

SeanValen
  • Member

  • 16,933 posts
  • Joined: February 01

Posted 04 May 2008 - 20:13

I agree

Just not everyone living there loves motorsport. And since Brandshatch hasn't hosted f1 in ages, and Silverstone is used for it, not everyone is interested in Brandshatch as they used too. The new generation of f1 fans just know Silverstone.

#3 potmotr

potmotr
  • Member

  • 9,999 posts
  • Joined: January 08

Posted 04 May 2008 - 20:18

That's progress I'm afraid. As big cities like London sprawl developers look for more and more land. If you see an overhead shot of Brands it has houses sitting on its boundary fence.

#4 MichaelPM

MichaelPM
  • Member

  • 2,587 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 04 May 2008 - 20:21

Whats the email address? I wanna complain about them letting the residents push them around like that!

Sure axe any kind of aircraft stuff but add more roaring on the track :D

#5 Dolph

Dolph
  • Member

  • 4,572 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 04 May 2008 - 20:41

Didn't they want to build housing complexes near 100 m from the Silverstone track? Guess whose gonna be complaining about what in 10 years!! Didn't notice the bigass racetrack with formula one cars flying around when you bought the flat, now did you!?

#6 pingu666

pingu666
  • Member

  • 8,626 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 04 May 2008 - 20:48

probably limits the running of the grand prix circuit even more :cry:

#7 F575 GTC

F575 GTC
  • Member

  • 920 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 04 May 2008 - 20:53

Team LNT pulled out of the British GT in 2005 because when they got to Castle Combe the TVR's where judged to be too loud for the locals. That was also the catalyst for Combe losing the F3/GT package in full.

Brands also lost the Belcar or Dutch Supercar Challenge, i forget which. It visited in 2005 i think, but was deemed too loud and subsequently not invited anymore. The Ferrari F360's in the British GT Championship also had to run extra exhausts to quieten them down at one track... :down: Tossers.

#8 Torch

Torch
  • Member

  • 252 posts
  • Joined: December 07

Posted 04 May 2008 - 22:11

Yep, a joke.

And we have a massive cements works expanding near my house, making more noise and billowing out more pollution,k but that's absolutly fine. Oh yeah, forgot.... the council don't get much of an 'incentive' from Brands.

Hope they don't change their noise limits for track days - they used to be one of the most relaxed circuits for noise limits :|

#9 Chiara

Chiara
  • Member

  • 1,847 posts
  • Joined: December 06

Posted 04 May 2008 - 22:30

Unfortunately it would seem these kind of complaints are becoming more common - but I agree you must know what your letting yourself in for if you buy a house next to a race track in the first place! and it's not like racing action takes place at unreasonable hours of the night!

Monza has had in recent years similar problems with a minority of families living in the vicinity who are opposed to the noise and have tried to prevent GP going ahead :rolleyes: and even some test tracks have had it, Elvington Airfield in Yorkshire England is currently I believe being taken through the courts and prevented from having F1 straight line testing there because of a small number of local residents.

If you want tranquility - buy a farm in the middle of nowhere :p

#10 tahadar

tahadar
  • Member

  • 499 posts
  • Joined: February 08

Posted 04 May 2008 - 22:30

im one of the 'new' generation of F1 / motorsport fans and this just makes me depressed :(

#11 Dudley

Dudley
  • Member

  • 9,245 posts
  • Joined: March 00

Posted 04 May 2008 - 23:25

Originally posted by potmotr
That's progress I'm afraid. As big cities like London sprawl developers look for more and more land. If you see an overhead shot of Brands it has houses sitting on its boundary fence.


Which is fair enough, but the track was there first, you buy the house with the knowledge of what's surrounding it.

It's like moving to London and demanding an acre in all directions be demolished because you don't like cars.

Unfortunately it would seem these kind of complaints are becoming more common - but I agree you must know what your letting yourself in for if you buy a house next to a race track in the first place!


And this is the key, if they build a track next to you, get restrictions. If you move next to a track that's been there 50 years... tough.

#12 mclarensmps

mclarensmps
  • Member

  • 3,746 posts
  • Joined: February 02

Posted 04 May 2008 - 23:44

That's terrible :(. The first motor race I ever went to see was at brands. Fond memories...

#13 travbrad

travbrad
  • Member

  • 570 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 05 May 2008 - 03:03

Bad news indeed. It's a great track, I wish they'd bring it back for F1 (although it's probably not up to modern F1 safety standards), it's a lot better than Silverstone for sure.

If you move into a house near something loud (such as an airport, train tracks, or race track) what do you expect? I guess stupidity has a legal basis now. Maybe I should move near an airport and demand they stop flying airplanes all the time...

If it was a new track I could understand, but it's been around so long that I doubt anyone living near it lived there before the track was built.

#14 Vunz

Vunz
  • Member

  • 2,201 posts
  • Joined: October 00

Posted 05 May 2008 - 07:05

Originally posted by travbrad
If you move into a house near something loud (such as an airport, train tracks, or race track) what do you expect? I guess stupidity has a legal basis now. Maybe I should move near an airport and demand they stop flying airplanes all the time...


Which is exactly what all airports and all race tracks in the Netherlands have to face. People move next to it and then start complaining. What they don't seem to realise is that these so called 'noise polluters' give a tremendous economical boost. ****ing nimby's... :rolleyes:

#15 F575 GTC

F575 GTC
  • Member

  • 920 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 05 May 2008 - 09:33

Originally posted by Vunz


Which is exactly what all airports and all race tracks in the Netherlands have to face. People move next to it and then start complaining. What they don't seem to realise is that these so called 'noise polluters' give a tremendous economical boost. ****ing nimby's... :rolleyes:


Yep :up: And you can also put money on the fact that the very people who hate the noise...will be using the place to go on holiday in the summer :)

#16 SevenTwoSeven

SevenTwoSeven
  • Member

  • 368 posts
  • Joined: March 08

Posted 05 May 2008 - 09:39

I guess these are the same people who protest against wind farms being built 50 miles from the coast out at sea or wherever it is they want to build them?

#17 F1Fanatic.co.uk

F1Fanatic.co.uk
  • Member

  • 1,725 posts
  • Joined: May 05

Posted 05 May 2008 - 09:40

This is just disgusting and it's becoming a serious threat to motor racing in Great Britain. I am concerned that something similar will happen at Silverstone and other circuits.

#18 FrankB

FrankB
  • Member

  • 2,599 posts
  • Joined: December 01

Posted 05 May 2008 - 09:44

Originally posted by travbrad
If you move into a house near something loud (such as an airport, train tracks, or race track) what do you expect? I guess stupidity has a legal basis now. Maybe I should move near an airport and demand they stop flying airplanes all the time...


I used to live in Lincolnshire near a military airfield that has been in continuous use since 1918. There is a village about 1.5 / 2 miles away, under the approach path. I should think when the airfield first came into use the village consisted of a church, a pub and perhaps 20 houses and not much more. Since then, and particularly since WWII when there have been predominantly jet aircraft using the airfield, the village has expanded dramatically, with perhaps 200 - 300 houses. There may be some residents whose families have been there for generations, but well over 90% of the families MUST have moved there after the airfield was built. In spite of their relatively late arrival, there are frequent complaints about aircraft noise.

#19 F575 GTC

F575 GTC
  • Member

  • 920 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 05 May 2008 - 09:45

Originally posted by F1Fanatic.co.uk
This is just disgusting and it's becoming a serious threat to motor racing in Great Britain. I am concerned that something similar will happen at Silverstone and other circuits.


Donington might be a push as it's got the Airport right next to it too - can't really complain about noise from the track when you've got East Midlands there. Saying that, they do run noise-limited trackdays.

Mallory might eventually get it, that's right at the very end of the village, and if i can hear the races from about three miles away, i'm sure those who live in the village can! :lol: They get free tickets for the entire season though...

Advertisement

#20 FrankB

FrankB
  • Member

  • 2,599 posts
  • Joined: December 01

Posted 05 May 2008 - 09:49

Originally posted by F575 GTC


Yep :up: And you can also put money on the fact that the very people who hate the noise...will be using the place to go on holiday in the summer :)


It always makes me smile when estate agents describe a house as being "convenient for the motorway" rather than "so close to the motorway that triple glazing is essential (but not yet installed)"

#21 Muz Bee

Muz Bee
  • Member

  • 2,531 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 05 May 2008 - 10:14

NIMBYs have a lot to answer for. They will object to wind farms being built on the adjacent hills to their cosy "lifestyle" property and use noise as an excuse! It's true, it's happening here in New Zealand. NZ's newest track being developed out in the country faced strenuous objections and posturing from the government's '"corrections" (prison) department. So a bloody racetrack was incompatible with a prison down the road??? The ****ing world has gone mad! :confused:

Brands Hatch is Britain's most iconic racetrack and is actually exciting TV venue not like that dismal flat airfield thing they spend all the money on. Can a heritage status be applied for because those pricks will next be trying to get it closed completely. :mad:

#22 LOTI

LOTI
  • Member

  • 250 posts
  • Joined: August 04

Posted 05 May 2008 - 10:22

Brands Hatch has always had some noise limitation, like Sunday morning you couldn't fire up the engines until after the local vicar had finished the morning service and that is fair enough.They were always going to have trouble with the neighbours building so close to the track. I think that they should suggest that if they can't use the track for racing they will sell it as they know it would make a fine site for an open prison, a contaminated waste dump or maybe something nice and smelly like a pig farm or a tanning factory. I used to live near USAF Upper Heyford and I rather liked having F111s at the bottom of my garden but as history shows, the village outlasted the American Air Force and now the M40 provides much worst noise. Goodwood has un-silenced racing restrictions with a few days grace a year for the Revival which even then the locals complain about..... but no half as much as the light aircraft. I am afraid perfect peace is not obtainable in the south of England.
Loti

#23 Muz Bee

Muz Bee
  • Member

  • 2,531 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 05 May 2008 - 10:32

It's not a problem restricted to England, see my earlier thread. But it does seem that NIMBYs see other people's recreational facilities as soft targets. They never have a go at railway stations, container terminals, new motorways and so on. There is an incredible antipathy towards motorsport by the ignorant.

#24 Two Jags

Two Jags
  • Member

  • 75 posts
  • Joined: March 00

Posted 05 May 2008 - 10:47

Perhaps I'm being naive, but it seems a shame that they don't market any newly-built houses alongside the circuits to motor racing fans & personnel. Didn't Arsenal FC do something similar when they built their new stadium? I seem to recall adverts for new apartments next to the Emirates football ground that included multi-year season tickets as part of the deal.

#25 F1Fanatic.co.uk

F1Fanatic.co.uk
  • Member

  • 1,725 posts
  • Joined: May 05

Posted 05 May 2008 - 10:51

Originally posted by LOTI
Brands Hatch has always had some noise limitation, like Sunday morning you couldn't fire up the engines until after the local vicar had finished the morning service and that is fair enough.

I disagree!

#26 HDonaldCapps

HDonaldCapps
  • Member

  • 2,482 posts
  • Joined: April 05

Posted 05 May 2008 - 12:32

What sort of cheese assortment would y'all like with your whines?

#27 ensign14

ensign14
  • Member

  • 36,868 posts
  • Joined: December 01

Posted 05 May 2008 - 12:45

Originally posted by HDonaldCapps
What sort of cheese assortment would y'all like with your whines?

If it's an aircraft whine, we might be in breach of planning regulations.

#28 SevenTwoSeven

SevenTwoSeven
  • Member

  • 368 posts
  • Joined: March 08

Posted 05 May 2008 - 12:54

...when enquiring at cadwell park (which is in the middle of nowhere bar some farms and very very small villages) about trackdays, they, like all circuits i presume, have a noise restriction. However my roadcar i presumed would have been ok. No, i needed a bung :

Ok so i was running without the cat but the sound was somthing i highly prized!

So why does the noise restriction apply to me and those like me, but not to organised events that take place there? Or do they? Im sure a racing bike makes far more noise than my road car?

Do the local councils set the limits and allow organised events such as the bike racing they hold there to be unrestricted?

Just wondered :cat:

#29 LukeM

LukeM
  • Member

  • 961 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 05 May 2008 - 13:52

why dont u keep quiet dudley

#30 ensign14

ensign14
  • Member

  • 36,868 posts
  • Joined: December 01

Posted 05 May 2008 - 13:59

Originally posted by SevenTwoSeven

So why does the noise restriction apply to me and those like me, but not to organised events that take place there? Or do they? Im sure a racing bike makes far more noise than my road car?

You're normally allowed x days per year to exceed a noise allowance. Basically the problem goes back about 150 years when the Law Lords wanted to find in favour of a doctor over a boiled sweet hobbyist when the doctor moved his waiting room to nearer the boiled sweet manufacturing shed, and said that you can move to a nuisance and then get the nuisance ended (it's akin to a tree falling in a forest with no-one there to hear; a nuisance exists even if no-one is bothered). The Courts have been trying to back away from that decision ever since (Denning had some interesting comments on cricket balls and cows) but until someone else takes it to the Lords or Parliament does something it stands.

#31 Crazy Canuck

Crazy Canuck
  • Member

  • 2,516 posts
  • Joined: December 00

Posted 05 May 2008 - 14:08

There's a track I frequent in Georgia called Reobling Road Raceway that has noise limitations due to urban sprawl.

We have to be less than 100dB and there are no race engines permitted between 8pm and 8am. We also can not run our motors beteen 11:00am and 12:00pm on Sundays 'cause of church. If your car is too loud you don't race and you get a $100 fine from the track for any offense or timing oversight. The track has a sound meter along the front strait and they post reulsts after every session. The easy way to beat the system is to put a 90_degree elbow on the end of the exhaust pipe and direct the sound away from the sound meter.....For the racers it's really not a big deal.

The real threat is too the track. Living in such a litagous society it is quite possible that the local home owners could band together, get a lawer, and sue the track to bankrupcy. They would win unless the judge and jury were racers.....bye. bye, race track.

Brands needs support from the fans, not an ass kicking.


CC

#32 Dudley

Dudley
  • Member

  • 9,245 posts
  • Joined: March 00

Posted 05 May 2008 - 14:38

Originally posted by SevenTwoSeven
I guess these are the same people who protest against wind farms being built 50 miles from the coast out at sea or wherever it is they want to build them?


While I don't agree with the protests, it can't be stressed strongly enough that the wind farm here came AFTER people moved in.

#33 LB

LB
  • Member

  • 12,484 posts
  • Joined: February 01

Posted 05 May 2008 - 15:45

Knockhill is isolated from everywhere yet is also noise limited at times

#34 as65p

as65p
  • Member

  • 17,127 posts
  • Joined: June 04

Posted 05 May 2008 - 15:51

Originally posted by Chiara
...
If you want tranquility - buy a farm in the middle of nowhere :p


Even in that case, one day someone might build Magny Cours around it...

;)

#35 wj_gibson

wj_gibson
  • Member

  • 2,072 posts
  • Joined: January 05

Posted 05 May 2008 - 16:08

It doesn't actually reduce the amount of running at the circuit from its current levels, though, except in that scheduled races have to take place at the designated time. IMO the original poster is hysterically overreacting. If it was going to seriosuly restrict running, the circuit would have lodged an appeal, so the owner obviously feels OK with the revised rules.

#36 Uwe

Uwe
  • Member

  • 706 posts
  • Joined: June 00

Posted 05 May 2008 - 18:45

As soon as I can afford it I will buy a house near the Nurburgring and make an inquiry that they raise the noise limit to 120 dB because I couldn't enjoy my free Sunday due to kinky sounding noise-restricted race engines. :cool:

#37 Dolph

Dolph
  • Member

  • 4,572 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 05 May 2008 - 20:17

Originally posted by HDonaldCapps
What sort of cheese assortment would y'all like with your whines?


I don't know, maybe you say first!?

#38 Josta

Josta
  • Member

  • 2,237 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 05 May 2008 - 20:20

It reminds me of those idiots close to Stansted opposed to flight noise!!! If you don't like the noise of airplanes, don't buy a house near an airport. duh!!

#39 ex Rhodie racer

ex Rhodie racer
  • Member

  • 3,002 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 05 May 2008 - 20:44

What always makes me livid about these protesters is the fact that the enormous amount of people who visit any of these venues bring a ton of money to their area, but that is conveniently overlooked. They want to rake it in but they don´t want to be inconvenienced in any way while they do so. I always thought life was about give and take.

Advertisement

#40 Uwe

Uwe
  • Member

  • 706 posts
  • Joined: June 00

Posted 05 May 2008 - 20:53

Originally posted by HDonaldCapps
What sort of cheese assortment would y'all like with your whines?

Mr. Capps, some of your remarks in TNF concerning the state of modern F1 could deserve a similar comment.

#41 Dudley

Dudley
  • Member

  • 9,245 posts
  • Joined: March 00

Posted 05 May 2008 - 22:01

Originally posted by as65p


Even in that case, one day someone might build Magny Cours around it...

;)


At which point of course you can protest, you were there first ;)

It reminds me of those idiots close to Stansted opposed to flight noise!!! If you don't like the noise of airplanes, don't buy a house near an airport. duh!!


What they want to do is buy the house cheap and make silly money out of it. You buy in a crap area for whatever reason and then hope the area changes.

Yes it's pathetic and selfish but that's why they're doing it. **** everyone else's fun if their house is worth another £10k.

Mr. Capps, some of your remarks in TNF concerning the state of modern F1 could deserve a similar comment.


I presume Mr Capps did not mean the subject of this thread because it would be a pretty pathetic comment from a mod and even more so given he's interested in the history this is treading on.

#42 HDonaldCapps

HDonaldCapps
  • Member

  • 2,482 posts
  • Joined: April 05

Posted 05 May 2008 - 22:40

Originally posted by Dudley
I presume Mr Capps did not mean the subject of this thread because it would be a pretty pathetic comment from a mod and even more so given he's interested in the history this is treading on.


First, I am not a mod.

Second, according to more than a few here, I am certainly pathetic.

#43 HDonaldCapps

HDonaldCapps
  • Member

  • 2,482 posts
  • Joined: April 05

Posted 05 May 2008 - 22:42

Originally posted by Uwe
Mr. Capps, some of your remarks in TNF concerning the state of modern F1 could deserve a similar comment.


Don't like 'em, don't read 'em. And, just for your reading pleasure, let me tell what I really think about the current state of farce one racing.....


@#$^#%$@_(_(*R@%$%^@_E$)+)+)@%$%KLKD_)$NP((_(_(O_+@#%@_)(&@@*I(, and so forth.....

#44 Dudley

Dudley
  • Member

  • 9,245 posts
  • Joined: March 00

Posted 05 May 2008 - 23:12

Originally posted by HDonaldCapps


First, I am not a mod.

Second, according to more than a few here, I am certainly pathetic.


Then if you do think a once great circuit being dismantled over pathetic residents is "whining" on our part then I can only assume you're a very long running gimmick account.

#45 Fatgadget

Fatgadget
  • Member

  • 1,929 posts
  • Joined: March 06

Posted 06 May 2008 - 00:06

Lets face it. When push comes to shove,we are all NIMBYs. ):

#46 djd

djd
  • Member

  • 193 posts
  • Joined: February 03

Posted 06 May 2008 - 02:03

Originally posted by The Big Guns
That's terrible :(. The first motor race I ever went to see was at brands. Fond memories...


Yep, memories here of listening to the F1 cars from Brands at our house near there as a young boy.

#47 Uwe

Uwe
  • Member

  • 706 posts
  • Joined: June 00

Posted 06 May 2008 - 05:57

Originally posted by HDonaldCapps
Don't like 'em, don't read 'em.

So why did you read this thread then?

#48 Dudley

Dudley
  • Member

  • 9,245 posts
  • Joined: March 00

Posted 06 May 2008 - 08:03

Originally posted by Fatgadget
Lets face it. When push comes to shove,we are all NIMBYs. ):


But that's just it, NIMBYism is understandable. This isn't that. If they wanted to build a racing circuit next to them I'd have all the sympathy in the world, and want their house of course.

This is people moving next to an existing noise source that's been there 50 years. This NotInMyNEWBackYardism.

And that can **** right off.

#49 Arjan de Roos

Arjan de Roos
  • Member

  • 2,086 posts
  • Joined: July 02

Posted 06 May 2008 - 10:31

Originally posted by Dudley
http://news.bbc.co.u...ent/7377543.stm

They can just f*** off. The tracks been there 50 years. Don't tell me they didn't notice it when they bought the house.

Put up with it or move.


This is all too familiair for motor racing fans in Holland. Since the early eighties, maybe even before has this track been haunted by the same complaints. People moving into Zandvoort and all of a sudden find out that racing takes place on many weekends. Then they join the complaining lobby group. Luckily there is also another group fiercely pro track and seem to keep it in balance.

Politicians have felt the urge to rein over this situation. And here we are in 2008 with the track being granted 5 'noise' days per year. A 'noise' day is a day that a certain decibel level may be reached, or an international race venue can take place. When Zandvoort got the opportunity to host the Masters of F3, the DTM and the WTCC they asked for extra 'noise' days. First they got the permit: politicians do feel the economic importance of such great events. But then the permit was withdrawn, reason: environmentalists found out that a special endangered frog lives in the dunes...

Gentlemen: its all a sign of the times. Dont wonder why tracks emerge in Malaysia, China, Bahrain, etc.
And for cheese: pass me the Porte Salut.

#50 HDonaldCapps

HDonaldCapps
  • Member

  • 2,482 posts
  • Joined: April 05

Posted 06 May 2008 - 10:44

Originally posted by Uwe
So why did you read this thread then?


To bug people like yourself.