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F1 Racing (magazine) and F1 media in general...(merged)


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#201 bankoq

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Posted 04 December 2008 - 23:56

Originally posted by Mat Rempit
I had stopped the subscription of F1 Racing Magazine since early 2008.

Reason?? - Matt Bishop and all the writers placed Lewis Hamilton at the altar of GOD,...that it became totally unreadable....
every issue has the face of Lewis on the coverpage.....
and in every race analysis,..there is some talk about Lewis Hamilton's god like ability in cornering,...friction circle theory by Windsor.

It is totally unbearable, to the point i had stopped buying F1 Racing.



Anyone else did the same?


Me for exactly same reasons.

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#202 Ocelot

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Posted 05 December 2008 - 00:52

Considering these kind of comments it's pretty unsurprising that cuts are taking place.

Then again, against the backdrop of today's news about Honda, "reducing the number of writers/contributors" could mean that they are all getting the chop. Are we being given a hint here that F1 Racing is about to close its doors?

#203 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 05 December 2008 - 05:53

Yes there is a round of redundancies in Haymarket, but it's not linked to any particular role or even a particular division. The company at the group level decided it wanted to save some money and they went looking for people they could afford to lose. It ranges literally from the receptionist at the front desk to the company communications director.


Personally I'm skeptical as the company is still doing well and the family that run it make a very nice sum.

#204 Craven Morehead

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Posted 05 December 2008 - 06:45

I bought my first F1R in a few years last week, while on a trip outta town. Still seemed like lightweight pulp. Then I started reading the race reports and nearly gagged at the drivel. Frickin' Peter Windsor; the **** who single-handedly drove me away from Speed Vision and back to Martin & James. I knew he'd be in it, but his crap was even worse than I was expecting. I have (again) vowed not to buy it again. Anybody remember 'Prix Editions'?

#205 pikamoku

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Posted 05 December 2008 - 07:14

Originally posted by Mat Rempit I had stopped the subscription of F1 Racing Magazine since early 2008. Reason?? - Matt Bishop and all the writers placed Lewis Hamilton at the altar of GOD,...that it became totally unreadable.... every issue has the face of Lewis on the coverpage..... and in every race analysis,..there is some talk about Lewis Hamilton's god like ability in cornering,...friction circle theory by Windsor. It is totally unbearable, to the point i had stopped buying F1 Racing. Anyone else did the same?



+1 :up:

a shame, because I used to enjoy with it

#206 dank

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Posted 05 December 2008 - 09:15

Originally posted by Craven Morehead
I bought my first F1R in a few years last week, while on a trip outta town. Still seemed like lightweight pulp. Then I started reading the race reports and nearly gagged at the drivel. Frickin' Peter Windsor; the **** who single-handedly drove me away from Speed Vision and back to Martin & James. I knew he'd be in it, but his crap was even worse than I was expecting. I have (again) vowed not to buy it again. Anybody remember 'Prix Editions'?


I still subscribe and have every single issue since 1996 sitting in a pile gathering dust. I don't know if it's me growing old and getting nostalgic, but the magazine really has taken a nose dive in the past 12/18 months. I would even suggest more so since their redesign in the summer. It's just not essential reading any more. They can't compete with the Internet when it comes to news, Lewis Hamilton doesn't hold my interest any more after reading about him for the millionth time and the features seem to have reached the bottom of the barrel as they've covered just about everything in F1 already. Twice.

#207 bradleyl

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Posted 05 December 2008 - 09:18

I must say, this Forum can be a frustrating place sometimes. After a long thread in which the previous failings of the magazine were discussed at length, and balanced views given of the redesigned product, we're back to bandwagon-jumping and abusive posts. Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose...

I'd respond robustly to any suggestion that the magazine is 'lightweight pulp'. You'll find a heap more feature content about what F1 is really like these days in our magazine than in any rival, for my money. Equally, the previous tendency to deify Lewis has also disappeared - yes he's on the cover this month, but he's just won the world championship. Since the new editorial team came on board, his face has been on the cover twice - both with very good reason (British GP and championship win).

Overall, I think we offer a balanced and wide-ranging look at the sport. Here's a sample from this month's content: climbing Mount Fuji with Sebastian Vettel; a long piece from Britain's last world champion, Damon Hill, about what the impact on Lewis will be of winning the title; James Allen taking on his critics; Felipe Massa talking frankly about his season; the first mechanic ever to work with Ayrton Senna, in a favela in Sao Paulo; a profile of Mario Andretti, world champ 30 years ago this year; and even a behind-the-scenes piece with the F1 stewards - who else bothered to try and find out what they actually do, after all the controversies, rather than simply proceeding on hearsay and tittle-tattle?

There may be quibbles about content, some things people don't like, and that's always very useful feedback to receive; it's good to know what people like and dislike, and I think we've shown before on the Forum that we're very open to constructive criticism (we have a good stab at responding to every editorial letter we receive too).

But it's a shame when constructive criticism is replaced by reflexive shouts of 'yeah, I agree' from people who reproach us for the decisions of a previous editor who left a year ago, without having the read the magazine in its new format. As you'll see going back through the thread, if and when you have time, the overall reaction to the redesign for the July issue was very positive; and I think the magazine has only got stronger since then.

#208 bradleyl

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Posted 05 December 2008 - 09:20

dank, just read your post. It's a shame you feel that way; I'd hope that our features are doing more than covering old ground (I'm responsible for many of the ideas!), especially as the magazine has refocused itself quite significantly in the past six months. Feel free to get in touch directly if you want to develop your thoughts, it's always interesting to hear what our readers have to say at more length than the open discussion of the forum allows.

All the best.

Bradley

#209 kar

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Posted 05 December 2008 - 09:32

The magazine is better in some respects and worse in others. For example the Schumacher interview edition which I bought wasn't brilliant. I got suckered in by the cover and stupidly didn't see who the interviewer was with Michael. It was unfortunately that black hole of F1 passion (and knowledge), Hans Boredom, in charge of proceedings :/

This month I saw a pic on the internet of this month's cover and thought it was a joke. Imagine the horror, then when seeing it wasn't and was on the shelf (in clearly plentiful supply) in all Lewis' glory (were you trying to set a record on how many times you can mention a single driver on the cover?).

For me, the magazine *is* better than before, but that's like saying a Dacia Sandero is better than a Hyundai Accent.

But it's still far too light weight. The graphical design, a step backwards in my opinion, is all about impact over substance (or indeed style). F1 Racing, clearly, is the journalism equivalent of a Wii. Motorsport, the 360. One you can pick up and put down and feel unaffected. The other gives you a much richer, involving experience. One has a more mass market, casual, appeal, but the mass market is fickle, the 'core' market has a high attach rate (you can rely on them to buy month in month out, there may be less of them, but each of them give you more money). I really do feel, and I know you disagree, that the magazine simply has lowered the bar too much for it to be taken seriously by really passionate f1 fans.

When you look at the demographic these days of F1 fans (and Bernie is bricking it hence his gold medals nonsense), the majority are in their mid to late twenties and above. Lightweight puff, just doesn't cut it in this demo.

New fans are not coming into the sport in their teens and so I really think the magazine is now pitched wrong. The print market has changed, people buy magazines for depth they cannot get on the internet, and F1 Racing, still, is not providing that depth. It's geared, almost, to the kinds of readers who buy Nuts magazine. And even their market is shrinking.

Why is F1 Racing going with such a loser strategy? I don't like Motorsport's editorial line 3/4s of the time (they wear their anglo-centric views on their sleeves, and are all too eager to indulge fantasy conspiracy nonsense) but at least there is a depth there, a gravitas. I don't know how F1 Racing can get that, but I think the current direction while not doomed to failure, is doomed to mediocre irrelevance. And that usually leads to print publications being wound up...

#210 bradleyl

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Posted 05 December 2008 - 09:49

As I've repeatedly said, we're open to constructive criticism. You've said we lack 'depth'. So what should the magazine have more of? Where can this depth be found? I'm interested in what your views. And I'm talking about content, rather than style (by which I mean your 'gravitas' of tone, for example). Let's hear some good, constructive ideas to improve on the magazine rather than cheap shots at the people who work on it. I've said before, and will do again, that we're open to dialogue and your views - so feel free to drop us a line.

#211 kar

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Posted 05 December 2008 - 10:17

Simple, more words in my opinion. Many more words. Big words even, maybe even ones with more than 3 syllables. And paragraphs, big stinking piles of them, one after the other. Basically one notch down from what Motorsport does. Actually, if you want to see what I think is a tremendous template for a mature magazine, take a look at GamesTM or Edge. The latter is more turgid, but both are great examples of publications aimed at adults that have both depth, as well as style.

There needs to be more exposition and detail. Really sometimes, and this is particularly bad with Hans, it's just all to obvious he doesn't truly give a toss about F1 it's a job, not a passion. You can't fake really caring about something, it just exudes in everything you do and say.

For example, I don't have the article at hand, but in the Schumacher interview here was an extraordinary opportunity to interview the greatest driver in the history of the sport** and a guy who if you ask him really interesting questions gives you really good answers. I mean I would be really interested to know what Michael would do, for example, if he were responsible for the regulations. Would he open them up, would he lock them down. How would he improve the sport if given cart blanche. Maybe his response would be too verbose. You might even have had to sacrifice some of the garish design to fit it all in.

I would ask him about Fernando Alonso, not Lewis Hamilton or Felipe Massa (easy pickings those ones and done to death by every other interviewer) and try and compare and contrast Alonso's mindset with his own after 1994 (and the FIA interference and all the rampant politics of the time). I would ask Michael about how Alonso could turn Renault around in the way Michael helped turn Ferrari around.

I would ask Michael about what his childhood, and how _he_ thought some of his traits come to be what they were. I know from myself as a kid doing lots of middle distance athletics there was a close correlation with how hard you trained, and how well you performed at meets. It meant I developed a strong internal locus of control. I would really love to get an idea, a detailed and self-reflective insight into how Michael thinks he became the champion he became.

Unfortunately what we got instead was a diet coke interview, predictable questions that of course led to largely predictable responses. What you had was an interviewer that had some notes asked some questions got some answers.

Mediocre in short.

The interviews, really, have little depth or any real detail. There's so much you could ask these guys that they don't get asked anywhere else. I have to admit I really do not have a good understanding of the time limits and the topic restrictions or whatever is in place when conducting interviews, but you know, take a look at Bira's interview with Pierre from Michelin in 2003, quite possibly the greatest F1 interview I've ever read. Look at what she did there, and the result. While you're almost never going to beat that interview, can't you at least try and come close?

**IMO :)*

#212 Craven Morehead

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Posted 05 December 2008 - 10:22

Originally posted by bradleyl
I must say, this Forum can be a frustrating place sometimes. After a long thread in which the previous failings of the magazine were discussed at length, and balanced views given of the redesigned product, we're back to bandwagon-jumping and abusive posts. Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose...

I'd respond robustly to any suggestion that the magazine is 'lightweight pulp'. You'll find a heap more feature content about what F1 is really like these days in our magazine than in any rival, for my money. Equally, the previous tendency to deify Lewis has also disappeared - yes he's on the cover this month, but he's just won the world championship. Since the new editorial team came on board, his face has been on the cover twice - both with very good reason (British GP and championship win).

Overall, I think we offer a balanced and wide-ranging look at the sport. Here's a sample from this month's content: climbing Mount Fuji with Sebastian Vettel; a long piece from Britain's last world champion, Damon Hill, about what the impact on Lewis will be of winning the title; James Allen taking on his critics; Felipe Massa talking frankly about his season; the first mechanic ever to work with Ayrton Senna, in a favela in Sao Paulo; a profile of Mario Andretti, world champ 30 years ago this year; and even a behind-the-scenes piece with the F1 stewards - who else bothered to try and find out what they actually do, after all the controversies, rather than simply proceeding on hearsay and tittle-tattle?

There may be quibbles about content, some things people don't like, and that's always very useful feedback to receive; it's good to know what people like and dislike, and I think we've shown before on the Forum that we're very open to constructive criticism (we have a good stab at responding to every editorial letter we receive too).

But it's a shame when constructive criticism is replaced by reflexive shouts of 'yeah, I agree' from people who reproach us for the decisions of a previous editor who left a year ago, without having the read the magazine in its new format. As you'll see going back through the thread, if and when you have time, the overall reaction to the redesign for the July issue was very positive; and I think the magazine has only got stronger since then.


Well I suppose I should respond to this, given that you respond robustly to my 'lightweight pulp' comment. I'll begin saying I don't consider myself either 'bandjumping' (I decided all by myself to quit buying F1R some time ago) or 'abusive' (and frankly calling people 'abusive' just because they don't like what you're selling is less than constructive in itself). I grew up reading autosport and to a lesser extent motorsport, and have been interested in racing for 30 some yrs. Spent some years working in the area in my small way.

As noted, I recently picked up my first F1R in some time, the December '08 issue. I paid $11.95 cdn for it before taxes, which is a heck of a lot for a mag imo. On the cover is Michael Schumacher, His cover quote is about (who else) Lewis. The Schumi interview is pretty good, I thought, though its just awash in several pages of what is essentially the same photoraph. Then we have a 'big debate' about F1's financial crisis which really amounts to a large photo and about a third of a page of actual copy (turns something important into lightweight you know what). This is a topic that could easily be worth many, many pages of coverage. There's a feature on Kubica going bowling, this I won't read (seems like pulp). There's a bit on championship showdowns, but each of the ten selected is distilled down to the shortest possible paragragh. Too bad, this could have been a killer feature from my point of view. The JV interview is OK-ish. We have a feature on some guy going to Monza wearing McLaren gear, ugh (seems like pulp to me). To your personal credit Bradley, by far my fave piece in the mag is your write up on the MP4/4, the content of which is a clear step above most of the other stuff. I haven't read DC's interview yet. Alan Henry's 'lost circuits of Formula 1' is good, though for me it could have been longer. Then we have four pages on Formula One motorhomes which I will never bother to read (seems like you know what). And then there's Peter Windsor who just drives me insane, but I admit that's a personal thing. F1 Racing has always been consistent about providing lots of glossy colour pics, but for me the copy is just somehow not very in depth, and this issue seems to continue the trend. I can't help the feeling that if you took all the photos away, there wouldn't be that much content left. For me, it would be far more appealing to have a lot more of the written word and fewer photos, hence my 'lightweight' comment.

So there it is. My review of the December issue. I'm sorry if it annoys you, but the mag just lacks something for me. I think a quick look at 'MotorSport' shows a mag that somehow isn't so 'lightweight'.

cheers Bradley, and all the best to you in your work.

#213 kar

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Posted 05 December 2008 - 10:45

We have a feature on some guy going to Monza wearing McLaren gear, ugh (seems like pulp to me).


Oh god I'd forgotten about that one. It's quite galling actually that they could have put even more detail in to the lost circuits feature or Michael's interview but instead had to waste space with that rubbish.

#214 Rob

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Posted 05 December 2008 - 10:50

Originally posted by kar


Oh god I'd forgotten about that one. It's quite galling actually that they could have put even more detail in to the lost circuits feature or Michael's interview but instead had to waste space with that rubbish.


I stopped subscribing (yes, guilty as charged, I subscribed) a couple of years back. The mag was really becoming lightweight fluff. I used to look forward to a new issue, at the end I'd become completely indifferent about it. What you've described sounds like exactly the sort of thing that annoyed me before I cancelled.

#215 Craven Morehead

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Posted 05 December 2008 - 11:26

That is a great post Kar (#211) and far better explains my point of view than my own post did. Cheers for that. I've chosen just a small bit of what you said to high light what I'm trying to say F1R needs:

Simple, more words in my opinion. Many more words. Big words even, maybe even ones with more than 3 syllables. And paragraphs, big stinking piles of them, one after the other. Basically one notch down from what Motorsport does.



Yes, this it it. Words, paragraphs, content please! I buy magazines for stuff to read, rather than glossy pictures to look at. OK, pictures are good, but they are not nearly enough. Lots of magazines can show the way. From Motorsport to Autocar to Road & Track to Playboy to Guitar Player they all have word content. When Rubython's mag came out years ago, the first bunch of issues just blew me away with content. There was so much insider stuff and analysis to read; there was just no going back to F1R after that. OK, Rubython's mag had it's own problems but those first few issues really defined what an F1 mag could be.

#216 kar

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Posted 05 December 2008 - 11:41

On the flipside, Bradley would argue that if they made the magazine too heavy it would alienate new fans to the sport. The argument being that F1 has fans from the hardcore to the casual. The casual fans don't really have a magazine for them at the moment while the hardcore have Motorsport.

I would argue that casual fans don't buy magazines in great numbers, but even if they did, the majority of casual fans would, in most instances, be 25+ years old. Having style, being punchy, you can do that without sacrificing good, meaty prose.

We rarely get gritty, detailed exposition online, it's the one area print can still compete. Motorsport has realised this and is reaping the benefits. F1 Racing seems to think that being everything to everyone will work, sorry.

It wont.

Basically they have to accept that there is only a finite market now for magazine purchases. They need to identify the characteristics of that market and tune themselves to that. I really think they have a flawed strategy and the magazine they publish each month is a testament to a shotgun approach. The current direction shows a sadly naive belief that they can still appeal equally to casual and core F1 fans alike.

You can't.

What F1 Racing should do is pick its market, one or the other, and go whole hog after it. Casual is so much better done online now. If they really lust after that market - do it online. In print though, I reckon they should focus on the more cosmopolitan 'core' fanbase and really tailor their offering to them. Motorsport have the older, older fanbase locked in pretty well but there's a big group of 25-39 year olds that are up for grabs and these guys are more marketable to advertisers. To appeal to this demo they need detail and they need style. Motorsport will perhaps always have a little more gravitas, but F1 Racing can maybe trade off on its youth a bit to be a magazine for adults about modern F1 with a nod to the past. This will differentiate its offering to Motorsport which is a magazine for adults about historic F1 with a nod to the present.

That would work.

#217 Craven Morehead

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Posted 05 December 2008 - 12:08

Completely agreed, again. :up: If one were to compare the word count in MotorSport to the word count in F1R, I wonder what the statistic would be? 3:1? Probably (a helluva lot) more? Sadly, F1R's idea of an 'article' often just reads like the introduction to me. I turn the page expecting (a lot) more, only to wonder 'could that really be it?'. Nothing seems to be really covered in any depth, and the style of writing, too, is often less than mature.

I hate to beat a dead horse, but really this is it: If you want a great model of what a truly great Motorsport magazine should be, look no further that MotorSport. Kar's post directly above this one describes exactly the magazine I'd like to subscribe to. A magazine that analyzes the issues with pages of text and genuine insight, rather than looking at both sides of something as important as the financial crisis in one third of a page. That's one sixth of a page for each side, which is just rediculous. As I said, that's barely an intro.

Give me 'MotorSport' but about current F1, and I'll buy every issue. I burned through the December issue of F1R in pretty much one sitting on the first night in the hotel room and had all sorts of time left over. This just isn't possible with MotorSport. The way f1R is now, my eight year old can read it. Are writers really so expensive?

#218 Ocelot

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Posted 05 December 2008 - 12:14

Are writers really so expensive?


Maybe they were but the management finally realised that they weren't worth it - hence the job cuts...
Maybe this ill be a good thing since if F1R's pagecount gets slashed, the editor will be forced to ensure that what remains is quality not dross.

#219 Buttoneer

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Posted 05 December 2008 - 12:40

A monthly magazine can never win on news, only ever on features. F1R really needs to strive to include a months worth of feature content as a result.

Kar's suggestions make a lot of sense but...If the journalist isn't up to the task an article will never be any good, and that goes even more for the editor. I hope that the journalistic approach has been guided by the editor and that this can be turned around with a change of heart.

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#220 F1Fanatic.co.uk

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Posted 05 December 2008 - 12:46

Originally posted by kar
The magazine is better in some respects and worse in others. For example the Schumacher interview edition which I bought wasn't brilliant. I got suckered in by the cover and stupidly didn't see who the interviewer was with Michael. It was unfortunately that black hole of F1 passion (and knowledge), Hans Boredom, in charge of proceedings :/

And why did they use a picture of Schumacher that made him look like one of the undead?

#221 Buttoneer

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Posted 05 December 2008 - 12:47

Originally posted by F1Fanatic.co.uk

And why did they use a picture of Schumacher that made him look like one of the undead?

He's not?

#222 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 05 December 2008 - 12:49

It's not that these latest round of posts are so poorly though out that is baffling, but that they were predicated on iffy sources about Haymarket redundancies.

#223 Ocelot

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Posted 05 December 2008 - 13:31

It's not that these latest round of posts are so poorly though out that is baffling, but that they were predicated on iffy sources about Haymarket redundancies.


But Ross, you confirmed that "there is a round of redundancies in Haymarket" and that "it ranges literally from the receptionist at the front desk to the company communications director." I'd say that any company is making a serious statement if it axes its communications director.

#224 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 05 December 2008 - 13:36

Yes I as someone who is here and is familiar with what's going on, is commenting. That's a far cry from dank who thinks he can name names.

#225 Jackman

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Posted 05 December 2008 - 13:45

Yeah, but you're also talking to people who think Haymarket = motoring journals only.

#226 Imperial

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Posted 05 December 2008 - 14:04

Originally posted by bradleyl
the overall reaction to the redesign for the July issue was very positive; and I think the magazine has only got stronger since then. [/B]


Having been very vocal on this subject previously, I would like to add myself as one of the subscribers who is now very happy with the direction the mag has gone in since the redesign.

I happen to think that it's on course to be almost up there with the glory days. It was inevitable there'd be a lotta Lewis this month and that is fine by me. Nothing could be worse than the wretched days of just a few years ago when Schumacher made the cover seemingly every month.

There is one thing I was hoping would stay but appears not to have....the long interview. Granted that was done by Matt Bishop but somebody else could take that role on of course. I do really miss that but overall I think a really great improvement has been made and I am actually now picking the magazine up from the doorstep with huge anticipation as to what will be inside each month. It's only a matter of months ago when I was promising myself I would definitely be cancelling my subscription this time.

A job well done I would say!

#227 dank

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Posted 05 December 2008 - 18:00

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
Yes I as someone who is here and is familiar with what's going on, is commenting. That's a far cry from dank who thinks he can name names.


I don't think, I know thanks very much. Stuart Codling:

http://www.sidepodca...-by-march-2009/

Evening all,

Well, this is probably the appropriate kind of thread in which to announce that I am soon to depart F1R owing to an economy-related “headcount reduction”…


That do?

#228 E.C.

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Posted 05 December 2008 - 22:58

Originally posted by kar


The interviews, really, have little depth or any real detail. There's so much you could ask these guys that they don't get asked anywhere else.


Precisely. F1 Racing used to be a "must read" from cover to cover*, but most of the content has become far too superficial. The contents page is usually full of promise but most of the actual articles are a big letdown.

* Except anything written by Peter Windsor. I don't think I've ever got past the first paragraph of anything he's ever written. Second-phase turn-in anyone?

#229 Ocelot

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Posted 05 December 2008 - 23:26

It's not that these latest round of posts are so poorly though out that is baffling, but that they were predicated on iffy sources about Haymarket redundancies.


Yeah, but you're also talking to people who think Haymarket = motoring journals only.


Gotta hand it to Dank - he has a link to the deputy editor of F1 Racing saying that he is leaving the magazine. We also havethe autosport.com photo editor saying that Haymarket's communications director is someone "they could afford to lose."

Is F1 Racing going the way of Honda F1?

#230 pgj

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Posted 05 December 2008 - 23:55

There have been reports that more than one buyer has expressed an interest in Honda F1. Do not expect any buyer to be ready to throw away £300m+ pa for the sake of F1. No buyer will enter F1 in the current climate without assurances from Max and Bernie that costs will be slashed. If that kind of buyer existed, they would already be in F1.

#231 MonzaOne

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Posted 06 December 2008 - 00:37

I do buy F1 Racing, Autosport and Motorsport. And I enjoy all three of them.

Each of them service different parts of motor racing.

Personally I do not care what Mosely does in his private life. I am not interested in that. I have known who Max is for over 3 decades, since I was a kid, and he contributed as has Bernie, a lot to the sport providing drivers with the means to compete and a great deal of pleasure and happiness for me.

I remember that Max was part of the wonderful M[mosely]ARCH team who not only were championship winners but also provided drivers such as Lauda, Peterson, the "Monza Gorilla" Vittorio Brambilla and Lella Lombardi with cars amongst many others. Just that they were responsible for hiring the 37 year old "Brambles" makes it all worthwhile for me.

Max was also always really the brightest on the grid. Just ask Bernie - any rule question and Max almost knew it without looking it up and he was correct.

So for those who have no idea who Max is, other than the FIA position he holds and manages well, I say, do not condemn a man who has contributed a great deal to the sport we all love and admire, but focus rather on his body of work and effort. It does count for everything.

I do not want ANY magazines about the sport to weigh in on silly scandals.

I think that F1 Racing has improved, especially artwork wise since Bishop left. Those idiotic out of focus photos of racing cars have no business to be in a good racing magazine and belong in one of those phoney art galleries in Chelsea NYC.

The one thing I would change in all magazines is the front cover. They all resemble tabloids. Why not have a chosen, proper, color picture of a racing car during a grand prix for example each time? Both Autosport and Motorsport used to be that way years ago.

And while Peter Windsor's adoration of Hamilton is irksome because it is pathetic - similar to that which is now underway over Obama in the US by the leftists [is it coincidence that they are both considered black people?] - his writing in the magazine is definitely better, or so itseems, since Bishop [could never stand him] left.

#232 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 06 December 2008 - 05:29

Originally posted by Ocelot




Gotta hand it to Dank - he has a link to the deputy editor of F1 Racing saying that he is leaving the magazine. We also havethe autosport.com photo editor saying that Haymarket's communications director is someone "they could afford to lose."

Is F1 Racing going the way of Honda F1?


Stuart leaving isn't a reflection on what's going on at F1 Racing. Everyone division of the company was told back in August (maybe Septemer) to cut costs or possibly cut people. And as Stuart had made his departure public dank should have provided the link instead of hinting he had insider info.

It's not my opinion that we could afford to lose the communications director (or the receptionist for that matter) but is simply what has happened. Haymarket decided to have a cull and in a lot of ways it was pure dumb luck who was in and who was out.

#233 buellher

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Posted 06 December 2008 - 05:47

My husband and I used to fight over who got it first, and then both of us read cover to cover. Those days are long gone, and we let our subscription lapse, for most of the reasons mentioned in other posts.

#234 dank

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Posted 06 December 2008 - 09:28

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld


Stuart leaving isn't a reflection on what's going on at F1 Racing. Everyone division of the company was told back in August (maybe Septemer) to cut costs or possibly cut people. And as Stuart had made his departure public dank should have provided the link instead of hinting he had insider info.


Oh leave off. I know everything written on the Internet is in the public domain, but I didn't know if I would be jeopardising anything for him by initially linking to it - especially as it is contained within a few hundred comments in a blog and would probably have remained anonymous anyway.

#235 Ocelot

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Posted 06 December 2008 - 16:01

It's not my opinion that we could afford to lose the communications director (or the receptionist for that matter) but is simply what has happened.


Apologies duly offered. You did in fact say that the the company, at group level, decided that they could afford to lose the communications director (for a media company I find that amazing but nevertheless...).

Stuart leaving isn't a reflection on what's going on at F1 Racing.


I don't understand this post when Stuart himself said 'I am soon to depart F1R owing to an economy-related “headcount reduction”…' What else is leading to lay offs at F1 Racing in addition to the headcount reduction which reflects in Stuart's departure?

It's not that these latest round of posts are so poorly though out that is baffling, but that they were predicated on iffy sources about Haymarket redundancies.


In light of the direct quote from Stuart, this above post has been proven to be flatly inaccurate.

#236 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 06 December 2008 - 16:08

No, you guys are still demonstrating an ignorance of what is going on in Haymarket. That's not a criticism because there's no way you could possibly know.

Haymarket is far far bigger than just the racing titles. The racing mags themselves are small fish just within the Consumer Media division. That we have lost our receptionist, and our comms director, and a senior member of the baord, and a deputy editor on F1 racing, and people in subscriptions, and production, and sales, and and and shows the company itself is (or thinks it is) in a bit of trouble and the people who are having to go are in many ways simply unlucky. It really is a case of music chairs the last few weeks. Stuart's a good guy and does what he does well, he just wasn't in the right place at the right time. It could have just as easily been someone from MN, or Autosport, or Autosport.com that had to go.

I don't disagree with the oddity of a media company getting rid of it's communications person, but to be fair we never had that role before this person came in, so I'm not sure it was seen as a must have position.

#237 Ocelot

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Posted 06 December 2008 - 16:24

All sounds understandable. The one thing I still don't get though is your comment that dank's info is predicated on iffy sources when it comes straight from Stuart.

Redundancies are nothing to be ashamed of (but not to be proud of either!) - they are a sad sign of the times. Heck, look at Honda Racing, Lehman Brothers, Woolworths, MFI, RBS, Bear Stearns, Zoom Travel etc etc etc - I wouldn't be surprised if Haymarket's board decided to close an entire magazine over the coming months.

#238 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 06 December 2008 - 16:25

Oh we did that months ago.

#239 Ocelot

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Posted 06 December 2008 - 16:34

Oh we did that months ago.


What I mean is that Dank said layoffs are on the way from Haymarket and quoted Stuart Codling himself confirming this. You then cast doubt on this referring to his 'iffy sources'.

As I said, redundancies are nothing to be ashamed of - if Honda, Lehman Brothers, Woolworths etc can be stung by the economy then it's plainly obvious that Haymarket isn't immune and it could even close divisions, let alone magazines. So Haymarket laying off staff is hardly a shock and certainly not something that should be tried to be covered up - particularly when it comes straight form the mouth of the journalist being made redundant!!

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#240 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 06 December 2008 - 16:38

Well dan should have brought that up initially instead of presenting things in a different way.

Personally I think Haymarket is being a bit like HSBC and thinking "hmm, there's some money to be saved here" rather than having to cast aside things dragging the company down. We're a privately owned company and should be more flexible.

#241 Ocelot

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Posted 06 December 2008 - 16:44

Well dan should have brought that up initially instead of presenting things in a different way.

Well dan should have brought that up initially instead of presenting things in a different way.


Maybe. But the end result is that the source was far from 'iffy'...

Personally I think Haymarket is being a bit like HSBC and thinking "hmm, there's some money to be saved here" rather than having to cast aside things dragging the company down.


Quite possibly and that clearly could involve websites, magazines, departments and most likely of all, jobs, hitting the wall. It's the name of the game at the moment which is why it is futile for anyone to try and argue that a media company (reliant on punters buying products and companies advertising) isn't looking at downsizing right now.

#242 Jackman

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Posted 06 December 2008 - 17:11

Do you spend your spare time hanging around a motorway waiting for a crash to happen? You only seem to post doom and gloom stories about companies that you don't work for (Williams, Honda, Haymarket), to the extent that you appear to get some sort of enjoyment out of it.

Haymarket downsized a bit (about 3% of the workforce) when they saw the economy dropping, a large part of that being a women's magazine that was closed due to falling sales. You've already been told that the motoring section is a very small portion of the overall company, and that's the section this thread is about.

The economy is not great, and Haymarket have made some sensible steps to protect itself from the downturn. So why do you give the sense that you're hoping for more to come?

#243 Ocelot

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Posted 06 December 2008 - 17:21

So why do you give the sense that you're hoping for more to come?


Hey buddy, why do you give the sense that you're so touchy about this? I didn't start this thread nor did I post the news about the lay offs at Haymarket so I'd be grateful if you don't get at me mate. It's not my problem and, to be frank, I couldn't care less - I was just remarking on how another bloke here was being responded to.

You only seem to post doom and gloom stories about companies that you don't work for (Williams, Honda, Haymarket)


Errr, in case you haven't realised, there isn't much good news out there at the moment!

You've already been told that the motoring section is a very small portion of the overall company, and that's the section this thread is about.


Quite - the recent posts have been about lay offs in the motoring section which clearly are happening and do not seem to come from iffy sources as was first suggested. That's the point I was making. As for whether Haymarket overall is in good health or about to hit the deck I have no idea and am not about to comment on. What I do know is that a host of longstanding companies that I would never have expected to disappear have gone by the wayside recently and jobs are being lost left right and centre in motorsport as well as many other industries. So, as I have already said, it's hardly a surprise that this is happening at Haymarket and not something that should be tried to be covered up - particularly when it comes straight from the guy being downsized!!

#244 Jackman

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Posted 06 December 2008 - 17:29

Yes dear.

#245 jesee

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Posted 06 December 2008 - 17:30

Originally posted by MonzaOne
I do buy F1 Racing, Autosport and Motorsport. And I enjoy all three of them.

Each of them service different parts of motor racing.

Personally I do not care what Mosely does in his private life. I am not interested in that. I have known who Max is for over 3 decades, since I was a kid, and he contributed as has Bernie, a lot to the sport providing drivers with the means to compete and a great deal of pleasure and happiness for me.

I remember that Max was part of the wonderful M[mosely]ARCH team who not only were championship winners but also provided drivers such as Lauda, Peterson, the "Monza Gorilla" Vittorio Brambilla and Lella Lombardi with cars amongst many others. Just that they were responsible for hiring the 37 year old "Brambles" makes it all worthwhile for me.

Max was also always really the brightest on the grid. Just ask Bernie - any rule question and Max almost knew it without looking it up and he was correct.

So for those who have no idea who Max is, other than the FIA position he holds and manages well, I say, do not condemn a man who has contributed a great deal to the sport we all love and admire, but focus rather on his body of work and effort. It does count for everything.

I do not want ANY magazines about the sport to weigh in on silly scandals.

I think that F1 Racing has improved, especially artwork wise since Bishop left. Those idiotic out of focus photos of racing cars have no business to be in a good racing magazine and belong in one of those phoney art galleries in Chelsea NYC.

The one thing I would change in all magazines is the front cover. They all resemble tabloids. Why not have a chosen, proper, color picture of a racing car during a grand prix for example each time? Both Autosport and Motorsport used to be that way years ago.

And while Peter Windsor's adoration of Hamilton is irksome because it is pathetic - similar to that which is now underway over Obama in the US by the leftists [is it coincidence that they are both considered black people?] - his writing in the magazine is definitely better, or so itseems, since Bishop [could never stand him] left.




And while Peter Windsor's adoration of Hamilton is irksome because it is pathetic - similar to that which is now underway over Obama in the US by the leftists [is it coincidence that they are both considered black people?]

Theoretically it is correct what he said, and of course I suspect Walker has joined the besotted view that the Brits have of Hamilton - no small measure because of white guilt and that Lewis is termed a "black driver" Nothing like bit of political correctness....

Of course Massa is only a Brazilian and Hamilton is a colored Briton who has become part of the travelling celebrity show, how politically correct and "wonderful" for f1. A "black" world champion instead of the best driveer bing the world champion.

I placed this poll because I cannot take any longer, since HAM started in f1, Windsors' comments that fawn over "Daddy Hamilton" and his wimpy son in the pre-race show and comments during a race and after. Wimpy because he whimped of his fitness challenge to Jenson Button - daddy was asked to make the withdrawal.

I am not at all a HAM supporter and will never be. But to consider that KOV is even ABLE to race HAM is a big leap.

The only reason anyone other than ALO will win the drivers title is if the Renault has problems - yes ALO is that much a superior driver to the rest and truly it is a pity.

Hamilton did not win the most races, has scored fewer second places than Massa and showed just how out of his depth he is when under pressure, and Massa equalled his pole position score.

This is the world champion? When a driver from another team suddenly has to pull over without a fight and give it to you?

I do not think so.

Hamilton may be called 2008 world champion officially, but he knows who the true champion is as does everyone this year, and his name is Felipe Massa.

What a pity.

The greatest "gift" that dear wobbly Lewis had was that Alonso did not have the Renault he had during the last quarter of the season from the start in Adelaide.

Furthermore, Hamilton almost lost the title in Brazil because he drove like a midfield driver and DOES have a glass jaw when it comes to having to defend under pressure.

Hamilton is not the issue over the points, it is that the driver that peformed the best in 2008 did not win the title and his name is Massa.

It is high time that this problem is solved. Surely somewhere there is a math genius able to calculate a formula that will generate a champion that has actually performed the best that year.............."


Difficult to take some people seriously OR consider their opinions relevant when all the spew about is hate for driver they have only seen on TV.

#246 dank

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Posted 29 January 2009 - 08:28

Feel the need to say that this month's issue is actually quite good. Shocka! :lol:

Seriously though, there seems to be a good mixture of old and contemporary F1 features in the latest issue and for me if F1 Racing continued to keep up to this standard I wouldn't hesitate to continue purchasing it.

#247 bradleyl

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Posted 29 January 2009 - 08:57

Thanks for the positive feedback dank, and glad you enjoyed this month's issue.

#248 Snap Matt

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Posted 29 January 2009 - 09:04

I would agree that this month's issue of F1 Racing was pretty good... probably the best in many months, but it was the historic features that stood out for me. The Heidfeld interview made me chuckle as I can't think of any other time I've read an interview with him in his ten year career, supporting the Mr Invisible claim. There was one article I particularly didn't like, which was the financial one, written by Edward Gorman... it really came across as a cut and paste from a daily newspaper article - which I believe is his day-job.

#249 dank

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Posted 29 January 2009 - 09:07

Actually I would agree with the above. The only small let down was the credit crunch article, which seemed as though it was rushed at the last minute? The layout was pretty lacking as well, but that for me was the only small blemish this month.

#250 Will

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Posted 29 January 2009 - 10:04

Originally posted by jesee




And while Peter Windsor's adoration of Hamilton is irksome because it is pathetic - similar to that which is now underway over Obama in the US by the leftists [is it coincidence that they are both considered black people?]

Theoretically it is correct what he said, and of course I suspect Walker has joined the besotted view that the Brits have of Hamilton - no small measure because of white guilt and that Lewis is termed a "black driver" Nothing like bit of political correctness....

Of course Massa is only a Brazilian and Hamilton is a colored Briton who has become part of the travelling celebrity show, how politically correct and "wonderful" for f1. A "black" world champion instead of the best driveer bing the world champion.

I placed this poll because I cannot take any longer, since HAM started in f1, Windsors' comments that fawn over "Daddy Hamilton" and his wimpy son in the pre-race show and comments during a race and after. Wimpy because he whimped of his fitness challenge to Jenson Button - daddy was asked to make the withdrawal.

I am not at all a HAM supporter and will never be. But to consider that KOV is even ABLE to race HAM is a big leap.

The only reason anyone other than ALO will win the drivers title is if the Renault has problems - yes ALO is that much a superior driver to the rest and truly it is a pity.

Hamilton did not win the most races, has scored fewer second places than Massa and showed just how out of his depth he is when under pressure, and Massa equalled his pole position score.

This is the world champion? When a driver from another team suddenly has to pull over without a fight and give it to you?

I do not think so.

Hamilton may be called 2008 world champion officially, but he knows who the true champion is as does everyone this year, and his name is Felipe Massa.

What a pity.

The greatest "gift" that dear wobbly Lewis had was that Alonso did not have the Renault he had during the last quarter of the season from the start in Adelaide.

Furthermore, Hamilton almost lost the title in Brazil because he drove like a midfield driver and DOES have a glass jaw when it comes to having to defend under pressure.

Hamilton is not the issue over the points, it is that the driver that peformed the best in 2008 did not win the title and his name is Massa.

It is high time that this problem is solved. Surely somewhere there is a math genius able to calculate a formula that will generate a champion that has actually performed the best that year.............."


Difficult to take some people seriously OR consider their opinions relevant when all the spew about is hate for driver they have only seen on TV.


What a bitter post. How would you rate Massa's gift in Spa then?